For you folks with an interest in Elgin.
Clarence Tinker, an Osage born in the Osage Nation, received part of his education at the Elgin public school.
He became the first American Indian to hold the rank of major general in the United States armed forces.
General Tinker was also the first American general to die in World War II.
His LB-30 Liberator crashed into the sea and his body was never found.
Tinker Air Force Base, Oklahoma, received its name in his honor.
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Has anyone ever done any research on the history of pre-Howard county, specifically during the time the Osages had treaty title to the area. I've always wanted to go to Pawhuska and make inquiries and maybe do some research at their tribal headquarters. I'm sure that the Osages, and other tribes that passed through on hunting migrations or relocations, had place names for geographic features in Elk and Chautauqua Counties.
Anyone have any info to share here?
Good question.
I have a few books with general information about the Osage, but I do not know that I have ever come across any Osage names for local features.
Be interesting if Marcia, or anyone else, has anything.
Here is some general information I have come across concerning the Osage:
I am of the opinion there was Osage presence in Elk County but in the overall scheme of things, it was minimal.
There is one person I have read of being killed by the Osage in what became Elk County. He was killed by a poison arrow.
Another was killed in what became Chautauqua County when he tried retrieving some horses the Osage stole from him. The white guy apparently had not paid his tribal taxes.
An Osage burial consisted of laying their dead in a natural ground depression and then stacking several layers of rocks over the body. A Swedish immigrant was building a stone house in what was to become Elk County. He used rocks from a pile near his house and eventually came across a young Osage girl's body. The Osage received word he had desecrated her grave and they came calling. He showed them where he had reburied her body and placed rocks over the grave. They went away satisfied.
Sometimes, Osage would bury by placing the body in a hollow tree trunk or hollow fallen tree.
Supposedly, Elk River valley Osage scouts led General George Armstrong Custer to the Washita River in Oklahoma where he destroyed the Cheyenne village. Some of those same scouts were supposed to have been with him at or just prior to the Little Big Horn. The main enemies of the Osage were the Cheyenne and Arapahoe.
The last all Indian battle in Howard County [maybe the only one] took place along Cedar Creek near Cedar Vale. Arapahoe warriors followed an Osage hunting party from western Kansas after a buffalo hunt and attacked them at the creek. Some of the white women living in the area tried to help with the wounded but were told to "get lost" by the Osage. I am thinking the year was early 1870 but it might have been a year or two earlier. These white people were paying a tax to the Osage to live peacefully in that area.
The Osage did not live in Teepees but used Teepees as camping gear when they went to hunt in Western Kansas.
I have read of a village at the confluence of Elk River and Clear Creek near Elk Falls. The Osage believed that tornadoes would not hit them if they lived where two bodies of water came together. This village may well have been their only known presence in Elk County.
That village would be a clan village. There could have been two or more widely separated villages making up a clan and several clans making up a band and several bands making up the tribe, not to mention there were Little Osage and Big Osage, but their overall numbers were not large.
The Osage were not native to Kansas. In the overall scheme of things, they were not here long.
The US government moved them into Kanzas in 1808 from present day Missouri and Arkansas.
They were forced into Missouri and Arkansas from the Ohio River valley many years earlier by other warring tribes.
Under the 1808 treaty, they legally occupied almost one-half of present day Kansas.
When Kanzas became Indian Territory, they were reduced to a much smaller 250 mile by 50-mile area along the southern Kansas border to make way for a good many eastern U.S. tribes to the north. New York Indian tribes were slated to go in just north of present day Elk County. Even with their reduced reservation along the southern Kansas border, the Osage had a huge area. I recall something like 2.5 Osage per square mile or thereabouts.
When Indian Territory was reduced to Oklahoma, a twenty-mile tall strip off the top of the Osage reservation was called the Osage Trust Land. That land was the first to open in Howard (Elk County). The division line was Townships 29 and 30 south. The balance was called the Osage Diminished Reserve. There was also another portion to the east in Labette and Montgomery County called Osage Ceded Land.
The Diminished Reserve was legally taken away on July 15, 1870, when the Osage were moved to Indian
Territory. Even then, groups came back into Elk County. Some liked camping near Moline.
Osage Indians as a group took part in the American Civil War. Some fought for the south and some fought for the north.
Colonel Sam Donnelson of the Cofederate Army is burried in the Elgin Cemetery.
I am glad you brought that up.
I did not know Sam Donnelson was a Confederate, but that makes sense now.
His uncle was the 7th President of the United States: Old Hickory.
Donnelson was also Howard County's expensive county attorney, they paid him $1,000 per year.
He is my ancestor and I have done much research on the history of the Donnelsons. I did not know he was paid so much !! Wow.
The South Kansas Camp #2064 of the Sons of Confederate Veterans has a project of trying to locate, verify, and document all of the Confederate Veterans that are buried in Kansas. I hope you do not mind me asking, but do you have any documentation showing that this Samuel Donelson served the Confederate army, because if he did, he served for both sides. The 1895 Kansas census shows that he was a Captain in the 18th Indiana Infantry Co K, which goes along with the obit stating that he went to Indiana. Thank you.
While waiting for a twirldoggy reply:
Could there be two different men with similar names?
You have him as a Captain.
The February 7, 1874, Longton Weekly Ledger, among others, identifies him as Colonel Donelson.
The May 7, 1904, Topeka Capital, identifies him a few days after his death in Elgin as "Colonel Samuel Donelson, a find old Southern gentleman of distinguished ancestry and life."
I have also seen the Colonel's name in the 1870s newspapers as both Donelson and Donnelson.
I would think that the odds of two people with that similar of a name, both in Chautauqua County, would be unlikely however, I am only seeing the one Samuel Donelson in the 1895 Kansas census in Chautauqua County, and it states the Indiana unit in the military service. As I mentioned previously, the obit stated this person went to Indiana in 1850.
The obit calls him Colonel, then states in the body of the obit: In 1861 he raised a company and for eighteen months served in Missouri and Arkansas, being the captain. Ill health caused his resignation and he was offered a colonelcy but declined.
That parallels the service record for Captain Samuel Donelson...Samuel Donelson enlisted as a Captain in July 15 1861, commissioned in the Indiana 18th infantry Aug 16, 1861, and resigned Dec 1862
I have seen different spellings as well, both of yours, as well as Donalson.
The obit I am referencing is dated April 29, 1904 at http://www.ksgennet.org/ks/cq/obits/obitsd1.html#01711
Thanks for the information. I was going on the strong family stories about him being in the confederacy. Also his stone in the cemetery has no reference to Union servvice.
gcrebel,
How many confederate soldier burials have you folks been able to identify in Elk or Chautauqua?
Quote from: W. Gray on July 30, 2008, 01:02:21 PM
gcrebel,
How many confederate soldier burials have you folks been able to identify in Elk or Chautauqua?
W. Gray,
Right now, it looks like I have 7 Confederates in Chautauqua, and 16 in Elk County, but still have some of them I am looking for documentation, with possibly more Confederates to be found.
Quote from: twirldoggy on July 30, 2008, 11:58:16 AM
Thanks for the information. I was going on the strong family stories about him being in the confederacy. Also his stone in the cemetery has no reference to Union servvice.
You are welcome, but I sure hated to be the bearer of bad news. Out of curisoity, is the grave marked as a Confederate? With the obit stating him being born in Tennessee, and then heading up a company in Missouri and Arkansas, it may have just been assumed he was with the Confederate Army, but with Sam Donelson (or close family member) providing the information to the Kansas census taker that matches a service record, I think that would have to clinch it.
Can you provide these fellows names?
Quote from: W. Gray on July 31, 2008, 08:11:14 AM
Can you provide these fellows names?
Yes I can, but if you don't mind, I will create a new topic more fitting
Would be an interesting topic.
I started a new topic, Confederates buried in Kansas, under the Good Old Days. It may be better suited under genealogy or even obits, but will leave that decision up to the moderator :)
This addresses a query under topic Elgin Connection, asked by Marcia Moore: Is Sylvester Tinker (former Osage chief) related to General Clarence Tinker (of Tinker Air Force Base)?
Answer: Yes, as follows: They are double cousins--in varying degrees of cousin-hood. The double-cousin part comes from the fact that there were several Tinker-Revard marriages--two such marriages are involved here.
(A) They are first cousins once removed, on the Tinker side.
(B) They are second cousins once removed, on the Revard side.
If you want more detail, it's complicated. Hope you like kinship terms and diagrams... Details follow, if you want it (possibly more than you ever want to know):
(A) They are first cousins once removed, on the Tinker side.
--Sylvester's paternal grandfather (William Tinker) was half-brother to Clarence's father (George Edward Tinker). The half-brothers had the same father (George Tinker), but different mothers.
--William's son Frank Tinker was Sylvester's father. Frank and Clarence, sons of half-brothers, were first cousins on the Tinker side.
--This means that Frank's son Sylvester is Clarence's first cousin once removed (on the Tinker side).
(B) They are second cousins once removed, on the Revard side.
--Sylvester was born of the marriage of Frank Tinker and Mary Louise Revard.
--Clarence Tinker's grandmother was the great-aunt of Mary Louise Revard.
The detail for this is:
--Clarence's father was one of those two ancestral half-brothers, George Edward Tinker--the son of George Tinker by his third wife, Genevieve (Jane) Revard.
--Genevieve Revard was thus Clarence Tinker's grandmother.
--Genevieve Revard's brother, Joseph Revard, was the grandfather of Mary Louise Revard (Sylvester's mother).
--Their Revard grandparents being siblings, Clarence Tinker and Mary Louise Revard were 2nd cousins (on the Revard side).
--This means that Mary Louise's son Sylvester is Clarence's 2nd cousin once removed (on the Revard side).
Hope this sorts out for you. I know some of this info because of family talk (I'm Clarence Tinker's great niece), and know other info from Louis Burns's book Turn of the Wheel (a genealogy of the Burns and Tinker families). I joined this forum just to answer that query, which I saw in a web search.
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Marcia, Thanks for your note. I just temporarily joined the forum to provide this info to you.
From the August 2, 1872, Longton Weekly Ledger.
"ELGIN.—This beautiful little town is situated on Big Caney where it enters the Indian territory. It is surrounded by a rich and beautiful country filled with intelligent people. Elgin is a thriving town and what makes the place the more worthy of notice just now it is being pushed by its friends for county seat. This is a good idea, we favor the plan; Elgin is so easy of access from all parts of the country and is located so near the centre of the county that no one can possibly object to the town owing to its geographical position. Another reason why Elgin would make a proper county seat is the fact that it is the home of our worthy County Attorney, and as every rooster acts more bravely when taken upon his own dung hill, doubtless he would be enabled to hurl his anathemas against the wrong-doers of the county with greater force than ever. Hurrah for Elgin."
A few towns in Howard County were aiming to unseat the remote Peru as the county seat in September 1872. The editor is being sarcastic in that Elgin was further way from most county settlers than Peru was. One reason for the backhand against the $1,000 a year Col Sam Donelson, the county attorney, was that he very seldom came to the county seat, letting his hired assistant work out the county's legal problems.
Elgin would never run for the county seat and Peru was not unseated in the 1872 election.
Hi,
I'm a grandaughter of Joseph Revelette, I am interested in the family history. Any info would be greatly appreciated.
Quote from: Marcia Moore on July 16, 2008, 09:16:59 AM
South of Elgin a couple or more miles is a V in the road where you can go south, down towards the Revelette Ranch or you can go east, towards Boulanger. That hill at the T is called Tinker Hill.
Wonder if Sylvester Tinker, the Chief of the Osages 25-30 years ago, was related to Clarence Tinker. Chief Tinker and his wife, Alice, were real good friends of my grandad and my parents. They lived in Pawhuska.
A wonderful source for Osage History is available on the "Osage Nation" website.
read you topic and found them interestring. Question? Does anyone know the history of Artillery Mound, just north of Boulanger, Ok.
Check out an article in a 1972 edition of the Sedan Times-Star
http://files.usgwarchives.net/ok/nations/osage/newspapers/blngrhst.txt
or try
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php?topic=214219.0;wap2
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http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/ok_indian_territory_1884.jpg
Blow the map up and look closely just SE of Elgin - It reads "Proposed New Post 1867"
It also shows a point about 30 west of Caldwell with the same discription.
I followed your instructions on the map. Can you elaborate any more on the topic?
Thank you!
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Here's an interesting "Tinker" twist:
General Hewitt went to Europe in January 1944 to become supply officer of the 41st Combat Bomb Wing, and in November of 1944 was appointed executive officer. Two months later he became chief of the Maintenance Division of the Eighth Air Force Service Command there and assumed command of the 44th Air Depot Group in the European Theater in November 1945. The following July he became chief of the Maintenance Division at Tinker Field, Okla.; was appointed deputy for maintenance in January 1947; and in June 1948 was named director of maintenance at Tinker.
This is coming from Osage Joe Revelette's grandaughter, Major General A.G. Hewitt was my Dad's father.
The map I posted, was the earliest of many maps I found that show that "Proposed New Post 1867." The exact same map shows up under various other publishers names until at least 1895.
As for why that location would have been considered for a military post, I can't find any information on the topic online.
My speculative opinion would be that since this is the immediate post-Civil War time period, a time of many treaties with the Cherokees and Osages in which they had to make concessions because parts of their respective tribes fought under Confederate flags, that maybe the Army wanted a post there to control or prevent travel by the Osages from their new home (Osage Reservation) back into their former hunting grounds (the middle and western parts of the Osage Diminished Reserve, which they had just or were about to relinquished). The Big Caney Valley would have made a logical route northwest and then due north to intersect the Black Dog Trail, and other indian trails running east-west across what are now Chautauqua, Elk and Cowley counties.
Marica
i would really be interested in reading theinformationyou have gathered on the Boulanger area.
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Found another map, Section of the Map of the States of Kansas and Texas and Indian Territory, with parts of the Territories of Colorado and New Mexico From the most recent official surveys and explorations and under authentic information. 1867 , published by the Government Printing Office:
http://contentdm.baylor.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/19wor&CISOPTR=882&CISOBOX=1&REC=1
March 06, 2013 The above link is dead. This is the new link to the map:
http://digitalcollections.baylor.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/tx-wotr/id/1170/rec/1 (http://digitalcollections.baylor.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/tx-wotr/id/1170/rec/1)
It has the proposed new post, trails all over what is now Osage County, OK and a route taken by a Lt. Col. Morrison that approximates the Cherokee Trail from the main Santa Fe Trail southeast to the Kansas Line, intersecting what we commonly call the Black Dog Trail.
The viewer allows high zoom levels with very good sharpening at each level.
Marcia,
In your research of the area and conversations with residents has the story of Opothleyahola's flight to the north with his loyal (Union) Creek Indians (and other refugees) come up, with or without reference to Artillery Mound? Fleeing from their defeat near Skiatook on Dec 26, 1861 they traveled to Fort Row near present day Coyville, with the first groups (numbering around 2,000) beginning to arrive the middle of January, 1862. Eventually from eight to ten thousand loyal refrugees would arrive in the area.
Little has been written about the route taken (that is available online anyway) but I wonder if they may have traveled through the area we have been discussing then north and east across Chautauqua, and possibly a portion of Elk, counties on their way to northern Wilson County.
Your thoughts?
I think there is a marker for this trail south of Caney; it seems to me that I have seen others also. Anybody?
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Another open question:
Does anyone know anything about the Lt. Col. Morrison whose route through present MG, CQ, EK, and BU counties is drawn and labeled on the 1867 map referenced in reply 36 and linked below:
http://contentdm.baylor.edu/19wor/19wor_atlas_v2_119_01/
I can't find anything about him or his travels on the web.
Anyone?
All you knowledgable on Elgin-
I'm needing assistance in finding out about the Wilderness Trail signs placed up around Elgin during the 1961 Kansas Centennial.
Most of them have vanished throughout the last 50 years. Those that have survived are in such a poor state (rusty or shot up by hunters) THAT THEY ARE UNREADBLE.
iF ANYONE HAS INFORMATION PLEASE NOTIFY ME.
I'm currently trying to translate the New Elgin sign that was located west of Elgin about 2 miles.
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