Koppel: People's Republic of Capitalism is a very interesting program that started on the Discovery Channel last night and will continue for three more nights.
Part of the program concerned a Chinese couple buying an upscale American sofa.
They were happy to have the American made sofa in addition to an American made Whirlpool refrigerator they had just purchased. They expected to hand both down to their children.
The sofa was delivered by a Chinese delivery company sending five men in uniforms and white gloves to deliver the one sofa.
The sofa came from a factory in North Carolina.
Cotton from a US cotton processor was sold to China.
Fabrics were then made from that cotton and shipped back across the Pacific to the sofa factory in North Carolina.
Upscale wood trim for the sofa was lathed in China and sent to the same factory.
The sofa was designed and put together by the North Carolina factory and shipped to China, where the couple purchased it from an Ethan Allen store in Chongging, a city of 13 million folks.
The couple paid $2,000 for the sofa.
The point of this segment was that the couple could now afford this type of furniture because they were part of the new capitalism in China.
Another story involved the closing of a Briggs and Stratton engine factory in Rolla Missouri.
The engines are now made in China and shipped back to the US and sell cheaper than they did before.
Most of the plywood we purchase in the United States is processed on ships. The Chinese buy the lumber from Americans, take it a couple hundred miles off shore, make it into plywood then bring it back here and sell it.
Isn't that stupid?
Yup, it sure is!
When I was a kid, people were complaining that 4 x 8 sheets of plywood was a cheaply made sheathing product and would never ever replace the board-by-board 1 x 12 diagonal sheathing construction of the time.
Turned out that for sheathing it was stronger than board-by-board, lighter, cheaper, and allowed for faster construction.
Nowadays most projects cannot afford plywood going instead for the manmade by product and glue stuff.
At any rate, people want something, including plywood, for the least possible cost whether it is made in the U.S., on a ship in international waters, or in the heart of China.
The Chinese are our biggest suppliers because they work for 1/30th of the wage that our people do, they don't have labor unions to force the wages higher and higher. The result of demand for cheaper plywood, clothing, furniture and almost everything else in our society is higher unemployment and higher fuel costs, China and India now buy up all of the excess cargoes of oil everyday.
Frank
It is very interesting to think of the cotton being produced in the US, then shipped to China. Fabric then being shpped tp the US. It speaks of a larger issue that experts at producing certain items exist iaround the world and that certain economic factors generate the shipping off to far away places. Another rtelated issue is the development of Chinese culture and the wealth of some in that culture that they want good pieces of American goods and that they want a life that is similar to ours.
Stop the world!
I want off!!
The manager operating the cotton processing plant said that his company no longer had an American market.
His company processes and presses cotton into huge bales.
All of the company's cotton bales are shipped overseas.
until we start producin our own again it's not gonna get any better. I've never belonged to a union but the original idea behind them was good. You want to pay me chinese wages charge me chinese prices.
Ironically, Myrna had 2 little pieces of furniture delivered this afternoon and the store owner delivered them. Both items said made in China, I asked him about it and he said they weren't really made in China, the Lumber for much of the furniture comes from Washington state, it is cut into usable furniture wood, shipped to chinese ships anchored outside international waters and made out there then brought ashore. By doing this the Chinese can use their own people, avoid U.S. wage and hour laws, and U.S. Taxes. The man was even more interesting as he had been a Combat Officer in Afghanistan.
Frank
I saw a report on the television news that said production of certain items was coming back to the US because of high shipping costs. But if the Chinese are producing goods off shore that means they have addressed this to a certain extent and have developed way to profit from this situation.
Or are avoiding EPA regulations.
I was listening to the MSNBC commentators last evening. They referred to China as the " economic engine of the world ". I am wondering why this state of affairs has not received more media attention. Ted Koppel's program is the first in depth look that I am aware of.
The United States has been instrumental in making China and India the fastest growing Economies in the world and the fastest growing consumers of oil in the world. They also have massive amounts of our dollars whish contributes even more to the rising cost of energy for the U.S.
This is long but it's got some info in it I thought you all would like to see. It's from MSN money
Is America in a permanent decline?
The dollar is plunging. Detroit's car dominance is history. London claims to be outfinancing Wall Street. So maybe it's time to ask whether the era of US dominance is over for good.
By Ernest Beck, MSN Money
Forbes magazine's annual list of the world's richest people is eagerly anticipated as a barometer of wealth and power. And each year the mighty U.S., whose economy is often described as the envy of the world, has dominated the rankings.
Until now, that is.
In its most recent survey, the Forbes billionaire list changed dramatically: The United States made only four appearances in the top 20, compared with 10 names two years ago. India, by contrast, posted an astonishing four in the top 10, twice as many as the U.S. While America still leads the overall list, Russia, the new nation of raging capitalism, ranked second. Its 87 billionaires pushed aside Germany, the former runner-up. Is Wall Street's dominance over?
Many Americans are still rich, of course; many more are comfortably middle class. And the economy, though weak, is nowhere near collapse. But the shift in the billionaire allotment reflects broader trends. While globalization is indeed producing fabulous wealth in countries that were once considered basket cases, many are asking whether the U.S. is losing its competitive edge and surrendering its long-held leadership positions in business, finance and innovation to foreign competitors.
"The U.S. was always No. 1 and assumed it would be No. 1 and acted accordingly," says Doug Rediker, a former investment banker and a co-director of the Global Strategic Finance Initiative at the New America Foundation, a Washington, D.C., think tank. "Now other nations are catching up. There are competitors fighting for market share in every industry. The U.S. is under pressure."
Consider the sinking value of the dollar: The greenback is still the world's reserve currency, but its continuing erosion carries a symbolic value, telling the world that the U.S. doesn't have its financial house in order. At home, that means higher prices for food and fuel; it also means more-expensive vacations for Americans traveling abroad.
Talk Back: Do you think America is locked into decline?
The incredible shrinking dollar has also made America a great place for Europeans -- wielding their strong euros and pounds -- to go on cheap shopping sprees, swamping our department stores and designer boutiques to pick up bargains. The U.S., once an elite shopping destination, is becoming their giant outlet mall. Foreign tourists on shopping sprees
And what about Detroit's once-vaunted role as an auto industry leader? That has been diminished by more-nimble global competitors. Companies such as Japan's Toyota are threatening the once-indomitable General Motors with more-stylish design and advanced engineering. While GM was turning out gas-guzzling
SUVs and Hummers, Toyota got on the green bandwagon early with hybrids and other fuel-efficient cars, and is now reaping the rewards as gas prices soar. Meanwhile, Wall Street faces rivals in cities such as London, which is attracting so many international banks and companies to its booming stock and capital markets that it now claims to be the new center for global business and finance -- a title disputed, of course, by New York City boosters.
Still, argues Michael Charlton, the chief executive of Think London, the city's official foreign-direct-investment agency, "It is a valid claim that London is the world financial capital because its status is based on its international credentials and because we trade so successfully internationally." Is London the next global capital?
Even New York's pre-eminent position as the center of the booming global art market is being challenged -- again by London, a city that once shunned contemporary art. Nowadays, London's galleries and auction houses are crowded with new collectors, including many newly rich Russians, clamoring for the work of blue-chip artists.
Taken together, some say, the evidence suggests the U.S. might be heading into a twilight phase -- one in which it is ceding to other nations its usual claim to superlatives and leadership as well as its adventurous, cutting-edge spirit. A spate of recent books has explored this development, including Newsweek editor Fareed Zakaria's "The Post-American World." Among the examples he cites: The world's tallest building is in Taipei, Taiwan; the largest publicly traded company is in China; India will soon have the world's biggest oil refinery; and Macau has overtaken Las Vegas in gambling revenue. Map: Global markets on the rise
The reality is a bit more complex, but we do now live in a multipolar world, and we had better get used to it. Forget the superpower rivalry between the U.S. and the former Soviet Union, as well as the brief time in which the U.S. was the only superpower. Forget the time when there was no Airbus, only Boeing and Lockheed and McDonnell Douglas.
Today the centers of power, finance and trade have realigned into three heavyweight blocks: the U.S., the European Union and Asia, with the last dominated by China and India, boasting massive populations and rapidly developing economies. Each group is looking out for its own interests and using its might to influence economic policy and world affairs.
So where does that leave the U.S.?
Rediker, of the New America Foundation, says the U.S. is still a major player in the global economy and isn't likely to become a second-tier nation anytime soon. But, he adds, it's time to recognize that "it's also not the only player, and as such, can't dictate terms to the
rest of the world."
In the short term, that shift in thinking might not cut prices at the pump or in grocery stores, or restore strength in the dollar. But it could become part of a wider strategy on how the U.S. can deal with the world's evolving economic structure and encourage business leaders to adopt a broader, bolder outlook to remain competitive in the global marketplace.
Despite the challenges and gloomy outlook fostered by the credit crunch and subprime mortgage mess, many believe the U.S. economy remains both formidable and resilient, with deep reserves of talent, entrepreneurship and continuing investment in research and development.
Even General Motors is trying to change: It has vowed to design an electric car and have it on the road by 2010.
"We should not underestimate the ability of the U.S. economy to transform itself," says Mauro Guillen, a professor of international management at The Wharton School in Philadelphia. "It has one of the most flexible economies and continues to be a magnet for the best and the brightest." Although the nation is at a crossroads in many respects, Guillen adds, "The U.S. will weather the storm."
Very good article Pam, thanks for posting it!!
It brings up a very core problem that we have as a nation. We don't make anything anymore. We have went from a production based nation to a consumption based nation in roughly 25 yrs.
The optimist in me says hang in there, we have some of the brightest minds in the world and will persevere.
The pessimist in me sees the urban high school dropout rate and wonders what the next generation will do to either stay on top or get back to the top.
Oh I know..... and there you have the root of the problem.....if you can't or won't do for yourself, you're gonna have to pay out the nose for somebody else to do it for ya.
I seriously don't know what people are gonna do.
Last night's program was called Maoism to Meism.
The Chinese like anything foreign.
The most popular car for the elite in China is the traditional 4-door Buick--black preferred.
GM sells more Buicks in China than they do in the U.S.
Gallup Poll has been conducting consumer research in China since 1994.
In Chongqing drugs and women are okay (Police look the other way) as long as it is discrete.
In the red light district, there are storefront brothels disguised as clubs.
There are gay clubs but no gay parades.
An American architect is working on a 30,000,000 square foot office-building complex costing $50 billion.
Religion is also tolerated and there are even Catholic churches.
The owner of the storefront clubs attends Bible study each Tuesday night.
Wal Mart is considered upscale for most of the Chinese population.
Good article Pam, hopefully, we can eventually overcome some of the problems but, the world is changing and China and India are Giants to reckon with.
Frank
Waldo, a few weeks back I was getting some mulch at Walmart and a young man there was loading it for me. He was saying everything they had was made in China, and I said "don't you know that Walmart owns China", his comment was "really that is why we sell so much stuff made in China".
Frank
We are seriously gonna have to find a way to get our independance back. Yeah the global economy is the future but the way we been goin about it is also makin it our downfall. It's bassackwards now and it doesn't matter which president or congress was responsible for it, it's been done and now it has to be undone. But that's just my opinion :P
many of you know this, but Lewis, his dad and I, for many years, were in the logging business. All the logs were sold to logging yards within 150 miles of here, depending on what kind of logs (oak, walnut, etc.) they were. Most of them were then shipped to China. I'm here to tell you, that if you took a walnut log with a "croch" in it to market, you were docked drastically on the price. BUT when that same log came back here as a shotgun stock, with all that beautiful burling in it, you paid a premium over a straight grain stock. Now, want to know why we got out of the logging business? The man that done all the work wasn't making the money. Matter of fact, our pay declined with each load, just like things are now. We quit in the early 80's.
Pam, I don't think anyone can or will disagree with what you say. The problem remains getting the selfish politicians to do what is best for America instead of what is best to get them elected and on the Congressional Payroll with all of its big benefits. Hopefully, that good old American "TRUE GRIT, INGENUITY AND HARD WORK" will help us through this. My greatest concern is the dramatic increase that I see in the crime rate as money gets tighter and that problem is going to get much worse.
That's part of the bassackwards part of it. There have been a lot of shows comin on on like the history channel and dicovery etc. about workin people. Loggers, truckdrivers, roughnecks, fishermen.... The serious workin man has been way underappreciated for a long time in my opinion but they are what built this country to what it used to be and could be again. only problem is our country has turned into a place where the less physical work you do the more money you get paid for doin it, as a result our country has become a place of way too many chiefs and not near enough indians if you get my drift, and the indians that are left don't get near the respect they deserve. People look at manual workers like they are doin it cause they are too stupid to do anything else.
Speakin from experience, most of them are doin it because they love it. Being stuck inside literally suffocates em. It takes more brains than people think to do the physical part of building a house or a bridge, pourin cement isn't as simple as just pourin it in a hole. There is a LOT of knowledge involved in fellin trees or workin a rig. :-[ uh guess I'll get off my soapbox now.....
Oh yeah Frank it's gonna get rough if somthin don't give... I was typin at the same time as you :P
Last night's episode had to do with automobiles.
China is putting 25,000 new cars a day on the road--all manufactured in China and most in Chongqing, the Detroit of the country.
9,000,000 cars will be put on the road this year.
Nine out of ten car buyers in China pay cash.
The black Buicks that are so popular with the wealthy are manufactured by GM in China.
The head of the Ford operation in China expects that eventually all Big Three cars will be manufactured in China and shipped to the U.S. for sale.
Liberty Mutual insurance sells insurance to Chinese. There is no deductible.
There are 400 traffic accidents a day in Chongqing
Accident responsibility is decided on the spot by the responding police officer.
Insurance adjusters pay based on the police officer's decision.
Waldo, everything in your post points to higher energy cost for the U.S., the increased demand by the Chinese as they add 9 Million Automobiles a year, by the way that is an increase of almost 2 million automobiles in the past two years. The big negative for the U.S. is the ever increasing trade deficit that continues to drive the dollar lower and lower which in turn makes the U.S. pay more dollars for everything we buy. Karl Marx is smiling from his tomb as he watches our leaders take us deeper and deeper into Socialism and destroy Democracy, Capitalism and the great American way. We introduced and pushed Democracy and Capitalism to the Chinese, Russia, Vietnam and other countries, they have an industrial revolution that is mushrooming from it and and we are sinking from growing socialism and the destruction of our industries and jobs. Unless big changes are made the future looks bleak. Our current Congress wants to tax away the incentives for investment and that can only do more to destroy our system, and drive more investment overseas.
Frank
Waldo, I think I had posted this once before.
Chinese Automobile production by year Year Production (in million units):
1992 1.0
1999 1.2
2000 2.07
2001 2.33
2002 3.25
2003 4.44
2004 5.07
2005 5.71
2006 7.28
2007 8.88
The same series of reports on Capitalism in India would really be an eye opener, when you see how their jobs, economy and energy consumption is booming as well.
The first Chinese brand car will be imported into the U.S. next year.
The brand name was mentioned but I cannot recall.
It is supposed to be positioned at a most reasonable price.
The Chinese may pull a few "Yugos" at first but eventually they will be a force to be reckoned with.
Waldo, that is really disappointintg, we are just letting the Chinese bury us deeper and deeper. The main reason for the high cost of oil is the Chinese, India and Japan buying up all of the cargoes with money they make from exports to the US, that coupled with the huge trade deficit we have with the Chinese and the rest of the world continues to drive the dollar lower and lower. People blame the oil companies that have absolutely no control over the world price of oil in addition many want to put a windfall profit tax on the oil industry, which in effect says pay our oil companies less for their oil and then demand they spend more to get us out of this mess. This is going to get much worse and we are doing nothing but making it worse, and pushing the solutions further and further out.
Here's a radical idea....... don't buy the stuff, it won't be imported if it won't sell....put a lid on oil futures speculation.......why should the head of an oil company make between 15 to 21,000,000 dollars a year salary plus millions in unvested performance stock and still say they are strapped, give me a break. It's all a game........and the game pieces are you and me and our families.
If somebody was really interested in a viable alternative energy they would just do it whether it was gonna make them rich or not. Ethanol is NOT the wonder answer to all our problems, neither is Bushs pet switchgrass project.
It's time for the people to start usin their power which constitutes their money to get things back on the right track. The top guys ain't gonna do squat, y'know why? Cause they are gettin richer than God off this mess that's why. If you can't buy American, buy it at a garage sale, at least your money is makin a statement even if the original person didn't. So what if it's a gas hog, if it was built in detroit of american parts buy it.So what if it costs more, save till you can by it if it says made in america.
That's the only thing that's gonna clean up this mess, not a bunch of settin on capitol hill blah blah blahin till it's too late and there isn't anything left to save.
and gas at P&J's went to $4.14.9 today. :P
The last episode was called "It's the Economy, Stupid."
The Chinese are building the largest bridge in the world at a cost of $500m. The most expensive labor employed is $11 per hour.
As Ted Koppel says, "When labor is cheap, growth can be breathtaking."
Three hundred million people in China were brought out of poverty in less than one generation. That is more people than are in the U.S.
The price of gasoline is subsidized by the Chinese government. The price per gallon was not mentioned.
Nevertheless, the program mainly centered on the downside of China's buildup--pollution and corruption.
Seventy-five percent of China's energy comes from coal.
China has the worst mining safety record in the world.
One-hundred times as many workers were killed in mines as were killed in U.S. mines for most recent year recorded--4,700 vs 47.
Twenty-four thousand corrupt government officials were put behind bars in 2006.
China punishes government officials for corruption but does not bring charges against capitalist company officials who generate the bribes.
Chinese government believes it is the capitalist system, which is bringing prosperity to the country and will not bother these folks on that basis, alone.
Quote from: Mom70x7 on July 12, 2008, 10:20:57 PM
and gas at P&J's went to $4.14.9 today. :P
they done that Thursday nite about 10:30 as we were coming back into town. Today Tripco was $3.99