This just makes me sick. >:(
What is happening to our nation ??? :'( :'(
http://www.legion.org/vision/currentevents/2008/04/students_trample_on_old_glory.html
??? this was called an "Art" experiment.
I know Flo.. sickening isn't it.
Only those who are ignorant to what sacrificing for your country means would do or allow such a thing in the name of "free speech". American warriors shed a tear when the ignorant desecrate the very symbol they have pledged their life to when it is trampled or burned or spit upon.
Freedom is not free and there are some who will never understand the meaning of blood shed on a battlefield or the tear shed on a field of stars surrounded by blue supported by stripes of red and white.
I cannot express how angry this particular show of disrespect makes me.
When I think that Americans struggled, while mortally wounded, to prevent this symbol of our country from even touching the ground during wars fought to protect the 1A and all of our rights, I am enraged.
I know it's just a symbol...but it isn't what is happening to the symbol that angers me, but rather, the disrespect show to all those who fought and died to defend what that symbol stands for.
And this is the future generation of our country?
Shocking!
(http://static.flickr.com/61/206027163_5d2942bdf4.jpg)
Have you ever noticed the honor guard pays meticulous attention to correctly folding the United States of America Flag 13 times? You probably thought it was to symbolize the original 13 colonies, but we learn something new every day!
The 1st fold of the flag is a symbol of life.
The 2nd fold is a symbol of the belief in eternal life.
The 3rd fold is made in honor and remembrance of the veterans departing the ranks who gave a portion of their lives for the defense of the country to attain peace throughout the world.
The 4th fold represents the weaker nature, for as American citizens trusting in God, it is to Him we turn in times of peace as well as in time of war for His divine guidance
The 5th fold is a tribute to the country, for in the words of Stephen Decatur, 'Our Country, in dealing with other countries, may she always be right; but it is still our country, right or wrong.'
The 6th fold is for where people's hearts lie. It is with their heart that They pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States Of America , and the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all.
The 7th fold is a tribute to its Armed Forces, for it is through the Armed Forces that they protect their country and their flag against all her enemies, whether they be found within or without the boundaries of their republic.
The 8th fold is a tribute to the one who entered into the valley of the shadow of death, that we might see the light of day.
The 9th fold is a tribute to womanhood, and Mothers. For it has been through their faith, their love, loyalty and devotion that the character of the men and women who have made this country great has been molded.
The 10th fold is a tribute to the father, for he, too, has given his sons and daughters for the defense of their country since they were first born.
The 11th fold represents the lower portion of the seal of King David and King Solomon and glorifies in the Hebrews eyes, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
The 12th fold represents an emblem of eternity and glorifies, in the Christians eyes, God the Father, the Son and Holy Spirit.
The 13th fold, or when the flag is completely folded, the stars are uppermost reminding them of their nations motto, 'In God We Trust.'
After the flag is completely folded and tucked in, it takes on the appearance of a cocked hat, ever reminding us of the soldiers who served under General George Washington, and the Sailors and Marines who served under Captain John Paul Jones, who were followed by their comrades and shipmates in the Armed Forces of the United States, preserving for them the rights, privileges and freedoms they enjoy today.
There are some traditions and ways of doing things that have deep meaning. In the future, you'll see flags folded and now you will know why.
This is our symbol of ' Liberty and Freedom.'
MAYBE THE SUPREME COURT SHOULD READ THIS EXPLANATION BEFORE THEY RENDER THEIR DECISION ON THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.
IN THE MEANTIME, MAY GOD PROTECT US ALWAYS.
ONE NATION, UNDER GOD, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL.
How sad. Breaks my heart to realize there are people this uncaring. I must give thanks to my mother and father for instilling in me the respect and honor our flag deserves.
Teresa your picture of the folded flag is not properly folded. When properly folded a US Flag should be a triangle with only blues and stars showing. I searched the internet to get you a proper picture but am having trouble finding a worthy picture. Since my days as a Boy Scout I have always been a fan of proper flag etiquette. Thanks for posting the meaning of the number of folds in the flag.
David
http://www.usflag.org/foldflag.html
*When the flag is completely folded, only a triangular blue field of stars should be visible.*
Isn't that what is visible? Maybe from the angle of the camera you can see the sides?
I looked also and found this one that I have on several sites. but couldn't find other ones.
I think if we looked from the top down on the flag shown we would only see the stars .
I will keep looking for a better picture.
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It is difficult to properly fold the flag and get it right.
There is supposed to a small part left over which is tucked into the base fold leaving only the blue field showing all around.
I have only seen strac honor guards get it right and that was because they spent all their time practicing.
I found one... I had to do some fancy work on it..
but...
Is this better? :)
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj216/marshalette/flag.jpg)
I have never been able to fold a flag other than what you show.
The red and white is not supposed to show but it looks okay to me and I doubt if anyone would complain.
I would wager that most folded flags look like that.
Whew~ (http://www.rightnation.us/forums/style_emoticons/default/heat-2.gif)
can I now be excused to go play with my guns?
Purty Please?
(http://www.rightnation.us/forums/style_emoticons/default/pray.gif)
As far as I know, there is no other country in the world that folds their flag the way we do.
Some of the American Legion men at Severy could fold the flag so that nothing but blue and stars was visible no matter how you looked at it. And it seems to me that the men at Winfield folded my uncle's flag correctly, too. I'll bet our own Legion men can do it.
when correctly folded the white edging should be left which is what is brought up and tucked in under the stars, then only blue is showing. It is very difficult to get it folded correctly. I attended a funeral with soldiers from McConnell doing the military honors. The flag was removed and folded at the church. They unfolded the flag twice and redone it to get it right in the end, and they did finally. Lewis' flag was folded and presented to me at the cemetary by the VFW in Eureka, and it has never been unfolded. It is displayed in a proper flag case and have thought many times that it should be flown, but just can't bring myself to do it.
While on the subject of the proper way to handle our flag, I have this question. Has anyone else noticed that when the flag is hung flat on a wall that sometimes the star field appears to be in the upper right hand corner instead of the upper left hand corner? Or does it make a difference? It does to me because when the flag is hanging from a pole or rope the star field is at the top and if you take hold of the other top corner and hold it up and face it, the star field is in the upper left hand corner. I even saw it this way on a cake that had been decorated as a flag and was being served at a political function.
Only blue and stars, all sides and all angles. Hard to do but it is proper flag etiquette. I did it as a Boy Scout for our Flag test. May have to find a Boy Scout, Military Color Guard, or a Legion Color Guard member to get it done. You can never show too much respect.
David
I have noticed on the news from time to time that some of our soldiers are wearing an American flag patch on the shoulder of their combat fatigues and the flag is backwards. That is the blue field is to the right and the stripes flow to the left.
It does not look right but is proper according to an Army regulation from a web site:
The regulation states that when authorized for application to the proper uniform the American flag patch is to be worn, right or left shoulder, so that "the star field faces forward, or to the flag's own right. When worn in this manner, the flag is facing to the observer's right, and gives the effect of the flag flying in the breeze as the wearer moves forward. The appropriate replica for the right shoulder sleeve is identified as the 'reverse side flag'."
I know how you feel Flo, Dons' flag is still folded and has the spent shells from the military gun salute tucked inside. The flag was presented to me as well as the spent shells at the cemetary. I have tucked in his I.D. card and display it in a flag case. Sad memories.
With the Fourth of July coming I thought it would be fitting to put a link to the government's official information on the Flag Code. On past Fourth of July's I have used disposable items that had Flags or parts of Flags on them. Technically a violation of the Flag Code even if you do it with patriotic purpose. In honor of the 4th of July I urge you all to take a look at US Flag Code and proper etiquette. I hope that in doing so you learn something new and it brings a warm feeling to you knowing that you live in the best country in the world. Happy Fourth of July and don't forget to honor our military men and women past and present.
http://www.pueblo.gsa.gov/cic_text/misc/ourflag/titlepage.htm
David
sixdogsmom, I also was given the spent shells. What I done with them is this. My son-in-law built a smaller display case the same shape as the flag case. In it I put the last pic. taken before he shipped out for Korea, his dog tags, his billfold size discharge, his stripes and the spent shells. On the lower front is inscribed In Memory of Lewis D. Smith.
That's a nice tribute to him. One of the riflemen tucked those shells inside the flag, and I just left them there. I thought it fitting. The honor guard that took care of Don was from McConnell; very nice young people. I was so pleased they were there, and I know that Don would have felt especially honored. Sad times, these; thanks for sharing.
I just wanted to relate this experience. Two weeks ago today, my father-in-law was buried in Rose Hills in Whittier. As he was a World War 11 veteran he was given a military salute. It was not an elaborate salute, just Taps being played and the folding of the flag. The flag was presented to my wife as she is the oldest child. Once the flag was folded only the blue field with stars was showing. Our daughter had purchased a flag case and it will be placed somewhere that we can see it and reflect on his life. I can't to this day salute our flag without tearing up. :'( I am a veteran and know what that flag means to me. I am always surprised that there are no laws against desecrating that flag (i.e. burning). During Vietnam it was hip for protesters to burn a flag. I would see this and it would anger me. But then-----------------I realized that I may not like the way someone treats my flag, but I respect that persons right to have the freedom to do it------freedom earned by veterans liike my "dad". Larryj
That video brought me literally to crying. The students who thought they were only standing on a piece of cloth were in all actuality standing on the backs of every man and woman who has ever fought for this country. I thought it interesting that the adults were not the ones doing the desecrating of the flag, even though they were the ones being the most vocal and abrasive in their defense of their right to do so. And, the older idiot who stated that they were 'letting the veteran stay'...since when does anyone have to be allowed by some leftist the right to stand up for patriotism??? Have we swung so far to the left that we have forgotten how much blood and tears have been shed in order for us to have these freedoms? That flag has been the symbol that has drawn untold millions to our shores because it was the symbol of the chance of a better life. When you hit the flag, you've just hit where I live...literally.
I just watched this and I only saw several pictures of the same couple three kids standin on a flag....Everybody else was walking around them even if they had to wait for somebody else to go by. I think I would rather focus on that fact than the few who were stupid. Focus on the positive of the guys who stood beside the veteran instead of the college officials who are overeducated idiots as Dad used to call em and the closest they ever get to bein revolutionary is this lame episode. See the trees instead of the forest.
Yes, I noted the ones who were walking around the flags, even the very little ones strewn on the floor. I saw the trees, so to speak. And yes, you're correct...there was a student who came and stood by the Veteran. I guess it's just a bit painful to witness anyone having such an ignorance of what has gone into the making and sustaining of the American flag. What really is ironic is the knowledge that there may very well come a day when those very people who took such joy in the desecration of that symbol may end up in a situation where they are called upon to defend that very symbol...wonder what their opinions and accompanying actions will be then?
I just got to watch this video; I am so proud of the students who paid respect to the flag, but was a bit taken aback that only one student realized the descecration that was being done by having the flag(s) on the floor. I am very proud of that veteran who stood his ground, sometimes being a hero comes late in life. We still have many veterans groups; are they or the auxilliary members of those groups doing anything to educate the youngsters in grade school, intermediate and high school about the flag and respect for the flag?
You just asked my question, SDM. Who is educating the children about our flag? Do they still do the Pledge of Allegiance at school every day?
The school that I teach in does the Pledge every morning, before we are released to go to our classes. One of our K teachers has her children not only do that again but also has them sing "My Country 'Tis of Thee" every morning, too. You have given me a great idea...I think I will talk to my principal about having the Vets come in, for the weeks previous to Vet's Day, to teach my students about the flag and Flag Etiquette, because no...as far as I know, I have heard of no group coming into the schools to teach that element.
on one of the morning talk shows this week there was a segment on teaching your child to be patriotic. It is nice for the schools to have this type of teaching, but it is also very important for PARENTS to teach their child to be patriotic and proud of and respect for the American flag and of their Country, AMERICA.
AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I agree on all counts! Learned at a young age is never forgotten. Laid aside for a time maybe, but not forgotten. This would be a worthwhile project for the scouts also, both Girl and Boy Scouts. And church groups; we have a myriad of places and kinds of worship but one flag. It would be worthwhile for them to devote some time to the flag. How about a little class at the pool this summer?
How about a little "Kids, fireworks are fun and colorful (and expensive), but let's also talk about WHY we celebrate the 4th of July which will be this Friday". You teach them the true reason for Christmas, don't you? and Thanksgiving, don't you? Veteran's day, don't you? Memorial Day, don't you? they also need to know why we celebrate July 4th, why we fly the American Flag, the proper respect for those who defend our American Flag, and how to take care of the American Flag. They can't handle a big flag to fold, but they could sure learn using one of those smaller ones, couldn't they? Teach them to stand at attention when our Flag passes by in a parade, to stand and salute over their heart when our National Anthem is played or sang. Oh, Oh, time for me to shut up. But on a last note, my husband and I taught our three daughters and they remember and have in turn taught theirs.
One more thing I did not know; Thank you to Dale for posting the flag regulations. I did not know that one should cross their heart when the flag is passing in a parade. I do know that it always felt right, but didn't know it was part of the code. See, we could all stand to brush up on Old Glory. I think for next year I am going to suggest that the Legion give a program on flag etiquette for M&L club. Hope that they will do it!
Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts learn about how to treat the flag with respect. Susan
Yes, they do learn that, but it would be nice to pass it on to others.
How about 4H? They surely learn about the flag.
Oops! I forgot about 4H, they would be ideal to teach others. Great projects for next year and coming years. How about it leaders?
You know I mentioned in another thread about me kinda sorta taking a 28 yr old (4yr marine vet) under my wing. ..Well, I had put this up on our Down range Forum.. and we have lots of comments on it. This one is from Kevin... Thought you all might want to hear his reaction.
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I haven't had a chance to read everyones replies on here, this is the first thread I opened up and looked at this morning and after seeing this video I wanted to post while emotion is still strong.
I sit here with a tear on my cheek, I am someone deeply effected by this video as I am sure many of you are. For those of you that I have had a chance to get to know on here, know that I have been through alot and I am not that good at emotion. But something about this had sparked something deep inside me.
That woman (if you can call her that) with the short hair, is all that is wrong with America. She stands there like she is important and believes she is strong and doing the right thing, by disgracing someone that has done more in a 5 min period for me and you, than that woman will ever do for us in her life. She stands there as this man shows the heart and soul of America and what we once were as a nation, and tells him she will have someone remove him from the premises thinking she is doing the right thing. She stands there with her hands folded and bids someone else to her dirty work. This image\video should be shown around the US to show what is wrong with America. You have one person who will stand up and fight for his rights and protect all whom he can (Action). And then you have him surrounded by people with hands folded saying something.(Words).
She is like so many people here in Washington State. That is why it hurts so bad. Cause I know exactly how that vet feels with her in front of him.
This man has bled and probably lost many friends in honor of this flag that he so rightly tries to protect. Yet some kid who has no idea what sacrifice even means stands on it with some stupid sign taped to his back. I wish that kid knew what that man represents and respected him. But he doesn't and I don't know how to help fix that.
I am so sad that I can't even use words to describe the feelings I have. Why didn't that kids parents teach him or why hasn't a teacher influenced him? But then you look and see his teacher mocking the same man and I get so angry.
Sorry that last paragraph there is very unintelligent but I cant tell you how upset I am at that kid, and the problem is there. So many kids that I went to school with that would have done the same thing, the difference is I would be in the video punching the crap out of them.
:'( I'm sitting here reading this last post with more tears in my eyes than when I watched the video. I feel the hurt in Kevin's heart. I have come to one conclusion and have thought this for a long time. Our downfall on patriotism started during the "flower-child hippie" era and Vietnam. Am I right or wrong? That was the beginning, I think, and has steadily gone downhill from there. yes, "free speech" is important, but so is patriotism for the country we live in, "love it or leave it". Yes, Vietnam was very very bad, but lots of Americans gave their lives so that these "flower-children" could have their free speech and the right to run north soon as they said it. >:(
Agreed Flo, although I do not think it as simple as that. I think it has a lot to do with disillusionment with the status quo. This breeds revolution, even if it makes no real sense; just revolting to be revolting. Like throwing rocks through windows, it does nobody any good and doesn't make the thrower feel any better either.
I agree, SDM...and, if you noted the age of those two who were doing most of the demeaning of the Vet., you could imagine those two being part of the "make love, not war" set...and probably sitting around discussing all of their wisdom through a fog of 'Mary Jane' (lol).
Catwoman, my point exactly.
I have never posted a second reply on the same subject on this forum, but I wanted to add this. Just the mere fact that those flags were even laying on the floor is a violation of the rules concerning our flag. I remember that the flag was to never touch the ground. That woman should be given a class on America and its wars to see how many died for that flag. OR, just publicly flogged like they used to do in the revolutionary days! Larryj
in this case, Larry, your second post was right on ! ! ! and needed to be said.
I have read all of your comments on this subject with interest. I can't hold my thoughts back any further, how do you expect our young people to respect the flag when the Number one Democrat, the Democrat that is the candidate for President , did not show respect for the flag during the singing of the NATIONAL ANTHEM, and contrary to one of his excuses, he was not singing. This all happened on National Television for all to see, I am sure that the Rev Wright was proud of him. I have talked to several Veterans on this subject and they were very upset that a United States Senator, a candidate for President would be so disrespectful to the flag and do it in public full well knowing the world was watching, and further that a man of his position would try to blame it on the fact that he didn't know that he was to place his hand over his heart during the National Anthem. I have Presidential Memorial Certificates hanging on my wall that were for 3 of my deceased Brothers that were World War II Veterans, I can tell all of them would be very upset at this incident.
Frank
How do you expect our young people to have respect for ANY thing when our president (GWB) is quoted as saying the constitution of the United States is just a GD piece of paper?
I think the unproven statement you refer to was taken out of context, and for sure it was not on National Television for all to see. There is no question that George Bush and Laura and their families are Loyal Americans and Bush has and will defend the constitution in everyway. I can't judge the so-called statement becauase I don't know what pressure the President was under at the time. I would be disappointed if he said that but I have also said things under pressure that I regret. Noone has ever questioned the Presidents Love and Loyalty to his country and certainly not his familys love and loyalty to America.
Bush On The Constitution
For some reason, this story by Doug Thompson is getting a lot of attention.
GOP leaders told Bush that his hardcore push to renew the more onerous provisions of the act could further alienate conservatives still mad at the President from his botched attempt to nominate White House Counsel Harriet Miers to the Supreme Court.
"I don't give a goddamn," Bush retorted. "I'm the President and the Commander-in-Chief. Do it my way."
"Mr. President," one aide in the meeting said. "There is a valid case that the provisions in this law undermine the Constitution."
"Stop throwing the Constitution in my face," Bush screamed back. "It's just a goddamned piece of paper!"
Here's his "proof:"
I've talked to three people present for the meeting that day and they all confirm that the President of the United States called the Constitution "a goddamned piece of paper."
Three nameless people, eh?
I wouldn't be at all surprised if Bush actually said this, but it's simply irresponsible to publish this without actually naming the names of people who can verify it.
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About the flag incident.Those people (40's?) were too young to be part of my generation. I do not condone any of it, but on a college campus, nothing surprises me. They are learning to define how they think and feel and are choosing their values for life. They probably learned a good lesson in that, along with rights come responsibilities, and their "right" to lay the flag on the floor will be met in some measure by those who would, should and did object. I expect there were many kids there who were unhappy at what was done, but were afraid to object because they didn't know what was happening. They know there is a war going on. Many have family and friends "over there," I'm sure. There were many anti Vietnam demonstrations on campus when I was at UD., and the vets were treated very badly when they came home. At least nobody is screaming"baby killers" at our young military now. They will learn. I'd hardly call what they did an art project... more like a sociology experiment. A poorly thought out one. There are many other ways they could have gotten the same information without hurting anyone and causing such an uproar. Many people feel just as strongly about the swastika. But today's young people are extremely far removed from all that. "I wonder what would happen if"....now they know.