I wish that the Elk county road department would spray the Johnson grass in the Howard road department yard before it goes to seed.
They have the chemicals to kill it, why don't they??? I can't believe they don't ;D ;D
Just come by and look at it.
Question... why would the COUNTY road department spray weeds in the CITY road department's lot? Wouldn't that be the City's responsibility?
I'm not usually one to complain on this sort of thing (I know funds are tight and people are working to the best of their ability), but REALLY... I wish Elk County would do something about the county roads. Again, not personally attacking the road crew, as they normally do a great job, but something has gone terribly wrong in the last couple months. I know the rain that just keeps coming and coming and coming doesn't help, but surely there's some way to grade the roads so that the water runs OFF the road instead of down the MIDDLE of the road? I'm no expert, and I would never want to tell them how to do their job, but maybe someone can shed some light on what the issues are? I'm saving on gas just so I don't have to drive on the roads to get to town!!! ;)
It is the county road department. It is the unit of the county road department that is located in Howard and right across the street from me.
I have a problem with the water standing between Hubbles and Bellar's. Its has been deep enough last week that there was a fish that got caught in it. It ended up dying. I think that the ditches must not be draining right. I know that they work hard, it has been alot of the weather that has caused the problems and the cost of fuel doesn't help.
Well, coming from the woman that is married to the locator that gets the calls for all the locates for the county, it doesn't help when the county calls in a locate for ditch cleaning and then calls in an update because they didn't get to it and then another and then another and then another. There's some ditches that were marked for ditch cleaning 2 years ago that still aren't done! :P
The ditches are the problem with the water running down the roads. It has been a real tough year for the road guys though. Just when they get a little ahead with just keeping the roads drivable it comes a gulley washer rain and boom, back to the starting line.
Again, I'm not personally attacking the road crew. I know things have been tight and they have many, many miles of road to maintain across the county.
The issues I saw last night on my walk were that most of the ditches ARE deep enough. But for some reason, the roads have been graded so that the water cannot run into the ditch. The road is cut out deeper than the side of the ditch, therefore not allowing the water to flow into the ditch. Rather, keeps it along the side of the road and it has no where to go except IN the road.
I'm not qualified to tell the county how to do their job, by any means. But I wonder who is, and if they're realizing that a little extra time and effort to grade the road correctly will save a LOT more time and effort in the long run (and after every little rain shower). Our roads are good enough that they might not need graded every time it rains, as long as the water can properly drain. Same goes for all the good gravel they're putting on (good gravel, right placement, but is it necessary?); they wouldn't need to haul so much gravel into the potholes if the water could drain OFF the road instead of sitting on it and creating potholes.
All of these concerns are valid --- but when I read the Commissioners meeting reports in the FlintHills express --- and they have an open forum meeting for citizens to attend and express their concers NO ONE SHOWS UP ---
Go to the meeting, people, and state your case. Call the courthouse -- find out the time of the open forum meetings and attend !!!
You're right, Jo. Although I always cringe at the thought of going to a meeting like that... I'm not a complainer and don't want to be perceived as such. I hate to be critical of someone else's job, because I know "I" couldn't do it myself! My thoughts are why should I have to go "raise a fuss" at a meeting, when someone else is supposed to be getting paid (and is trained) to manage these problems?
Yes, that is true, but-------the squeaky wheel gets the grease ( as they say ) and those in power have to hear that everyones is NOT always happy with their performance - they may be and probably are trained to do their duties, but you know, ofentimes they like to "slide by" and do only enough to get by. I hope I am not classified as a "whiner/giper" but I was taught to do it right the first time, and you won't have to do it over. And I believe that as writers of the pay checks, that rule should be "the laid in cememt rule" ...either do the job right - or go look for another one that lets you slide by.
Grouchy old woman, today, aren't I?
Yes, I agree about being raised to do the job right the first time. So, I would have to go in to the Commissioners meeting armed with pictures, graphs, diagrams just to make sure I got the job done right. Ha!
How about if I just send all that stuff with Wilma when she goes in to tell them about the weed spraying? (How's that for chickening out?)
lol lol lol
I am a big believer in stating your opinion. I have spent many years working in a service environment in business and in government. I also, find myself not wanting to be the whiner\complainer etc. I think many of us are in the same boat. I could write 10,000 pages on this topic. Since we are talking about a government agency that your tax dollars pay for you have the right and some might say the responsibility to say something. I think we all find ourselves in the same dilemma. I still struggle with it myself. Overall in the situation that you talk about I don't think anyone would think of you as a whiner and sometimes we all need to complain.
David
Thanks for the encouragement.
I am a "solutions" type of person. I don't just complain or criticize; I offer solutions for making it work right. Which is why I said I'd have to go in armed with diagrams and pictures! Then I come across as a "know it all", which for me is worse. Plus, sometimes you get roped into helping/doing something you don't really want to do!
Anyway, it looks like rain again, so I guess the roads will only get worse!
The commissers meeting are the second and last Monday of every month. Open forum is at 1 p.m. If you want on the list to speak you need to let Donna know by the wed. before. The next meeting is the 30th at 1 p.m.
I think the commissioners would welcome some input about your concerns. You know, none of us are mind readers, and unless you do go to the open forum, and voice your concerns, they have no idea that you even have any..other than the "stuff" they hear at the cafe or Toots.
Of course, you could write your commissioner a letter and let her/him know what your concerns are. Same way with the city council. You need to have your voice heard, otherwise their decisions are all that they have.
Did the Commissioners ever find a new road boss??
Yes, they hired a gentleman by the name of Ernest Lackey. He worked for a constuction company in Wichita before moving to Elk county. He started to work yesterday 9/2/08.
think Ernie Jr. has been doing some dirt work on his own since moving here, hasn't he?
Ernie Lackey is a great guy..and I am sure he will do a good job.
having done basically this same kind of work and having managed his own business, I would think he's perfect for this job.
Well I guess I have no idea what's going on around here. Who was the old boss and what happened to him/her?
The old boss was Dick Scott. I understand he turned in hisresignation, I am told.
I hope we start from ground up. Or from the fence line in. Have we ever done an assessment of the entire 700miles of roads?
I think there needs to be a new plan with actual schedules of times when things are to be done and then publish those schedules.
Quit hauling gravel to bandaid the road base issues. Fix the ditch, crown the road, then haul the gravel.
If there is a emergency have a plan for it. Don't put it off for two or three years.
I would love to have a taxpayer input and a grade card.
That way the elected officials would have a bench mark.
The hired personel would have a goal.
The taxpayer would feel more in the loop of what was going on.
Flint have you been here? this thing is dead.
No Pat, look again. I actually revived this one after it was unconscious for two months.
Now that I've responded to you, I'm sure it will die. ::) ;D
By the way, I do agree 100% with what you've said on topic here, and would like to reinterate that I don't think the commissioners are getting the quality of rock that they are paying for from all of their sources. Maybe now is the time to investigate this issue.
They will never open the MM quarry. Get that through. Its never going to happen. Besides why mine 30ft for 3' of good rock when you can get kind of good rock lots closer to the surface?
I'm not talking about opening MM. Just that what they're paying for and what they are receiving may not be the same thing.
When you have a monopoly what choices do you really have to offer? You charge what the market will support for the quality that they can afford. Just like my wifey's favorite megabox.
Ask that question over in Bentonville.
What happened to the quarry that was reopened two miles east on Busby Road, or was that just to rebuild K99 with?
no market, no railroad tracks, cornejo doesn't like Black landlords I guess.
What does a portable crusher cost to purchase or rent. Stockpile a bunch for the county from Blacks!
Some interesting changes going on around Elk County...the county has been grading the roads the past week or so, and some interesting things are going on. For instance, on Limestone Rd, West of town at the bridge 1/4 mile down the road, the graders graded down the ditch on both sides of the bridge. They also did this at most of the culverts for about 3 miles on that road. THEN... a day later, they came by and all the big chuncks of dirt and grass that they pulled from the ditch... they loaded up on trucks and took to the dump! Wow!
Now, they only did this on one road I travel, and only for about 3 miles, but it's a good start! I'm interested to see if this helps the roads the next time it rains and gets the water off the road, rather than sit in the middle of the road and makes big holes. There are a lot more improvements that need to be made to the quality of the roads, yes. But getting the water to flow off the road and starting to create ditches is a good start.
I've heard some people complain about flat tires. I, too, seem to have a lot of flat tires lately. I'm to the point of asking my tire man about a volume discount. But, when it's been so long since the ditches have been graded out, there's probably a lot of junk in them that will end up on the road. Not sure there is any way to prevent this? Maybe a big magnet attached to the bottom of the grader? ;) We should be cautious as to complaining about the work being done to the roads; it wasn't long ago we were complaining that NOTHING was being done! They can't change the situation overnight, so we must be patient and stay positive about it.
Quote from: Tobina on September 22, 2008, 02:23:22 PM
I've heard some people complain about flat tires. I, too, seem to have a lot of flat tires lately. I'm to the point of asking my tire man about a volume discount. But, when it's been so long since the ditches have been graded out, there's probably a lot of junk in them that will end up on the road. Not sure there is any way to prevent this? Maybe a big magnet attached to the bottom of the grader? ;) We should be cautious as to complaining about the work being done to the roads; it wasn't long ago we were complaining that NOTHING was being done! They can't change the situation overnight, so we must be patient and stay positive about it.
You know tobina I can't afford more flat tires. I have spent over 130 dollars in tire repairs since may. That's ridiculous.
I have one tire that i just bought and got flat and lanning told me he couldn't fix it. I patched it myself and am
riding on a wing and prayer with it. I paid another 80 dollars for that tire. We pay taxes in fuel purchase to buy this
gravel and to fix these roads with. And the only time i get these flats is when they grade the ditch into the roads.
its a tossup whether to put up with potholes or nails and spikes. At least with the potholes i don't get a flat.
The type of gravel their using is the main cause of flats though from what i understand. Their putting shale on the roads which splinter into sharp shards. get some decent gravel and put on the roads is the solution. Why can greenwood co get decent gravel and elk can't??? I have ended up driving through piedmont to hyw then over to severy and down to howard to keep my tires inflated instead of going the direct route. IF greenwood county can get decent gravel why can't elk??
they ought to be hauling off the dirt out of the ditches to wherever landfill that they need to raise up, and No dirt from the ditches going into the roads. They sure messed up rock road down there around 14 road. I almost went into that cavern on the side one night after they did their ditching from the condition they left the road in and I drive slower than Mr. Ward.
The gravel question has been discussed before, and that's a good question. Hopefully one that the new road manager will address very soon. I have noticed that they've stopped trying to "fix" the roads by just putting a load of gravel on them. Like I said, I think there are some interesting changes in the road situation, and I hope to see them continue. So far, it seems to me, the changes are positive (but I've only quoted about 5 miles of road in my small area of the county!).
One of the things that I think would help, is that they start closing some of the "low maintenace" roads. Less for them to worry about. They spent a whole day and who knows how many dollars repairing a bridge on Road 9 north of Limestone before it dead-ends. There's about 2 people who drive on that road... when the creek isn't too high. And they can just drive around and go in from Road 8 if they need to. I know there are some people who live on these types of roads, but this 1 mile section isn't one of them. The guys who have cattle on that road can use the back way to get in just fine. There are other people who drive that road; but most of them are up to no good and just sight-seers when the water is high... and guess who's house they walk to when they get stuck?
I'm sure I can match your $130 dollars on getting tires fixed since May. At $10-12 a pop, it adds up fast. Damian and I get to catch up with each other weekly... in fact, I visited him just this morning! On one of our vehicles, the dealership made the mistake of selling us an after-market 5 YEAR warranty for tire and wheel hazard... for only $400. I've been through 7 tires in 2 years! Hee, hee, they're kicking themselves now!
Maybe it's the speed you drive??? I haven't had to many flat tires and I drive about 40 miles per hour or so. They just graded my road last week, so I was worried about that. Also, what type of tires?? I don't know to much about them, but I buy my tires at Lannings. I drive a van. Of course, we don't live as far out of town as we used to live. But I do understand what you mean about the roads holding water. Down the road from us, a little past Hubbells, the water gets really deep. Sometimes I have to drive around on limestone to get home. But where we live now is so much closer to town, plus the Y used to do the same thing when it rained.
Quote from: angtown3 on September 22, 2008, 04:09:01 PM
Maybe it's the speed you drive??? I haven't had to many flat tires and I drive about 40 miles per hour or so. They just graded my road last week, so I was worried about that. Also, what type of tires?? I don't know to much about them, but I buy my tires at Lannings. I drive a van. Of course, we don't live as far out of town as we used to live. But I do understand what you mean about the roads holding water. Down the road from us, a little past Hubbells, the water gets really deep. Sometimes I have to drive around on limestone to get home. But where we live now is so much closer to town, plus the Y used to do the same thing when it rained.
I said i drive slower that Mr. Dean Ward. :P
They don't make anything but 4ply for my s10 tires and now i'm having trouble getting them. Their apparantlly stopping production of 14" tires.
Quote from: Tobina on September 22, 2008, 03:58:15 PM
The gravel question has been discussed before, and that's a good question. Hopefully one that the new road manager will address very soon. I have noticed that they've stopped trying to "fix" the roads by just putting a load of gravel on them. Like I said, I think there are some interesting changes in the road situation, and I hope to see them continue. So far, it seems to me, the changes are positive (but I've only quoted about 5 miles of road in my small area of the county!).
One of the things that I think would help, is that they start closing some of the "low maintenace" roads. Less for them to worry about. They spent a whole day and who knows how many dollars repairing a bridge on Road 9 north of Limestone before it dead-ends. There's about 2 people who drive on that road... when the creek isn't too high. And they can just drive around and go in from Road 8 if they need to. I know there are some people who live on these types of roads, but this 1 mile section isn't one of them. The guys who have cattle on that road can use the back way to get in just fine. There are other people who drive that road; but most of them are up to no good and just sight-seers when the water is high... and guess who's house they walk to when they get stuck?
I'm sure I can match your $130 dollars on getting tires fixed since May. At $10-12 a pop, it adds up fast. Damian and I get to catch up with each other weekly... in fact, I visited him just this morning! On one of our vehicles, the dealership made the mistake of selling us an after-market 5 YEAR warranty for tire and wheel hazard... for only $400. I've been through 7 tires in 2 years! Hee, hee, they're kicking themselves now!
Well it astonishes me how i have had more flats in the last year, than i have had in the entire 32 years i have been driving and that is no joke. I grew up on gravel roads and never once had a flat from gravel. So I know it can be done right, just have to get them to fix it right the first time and then maintain it :)
I've found that certain times of the year are worse, too. RIGHT NOW (late summer/fall) is BAD, and usually when I have the most trouble. Also, early in the spring, if I remember right.
I grew up w/ gravel roads, too, and only had to change a flat once (when I hit a frozen rut going too fast... I was going to be late for curfew... at least then I had an excuse!). But the roads and the gravel are entirely different in NW KS. My parents would KILL for roads like ours! Ha! 1/2 inch of rain, and my mom can't make it to town for 2 days without 4WD pickup!
You might have grown up on gravel roads but not Elk County gravel. We have some of the hardest rock in the nation. This is why there are federal and state spec quarries on all sides of the county. The rock is harder, sharper and more plentiful than is the high plains or swamp. Flint already told you about the crappie rock crusher harshness makes gravel from is a cheap layer of $7 a ton stuff.
Buy a bigger vehicle with larger tires that have more tread on the ground. I ran, used to, run trashhauler recaps that are 14 ply tires, worked really well and have no problems with the rock.
The faster you drive the less time you spend on the road. Just put the petal on the right down a foot or two and you will get to your destination before the tires go flat. Quit buying cheap tires. I drive 90% of the roads in Elk County and rarely have a flat..... that Bill can't fix. Besides tires are cheap. What's a few hundred dollars compared to the hundreds of thousands that we spend each year graveling the ditches.
Greenwood county spends more on tires than our entire gravel budget. That would be like comparing a Yugo to a Freightliner. Larger county, more population, better road crews, and they have their own sets of problems. I have been on some pretty poor GW county roads.
If the rancher is paying taxes just like any other land owner why should the road be closed so the trip to the cattle is four miles farther? If you start closing roads you loose your federal and state cost share per mile of road. Yes, it is stupid to spend so much time on untraveled roads but look how bad they can screw up the ones that are heavily traveled.
I think the new management will either fix or at least identify the maintenance problem. He has been on the job less than a month. Give him a chance to screw up before waxing with broad strokes.
Quote from: pepelect on September 22, 2008, 08:11:49 PM
You might have grown up on gravel roads but not Elk County gravel. We have some of the hardest rock in the nation. This is why there are federal and state spec quarries on all sides of the county. The rock is harder, sharper and more plentiful than is the high plains or swamp. Flint already told you about the crappie rock crusher harshness makes gravel from is a cheap layer of $7 a ton stuff.
Buy a bigger vehicle with larger tires that have more tread on the ground. I ran, used to, run trashhauler recaps that are 14 ply tires, worked really well and have no problems with the rock.
Not everyone can go out and buy one tire much less a new vehicle. Sorry but in the real world most folks don't have that much money to spend on BRAND NEW TIRES to have them destroyed by cheap gravel the county bought. put some decent gravel down with the tax money that we paid, and we won't have to buy 200 dollar tires. Whats a few hundred bucks? Maybe nothing to you but its probably a 6 months supply of gasoline for my truck.
Since you live in Greenwood county try driving the highway when you go to Howard. I can't think why you are paying taxes in Elk County.
My first set lasted 67045 miles. That is about four and a half years. They cost 210. or the equilivant to 58.49 gallons of gas @3.49. What kind, unless it is a broken down up on blocks kind, of truck can last 6 months on 58 gallons of gas?
Maybe I already spent that .0031 cents per mile on fuel to keep the speed up to mach 3.
Haven't had a new truck in 8 years.
I think that is why the big three are in such poor financial shape because I have not purchased a new toy. I should do it for the global economy...
I sold my old worn out gas hog of a four cylinder '87 toyota and got a heck of a deal on a '97 big block chevy. As I am getting older/fatter, I continuously need a larger and more spacious vehicle. One that much more matches my ego.
The seats are pretty worn on the drivers side so I will just stuff the seat covers with $100 bills to make me taller as I drive up and down the road looking for hedge apples to grill for lunch.
Quote from: pepelect on September 22, 2008, 09:10:13 PM
My first set lasted 67045 miles. That is about four and a half years. They cost 210. or the equilivant to 58.49 gallons of gas @3.49. What kind, unless it is a broken down up on blocks kind, of truck can last 6 months on 58 gallons of gas?
LOL well tires ain't that cheap no more.
Last tire i bought was over in eureka cause he had the best deal and it cost me 80 a tire. But they don't make
anything more than 4 ply for a 14" wheel.
and my broken down ole truck has done me quite well thank you. I don't go through 20 gallons of gas a month. Can't afford anymore.
And its paid for and will run another 10 years. :)
QuoteHaven't had a new truck in 8 years.
Shoot your truck is newer than mine!
QuoteI sold my old worn out gas hog of a four cylinder '87 toyota and got a heck of a deal on a '97 big block chevy. As I am getting older/fatter, I continuously need a larger and more spacious vehicle. One that much more matches my ego.
Still got my 89 s10 I'm older and getting fatter and still fit in my truck :)
QuoteThe seats are pretty worn on the drivers side so I will just stuff the seat covers with $100 bills to make me taller as I drive up and down the road looking for hedge apples to grill for lunch.
well if thats what it takes to hold ya up :)
Quote from: greatguns on September 22, 2008, 09:04:14 PM
Since you live in Greenwood county try driving the highway when you go to Howard. I can't think why you are paying taxes in Elk County.
Road work is funded by fuel taxes. :)
So buy more fuel so we have better roads.
Greenwood County has better road crews, huh? I'll do my very best to buy more fuel. I'll even try to pay more at the pumps. ;) ;)
Quote from: pepelect on September 23, 2008, 05:47:56 AM
So buy more fuel so we have better roads.
Hey i am doing my part. :)
:D
Quote from: srkruzich on September 22, 2008, 09:21:24 PM
Quote from: pepelect on September 22, 2008, 09:10:13 PM
My first set lasted 67045 miles. That is about four and a half years. They cost 210. or the equilivant to 58.49 gallons of gas @3.49. What kind, unless it is a broken down up on blocks kind, of truck can last 6 months on 58 gallons of gas?
LOL well tires ain't that cheap no more.
Last tire i bought was over in eureka cause he had the best deal and it cost me 80 a tire. But they don't make
anything more than 4 ply for a 14" wheel.
and my broken down ole truck has done me quite well thank you. I don't go through 20 gallons of gas a month. Can't afford anymore.
And its paid for and will run another 10 years. :)
QuoteHaven't had a new truck in 8 years.
Shoot your truck is newer than mine!
QuoteI sold my old worn out gas hog of a four cylinder '87 toyota and got a heck of a deal on a '97 big block chevy. As I am getting older/fatter, I continuously need a larger and more spacious vehicle. One that much more matches my ego.
Still got my 89 s10 I'm older and getting fatter and still fit in my truck :)
QuoteThe seats are pretty worn on the drivers side so I will just stuff the seat covers with $100 bills to make me taller as I drive up and down the road looking for hedge apples to grill for lunch.
well if thats what it takes to hold ya up :)
I am not trying to step on any toes, but I learned over my short years some very valuable lessons about my car. Of course I don't drive alot either, I do the majority of shopping in Elk County, but cheaper is not always better. When I got my first car, I always bought used tires, never new. Did they last long??? NO!! Of course now, I don't have much extra money either but new nice tires last alot longer. I buy my from Lannings, don't know anything much about them but they cost around 85.00 a piece. I have replaced them all since I bought my van 2 years ago. But don't have many flats at all. I do drive a little to fast, probably, but if that keeps things rolling it works for me.
Also, I think we do have are share of problems with the roads. But do you really think that the road crews go to work with a mission to make all the roads worse?? I don't think so. The weather doesn't help the matter of the roads. Can they do a better job??? Yes. We need to give the new leader a chance before we knock him down.
Someone in this house helps make that crappy gravel that you drive on.
He can buy brand new tires when he needs them, and the tires he runs usually cost over $100 each. Usually he'll buy 2 tires one month and 2 the next.
Can't beat Lanning's or the Severy Co-op on tires. Cheapest around.
I'm will not complain about the job the county does on the roads. I will say there is room for improvement. And I would live it if they could grade the road once without hitting the phone line.
We all have options in this. We can spend money and run with good tires or we can run with junk tires and spend our money on tire repair. We can opt to slow down on the gravel roads and have less flats. We can drive the super slabs and still run over something and still have a flat. Most roads of any kind can use some improvement. Or of course we can just live in this beautiful part of the State and complain and tell us how everywhere else in the U.S. is better.
If you think about it....by the time you buy used or cheap tires, get them fixed a few times....You might as well have paid for the good tires that last.
I drive 7 miles from Howard to get home, all on gravel. I haven't had a flat tire in months. We run grip spur tires on the flatbed and they help, but they're pricey.
Crappie is good pan fried or rolled with cornmeal.
I know there are different grades of stone in EK. Are you saying that the stuff the county puts on the road is the best available or just the cheapest that is available? What percentage of fines are there for compaction?
There are different milling techniques that produce different grades of gravel. The way the rock is crushed is a vital component in how it incorporates into the road bed.
No I don't think GW county has a better road department just much bigger because they have many more miles of roads. They still use township maintenance. Which I think is a giant waste of money. Central one shop like oh lets say Coffey County makes more sense.
Quote from: angtown3 on September 23, 2008, 07:25:22 AM
We need to give the new leader a chance before we knock him down.
That was my point exactly when I re-opened this thread. I wanted to point out that some changes are being made, and I think that they're interesting! Road conditions aren't going to change overnight (unless we have another 5-10" of rain). It's a tough job stepping into someone else's shoes, especially OLD shoes that have been around for years, and it doesn't matter if you think the old shoes were good or not. Be patient, accept change, and have a positive attitude. I have driven quite a few more roads since my first post, and I REALLY am getting excited! There are a couple areas that seem to have been "missed", but there are other sections of road that were really bad and the guys have done a knock-up job in getting it fixed! If any of them are lurking out there, THANKS and GOOD JOB! (Oh, and can you come back and do that scraping thing around the culvert in the road at the end of my driveway, too?) ;)
Quote from: greatguns on September 23, 2008, 11:23:05 AM
We all have options in this. We can spend money and run with good tires or we can run with junk tires and spend our money on tire repair. We can opt to slow down on the gravel roads and have less flats. We can drive the super slabs and still run over something and still have a flat. Most roads of any kind can use some improvement. Or of course we can just live in this beautiful part of the State and complain and tell us how everywhere else in the U.S. is better.
Well, I can tell you this, I have spent money on good tires only to have them last for only a couple of years. Drive slow and the same rock is still going to slice your tire.
My other car is a mini van. I don't drive it on the dirt roads except to get to a paved road which is 7 miles away. I can't get heavy tread for it. I'm limited at 8 ply tires and these were really good, expensive Michelin tires and after 2 years they already need to be replaced. Bigger vehicle? Forget it!! Not with the price of gas!! And yesterday they graded the road and pulled all the big rocks out of the ditch and left them in the middle of the road. I was dodging rocks left and right praying I didn't get a flat.
Hope you don't center one of those big rocks and do some damage to the underside of your car. I haven't been out in the country since Mother's Day and then we took Janet's truck. I really miss going out to that part of the county and seeing what all the old neighbors are doing. And the beautiful wild flowers and wild life. I used to call those rocks, Elk County gravel.
I don't have that much trouble with Elk county. If I did I wouldn't have moved here! ;)
But I do have one gripe!! LOL
The speed of which drivers drive down this road. My little girls dog got ran over the other morning because a truck actually sped up to try and hit him!! That made me furious! We have 4 children and the people down the road have two small children. They do travel back and forth between the two houses. How soon before these truck drivers and ranchers acidentally hit a child? They drive down this road past our house hitting AT LEAST 55 mph. That's way too fast on these dirt roads and there's no possible way they could stop suddenly should they need to.
So, the roads I'm use to and have learned to cope with it, not a big deal, but the drivers endangering the lives of others on the road I do mind. Anyone know if the county can put up signs here to alert people that there may be children in the area?
Quote from: Wilma on September 25, 2008, 10:21:51 AM
Hope you don't center one of those big rocks and do some damage to the underside of your car. I haven't been out in the country since Mother's Day and then we took Janet's truck. I really miss going out to that part of the county and seeing what all the old neighbors are doing. And the beautiful wild flowers and wild life. I used to call those rocks, Elk County gravel.
I will say the leaves are starting to change. :)
Probably not and meanwhile, teach the children that when they hear a vehicle coming, get off the road. If I remember right the ditches are non-existent and if the roadside is kept as well mowed as Bill Rader used to keep it, it is easy enough to get over to a fence and stand there. You should probably hope that they don't get hit by a flying rock, too.
YES, I think there are "children at play" signs that you can buy and post. I see them around different areas, and also in towns. You might want to ask the county, but I think you can buy them somewhere if they don't have any.
Quote from: Wilma on September 25, 2008, 10:28:11 AM
Probably not and meanwhile, teach the children that when they hear a vehicle coming, get off the road. If I remember right the ditches are non-existent and if the roadside is kept as well mowed as Bill Rader used to keep it, it is easy enough to get over to a fence and stand there. You should probably hope that they don't get hit by a flying rock, too.
We have done that, but like one day my daughter was on her bike and she pulled over into our driveway when a semi can zipping down the road and he saw her and went over to the right, but there was another truck following too close to the other one in his dust and couldn't see my daughter. Another rancher coming from the other way saw it and started blaring his horn. The semi slowed down and missed our daughter by no more then a foot. :(
They really drive way too fast out here down our road with no regard to people or animals that are in the road.
I know that road really well and there has always been people that drive too fast on it. They thought my father was an old fogey that wouldn't go any faster but he was caring for his vehicle and tires. He didn't have nearly the flats that some of the neighbors had. I have never figured out why they are in such a hurry. It's like hurrying in Wichita. You hurry, pass everybody, then stop at the next light and let them catch up with you. What's the point?
I don't know that there is any solution to the speed. Speed signs would be ignored, just as the 55 mile per hour speed on rural roads is ignored. The children, for their own safety, will have to understand that they need to get away from the road.
Do you know our dog got hit about 2 weeks ago, too. But it's the dogs fault I am sure. I was out at the mailbox getting the mail and another car was coming and my dogs chased the car. If they can't learn not to chase the cars, then I guess they are putting their own self in danger. I hate that it got hit, but I also feel that sometimes dogs chase the cars, and no matter how fast people are going sometimes the dogs just don't get out of the way.
I have small children, too. I really won't let them ride their bikes in the road, one we are close to a little hill and two, the road that I live on is a busy road. But they so sometimes walk to their grandparents house just down the road. We do have nicer ditches, so they walk in them. But you are right, the farmers that are pulling trailers and stuff do really drive fast on the dirt roads.
Drive fast maybe you can get there before the slice makes your tire flat. I'll still slow down and have less flat tires.
Two years doesn't mean much, the question is how many miles do you put on them in that two years?
Quote from: greatguns on September 25, 2008, 03:41:40 PM
Two years doesn't mean much, the question is how many miles do you put on them in that two years?
Try 10,000 miles and most of that's highway. I stay off the rock roads as much as possible with my van.
Our truck is going to need tires again, but we haul water with it, so on top of rocks it has a lot of weight in the back. But they're 12 ply tires. We don't get flats from the rocks too much with those tires, but the rocks are chipping and sanding away at the tread. But like I said, with the weight of the water, that's not really surprising.
Quote from: Wilma on September 25, 2008, 12:41:03 PM
I know that road really well and there has always been people that drive too fast on it. They thought my father was an old fogey that wouldn't go any faster but he was caring for his vehicle and tires. He didn't have nearly the flats that some of the neighbors had. I have never figured out why they are in such a hurry. It's like hurrying in Wichita. You hurry, pass everybody, then stop at the next light and let them catch up with you. What's the point?
I don't know that there is any solution to the speed. Speed signs would be ignored, just as the 55 mile per hour speed on rural roads is ignored. The children, for their own safety, will have to understand that they need to get away from the road.
I think all the big trucks, bull haulers, hay haulers, rock trucks, dump trucks use this road because it's a road that actually goes all the way through and it's relatively flat so they can get up some serious speed going down these roads. But I still say that doesn't make it right. You're not allowed to drive that way through residential areas, so why on dirt roads where there's houses? shrug
I might look for the signs. :) Maybe that'll at least make them aware that sometimes there are small children out near the road.
That road might also be the longest straight stretch of road in Elk County. Makes a good speedway. Maybe a "Cattle Crossing" sign would slow them down. I have seen signs that say "Children Present" but only in residential neighborhoods in town.
Maybe we should teach oour children not to play in the street or the middle of the road and especially if there are speeding automobiles on it.
Quote from: greatguns on September 25, 2008, 08:23:10 PM
Maybe we should teach oour children not to play in the street or the middle of the road and especially if there are speeding automobiles on it.
Uhm, excuse me, but since when are children not allowed to walk down to neighbors homes to play? And since when did the laws change that pedestrians have the right of way? And since when are drivers not going to get their very lives sued out of them for killing a child and when are they not held criminally liable for doing so especially if they're exceeding the speed limit where they can safely stop? Why can't adults learn to be responsible and not act like idiots???
Quote from: Wilma on September 25, 2008, 08:12:44 PM
That road might also be the longest straight stretch of road in Elk County. Makes a good speedway. Maybe a "Cattle Crossing" sign would slow them down. I have seen signs that say "Children Present" but only in residential neighborhoods in town.
Actually, there is a ranch just west of us.......uhm, it would be Wedman's and they have signs that say CAUTION: Children at play on each side of their property out on the road.
Wouldn't these truck drivers driving 60 and 70 mph down these gravel roads be breaking the speed limit laws??
Quote from: srkruzich on September 25, 2008, 08:31:19 PM
Wouldn't these truck drivers driving 60 and 70 mph down these gravel roads be breaking the speed limit laws??
I think county road speed limits is 40mph. But I could be wrong.
The speed limit is actually 55 on county roads (according to the KDOT website) unless it is posted slower; however the book states that you must also consider what is 'reasonable and prudent' for the road, traffic and weather conditions; so concievably they could get a traffic ticket while going 55 or even less ~ if there was someone there to give them one. 55 is much too fast for most gravel roads (IMO) but the folks who think their business is more important than other people's safety probably wouldn't slow down even if a lower limit was posted.
It's not 'fair' or right, but I hope you are teaching your kids to watch out for the bad drivers... It's a skill they can use even when they are adults and/or drivers themselves. I warn my adult kids to watch out for other drivers all the time. They know that no matter how much I trust them I'll always worry about 'the other guy' doing something stupid.
Quote from: Joanna on September 25, 2008, 09:27:16 PM
The speed limit is actually 55 on county roads (according to the KDOT website) unless it is posted slower; however the book states that you must also consider what is 'reasonable and prudent' for the road, traffic and weather conditions; so concievably they could get a traffic ticket while going 55 or even less ~ if there was someone there to give them one. 55 is much too fast for most gravel roads (IMO) but the folks who think their business is more important than other people's safety probably wouldn't slow down even if a lower limit was posted.
It's not 'fair' or right, but I hope you are teaching your kids to watch out for the bad drivers... It's a skill they can use even when they are adults and/or drivers themselves. I warn my adult kids to watch out for other drivers all the time. They know that no matter how much I trust them I'll always worry about 'the other guy' doing something stupid.
I agree and I do, but it's pure stupidity to drive that fast down these roads and as you go past any area where children are you will always see signs to slow down. Why? Cause children, like animals, are unpredictable. Sometimes they jump out. We have our whole house fenced in and a gate on the driveway. They can't go too far, but it's the principle of the matter and from that I won't back down. :)
Uhmm whats wrong with making the folks slow down? As a former truck driver, I know there is no possible way that
these cattle haulers could safely come to a stop driving as fast as they do. IF they lose a steer tire right there where Sarah lives, they would most likely end up with the whole rig sitting in her house!
So teaching kids wouldn't do any good if they lose it there and end up in the yard or the house.
Another thing i noticed one morning is that school bus that goes down rd 9, flys down it. Doesnt' stop for nothing. Went past the buss one morning and it didn't slow down a bit and took up the whole road. I had to take the ditch to keep from getting hit.
Whew! I didn't realize we were talking about how to make money by suing the socks off somebody. I thought we were discussing the safety of children. I didn't say you should run over the children. I still do believe you should teach them to walk at the edge of the road and to face oncoming traffic as they do. After what happened to the two girls in OK., I don't know that you should let your children walk down any country roadfor a fourth or a half of mile anyway. So Steve you might sue and get you some money , but that wouldn't bring back a precious child.
Quote from: greatguns on September 26, 2008, 03:17:04 PM
Whew! I didn't realize we were talking about how to make money by suing the socks off somebody. I thought we were discussing the safety of children. I didn't say you should run over the children. I still do believe you should teach them to walk at the edge of the road and to face oncoming traffic as they do. After what happened to the two girls in OK., I don't know that you should let your children walk down any country roadfor a fourth or a half of mile anyway. So Steve you might sue and get you some money , but that wouldn't bring back a precious child.
I agree that children are to be taught. :)
But that doesn't exactly take away the responsibility of drivers on the roads does it? We were watching rock trucks go down this road today and they were easily hitting 60 mph or better. If ANYTHING were to jump in front of them they would never be able to stop safely. No possible way and chances are in that gravel they would slide sideways and end up on their top side more than likely.
I agree ditches are safe and that's usually where we tell them to go, but this time of year you try to stay out of any tall grass with all the rattle snakes around. Anywhere where you can't see the dirt is questionable. And as far as bikes are concerned it's a little dangerous to ride in the ditch. It's impossible to ride in our yard. It wasn't meant for bike riding. But this is no major highway. If we needed to have to worry about that I would have moved beside 400.
I did actually noticed some big cattle haulers go by today and they actually slowed down when they went past these houses. Miracles of miracles their brakes do work!! They went by here at about 35 maybe. I was very impressed!! Thank you to who ever that was!!
This road is not a big huge road. And just south of us it turns to one car wide with grass in the middle of the road. It's not like it's a major road. Why the rock haulers choose to go roaring down this road is beyond me. But people shouldn't have to fear for their lives when walking on the road because truck drivers think they need to show off a little and show just how fast they can go.
Sarah, I don't live far from you. And I have cattle southwest of your house...So I know where you are.
I want to add...I live on a very busy country road as well. People speed up and down it daily. My house is far enough away from the road that it doesn't bother me too bad. However, we have dogs. Our dogs sometimes go down to the road and sniff around and do whatever. Then they come back up to the house. They don't linger in the road, they don't lay in the road. They chased a vehicle once and were taught a quick lesson about it. They were chained up. Did they like it? No. Do they chase cars? No. It is your responsibility as a pet owner to keep your pet away from the road. Even a slow moving vehicle would find it difficult to avoid a stray animal on a gravel road. Don't complain about the traffic and your pets if you aren't willing to take action. Just like, if I had cattle out and someone hit them...It's not their fault (the driver), it's the cattle owner's problem. I feel the same way about a dog. . . Does this make sense?
Quote from: CDBL on September 26, 2008, 04:22:58 PM
Sarah, I don't live far from you. And I have cattle southwest of your house...So I know where you are.
I want to add...I live on a very busy country road as well. People speed up and down it daily. My house is far enough away from the road that it doesn't bother me too bad. However, we have dogs. Our dogs sometimes go down to the road and sniff around and do whatever. Then they come back up to the house. They don't linger in the road, they don't lay in the road. They chased a vehicle once and were taught a quick lesson about it. They were chained up. Did they like it? No. Do they chase cars? No. It is your responsibility as a pet owner to keep your pet away from the road. Even a slow moving vehicle would find it difficult to avoid a stray animal on a gravel road. Don't complain about the traffic and your pets if you aren't willing to take action. Just like, if I had cattle out and someone hit them...It's not their fault (the driver), it's the cattle owner's problem. I feel the same way about a dog. . . Does this make sense?
I'm not complaining about a dog getting hit. :) I feel bad for the dog and for my daughter whom the dog belong to, but the dog was probably chasing a car. Who knows.
That's not my problem. My problem is with people that drive too fast down this road and especially when our kids or the neighbor kids are going back and forth from house to house and people irresponsible behavior with their driving, namely the truck drivers. I know almost every rancher that drives by here and most of them drive pretty slow. But the county rock trucks especially are the world's worst, but other truck drivers do it too. Just because there are no speed limit signs, no cops and just flat road and open space doesn't make it right for them to travel at speeds that you know good and well are unsafe speeds. Does it not say in any Kansas driving booklet that you are not to travel at any speeds greater on any given road that do not allow you to come to a sudden stop safely? And does it not say also to take in road conditions? Another thing you have to look at is driving that fast with big heavy trucks does nothing but tear up the roads. (something of which almost everyone in this county has a gripe about) Driving big heavy trucks too fast down these roads, especially when they're wet makes pot holes. Just because they can doesn't make it right.
Feel bad for the dog? Maybe a little, but that's not what I'm worried about. The dog wants to chase cars and sometimes catches the car? That's the dogs fault. But there are other considerations besides dogs.
I agree. I would never intentionally run over a dog, however...I'm not going to total my pickup trying to avoid one.
The county rock trucks do travel very fast by here too. I've always thought about calling the Road & Weed Dept. to report this but am usually occupied doing something else when it happens. I see the semi trucks fly down Rock and it scares me to death. The semis usually slow down when going by here because there is a curve before the stop sign.
Has your mailbox been vandalized yet? That really gets under my skin! One night we caught the vandals in the act and snuck outside with the spotlight. We couldn't identify them, so they got away.
I feel for you on the situation with the children. I'm not sure that a Children at Play sign would even help. People, I think, would ignore it. Why is everyone in such a hurry these days anyway?
Quote from: CDBL on September 26, 2008, 04:39:04 PM
I agree. I would never intentionally run over a dog, however...I'm not going to total my pickup trying to avoid one.
The county rock trucks do travel very fast by here too. I've always thought about calling the Road & Weed Dept. to report this but am usually occupied doing something else when it happens. I see the semi trucks fly down Rock and it scares me to death. The semis usually slow down when going by here because there is a curve before the stop sign.
Has your mailbox been vandalized yet? That really gets under my skin! One night we caught the vandals in the act and snuck outside with the spotlight. We couldn't identify them, so they got away.
I feel for you on the situation with the children. I'm not sure that a Children at Play sign would even help. People, I think, would ignore it. Why is everyone in such a hurry these days anyway?
No. It hasn't been vandalized yet, but I suspect it will be now that I've been jumping up and down on my soap box. LOL We have had people try to come up here in the middle of the night though. My husband is always up till all hours of the night and the dogs bark. One night a truck went down the road and shut off their lights shortly after passing our house. My husband heard them shut off the motor and the truck door shut quietly. Then he heard them walking up this way. What they were planning to do I don't know, but they scattered after he walked outside and pumped the shot gun. Guess they weren't expecting that. This was like 1:30 in the morning. He called for them to say who they were, but all he heard was running and the truck start and speed off. Someone up to no good.
I agree. I would never intentionally hit someone's dog and I've slowed down many times for dogs and I hate it when they chase the car cause I'm always afraid they'll get hit by one of the tires. I'll be the first to admit that a couple of our dogs are PITA's! They lay in the road and i have no clue why they do that. I'm planning on putting up fence on the south side of our house so I can stop them from going under the barb wire. Then they'll be totally fenced in. If Steve ever gets my lawn mower fixed I'll be able to cut the grass and put up fence over there. We had a pulley go bad and it's a VERY old mower and it took forever to find a pulley. Finally found one and it's $86 just for the pulley. Ouch!
You know, folks, these people who are speeding down these country roads are the same people that I was referring to in an earlier post when I was talking about an overdeveloped sense of entitlement...they have the horsepower under the hood to go that fast, ergo they are entitled to go that fast. God forbid they should spare a thought for anyone else's welfare other than their own. It is this sense of "me first" that led to our current financial debaucle in this country.
Quote from: Catwoman on September 26, 2008, 04:50:31 PM
You know, folks, these people who are speeding down these country roads are the same people that I was referring to in an earlier post when I was talking about an overdeveloped sense of entitlement...they have the horsepower under the hood to go that fast, ergo they are entitled to go that fast. God forbid they should spare a thought for anyone else's welfare other than their own. It is this sense of "me first" that led to our current financial debaucle in this country.
That's true and you find that everywhere. We had a woman at Wal-Mart in Augusta turn right in front of us, I almost hit her, just because a car was backing out of a space and she wanted to get there before we did. LOL I wasn't even after that space, but she almost got her pretty little car dented to get it.
I've had a few times of coming up over a hill out here and have a big truck coming too fast from the other way and taking up the whole road about wreck the truck trying to get over fast enough. Ooops. I think because their truck is big they just feel they can do whatever they wish. I don't know.
Well, I hate to poke a sleeping dog by bringing up this subject, but I have noticed that SUV drivers are particularly bad about the speeding issue. What's funny is, I have never seen a Highway Patrol Officer ever pull one over...it's almost as if, because they can't see inside the things to ascertain whether or not there's a gun involved, they're afraid to pull them over. Now, before I get hoard of people yelling at me over my observation, let me assure you all that some of my 'very bestest friends' are SUV drivers...and yes, they speed, too. I agree with your supposition that it might be the size of the vehicle that makes them feel like they're allowed to speed in that manner.
Quote from: greatguns on September 26, 2008, 03:17:04 PM
Whew! I didn't realize we were talking about how to make money by suing the socks off somebody. I thought we were discussing the safety of children. I didn't say you should run over the children. I still do believe you should teach them to walk at the edge of the road and to face oncoming traffic as they do. After what happened to the two girls in OK., I don't know that you should let your children walk down any country roadfor a fourth or a half of mile anyway. So Steve you might sue and get you some money , but that wouldn't bring back a precious child.
Apparantly the people were talking about do not care anything about the kids enough to slow down. The only thing people listen to now days is being sued. if suing the people driving or even the county for not putting up signs or doign what is necessary to
slow these people down then It is a step in the right direction.
There is a problem and its not kids. Its irresponsible adults.
Applause to those drivers that are slowing down!! THANK YOU!!!
I don't think anyone was suggesting suiing someone for a good return on anything. Rather, I believe their intent was to ensure that should a child be injured, or god-forbid, killed, that that driver would be punished sufficiently both criminally and financially.
Quote from: jerry wagner on September 26, 2008, 08:18:52 PM
I don't think anyone was suggesting suiing someone for a good return on anything. Rather, I believe their intent was to ensure that should a child be injured, or god-forbid, killed, that that driver would be punished sufficiently both criminally and financially.
Very true. :)
I don't know about the SUV drivers. We don't have any that go by. LOL
I do know that the whole time we've lived out here I've only seen a policeman out here like 3 times and one time was to pick me and my kids up to take us home because we got a flat 7 miles from the house. ;D
Optimism:
I wish Elk County would do something that will promote a new industry or just a job. One job would add one person to the ranks of not driving out of town to work. It might mean that one person would move to the area for that one job. That would be one less abandoned house. One more taxpaying citizen would be one more mile of road graveled. One job would probably mean one or more students in the school system. One more mouth to feed at lunch. One more hamburger sold a day at Toots... Two more loafers....down at Lannings complaining about how these out of towners are taking over the entire county.
Reality....... One more idiot with no job will bring in one more needs to be abandoned trailer. Set it up with out skirting. Not mow around it for years while thinking about building a house that can't be afforded. Place their three not entirely sure who the other parents is children into school just so they can get free or reduced lunches. Never make them go to school and expect the school to raise them. Take too long desiding on a home, home turns disfuntional. Get divorced. Loose the dream home. File for bankruptcy. Get thrown in jail for domestic battery. Become a further burden to society. Property sits uncared for while the sentence is being served. Local druggies us it as a cook shack, burn it to the ground, have no place for the children to reside, they become wards of the state and then are sent off to some foster care in western Kansas. Property sits waiting for the tax sale, mortgage waits for the bailout, idiot waits for the next president, and the skirting is still on sale at the lumberyard.
Sounds like you fully understand the American Way. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: pepelect on September 27, 2008, 07:28:34 PM
Optimism:
I wish Elk County would do something that will promote a new industry or just a job. One job would add one person to the ranks of not driving out of town to work. It might mean that one person would move to the area for that one job. That would be one less abandoned house. One more taxpaying citizen would be one more mile of road graveled. One job would probably mean one or more students in the school system. One more mouth to feed at lunch. One more hamburger sold a day at Toots... Two more loafers....down at Lannings complaining about how these out of towners are taking over the entire county.
Reality....... One more idiot with no job will bring in one more needs to be abandoned trailer. Set it up with out skirting. Not mow around it for years while thinking about building a house that can't be afforded. Place their three not entirely sure who the other parents is children into school just so they can get free or reduced lunches. Never make them go to school and expect the school to raise them. Take too long desiding on a home, home turns disfuntional. Get divorced. Loose the dream home. File for bankruptcy. Get thrown in jail for domestic battery. Become a further burden to society. Property sits uncared for while the sentence is being served. Local druggies us it as a cook shack, burn it to the ground, have no place for the children to reside, they become wards of the state and then are sent off to some foster care in western Kansas. Property sits waiting for the tax sale, mortgage waits for the bailout, idiot waits for the next president, and the skirting is still on sale at the lumberyard.
But if you want more people to move out here, unless they're going to move into town, then you have to have water. ;D
No water, no people. Most people aren't too fond of the idea of having to haul it.
This subject should be change to "Elk County Should"
I see alot of discussion about the roads. Here is an "IDEA"
County Cant afford to fix roads.
Sherrif writes tickets
People pay tickets
County Can afford to fix roads
But then on the other hand if the sherriff rights tickets He wont be elected again, cause he did his job.
Quote from: pepelect on September 22, 2008, 08:11:49 PM
You might have grown up on gravel roads but not Elk County gravel. We have some of the hardest rock in the nation. This is why there are federal and state spec quarries on all sides of the county. The rock is harder, sharper and more plentiful than is the high plains or swamp. Flint already told you about the crappie rock crusher harshness makes gravel from is a cheap layer of $7 a ton stuff.
Buy a bigger vehicle with larger tires that have more tread on the ground. I ran, used to, run trashhauler recaps that are 14 ply tires, worked really well and have no problems with the rock.
The faster you drive the less time you spend on the road. Just put the petal on the right down a foot or two and you will get to your destination before the tires go flat. Quit buying cheap tires. I drive 90% of the roads in Elk County and rarely have a flat..... that Bill can't fix. Besides tires are cheap. What's a few hundred dollars compared to the hundreds of thousands that we spend each year graveling the ditches.
Greenwood county spends more on tires than our entire gravel budget. That would be like comparing a Yugo to a Freightliner. Larger county, more population, better road crews, and they have their own sets of problems. I have been on some pretty poor GW county roads.
If the rancher is paying taxes just like any other land owner why should the road be closed so the trip to the cattle is four miles farther? If you start closing roads you loose your federal and state cost share per mile of road. Yes, it is stupid to spend so much time on untraveled roads but look how bad they can screw up the ones that are heavily traveled.
I think the new management will either fix or at least identify the maintenance problem. He has been on the job less than a month. Give him a chance to screw up before waxing with broad strokes.
Never had a problem with bf goodrich oem tires
Quote from: Tobina on September 25, 2008, 11:13:09 AM
YES, I think there are "children at play" signs that you can buy and post. I see them around different areas, and also in towns. You might want to ask the county, but I think you can buy them somewhere if they don't have any.
Why would you want the city to waste their, I mean our taxes dollars on signs. Park at any intersection in town, and count how many cars go through it some like its not even there. The County would be the richest in the state if the local law wrote tickets everytime it happened, The county could multiply the funds available 10 fold in the first month alone.
Sarah, I still think "children playing" signs would help. I think I know where you live, and I drive that road occasionally. When coming from the South, your place is a little hidden behind the trees and unless you know/remember where it is, it really comes up on you fast. For those cattle truck drivers (or any drivers) who might not drive the roads often enough, I think it would help them realize there are children in that area. Also, since your house sits so close to the road and you have out-building so close to it, some might not realize there's actually a house there until right upon it. They might be watching the other house across the road and down a bit and never even realize your location at all.
And I hope you get your fence fixed soon, too... I always am scared about hitting your dogs (and sometimes chickens). I would feel HORRIBLE.
NOTE TO EVERYONE... we are coming upon a busy time of the year in rural Elk County. Out-of-towners who are hunting in our area. Things to remember... #1) They bring in big $$$ to our county, so be nice (and wave!). #2) They are from out of town, so they don't realize some of our "unspoken" rules, so cut them slack. #3) They are not accustomed to driving gravel roads, so watch out for them (and they're probably gawking at fields, etc, so don't expect them to watch out for you). #4) They will only be here for a short time, so bear with it. #5) With all the extra traffic in the area, keep a watchful eye on you and your neighbors; this might be a time when other people might take advantage of "country folk".
QuoteNOTE TO EVERYONE... we are coming upon a busy time of the year in rural Elk County. Out-of-towners who are hunting in our area. Things to remember... #1) They bring in big $$$ to our county, so be nice (and wave!). #2) They are from out of town, so they don't realize some of our "unspoken" rules, so cut them slack. #3) They are not accustomed to driving gravel roads, so watch out for them (and they're probably gawking at fields, etc, so don't expect them to watch out for you). #4) They will only be here for a short time, so bear with it. #5) With all the extra traffic in the area, keep a watchful eye on you and your neighbors; this might be a time when other people might take advantage of "country folkquot".
Lol, you better keep an eye on your livestock too. 2 years some gomer shot one of my horses, luckily it just grazed her butt. City people bought the place next to us :P My horses are not very far from my house, I don't go out in huntin season very far from the house without somthin red on :P
If some one tries to "take advantage" of the country folk, just shoot 'em and swear you thought it was the famous Elk County Creeper.
Quote#2) They are from out of town, so they don't realize some of our "unspoken" rules, so cut them slack.
EEKS! We're from out of town too....but we live here now. Can you all longtimers let us newbies in on these "unspoken" rules? Is that why townsfolk sometimes give me funny looks, or is it because I really am funny-looking? LOL
Quote from: indygal on September 29, 2008, 02:14:48 PM
EEKS! We're from out of town too....but we live here now. Can you all longtimers let us newbies in on these "unspoken" rules? Is that why townsfolk sometimes give me funny looks, or is it because I really am funny-looking? LOL
if that is Terrell talking.. I have to say... (http://www.cascity.com/howard/forum/uhhh.gif) yep.. you nailed it on the head.. :D :D :D :D :D
But if it is Indygal herself.. I will be nice and say.................well............................... I will be nice and say.............uhhhh....
(http://www.cascity.com/howard/animations/ummm.gif) (((thinking...what CAN I say.......)))
(http://www.cascity.com/howard/animations/shucks.gif).. I just can't bring myself to be nice.. so I will be quiet..
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj216/marshalette/laughing-5.gif)
Well, I was thinking about people running around where they shouldn't be and abandonded places. If we get too used to strange vehicles running around, we might not notice those who are up to no good.
And some of the unspoken rules for city-slickers are... 1) Wave (less than 5 fingers makes you look like you belong... middle finger is unacceptable). 2) If you see a vehicle smaller than yours, move over for them so they don't have to try and straddle the wall of dirt. 3) Don't stop to gawk at the bottom of a hill. 4) Everyone out here (except you) makes a living driving these roads. Respect our way of life and our way of going.
QuoteEEKS! We're from out of town too....but we live here now.
To all the NEW out-of-towners, you're a long-timer. :D
To the long-timers, you'll always be a newbie. :D :D
Since you're caught in the middle - make up your own rules! ! ! ;D ;D ;D
Oh my, you mean there is rules! :o :o :o :o ;D ;D ;D ;D
Well, sometimes I do forget to wave, but I'm getting better at it. I almost always wave with all five fingers in the air, but they're all being polite and friendly! LOL
Teresa, it is me ... Indygal... saying those things so you'll just have to hush. My mama always said if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all. Your mama must have taught you the same .... ;D ;)
Tobina, you'll never catch me gawking at the bottom of a hill. Why would anyone do that, anyway? Do people really do that? ???
Mom, I like your advice and will give you all the credit whenever someone calls me out for making up my own rules..... :D
No gawking at the bottom of the hills. If you stop to talk, being neighborly, stop at the top of the hill or on the flat away from corners. Keep your eyes on the road when the Sedgwackers start shooting the deer start jumping.
Send anyone with a price tag hanging from their blaze orange cap to the snipe hunt on road 32 east of Blodgett.....
You know you have gone from newbie to old timer if you catch your self waving after dark.
If you see any dancing lights off in the distance getting closer and closer it is not UFO's it is just a couple of coonhunter with new fancy hat bill lights they got for Christmas.
Don't wear red on your horse. Wear Blaze Orange......
Lead Follow Or just get out of the way.
Yes there are rulz................PEP RULZ
Only road hunt with the rifle hanging out the passenger side window.......Fish and Game are every where.
Don't shoot the robo deer.
Keep you poached animals in a locked toolbox. But make sure you silicone the holes shut..... Blood running down the running boards is a dead give away.
Democrat season ends the first week in November so get your limit quickly....
Do not leave their pelts just laying around have some respect. They are already stinking up the place.
Wind towers are not a good target to site in the new hardware.....but I hear there are some chicken running loose south of Piedmont.
Oh! (slaps forehead)....OK. Now I understand what was meant about the gawking thing. I read Tobina's comment as "Don't stand at the top of the hill and gawk at the bottom of it" ....not "Don't park at the bottom of the hill and gawk at stuff." This is a perfect example of the misunderstandings that can happen if you don't read something the way it was intended. Sorry, Tobina...not picking on you at all here....in fact, I'm relieved Elk County folks aren't really gawking at the bottoms of hills! Had me worried for a minute.....LOL
Ha Ha ha! Too funny, Indygal! See, you're becoming a native already! At least you didn't ask what gawking was... and ask if you can use it around your leaky tub.
Oh, the 5 finger wave isn't really rural-cool. See, the point is that you keep "some" fingers on the steering wheel, and wave with the rest. Thus allowing the free hand to work the manual shifter... or keep hold of all the stuff in your passenger's seat as you swerve into the ditch... just kidding. ALTHOUGH, if you've mastered the wrist-steer, you can feel free to use the 5 finger wave.
I do not understand the 5 finger wave. Humans have 4 fingers and a thumb. Am I missing something or what?
Maude and Maxine.
Nit-picky! ;D ;D ;D
OK, so I'll call it the "full hand wave".
Maybe it is a five-digit wave?
Or you could call it the phalange waggle? ;D ;D
phalanges? Then ya could even wave yer toeies! :laugh:
Hubby is missing a forefinger on one hand; therefore he gets some strange reactions when he does the two finger wave! For awhile he couldn't figure it out that folks who did not know him thought he was giving the one finger salute! Hahahaha! ;D ;D
Are all drivers getting stupider along highway 99? Is our vision failing? Can someone stop the bleeding from my wallet.....
:police: Explain why after having a school for 29 years at the same location on the same high way in the same town we need a flashing light? Where is the history of accidents? Where are all the crosses for the dearly departed? Of those that did wreck at the south high school entrance, I bet the party pulling out on the highway was probably at fault more than the other way around. What is next rumble strips south of the river bridge? I know a stop light. Two stop lights....One at Twlight with a left turn only then make the truck route go down Washington, turn on to Wabash, Turn on to Elk and then turn back on to the highway. Northbound we will have a left turn only stoplight at Elk Street forcing traffic west until Wabash, then turning them back east on Washington.
This plan is perfect. You get to tour the day care, south park pool area, all the down town business, oggle the new park improvements and highlight the carwash.
Couldn't we fix the intersection at 99/400 before we waste money on imaginary traffic?
How about making the wide load/over sized load road through Moline passible with a wide load/over sized load? If we are going to send the long and oversized loads down a road shouldn't the road be able to handle the traffic?
I know this is a KDOT issue but we have not started a KDOT wish thread......yet.
Right on Pep! I often watch out my kitchen or dining room window as they stop all the traffic ---again--- to see-saw one of those large tanks around the sharp 90 degree corner. Then we can load up, go down to the curve on the way out of town to see if they make it around without slipping off the paving and putting another dent on that garage down there. I bet those folks have nearly paid off their mortgage collecting off the damage done to that garage by those trucks going around that curve. ;D ;D
Just wait until Daughter #1 starts driving, and then you'll be GLAD there are caution lights at the high school, PEP. This is a LONG TIME coming. I think WE is the only school around that doesn't have flashing lights and school signs, and I think it's VERY dangerous. We're lucky that there hasn't been more serious accidents. People coming from the South, around the curve, might not realize there is a school there, and like I've said before... Hwy 99 doesn't exactly have a slow speed limit through town.
Also, in reading the school board minutes in the paper a couple weeks ago, something about annexing the school into Howard and the school board wouldn't agree until KDOT put up the caution lights.
There are ways to spend money smartly; and one more way to protect our kids is never a bad way to spend money.
And what's so wrong about re-routing traffic through our town? I don't see a billboard for Family Market on 99 that's just driving new business off the highway and down the main street. Am I buying too many boxes of Grapenuts that you don't need any new non-local business? ( :P :angel: Just playing devil's advocate to get Peppy pepped up.)
I do agree about the curve in Moline, too... Elk County is never going to be a good way to get anywhere with curves like that in the roads. How the heck are they going to bring in our huge wind towers?
Here in Topeka we have 4 schools that do not have the flashing lights when school lets out. Three of the schools are right in Topeka, the largest one is Topeka High and it is just 5 blocks from downtown. They do have the crosswalks with flashing lights. We have 3 schools in the county that do not have flashing lights anywhere
I have to agree with Pep on putting a sign at 99/400, at least a flashing caution light.
Out of Towner.
Wow, that surprises me; especially for Topeka! Somehow I must just drive through all the towns that have the flashing lights and the speed limit changes to 20 mph during certain hours. Talk about creeping down the street! Not sure they need the 20 mph on Hwy 99, but glad they're getting the flashing lights to alert drivers there is a school there, anyway. Heck, even Remington has the flashing light out on the main highway, and their school is 1/4 mile down a side road!
We have driven across this great country of our many times, and I'm telling you that the flashing school signs/lights are a wonderful thing. Many small towns and even larger ones do not have a speed slow enough to stop an 18 wheeler - nor a pickup truck towing a 32" fifth wheel, if suddenly there is another vehicle or a child on a bike appear from the school area. The lives of all are more than worth the few minutes it takes to "creep" through a school safety zone.
Daughter #1 will be driving a 2 ton bullet proof flat bed pickup with big ass tires and a cool radio. Grill guards, Nerf bars, bale spikes, and of course it will shake the ground before you even see her so stay out of the way. We have a deal with Zimmerman, no insurance, and we send all the bodies to him.
Those in small town schools need flashing light because they have students walking to and from school...Who walks down the highway? If they do they are a target. We have a fine district funded less hazardous access road that enters at Elk Street. Is that annexed to the city also? We should build sidewalks and lighting so if it is dark they will not get scared of the evil doers. What is the point of the stop sign north of the bus pickup/drop off? Why doesn't the access road have to stop not the buses as they have just pull out from the curb. Do we have a new brake salesman that needs to meet quota? Why don't we put a video camera facing south from the new dumpster hider/storage room on the southeast corner of the school and monitor the student vehicular activity. That way when some perfect athlete's mother will have something to look at when they tell her why the wrecker was called.
Why did we have to annex the school yard but not the school? Which department is responsible to the fire calls from the school city or county?
I do have to say, I think it is a good thing. I have called the sheriff's office a time or two, about this side road from the high school. I have a fenced in yard at the daycare. Elk street runs in front of it, and everyday you can tell when school lets out. They spin around the corner at Elk and Olive. It upsets me, because you can't tell when I young child is going to try to out run you. I think anything to slow them down.
How about portable cameras that photograph speeders' license plates? We also have portable signs that show you your speed as you pass by. The police will monitor those areas for a time after the signs have been up. If things improve, the signs are moved elsewhere.
Speed bumps is about the least expensive, and longest lasting solution.
I agree, but I hate 'em! especially during the winter.
I hate 'em too, but they certainly do the trick! ;)
Quote from: Diane Amberg on October 02, 2008, 11:05:30 AM
How about portable cameras that photograph speeders' license plates? We also have portable signs that show you your speed as you pass by. The police will monitor those areas for a time after the signs have been up. If things improve, the signs are moved elsewhere.
Its unconstitutional. The constitution guarantees you the right to a trial and to face your accuser and question your
accuser. The photograph and speed trap machine can't answer questions.
Plus
Those radars are inaccurate. They are beat eveyr day in a court.
It isn't unconstitutional, just less reliable as a witness, however, some state courts have disagreed. But I must point to the fact that if you stole from a store, and were videotaped in the process, there is a good chance that you will be found guilty, so why excuse someone speeding on camera?
Also, it is interesting that as a person interested in protecting the rights of others you will protect the rights of a speeder, who is caught on videotape speeding, however, would you defend someone's right to burn the flag as an expression of speech?
Would you protect the right to choose?
Would you protect the right to be Mirandized, despite the fact that many conservative justices have scaled it back over the past 10 years?
Good points Jerry, there is ONE way to avoid being caught speeding on video----just do not speed. Now I have certainly had my share of speeding tickets and mostly knew I was speeding when it happened, but did not try to weasle out of the ticket. Sometimes it was awfully hard though! ;)
Quote from: jerry wagner on October 02, 2008, 05:05:18 PM
Also, it is interesting that as a person interested in protecting the rights of others you will protect the rights of a speeder, who is caught on videotape speeding, however, would you defend someone's right to burn the flag as an expression of speech?
I don't believe anyone has the right to burn the flag. Its not protected in the constitution.
QuoteWould you protect the right to choose?
Choose what, murder?? I would protect the right of the unborn to live over anyone elses rights. When the parents create that life, they give up their rights.
Flag Burning
Finally, the Court addressed the highly emotional issue of flag burning. In Texas vs Johnson, it reversed Gregory Johnson's conviction for burning an American flag during the 1984 Republican National Convention. The Court concluded that the flag burning was "speech" and again determined that the flag desecration statute was aimed at the communicative impact of Johnson's message. The Court noted, however, that speech-neutral laws, such as those applicable to public burning generally, might be constitutionally applied against flag burners. The next term the Court again confronted the flag burning issue, this time to consider the constitutionality of the Federal Flag Protection Act of 1989, passed by a Congress unhappy with the Court's decision in Johnson. The Court again ruled for the protester, a man who set fire to a flag on the steps of the U. S. Capitol, finding that the act was an attempt to suppress unpopular speech. The Court's decisions in the flag burning cases has led to numerous attempts to pass a constitutional amendment authorizing punishment of flag burning and mutilation, but so far the proposed amendment has fallen short of the two-thirds support necessary in the Senate.
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/flagburning.htm
TEXAS v. JOHNSON
SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES
491 U.S. 397
June 21, 1989, Decided
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/texasvjohnson.html
Just don't burn one in front of me if you know what is good for you.
David
Quote from: dnalexander on October 02, 2008, 05:37:29 PM
Just don't burn one in front of me if you know what is good for you.
David
Thank You! :D LOL Same here.
Could we just reroute 99 down Washington and back up Adams? That way, passersby get to see our business district, but are not driving all the way down Wabash. Having lived about four blocks from Kellogg in Wichita the past seven years, I don't relish the idea of lving with "highway" traffic/noise. We came here for some peace and quiet, doggone it! LOL
Quote from: srkruzich on October 02, 2008, 06:01:36 PM
Quote from: dnalexander on October 02, 2008, 05:37:29 PM
Just don't burn one in front of me if you know what is good for you.
David
Thank You! :D LOL Same here.
LOL, the guy would get off for flag burning and I would go to jail for assault and battery!!
Quote from: DanCookson on October 03, 2008, 08:33:36 AM
Quote from: srkruzich on October 02, 2008, 06:01:36 PM
Quote from: dnalexander on October 02, 2008, 05:37:29 PM
Just don't burn one in front of me if you know what is good for you.
David
Thank You! :D LOL Same here.
LOL, the guy would get off for flag burning and I would go to jail for assault and battery!!
Back in north Georgia, they have a circuit judge that travels around to all the northern counties.
When folks come up in front of him for assault charges concerning beating the stuff out of a flag burner, he
fines the person who assaults 1 dollar fine, and 1 dollar punative damages and gives 1 hour jail time. :)
The reason he does the fines is to stop the "flag burner" from bringing civil suit.
Sounds like a judge with no power to legislate from the bench, controlling the punishments to legislate from the bench. ;)
Bad judge. Assault victim would win in a civil suit due to the criminal conviction. Still wrong to burn the flag.
David
The last I knew burning the flag was the proper way to dispose of it. Has that changed since I learned that in school? It was a looooooooong time ago.
Unless it has changed, that was the last thing that my dad taught me. However, I believe this argument centers around burning the flag as a statement of protest.
Okay, just wanted to make sure it was okay under the right conditions before someone saw me and decided to hurt me. ;) ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: greatguns on October 04, 2008, 08:37:48 PM
Okay, just wanted to make sure it was okay under the right conditions before someone saw me and decided to hurt me. ;) ;D ;D ;D
There is a proper proceedure and ceremony for the disposal of old flags. Burning it in public is NOT the proper way.
The American Legion in Moline host a flag retirement ceremony every so often. It is quite touching to witness the ceremony that honors what a little bit of cloth and some dye represent to this country. I usually have a full sack of flags to add to the barrel, as I not only have the flags that were flown over Dons' grave, but I visit the dumpster at the cemetary after Memorial Day and rescue all the flags that have been discarded there. I am certain that I have a reputation of being a bit 'tetched' for going through the dumpster and taking out the flags and reusable flowers. I clean the flowers and donate them to the church so the soldiers' graves can be decorated the following year. We have soldiers that go back to the civil war in that cemetary, and all should be honored every year.
As an aside, there is an old military grave on the east side of the cemetary that is home to some rather large lizards. I often drive through there just to witness those guys basking on the tops of the fallen tombstones. They are as much a part of that cemetary as any of my familys' graves.
Wow! More interesting road grading has been going on! I'm really starting to see the changes in the roads! No, not miracles, but every little hole that doesn't return when it rains again is one less I hit with my car!
And note to anyone who doesn't drive the county roads often (and even those who do)... watch out for the loose gravel and soft sides. Once everyone starts to drive on the now-wider roads, the edges will harden back up, but just be careful in the meantime!
I can remember driving those roads...caution is the best defense until the roads stabilize.
I wish elk county would....
Buy all the power we can from the wind farms that are going to built here.
Eat beef grown in Elk county.
Eat pork grown in Elk county.
Never eat chicken. no matter where it is grown as yard bird is bad and will always be bad. One exception Prairie Chicken.
Advertise elk county. Why do we have people coming from as far away as Florida or Georgia to hunt or fish here and no one knows it? Where is the giant come to Branson sign for Elk Co? There isn't even a sign to get you off 400 highway.
Build a rock quarry. I would like to see how much it would take to build and process our own stone. Competition is a beautiful thing if you have no competition you have no reason to do a better job. We have one of the greatest rock strata's in the state but only one or two producers. We have two fairs.
Have one fair...At Moline....in 2009.
Quote from: pepelect on October 10, 2008, 07:59:42 PM
Eat beef grown in Elk county.
Eat pork grown in Elk county.
Both are bad for your health! I'm not allowed to eat either anymore....
QuoteNever eat chicken. no matter where it is grown as yard bird is bad and will always be bad. One exception Prairie Chicken.
Chicken is gooood, especially fried up in buttermilk batter, or barbq'd over hickory logs! mmmmm
Quote from: Tobina on October 09, 2008, 04:49:50 PM
Wow! More interesting road grading has been going on! I'm really starting to see the changes in the roads! No, not miracles, but every little hole that doesn't return when it rains again is one less I hit with my car!
And note to anyone who doesn't drive the county roads often (and even those who do)... watch out for the loose gravel and soft sides. Once everyone starts to drive on the now-wider roads, the edges will harden back up, but just be careful in the meantime!
Uhmmm rock road is still a pit. :P I got high centered yesterday. My tires sank down into the muck in the road trail and the center of my truck sat right down on solid ground.
I am kind of offended by the remark that Elk County Beef and Pork is bad for you. You might not be able to eat it, but I know that our beef and alot of the people in Elk couny feel the same, is much better than what you buy at a store. My husband and I are so used to our own beef that we really try not to buy any other places. I have also eaten Elk County Pork. Please tell me that you mean that it is bad for you. Because it's not bad for our family!!!
I wish elk county would listen to their doctors. Elk county Beef and pork are not bad for anyone. W store meat would kill a turkey buzzard. No doctor that is worth his weight in script pads tells you you can't have anything. What they say is that if you change your eating habits you will improve your health. They don't tell you that you can't eat anything that is good. They say to eat in moderation. You may not be able to have the porterhouse but I bet a fillet would not put you in the emergency room. Increase you outputs before you increase you inputs. Simple physics. Tyson Chicken crap in then chicken crap out.
I think it is a conspiracy between the tofu and veggie groups paying off doctors to get more old skinny grumpy people in the world. It is started by the Chinese to sell smaller clothes so they make more per bolt of fabric.
Beer is bad for you in excess but I bet that I can find a empty bottle on your place. Or a still? Are your moonshine skills up to par?
Why would you eat chicken when pork is so much cheaper per pound? If you raise a chicken it will give you a few dozen eggs and then assuming you are not out of fresh buttermilk, one fine fried chicken meal. If you were to raise one pig you could eat for months. Throw in some bovine and you could eat for the better part of a year. It might help your attitude as well. Poultry eating causes lower vertebra discomfort from all the pecking for feed.
Quote from: srkruzich on October 16, 2008, 03:43:18 PM
Uhmmm rock road is still a pit. :P I got high centered yesterday. My tires sank down into the muck in the road trail and the center of my truck sat right down on solid ground.
If you would slow down you could see the muddy parts of the road before you get to them. I would suggest getting rid of what ever you are driving now and get a mountain bike. Then you would only have to deal with one track of the road and you would save on tires. Half as many tires on the road means half the costs. Need to get to town quickly just peddle faster.
Chicken.......Why would you eat something that eats stuff that comes out of the back side of a cow?
Quote from: pepelect on October 16, 2008, 08:40:49 PM
I wish elk county would listen to their doctors. Elk county Beef and pork are not bad for anyone. W store meat would kill a turkey buzzard. No doctor that is worth his weight in script pads tells you you can't have anything. What they say is that if you change your eating habits you will improve your health. They don't tell you that you can't eat anything that is good. They say to eat in moderation. You may not be able to have the porterhouse but I bet a fillet would not put you in the emergency room. Increase you outputs before you increase you inputs. Simple physics. Tyson Chicken crap in then chicken crap out.
Well i agree tyson chicken is crap. I don't eat tyson chicken. :)
QuoteBeer is bad for you in excess but I bet that I can find a empty bottle on your place. Or a still? Are your moonshine skills up to par?
Nope you would lose that bet, i don't have beer here :) My skills are a bit rusty :) but i still remember how to make a good batch of apple jack or kentucky bourbon.
QuoteWhy would you eat chicken when pork is so much cheaper per pound?
Chickens will make me money from eggs and when they are past their prime in egg laying make me a fine meal. Their eggs more than pays for their feed. So i eat chicken for free.
QuoteIf you raise a chicken it will give you a few dozen eggs and then assuming you are not out of fresh buttermilk, one fine fried chicken meal. If you were to raise one pig you could eat for months.
Maybe, but then i have to contend with the cholesterol out of that pig.
QuoteThrow in some bovine and you could eat for the better part of a year.
Shrug honestly i haven't had a good steak or pound of hambuger anywhere in years. Last good steak i had you could cut it with a fork. That was in 1988. Haven't found anyone that can grow a good beef that tender since my grandpa died.
QuoteIf you would slow down you could see the muddy parts of the road before you get to them. I would suggest getting rid of what ever you are driving now and get a mountain bike. Then you would only have to deal with one track of the road and you would save on tires. Half as many tires on the road means half the costs. Need to get to town quickly just peddle faster.
If i had been going fast, i wouldnt' have gotten stuck now would i!
QuoteChicken.......Why would you eat something that eats stuff that comes out of the back side of a cow?
Maybe your chickens do, but mine don't ;)
[/quote]
;D ;D
Now THAT was entertaining..
Thanks you 2... :D
Have you eaten a steak from true home grown Elk county beef since then?? I don't think so. I know that our steaks are GREAT!! All Corn feed, with hay from our own pasture ground in the corn. I do know a guy who used to butcher our steaks that were AMAZING!! We now take the cattle to Grenola to Family Market and they butcher them. I have also bought ground pork from a really nice person who does do the butchering themselves! The best meat ever!! I can use it in Hamburger recipes or make my own sausage. No fat in it!! Best Pork chops around!!! So nice and thick!! Not any fat in this meat!!
We do raise chickens, too!! We haven't butchered any and don't plan on it. My husband loves his beef and that is what we eat alot!! No Walmart meat!!! If we buy meat we buy it at Family Market!!!
Maybe I need to cook you a good pork chop or steak of ours and you will see that Elk County Beef and Pork producers are the best around!!! I do the grilling at our house!! Jeff tries, but bless his heart!! I am just to good!!! ;) ;) Just ask him when you see him if he would prefer his beef or pork to any other, and he would agree with me!! He better!! No he would!!
OK... I'm going to agree with Angie on this one. Growing up in Elk County, all of the beef I ate was raised by Ernie Small, and THAT was the best I have ever had. I don't eat a steak now, that I don't compare it with what we got from Ernie... and there is NO comparison. Elk County beef and pork really is the best!
Quote from: Dale Smith on October 18, 2008, 11:24:13 AM
OK... I'm going to agree with Angie on this one. Growing up in Elk County, all of the beef I ate was raised by Ernie Small, and THAT was the best I have ever had. I don't eat a steak now, that I don't compare it with what we got from Ernie... and there is NO comparison. Elk County beef and pork really is the best!
LOL well i compare every steak i ever eat to the ones my grandpa used to grow.
He would milk feed a calf to 6 months and then grain and milk for an additional 6-8 months. mmmmmm
I think Angie meant that she takes her cattle to Grenola to Family TREE Meats (not Family Market).
I just got 1/2 a hog from our local hog farm and took it to Grenola to be butchered, and it turned out very well. One thing to note is that since 1988, the genetics of both cattle and hogs have changed dramatically. Hogs went from fat to lean (and tough), and now they're lean and much more tender. Cattle and beef will be different every animal that you get, due to the huge variations in genetics. Unfortunately, the store beef is just purchased for the low price and not the genetics, tenderness, and taste. We get our beef from my dad in NW KS, and I would eat chicken before buying beef from the store.
Yes, I can see that if you're used to eating milk-fed beef, then it would be much more tender than what's out there today. Very few people do that specialized feeding technique (unless it's veal). People don't realize that beef is even more un-forgiveable than any other meat; the genetics and feeding really affect the taste and tenderness of the beef. As well as the slaughter techniques, too. And then let someone cook it who isn't used to cooking that type of cut, and it can be ruined quite easily.
The biggest injustice on beef in the last 2 years was when Applebee's advertised their New York Strip Steak... and it was a SIRLOIN! I could never figure that out. The only thing I could think of was that "New York Strip" was not an official USDA cut, so they could call a Sirloin whatever they wanted. VERY misleading, and unfortunate for the industry. Trying to sell a low-grade cut with a high-grade name; talk about disappointed customers.
Not sure where the county thread turned into beef/pork/chicken?
Back to point... 2" of rain didn't really help matters at all. Pop quiz: When you have a hole in the ground, what do you fill it with?
Tobina, I am going to be picky and ask you, How do you take half a hog to the butcher? Forgive me.
Wilma, I was wondering the same thing myself---- front half or back half!! LOL!
Back I'm guessing
No I think it was one side.
My 1/2 hog is still at Family Tree hanging out. Haha. It will be ready Saturday. He went in whole. 1/2 is ours, the other 1/2 goes to Billy's parents.
We have a cow butchered each year and it's more than enough meat for the three of us. We also have deer and turkey. Ground turkey is bland so it's just used in chili and tacos and things with a lot of seasoning. I think our beef is delicious. You can definitely taste the difference between home-raised and store-bought. Sorry Family Market!
:P Yes, they're in sides and we split the hog with someone else. I should have stated 1/2 pork, as "pork" is the meat and "hog" is the live animal. "Beef" is the meat, and "cattle/steer/cow" is the animal.
To elaborate on the beef thing, the AGE of the animal also determines the flavor and tenderness of the beef, as well. Cows and Bulls vs. Steers and Heifers.
We have a steer butchered. Billy would shake his head at me had he known I typed cow.
He had a bull with a broken leg a few years ago and shot it. I asked him why we couldn't have it butchered and he gave me "the look" and told me bulls aren't good meat. He'd really only make hamburger.
I also got "the look" when we got our first rooster. I innocently asked if roosters laid eggs too. :-[
And you can't raise chicks with out a rooster!!!! :laugh:
Quote from: Wilma on October 20, 2008, 10:16:37 AM
Tobina, I am going to be picky and ask you, How do you take half a hog to the butcher? Forgive me.
LOL gee you beat me to that question.
Quote from: CDBL on October 20, 2008, 12:48:53 PM
My 1/2 hog is still at Family Tree hanging out. Haha. It will be ready Saturday. He went in whole. 1/2 is ours, the other 1/2 goes to Billy's parents.
We have a cow butchered each year and it's more than enough meat for the three of us. We also have deer and turkey. Ground turkey is bland so it's just used in chili and tacos and things with a lot of seasoning. I think our beef is delicious. You can definitely taste the difference between home-raised and store-bought. Sorry Family Market!
How much did it cost for the butcher and processing.
Quote from: CDBL on October 20, 2008, 12:48:53 PM
My 1/2 hog is still at Family Tree hanging out. Haha. It will be ready Saturday. He went in whole. 1/2 is ours, the other 1/2 goes to Billy's parents.
We have a cow butchered each year and it's more than enough meat for the three of us. We also have deer and turkey. Ground turkey is bland so it's just used in chili and tacos and things with a lot of seasoning. I think our beef is delicious. You can definitely taste the difference between home-raised and store-bought. Sorry Family Market!
I'm thinking of raising turkeys for ground meats and sausages this coming year. Plus take biggest ones and use for
turkey dinners.
Probably smoke some too MMmmmm
Well i may have a few goats for the freezer this coming year too. I am hoping i get twins off of widget my alpine
goat. My lamacha Amazon i don't know if she got bred yet. She's a bit young.
QuoteI'm thinking of raising turkeys for ground meats and sausages this coming year. Plus take biggest ones and use for
turkey dinners.
Probably smoke some too MMmmmm
I raised some kickass turkeys when we lived in Severy still. The bronze turkeys, the one we smoked for thanksgiving weighed like 25 pounds dressed. I want to get some more when I get a varmint proof pen for chickens and turkeys.
We fed out a hog last winter and butchered it ourselves, it was good too.
Pam, when my folks were first married, they lived in your neck of the woods. They used to tell about a young couple who would get a flock of turkeys and herd them around the local farms to eat grasshoppers. They had a horse and wagon and of course some dogs to keep the flock together and safe. They spent the summer fattening those birds with all the local hoppers. At the end of the first season they had enough profit to make a down payment on a piece of ground to start themselves a farm. I thought that was pretty ingenous! ;D
Quote from: sixdogsmom on October 20, 2008, 04:45:26 PM
Pam, when my folks were first married, they lived in your neck of the woods. They used to tell about a young couple who would get a flock of turkeys and herd them around the local farms to eat grasshoppers. They had a horse and wagon and of course some dogs to keep the flock together and safe. They spent the summer fattening those birds with all the local hoppers. At the end of the first season they had enough profit to make a down payment on a piece of ground to start themselves a farm. I thought that was pretty ingenous! ;D
That's a good story SDM :) Good ol american do-itiveness !
I don't know the processing cost on beef at FT, but our 1/2 pork cost us about $10 more in processing than the hog itself! Also depends on which type of cuts and special cutting orders you want. I wanted 1/4 lb hamburger-size sausage patties along with the breakfast patty size and also ground sausage. I can't remember if they charged me more for that or not. They do charge a bacon smoking fee. I hope the bacon is smoked better than last time, though... the last bacon only lasted about 3 months in the freezer and then went bad (very hog-smelling/tasting). I just don't think they got a long enough smoke on it. The rest of the pork lasted very well in the freezer, though. They say that pork shouldn't be kept longer than 6 months, but we ate it almost up to 12 months and it all was fine.
Man my grandad used to make the BEST bacon and hams......he cured em himself upstairs, used sugarcure....good stuff maynard
My dad tried ONCE (thank GOD) to "cure" his own hams - Mom took the syringe AWAY from him!!!!!
I haven't had a good ham or bacon slab in years. Grandpa used to do his own and we hung the hams and the bacon over the kitchen sink. They didn't need refridgeration.
But the last absolute best ham i have had was in 1992 i think when i got a talmadge farm salt cured ham. Mmmmmmm Slice off
a few slices of ham the night before, soak them in water and next morning fry them up along with biscuits, eggs, and put some pepper, coffee, in the drippings and cook em til their all mixed together and use that red eye gravy over the biscuits. Then mash up some blackstrap molasses and real buttermilk butter and smear that on biscuits MMMMmmmm
What is buttermilk butter?
Quote from: Wilma on October 21, 2008, 05:55:26 PM
What is buttermilk butter?
Uhm you let your milk and cream ferment into buttermilk and then churn it :)
Once you pull the butter out, you have a lot of good buttermilk and the butter has a buttermilk flavor mMMmmmm
Wilma I have to applaud you. You seem to be on a quest for knowledge in many places on the forum. With the vim, vigor, and inquisitiveness of an kid on caffeine.
David
I never used milk. I used cream and what was left after the butter was made was buttermilk. How can you churn buttermilk that already has all the fat out of it, into more butter? I think we have two definitions of buttermilk here.
Quote from: Wilma on October 21, 2008, 07:09:46 PM
I never used milk. I used cream and what was left after the butter was made was buttermilk. How can you churn buttermilk that already has all the fat out of it, into more butter? I think we have two definitions of buttermilk here.
Uhmm
Take fresh milk with cream in it and churn it thats sweet cream butter. Buttermilk is fermented milk. You take
your milk with cream throw it in a jar and add buttermilk culture to it and let it ferment. Then after 12 hours you churn it and
you get buttermilk butter and buttermilk.
Hmmmm... this sounds complicated. When I was a kid, in Howard, we got our milk from my grandparent's cow, in Sedan. My Mom would skim the cream off the top, and we churned that into butter. What was left after the butter was taken out, was buttermilk, and that was used for coating the chicken that was going to be fried, or for other types of baking.
Quote from: Dale Smith on October 22, 2008, 03:54:22 AM
Hmmmm... this sounds complicated. When I was a kid, in Howard, we got our milk from my grandparent's cow, in Sedan. My Mom would skim the cream off the top, and we churned that into butter. What was left after the butter was taken out, was buttermilk, and that was used for coating the chicken that was going to be fried, or for other types of baking.
That's the way I remember granma doin it too...I always felt like big stuff if she let me churn lol
I can remember my mom getting raw cream to cook with...it bears no resemblence to the weak stuff they sell as cream these days. Mom would put fresh cream and sugar on our oatmeal...sure made that awful stuff way more palatable! lol
Quote from: Catwoman on October 22, 2008, 06:19:42 PM
I can remember my mom getting raw cream to cook with...it bears no resemblence to the weak stuff they sell as cream these days. Mom would put fresh cream and sugar on our oatmeal...sure made that awful stuff way more palatable! lol
Amen to that! I used to love to put the raw cream on my cereal. Once I moved to the big city, and started using milk, it just seemed so watery. LOL As much real cream, and real butter that we used, it's a wonder I'm not bigger than I am.
Ahhh real cream and real butter. I follow the Julie Childs theory here. It tastes better. The French have been doing it for years and on a whole they are thinner than Americans. I would rather have ice cream made with eggs, milk, cream, and sugar over the reduced fat|sugar versions. I eat way less ice cream but I find it more satisfying than eating the other stuff all the time.
David
Steve, you asked what we paid for our pork....The hog was $147 - that's for the WHOLE hog, not half. Can't remember the weight on it, I threw the paper away that had everything written on it. We won't know what the processing cost us at Family Tree until we pick up our meat on Saturday. I can post it then if you'd like to know.
While I'm on this topic - I noticed the county has mowed the ditches on the east-west roads with a bush hog. It looks so nice, and you can actually see at some of the intersections now!!
Quote from: CDBL on October 23, 2008, 02:53:50 PM
Steve, you asked what we paid for our pork....The hog was $147 - that's for the WHOLE hog, not half. Can't remember the weight on it, I threw the paper away that had everything written on it. We won't know what the processing cost us at Family Tree until we pick up our meat on Saturday. I can post it then if you'd like to know.
While I'm on this topic - I noticed the county has mowed the ditches on the east-west roads with a bush hog. It looks so nice, and you can actually see at some of the intersections now!!
I was just trying to see what its going to cost. I thought about getting me some piglets for 30 a piece and raising them
but shoot it would cost me about 200 at least to feed them to a 250 lb weight for butcher. :(
We considered that as well, but one of Billy's friends decided to raise a few. So, we went that route.
I couldn't butcher anything that I had closely raised and named. ( and I name everything that is remotely within petting distance.. ) :laugh:
That is why I have Mike Beller just pick me out a good hog and I go from there.
No name.. no bonding...no relationship.. no commitments.. no...................oppps............... :o I forgot..
we are talking about pork here, not men.
sorry.. :-[
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj216/marshalette/swine.gif)
Pigs? Men? There's a difference???? :angel: :angel: :angel:
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Some people just need a good porking..........
How far south do you want to go with this.........Stuff your own sausage......is there an R rated thread.....to be continued...