****This thread was created and split from the OBAMA/REV WRIGHT thread in the Politics section by Teresa H.****Quote from: angtown3 on March 18, 2008, 02:15:17 PM
I agree with you too, Flo. I am an American. Do you ever hear many Native Americans crying over their land being taken from them, or that they are put on Reservations. I am sure there are some out there, but you don't hardly ever hear them complaining, well at least I haven't.
I don't want to flame this issue, but in response to this comment... Native Americans aren't crying b/c they get a monthly check from the government. Not saying I agree or disagree... just saying.
A lot of Indians do get checks they do not work for, but this is one Indian descendant that receives nothing. That is because my Indian ancestor refused to live on Indian land at the time that they were being registered and so his name didn't get into the registry. So my grandpa never received Indian money, neither did my mother and neither do I. I am not complaining because I have never done anything to earn it. I do accept my Indian ancestry and am proud of it.
Same here, but I don't grudge the ones who do cause they got it comin if anybody does. The ones that still live on the rez ain't exactly livin high on the hog
I agree. If anyone should get some money back from the government.. it is the Native Americans.. even if they're 4 generation...
They got the raw end of the deal from the white man..
We give it to the illegal Mexicans and they didn't or haven't done squat in America.
>:(
>:( sorry, Teresa, I have to disagree with you on that post. Severyal illegal mexicans have SQUATTED, right here in mid-way USA ;D ;D ;D
All right, everybody that agrees with Teresa that even 4th generation Native Americans should get a stipend can send me a dollar. Oh, no, I am 5th generation. Forget it.
You know what I mean.. ::) ;D ;D ;D
Life Expectancy is 48 years for men and 52 years for women.
Unemployment is estimated to be 87%
90% live below the Federal poverty level.
The teenage suicide rate is 3 1/2 times higher than the national average.
Infant mortality is five times higher than the national average
Diabetes, heart disease, cancer and malnutrition are epidemic.
That's on the reservations in South Dakota but it's pretty representative I think
Since the Native American issues were coming up in the Obama-rama thread.. I will start it here..
( Don't want to insult the Indians with being on the thread with Hillary or Obama.. ;D)
You may or may not agree with my opinion.. ( guess that is why the opinion is mine.. duhhh) ::)
but....................
the Native Americans DO have my sympathy's and my respect. I have heard tons and tons on both sides of the coins..
I have heard the people bitch and moan cause they have the rights of the casino market in some of the states.. ( Hell the Mafia have it in Vegas.. why not the Indians here? LOL)
.. Plus all kinds of negative things about them.
Makes me so mad.
When we were in Tombstone Arizona.. we had the opportunity to read and look at the history of the section of Indians in that area.. and believe me.. I cried real tears when I looked at the pictures.. and read about the degrading and disrespectful way that they as people, their heritage, their spiritual beliefs and their lifestyle was treated and looked upon.
I can honestly say that it made me ashamed to be white. And I walked away sick to my stomach.
I also feel the same way when I read about slavery and the degrading way that the white man was allowed to treat blacks.
Disgusted doesn't come close to what I feel.
But....................
Do I think that just because someone in this day and age should be treated differently because of their Color or Heritage from what happened a century or 2 ago ? No.
I think that everyone should be responsible for their selves and the works that they do now .. Good or bad.. it is the here and now. the past is the past. Can we have sympathy and empathy for what was? Of course and we do.. but let it go and do the best you can today. Quit moaning and groaning about the way the ancestors were treated 150 years ago and take responsibility for yourselves now.
Opinions?
I agree...it's too late to go back and undo the things that were done. The truth of the matter is you'd be hard pressed to find any race of people that weren't enslaved or persecuted by sombody, including white people. I've studied native americans and their(and my) history since I was a kid, and they had it goin on before the europeans landed here. " Before our white brothers arrived to make us civilized men,
we didn't have any kind of prison. Because of this, we had no delinquents.
Without a prison, there can be no delinquents.
We had no locks nor keys and therefore among us there were no thieves.
When someone was so poor that he couldn't afford a horse, a tent or a blanket,
he would, in that case, receive it all as a gift.
We were too uncivilized to give great importance to private property.
We didn't know any kind of money and consequently, the value of a human being
was not determined by his wealth.
We had no written laws laid down, no lawyers, no politicians,
therefore we were not able to cheat and swindle one another.
We were really in bad shape before the white men arrived and I don't know
how to explain how we were able to manage without these fundamental things
that (so they tell us) are so necessary for a civilized society."
John (Fire) Lame Deer
Sioux Lakota - 1903-1976
Most of the natives I know are really tryin to make a difference and bring back the ways that were lost in the bad old days. Tryin to bring their time around again and move forward while keepin the past with them. As for people bein pissed about the casinos, they were almost as mad when the big oil fields were found on indian land lol. Karma, gotta love it:)
Teresa, many, if not most, of the Native Americans live very well and do very well. We have lived in NE Oklahoma and do now, which is home to many of the tribes and many Native Americans. Many if not most of the Native Americans here have good jobs, do very well. They are Teachers, Doctors, Lawyers, Business People, Farmers and Ranchers and very hard working citizens. When I started with Phillips Petroleum company 40 years ago the Chairman of the Board and Cheif Excutive Officer of Phillips was also the Principal Chief of the Cherokee Nation. I think the Indians that have stayed on the reservation to live on Government Programs do the worst and have it the worst. It is the same for the Native Americans as it is for all Americans "OPPORTUNITY IS OUTTHERE YOU HAVE TO GO FOR it , NOONE IS GOING TO GIVE IT TO YOU".
Frank Winn
That is what I meant Frank when I said that no matter what happened in the past.. no matter how horrible.. you have to pull yourself up and over it and take advantage of the opportunities of THIS day and age. And they're out there. It might take extra work on some peoples part.. but the fact is.. the past can be overcome..
Even though I am saddened by the past treatment of people.. I don't think there is any room "in this day and age" to whine about
you should give me THIS job and THIS Benefit cause my ancestors were slaves.
I did a paper at Wichita State on the "Osage Indian Murders". While researching for articles on the murders through the Wichita Eagle and Wichita Beacon, I found newspaper items on how the Osage Indians sold their lands to oil men for the oil that was found on Indian lands. There was only two books written about the murders and you can find the full investigation of the FBI on the internet. The money was paid into the Bureau of Indian Affairs who paid out an allowance to the tribe. The Osage was one of the poorest of the Native American until the discovery of oil on their lands. Many didn't know how the handle their money. They would go out and buy a car to drive it until it would break down or run out of gas then they would go and buy another leaving the first car where it stop.
Alcohol problems are high too.
yeah.. the white men knew this too back "in the day"..
They ( native Americans) have something in their systems that does not work with alcohol.
I have read about it before, but I can't remember what it is..
Can you help out Diane?
I heard a guy talkin about this once. He was talkin about how alchohol (wine) was used in the whites religious ceremonies and it was poison to the natives, and how tobacco was sacred to the natives and it was poison to the whites. He thought it was strange. Dad told me once that's why I shouldn't drink, too much Irish and too much indian lol.
Quote from: karmablvr on March 28, 2008, 07:19:02 AM
. Dad told me once that's why I shouldn't drink, too much Irish and too much indian lol.
(http://www.cascity.com/howard/animations/89.gif)
Teresa, I don't know a lot about the alcohol problems. When we went to Chichen Iitza, the guide said that native peoples have always had fermented drinks such as pulque, but it was used at ceremonies and such mostly by the priests. There seems to be some thought that there is a genetic connection that causes the alcohol absorption rate to be faster and stronger but I don't know if it was ever proved.
Quote from: Teresa on March 28, 2008, 09:07:51 AM
Quote from: karmablvr on March 28, 2008, 07:19:02 AM
. Dad told me once that's why I shouldn't drink, too much Irish and too much indian lol.
(http://www.cascity.com/howard/animations/89.gif)
::) :angel: ;D
Want some Kickapoo joy juice?
>:( >:( >:(
Whoa. Hold on here. I did NOT start this post! I'm not sure how my reply to the POLITICS thread on Obama got put into the Coffee Shop as it's own post!?!? I did not intend on a seperate debate on this at all. My comments were in regards to the political discussion going on about racism in the race for president. And how some people think that the candidates are using race to help them gain ground and to make people think they "deserve" something.
Please put this back into the Political category. I do not wish to be the "started by" person on this thread, either, as my comments were aimed at the Obama thread where I originally responded.
I split the thread Tobina.
It was going way off topic and I thought it was a good subject by itself. ( which is obviously the case .. as we have a wonderful discussion on it. )
Separate debates happen all the time in threads and to have them all lumped together as a tossed salad loses the originality of the intended subject. That is my job to keep the forum as user friendly as possible. Obama is political, and if it had only been one post, I would have left it.. ..
the direction of the thread changed to another topic of discussion.Native Americans ( which is not political... therefore I split and moved.