Elk County Forum

Just out of curiosity what do y"all think of the NAIS (National animal id system) up there?

Good post, Pam Karmablvr - and there is a forum member that is pretty well in the know about this and She will probably have some good debate on the subject.  Personally I don't know enough about it. ???

I have quite a bit of information on it..as I have been following it off and on.. ( anything with politics and the governments corruptness I have instant information from underground alerts.) . and this is a biggy..
Too bad most people are not taking it as serious as they should.

Without getting to tied up in time here ( as Kjell has given me a load to do today *while Mason is napping* ) I can say that the idea behind it is simply to run the small rancher out of business so that big corporation will be all thats left and have total control of the the livestock market.
And Yea.. I have lots of fact to back it up.  :police:

That's the opinion of most people that know anything about it! We're fightin it down here. NOT a good idea at all. I started hearin about it bout 4 or 5 years ago talkin to modern homesteaders and it set my antennas to tinglin kinda like when they wanted everybody to put a chip in their kids "just in case they get lost". We gotta stop stuff like this. Like Barney Fife says NIP it NIP it in the bud!lol

I agree totally.  I really need to be following it better, haven't seen much news on it lately in the magazines that we get.  I will tell you my opinion and I don't like it.  We have cattle and not awhole lot.  We are the small farms that Teresa was talking about.  One thing, last thing that I knew, I don't think that we could afford the stuff the Id them.  Things might have change, but I don't know about you, but don't they really already track them from the feed lot to the sale and sale to market?  I would think that you should have a paper trail whos cattle went where from the sale barn.  I know that the auctioneers know whos cattle is whos without Electronic Ids.  They know where they sold them to and from there I would think that they could be tracked.  Am I thinking wrong?  I might not know alot about the sale barn part and stuff, but just from what, little I do know I would think that you could track them.  I know that for 4-H in Elk County, we do Electronic tagging now and started it last year.  I just worry about farmers that aren't really big, like us.  We take a hit and keep on going every year.  But I will be honest, it's the gas price that worries me more at the moment.  Do you know how much we spend a year on fuel in just feeding cattle?  And Jeff custom hays, but not sure if we can truly afford to do that at all.  Which then again, it is part of our income.  Ok, I am off on another subject I'd better go.

there are a few people I've heard that talk about it bein a safety net for the feedlots. Most of the sickness happens when the cows are crowded up in the feedlot but if they are tagged the feedlot can escape responsibility if somethin happens by layin it on the farm the cows originally came from which sounds likely but I don't know if it's gospel or not yet. But it's totally bogus, even if you just have a few chickens and a hog or cow to butcher for yourself, once it becomes mandatory you'll have to register your place and the stock and notify the government everytime you butcher a chicken or somthin gets one or be slapped with a huge fine. They've started the "voluntary" part in missouri but people are tryin to stop it before it becomes mandatory. Needless to say I ain't registered nothin and I'm not goin to :P

Quote from: karmablvr on March 27, 2008, 01:12:38 PM
Needless to say I ain't registered nothin and I'm not goin to :P

Well you little heathin' rebel you!   ;D ;D ;D

 :angel: :P ;D

Well, I did not know that.  I am registared because of our 4-H projects, at least I think we are.  Do you know anything about this?  We just took a cow to get butchered and did not tell anyone, but of course the locker.  But you know none of the other animals but the 4-H ones ever had tags like that.  And we sold him last year at the farm, but we are getting other livestock for 4-H and they will be registared that way.  Does that mean we are to be registaring our other herds?  I don't know that much about them, but don't think it is the same.  They were doing this for a test to get the free wand.  But I don't want to do this. We don't sell anything unless its healthy anyways.  The government, they get you coming and going.  We need Tobina to chime in here, I need her help about this one. :-\ :-\ :-\

Far as I know right now you just have to keep records of when where and what you did with it since it's still "voluntary". It will be when and if they make it mandatory that the other stuff kicks in

Oh, man the thought of that really scares me.  I don't like to have to report all that to the government.  That sucks, before long we will be charged taxes on our cattle!!! :-[ :-[

I have a question? Exactly what is this NAIS program for and what does it involve other than making some folks foam at the mouth? Is this so mad cow disease can be avoided? Just curious as I don't know anything about the cattle world except steaks on the grill and milk in the jug.  ;D ;D

Yeah, the protection of "the national herd" is the reason they are usin. Actually the big corporate producers are behind it. It'll make it easier for them to eliminate the competition ie small farmers

How would that affect the small operator?

cost and red tape is what I've been told.

I don't know for sure but I think to get the tags and equipment that is needed to do this cost $ :'(.  I know from my husband that our small operation barely makes it every year.  Why do we do it then you might ask?  It's in my husbands blood.  With the cost of everything else going up, it hurts everyone.  But I do think that many small operations run a very efficient operations with little funds.  I know that we do.  What little money we do make every year on the cattle are put back into the cattle in some way, feed, vet cost, spraying of weeds in pastures and things like that.  The red tape, I think, is so that the government can have a hold on where everything!! >:( >:(  Am I right??

I know that we need to know where are beef comes from, I understand that.  But a big percentage of the 'Mad Cow' disease comes from the bigger operations, I think.  I am just guessing on this part.  But I have to say, that if small cattle operations don't keep a better eye on their cattle, they won't have any.  If you get any type of disease in your herd, there is always a chance of spreading, and you can't afford to lose a bunch of cattle.  So, if you don't keep a better eye on them, your operation is up in smoke fast!!

Please tell me if I am close!! :D

I just heard that "they" won't have to tell us where contaminated meat went once it is found. Is there anything to that?

Mad Cow disease is very disturbing since it jumped species and can affect humans. I think that is the worry and rightly so. Has anyone seen the results of Mad Cow disease on those folks in England? What a horrible way to die, and if red tape will prevent it from coming to fruition in this country, then I am for it.

Okay.. it is almost midnight.. but I have a bit of time before I go to bed so I will bore the hell out of you and give you a ton of information on several areas of this.
And this information is accurate. ( much to the governments dismay)
I may ramble so bear with me. .............. 8)
There is more to our cattle and beef industry and also our overseas meat that is shipped in every single day that we eat and don't know WHERE it comes from that you can imagine.
Not only mad cow.. but hoof and mouth and other horrible stuff is going on that the government wants us NOT to know.. although even knowing..not much we can do about it if Big Brother has their way.
Let me share some information about a lot of stuff I have:
This won't be in my own words, but I am just sharing with you as I got it.
And it IS accurate..even though some might think that "Noooo that can't be.. our government would never do this and put the United States people at risk."
I say "HA... Our government doesn't give a flying fat flip about the people.. Only about power..control..and money ..and more power for the "government".

Now that I've said that ..and you all HAVE opened up this can of worms.. be prepared to have this become a HUGE thread.
Remember.. you ask for it.. LOL  ;D ;D

I will break down in sections ..or try to.. part of the information I have. I won't bore you with all of it,, but I'll share enough to give you that good old sick to your stomach feeling...
And some people want to know WHY the coming days scares me to death..... sighhhhhhhhhhhhh

Remember .. in the food industry.. The United States imports a huge amount of our food surplus..
Our own farmers could easily supply the US.. but they are not allowed to do that. we ship out and then have to import in..
(total insanity)
If you are really interested in what is REALLY going on.. take your time and read all that I am going to post to you. Some of it is detailed, but it is information I wish the whole world would open their eyes and take the time to read and know what is happening. ( some won't believe it, but to each his own)
It will open your eyes and scare you senseless.

I will leave out names if they are personal e-mails to me.:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I've just gotten this from the UK. 
Both USA and Canada 2008 Production Figures indicate over-supplies of available market hogs, too many sows being killed, and significantly higher feed costs equating to projected losses of $30.00 or more per head, combined with increased levels of death losses due to circo-viruses in our breeding herds...the situation for UK producers is even worse, but to make matters even more worrying, DEFRA has just recently announced that they will not test their swine herds for MRSA or other Porcine Circovirus-related diseases, which could have possibly originated from imported, infected breeding animals from the UK, which had come from there several years ago!

To top it off, the UK's most recent Foot and Mouth outbreak occurred in August, 2007, with an almost simultaneous outbreak of Bluetongue Serotype 8, which we've never seen in the USA; to date, Bovine TB is rampant all over the UK.

Here we have our own USDA only opening our doors to both meat and live animals,  but backdating its own ban, to boot!

I'd like to know just who these traitors in USDA are that cut this deal?
First, they approved the sale of Swift and Co to the Brazilians, the BSE/Canadian deals, then wanting to allow increased imports of Argentinian beef, shipped chicken to China, re-processing there and sending it back to the USA, without forcing the Chinese to match our Food Security Standards.

The EU has now banned all Brazilian beef, but no, not the USDA!   They want a new cattle port to receive Mexican-raised cattle, too!

As these events unfold, as you well can attest in your efforts to have the Packers and Stockyards Act made functional again,  it seems to me that our own worst enemy is certain USDA officials.   Something is DRASTICALLY WRONG!

Doesn't say much for Biosecurity, but then that keeps the USDA and Homeland Security boys and girls busy, doesn't it?

This has got to be stopped!
Read this!~~~

US lifts ban on UK meat

Published: (01-02-2008)
The US has eased restrictions on the UK pig industry, imposed following the Foot and Mouth Disease outbreak.
A ban placed on the whole of the UK has now been lifted, with the exception of meat from Surrey, following re-evaluation of the situation by the U.S. Department of Agriculture's Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service.

The news has been welcomed by the UK pig industry as the US has not only lifted the ban, but it has backdated its decision to August last year.
Defra is now working on the relevant export health certificates and the first batch will be available in the next few days, including those for pig meat and breeding stock.

BPEX chief executive Mick Sloyan said: "This is wonderful news and is thanks to the tremendous hard work of Defra, the Foreign Office and the US Department of Agriculture.

"The backdating is also a vote of confidence in the safety and quality of British pigs and pork. I hope other countries will have similar confidence as negotiations take place to open or re-open markets in the coming months.
"That work is continuing and is being supported by a major BPEX/Defra programme in place to re-establish markets we lost because of the disease outbreak."
The news is particularly welcome for a pig industry which is facing increasing hardship. MTJ is now campaigning to Save The British Pig Industry and is calling on the UK retail sector to raise the prices paid to British pig farmers.

Regards
Pat Gardiner

(article to back it up)
http://www.meatinfo.co.uk/articles/56527/US-lifts-ban-on-UK-meat.aspx

Top 10 Reasons to Oppose NAIS' Premises Registration

Fighting for the U.S. Cattle Producer"

For Immediate Release                                                                Contact: Shae Dodson, Communications Coordinator
February 8, 2008                                                                      Phone:  406-672-8969; e-mail: sdodson@r-calfusa.com


Omaha, Neb. 
"I'm very excited that our Animal ID panelists will have the opportunity to educate cattle producers on all the problems with NAIS," said R-CALF USA Animal ID Committee Chair Kenny Fox. "Education is the key to fighting this battle, and each one of the speakers on our panel has helped us greatly in our fight. We hope everyone who's worried about USDA's efforts on this front will join us for the discussion at 1 p.m. CST on Thursday, Feb. 21."

"Judith McGeary, with the Texas-based Freedom Farm and Ranch Alliance helped us write resolutions to oppose premises registration that our members across the country have submitted to their county commissioners," Fox said.
" John Carter, with the Australia Beef Association has given us lots of information on the Australian animal identification program and how it's not working over there and the hardships it's caused producers.
And Roger McEowen, the director of the Iowa State University Center for Agricultural Law and Taxation.has written articles that point out potential constitutional problems with premises registration. He's a very well respected ag law professor, and that carries a lot of weight with our state legislatures when you pass out something he wrote.

"R-CALF's Animal ID Committee has numerous active committee members from all over the U.S., and the wealth of ideas that springs from this group is amazing," he continued. "Some committee members are from states where mandatory Animal ID has already been implemented, and they've helped us tremendously to watch out for all the pitfalls they've experienced with these questionable mandates."


Below is a "Top 10" list in opposition to premises registration, compiled by R-CALF USA's Animal ID Committee:

Registering a premises with the Federal government without receiving just compensation constitutes a voluntary surrender of any constitutional rights – right of property and freedom from unreasonable governmental searches – associated with registered premises.

Registering a premises with the Federal government without receiving just compensation constitutes a voluntary submission to any invasion of private property rights and government intrusion into private business operations associated registered premises. 

Registering a premises without entering into a contract that expressly limits the Federal government's authority over the premises may result in subjecting the premises and its registrant to any and all future rules, regulations and policies that the Federal government may later decide to impose on such registrants.

Registering a premises under the guise of protecting against the spread of Foreign Animal Diseases effectively gives the Federal government a license to abandon the most effective means of preventing Foreign Animal Diseases in the first place – disallowing imports from disease-affected countries.

Registering a premises without entering into a contract that expressly prohibits the Federal government from allowing access to premises information could subject the registrant to unwanted exposure to other Federal and state agencies and animal rights extremists.

Registering a premises could result in greater legal exposure of cattle producers for events that occur after the registrant's cattle leave the farm or ranch. 

Registering a premises would result in the voluntary inclusion of the registrants' farm, ranch, home, and cattle to a general system of permanent registration of personal property that currently is only applicable to items that could be highly dangerous if misused – automobiles and guns.

A registered premises alone provides no greater disease trace-back potential than simply knowing the owner of the animal or animals in question, unless there is far more to the Federal government's plan than to simply obtain registered premises.

Premises registration is the foundational building block needed by the Federal government to immediately implement a full-scale, mandatory National Animal Identification System (NAIS), with little to no input from cattle producers.

Voluntary premises registration sends a strong signal to the Federal government that U.S. cattle producers give the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) a high approval rating for all the agency's policies and actions that impact U.S. cattle producers – it demonstrates that U.S. cattle producers have the utmost faith and trust in the USDA's past, present and future actions.

Fight NAIS Down to the Last Cowboy: Australia Beef Association



Billings, Mont. – R-CALF USA was fortunate to again have former president of the Australia Beef Association (ABA), John Carter, recently speak at its annual convention about the numerous problems with Australia's mandatory National Livestock Identification System (NLIS). Below is Carter's presentation.



"ABA is R-CALF's sister organisation – we too, represent independent producers in the fight against multinational processors, feeble and corrupt bureaucrats and our sycophantic equivalent of your NCBA (National Cattlemen's Beef Association). I was appalled to buy the Los Angeles Times when I landed in the U.S. and read their headline article on the Chino beef recall. I worked with USDA (U.S. Department of Agriculture) men from 1983 to 1994. Their integrity was admired worldwide. It appears to have gone. There will be a backlash that will help our cause.



Australia, being a desert island in the middle of a huge ocean has the least disease of any continent. Despite this, Australia has had Premises ID for cattle since 1980. We used a paper or plastic wrap-around tail tag that had to be affixed before sale. Around 1990, I got individual animal numbers put on those tags for use in producer carcass quality discovery. It was hardly ever used.



Three years ago I spoke to you in Denver. I advised you not to allow mandatory RFID to be foisted on you because it would be very costly and it wouldn't work. I am back today to tell you that I was right.



In those three years, Australian cattle producers have been the fall guys for the international tag manufacturers. Follow the money. Put your money on self-interest – you always know that it is trying. ABA has no problem with voluntary RFID (radio frequency identification) use. If I were unfortunate enough to own a feedlot, I would use it in many ways to save (from) feeding inefficient cattle.



Mandatory tracing is an entirely different matter.



We have abandoned our efficient mandatory tail tag system for expensive chaos. No other large-producing country has mandated the RFID traceback system. All the reasons given for its introduction are now in tatters. Face-saving and blame have replaced them. Remember an ounce of prevention is worth pounds of cure. Don't let anyone take you down this suicidal path because once you are on it, it will become the unchangeable custom and be used by your packers to discount your cattle. Its administration will cost you a fortune – all for no purpose but to increase tag-manufacturer profit and give jobs to bureaucrats.



In Australia, the tag manufacturers beat us with lies and propaganda. They provided letters to the papers signed by producers who didn't exist amidst a flood of propaganda. At one stage, the rural press did a poll on NLIS acceptance by producers on one of its farm polls on the Internet. On Day Three the poll showed 75 percent of producers voting the NLIS as being hopeless or a failure. About 10 percent were approving. In two hours, this was reversed. Fortunately, ABA had a computer fanatic following the vote and trying to boost the negative vote. We immediately did a press release stating that the poll was being fixed. It was withdrawn and hasn't been attempted since. Investigations showed that hackers had the poll alteration from the database team at MLA (Meat and Livestock Australia) – our Beef Board. We called for a full disclosure. MLA spent $81,000 of OUR MONEY on their auditors investigating, refused to release the results, and did not sack the two hackers. One can only presume that someone above had instructed them. A divisional head noted for his careful work resigned and was appointed as Integrity Officer by the packer organisation.



Reasons that the tag manufacturers used ,with their stooges in Government, the packers and our NCBA equivalent.



Market Access.
In 2003, we were told that we had to have mandatory RFID NLIS because the USA was getting it and we would lose market share to the U.S. in Japan and Korea. The U.S., with no RFID NLIS, is now regaining its market share in Japan and will get back into Korea despite your two cases of BSE. Australian producers are getting 60 percent of your prices. Brazil and Argentina – with no RFID NLIS – send many times Australia's small 6,000-ton quota to Europe.


Customers are demanding it.
This was a farce, as the system cannot trace beyond the packinghouse. Inquiries in Japan showed that no one was asking for it. Our packers claimed that McDonald's required RFID NLIS. Knowing the U.S. situation, I rang the McDonald's purchasing officer in Sydney. She denied ever making such a claim.

Disease control.
The inaccuracy of the system and its slowness has shown that it would be of little use in an outbreak of exotic disease. We are supposed to inform the database of any movement of any cattle off our ranches, including to another pasture. Very few are doing it. NLIS couldn't track a bleeding elephant through a snowfield.

Prevention of stock stealing.
Australia has decided that RFID NLIS is not a legal means of identifying livestock because the tags can be easily cut out and substituted. The recent severe floods in Queensland have seen police and owners rely on the firebrand to identify the thousands of stock on other ranches. However, enthusiastic bureaucrats are demanding the producers put orange RFID tags in the ears of cattle that they have identified as theirs on other ranches before they take them home. An orange tag indicates that the beast has no whole of life accountability and will be discounted by the packers.

Carcass feedback to producers.
Our packinghouses were supposed to supply feedback to the breeder who put his tag in the ear when the beast was sold for the first time. They eventually agreed to give a carcass or a live weight but many are not doing it.


The minute tag number on the outside (readable with glasses) is different to the computer number inside. Australia has been sold inferior tags by the multinationals – they think that we are stupid – I'm afraid that they are right.

It (mandatory livestock identification) hasn't been shown to work in any major beef-producing country. The UK Auditor General's Report on Livestock Tracking released on Nov. 12, 2003, should be compulsory reading for anyone involved. At that time they had 700 bureaucrats chasing 10 million cattle at an annual cost of $60 per head sold with 20 percent missing. The committee concluded that the system was "in complete chaos".

That is a paper trail system. The European Union's (EU's) IDEA trial on RFID had not found RFID to be feasible. Since then we have found the UK lamb RFID trial release (late 2006). They concluded that it would not work as well as the paper trail and would cost the lamb producers so much that they would lose their European markets. This has caused our sheep equivalent of your NCBA to say 'NO – not without a cost-benefit analysis', which we had unsuccessfully demanded of MLA. The sheep people don't seem to like the idea of paying $3 for a tag for a sheep that they may sell for $1.
This doesn't seem unreasonable.

I phoned the Canadian ID Agency on Monday (Feb. 18, 2008). I was told that their system of informing on stock movement is still voluntary and that few producers send in cattle movements to the agency, as they (the producers) are not computer literate! This fact was obvious to 'Blind Freddy' in Australia and was uncovered in the EU trials. You can have the best computer database system in the world but it is garbage in garbage out.

Monumental Failure.
When we began this war in Australia, I said that there were 200,000 who sold cattle every year. MLA and your NCBA equivalent said that there were only 60,000. We now have 160,000 on the database. We have around 27 million cattle in Australia, and the last figure on the database showed many millions unaccounted for.

Two weeks ago, I did an audit of my account on the database. In three years, I have bought 900 tags. They are on the database. I have bought 92 cattle – 79 percent are on my account. I have sold 618 (animals) – 74 percent have been taken off the account. I have had the required carcass weight at abattoir (packer) when killed on 58 percent. I have had fat depths – wildly inaccurate – given on 14 percent. I have had 20 cattle killed on my account that could not have been mine. I have had 22 recorded as deceased on ranch that never died.

I live in one of the better areas with higher stocking rates and a controlled system. I have the equal oldest registered firebrand in Australia (1853). I have tattooed every calf born with that brand since 1955. My experience would be better than most. Linda Hewitt, who addressed you last year and is now in serious floods, with her family runs 15,000 cattle. She has had error notices from the database on thousands of cattle.

We have an international embarrassment on our hands because the tag companies bribed, cajoled and fooled those in power. Those in power refused to do a cost-benefit analysis; they refused to do a trial. They mandated an impossible system and are now lying very low. They have had two small inquiries, which produced what they paid for, but with very heavy qualifications on what needed to change to make it work. No senior bureaucrat, politician or NCBA equivalent will stand up and say that it is a success. They know what any producer who goes into his account knows. It is as the UK Committee said of their system in 2003 – it is 'in complete chaos'.



Fight this one down to the last cowboy. With 900,000 producers in 50 different state legislatures, your bureaucrats have even less chance of making it work than ours have. That isn't the point though – you must stop the transfer of your money to multinational tag manufacturers. Follow the money and don't be fooled as we were. I think that you will win. Good luck and thank you."

Open Letter to the American Horse Council
February 20, 2008
 
The Farm and Ranch Freedom Alliance (FARFA) sent a public email last month alerting people to statements in a recent government document that call for breed registries to implement the National Animal Identification System (NAIS).  We encouraged people to contact their breed registries (1) to find out if they planned to be part of this implementation and (2) to express the members' opposition to being part of NAIS.  Many horse owners acted on this information and contacted their registries.

Based on the government documents, if NAIS becomes mandatory, it will require anyone who owns or manages property with even one horse or other livestock animal to register their home in a federal database and be assigned a permanent premises identification number (PIN).  Next, each animal will be assigned an internationally unique 15-digit animal identification number (AIN) and be tagged, in many cases with electronic identification.  The last step would be to track the animal's movements, particularly any movements that involve  "commingling" (mixing) with other horses or livestock.

The American Horse Council (AHC) took exception to FARFA notifying horse owners of the issue of breed registries potentially implementing NAIS.  AHC sent a letter to breed registries claiming that: "misinformation has been going around regarding the USDA's business plan for the NAIS ....  This seems to be orchestrated in part by a group called the Farm and Ranch Freedom Alliance ...."  The full text of the AHC letter is included at the end of this response.

AHC has not contacted FARFA and their reasons for objecting to the FARFA alert are unclear.  After all, FARFA's alert is based directly on the USDA's published documents.

AHC seems intent on downplaying what the USDA has published in its most recent document.  The USDA's Business Plan to Advance Animal Disease Traceability: Through the Harmonization of State, Federal, and Industry Programs and Convergence with the National Animal Identification System was released on December 19, 2007.  In a table of planned actions and target dates, it states: "initiate use of AIN in breed registry programs," with an "action target date" of March 2008.  (Business Plan, p.52).  AHC's letter instead claims that "the timeline (below) states that USDA plans to initiate these discussions in March 2008."  Since when does "initiate use" of something mean "initiate discussions"?  If AHC is privy to information that has not been made public, it needs to share that information.

Perhaps AHC's objection is the statement in FARFA's alert that USDA plans to use breed associations to force NAIS registrations.  AHC continues to promote the claim that NAIS is voluntary, stating: "As the NAIS is a voluntary program, it is the choice of each breed registry for all livestock species to decide whether they would like to utilize the NAIS options of AIN and PIN, and whether that will be mandatory or voluntary for their specific program."

But while it may be voluntary for a breed registry to decide whether to require NAIS, it is not voluntary for the animal owners who utilize a registry that requires NAIS.  A coercive choice between being forced to participate in a government program to which one objects or having unregistered animals - which can have severe economic consequences - is not truly voluntary. 

AHC has not told horse owners about some of the non-voluntary and coercive measures already being used to force NAIS on people in several states:
Premises registration is mandatory in Wisconsin and Indiana;
Horse owners in New York have reported receiving letters thanking them for registering their property in the NAIS database after having taken their horses for routine Coggins tests;
Premises registration and NAIS-compliant electronic tags are mandatory for cattle in Michigan;
Drought stricken farmers in North Carolina are required to register their farms to obtain hay from the state;
Children in Colorado, North Carolina, and Illinois are required to register in NAIS in order to compete in the state fairs.

In addition, the USDA Business Plan contains several other measures that will affect horse owners that the AHC has failed to mention:
The Business Plan specifically calls for equine organizations and associations to implement NAIS-compliant electronic identification technology by January 2009:
"Implementation of the 840 AIN RFID [Radio Frequency Identification Device] technology by all industry organizations that provide services to horse owners/breeders."   (Business Plan,p.55)  (emphasis added)   
USDA's focus on horses is not limited to just competition horses.  "Horses that, when moved, require either a test for Equine Infectious Anemia or a health certificate, are also included in Tier 1."  (Business Plan, p.2).  That would cover almost every single horse in Texas and many other states.

USDA has plans to expand the requirements for Coggins testing nationwide, to capture more people into NAIS.  "Efforts are underway to develop a USDA national State-Federal cooperative program for the control of EIA that would establish national EIA (Coggins) testing requirements for (a) interstate movement and (b) change of ownership. ... Overall, establishing regulations to require premises registration in association with Coggins testing would substantively increase the number of both premises registered and horses identified."  (Business Plan, p.26-27) This means a national mandatory Coggins, for which horse owners will be required to provide a PIN and AIN.

To our knowledge, AHC has not alerted its organizational or individual members to these provisions of the USDA Business Plan.  Instead, the AHC directs people to the Equine Species Working Group's (ESWG's) website for more information on NAIS.  The ESWG is an advisory group that makes recommendations to the USDA about how NAIS should apply to horses.  The USDA is not bound by any of these recommendations and may choose to disregard any or all of the recommendations.  Moreover, the ESWG website fails to mention these coercive provisions of the USDA Business Plan, what is really happening around the country with NAIS, or the costs of the program.

For more information USDA's documents about horses and NAIS, go to www.farmandranchfreedom.org/content/horses-and-NAIS.

The American Horse Council claims to speak for horse owners across the country.  Yet, rather than inform its members of the contents of the USDA's documents, it attacks a grassroots organization for urging people to find out what their breed registries are planning.  It's time AHC answered some questions from horse owners.

Judith McGeary (horse owner)
Executive Director
Farm and Ranch Freedom Alliance
www.farmandranchfreedom.org
866-687-6452


AHC's Letter to Breed Registries is Copied Below:



To: AHC Member Breed Registries
From: American Horse Council
Date: January 24 2008
Re: Inquiries on Breed Registry Involvement with NAIS

Many of you may have recently received inquiries regarding your breed registries position on and plans for participation in the National Animal Identification System. Misinformation has been going around regarding the USDA's business plan for the NAIS and its plans to work with breed registries to assist in implementing the system. This seems to be orchestrated in part by a group called the Farm and Ranch Freedom Alliance, which calls for people to contact breed registries and ask the following questions:

   1. Do you plan to require members to use the USDA's 15-digit Animal Identification Number (AIN) to enter or maintain animals in your registry?
   2. Do you plan to require members to use the State's or USDA's premises registration system in order to obtain a breed registration number?
   3. Can you please confirm the registry's intentions in writing?

The business plan, titled A Business Plan to Advance Animal Disease Traceability, was released by the USDA as a draft on December 19, 2007. It was developed to explain how USDA plans to continue the development and implementation of a voluntary ID system. It focuses on harmonizing existing animal health programs (both state and Federal regulated and voluntary programs), industry health and marketing programs, and various animal identification techniques.

One of the initiatives within the business plan is to harmonize animal identification programs, which includes working with breed registry and performance recording programs. The information from the business plan regarding this item can be found following this memo, and within the business plan which is available on the NAIS website - http://www.usda.gov/nais

USDA plans to work with breed registries of all involved species (beef, dairy, horses, sheep, and goats) by having USDA staff explain the details associated with the use of a premises identification number (PIN) and an animal identification number (AIN). If a breed registry decides to consider utilizing the PIN or AIN as part of their services and programs, USDA will support them accordingly with proper training/information, etc. The timeline (below) states that USDA plans to initiate these discussions in March 2008.

It is our understanding that USDA plans to contact breed registries following the species priorities that are identified within the business plan, which would start with cattle, the highest identified priority.

The key is that these are simply discussions, not agreements or mandatory initiatives, on how a breed registry might elect to provide an additional service to its members. As the NAIS is a voluntary program, it is the choice of each breed registry for all livestock species to decide whether they would like to utilize the NAIS options of AIN and PIN, and whether that will be mandatory or voluntary for their specific program.

If you choose to respond to some of the inquiries you may receive, you can state your position on the NAIS if you have one, or simply respond with your current status (example -- no we do not require a PIN or AIN). Also reiterate that the NAIS is a voluntary program and that if your registry decided to offer NAIS participation with the use of an AIN, this would be voluntary and advance notice would be provided to horse owners. Additionally, you can direct them to the NAIS website (http://www.usda.gov/nais) and the Equine Species Working Group (ESWG) website (ww.equinespeciesworkinggroup.com) for more information.

***AHC's letter then included pages 28 and 52 from the Business Plan***
***End of copy of AHC letter***


Please forward this letter to every horse owner you know.  It's time that the equine community heard the full story on NAIS!

Sincerely,
Judith McGeary
Farm and Ranch Freedom Alliance
www.farmandranchfreedom.org
866-687-6452

CHIPPING~~~ ::)
"This same technology they want to apply to NAIS will also be applicable to REALID and thus to tracking people and their interactions. Soo... What's your time out of the gate? Late for work?"

And some willing slaves are already signing up to be chipped because it will be *so convenient*.  See a bar-code on your kids forehead so the school can track them better?????????


One of the things the government and proponents of NAIS keep reassuring us is that the RFID chips can only be read close up so our privacy is safe. But here's an interesting article that makes a lie of that:

ZigBeef Offers Ranchers a Long-Distance Cattle Head Count


The long-range RFID system promises to provide ranchers, their commercial interests and rodeos an easier method for tracking their animals, through ZigBee technology.


By Claire Swedberg


Feb. 21, 2008­A new active RFID system is set to help ranchers and rodeos track animals from a distance, as well as measure an animal's movement during a rodeo competition, for instance, when it is difficult to track exactly when a bull came out of its gate, or when it was roped and immobilized. The solution, provided by a startup company called ZigBeef, is being developed to allow cattle ranchers and their financial backers to track each head of cattle on a daily basis. The system became commercially available two weeks ago.


By using a system based on the ZigBee (802.15.4) standard, users can capture an animal's unique ID number with a handheld interrogator from several hundred feet away. In this manner, says John Hassell, ZigBeef's president and CEO, ranchers can keep a much more accurate count of their animals, since the active system makes reading easy enough for ranchers to do so daily. The system is being offered as an alternative to the passive RFID tags approved by the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) for the National Animal Identification System (NAIS).


By next year, Hassell says, the company plans to offer the system with ZigBee mesh capabilities so cattle tags can transmit data from one to another, thereby extending the read range depending on how many cattle are spread throughout the area, with one tag sending data to the next, and ultimately to a reader. [Cloud nets just as I predicted. -WJ] In the meantime, he notes, further research and development must first be conducted. "There are a lot of unique challenges with cattle," Hassell says. "Normally a hop-to-hop environment is stationary," whereas cattle are constantly moving.


Want more information on "chipping"? 

http://nonais.org/index.php/2008/02/23/long-distance-rfid-reading/

Letter I have permission to post:

Editor,

     I am writing in response to USDA undersecretary Bruce Knight's letter Feb 27-08 edition of Western Livestock Reporter. This letter was nothing more or less than government smoke and mirrors, trying to fool producers. You can't seriously think we as producers think the National Animal Identification System (NAIS) is for animal health traceback. We as producers ask for protection against BSE, the USDA opened the borders to over thirty month old cattle. From a country which has an ever increasing BSE problem. The same USDA fails the producers and consumers with incompetent inspections of packing plants. The same USDA pretends to be concerned about an outbreak of foot and mouth disease (FMD), while at the same time you want to open our borders to trade with countries who currently have FMD. To regionalize trade with Argentina would be as ridiculous as thinking FMD would not spread over a county or state line.

     Since it is obvious food safety and animal health are not what NAIS is all about, perhaps you would like to tell us what the true agenda is. While the producers are more concerned with animal health than the USDA is. Tell me why must the USDA pay large sums of money to breed associations, state and local stockmen's associations, state and local fairs, state boards of animal health, and others to prostitute themselves and their members in an attempt to get them to register premises?

     Until you can muster up enough intestinal fortitude to tell us what the true agenda behind NAIS is, your letters are nothing but nonsense. This cowboy has no intentions of putting my neck in your noose. Mr. Knight you could just as well have started your letter out by saying " Trust me, I am with the government, I am here to help."

Sincerely,
Mike Heaton
McKenzie ND

With permission:

When packers loose control of the USDA, mandatory animal I.D. will disappear.

The animal I.D. situation is divided... in these ways.

The packers want animal I.D.  mandated so they can export our genetically superior, delicious, tender beef to meet the demand of foreign countries and the European Union requirement of  "geographical indicators"- trademark.

Packers do not have to pay for animal I.D.  This is in stark contrast to the  cow-calf producer who would be solely saddled with all animal I.D. costs..

The packers enjoy good profits for "Born and raised in America" beef they export. 

Cow-calf producers are price receivers, therefore do not realize any profit sharing benefit from the packers.
The packers have blocked enforcement of Country of Origin Labeling. Why?  They want to import cheap beef from countries that have cheap labor and furthermore government subsidized. Their sharing in the cost of COOL might decrease the profits they enjoy from importing such.

America's cow-calf producers reasons for wanting COOL enforced are twofold: 1) They believe strongly that consumers have the right to know where their beef comes from. 2) They're proud of the beef they produce.
Cow-calf producers are not opposed to packers import of cheap beef, they simply want it labeled as such.  No less demand than the EU's requirement of a geographical indicator.

History has proven that when  disease is found within a producers herd, they quickly alert a veterinarian. After all, that is protecting their livelihood.
The genesis of any notification must come from the person - if you'll pardon the pun - who is "holding herd." All the I.D.'s in the world won't change that.
The more serious problem is state's or federal's ability to respond with vaccine. This, after all, is what's  touted as the reason for mandated I.D.

It's common knowledge that the turn-around time is so lax, our cow-calf producer will most certainly have a mortality on his hands. And those wanting to mandate I.D., have no plan for dealing with mortality.

The tragedy? The exploitation of children for monetary gain. 
How?  USDA grants are based on sign up numbers, so certain entities have found a sneaky way to do so. They force a child to register the property housing their animal. as a requirement for showing their animal at a state fair (As one example.). This increases the enforcers stipend and unjust enrichment.

This matter should stay divided.  Those who want I.D. can  pay for it. Those who don't...will have their time honored brand laws and communications with state vets recognized. 

When  packers loose their control of the USDA, mandatory animal I.D. will disappear.
We can always hope for the best.

Roni Bell Sylvester
P.O. Box 155
La Salle, CO 80645
970-284-6874

Why animal ID is a fraudulent rip-off of livestock producers


http://www.agmates.com/blog/2008/03/10/why-nlis-is-a-fraudulent-rip-off-of-australian-livestock-producers/

I saved the most alarming for the last!!
Read carefully!

FOOD/NAIS:    Feds/States Cracking Down on Home Farming-

NOTE: This from Illinois activist Joyce Morrison, who is also a farmer:
See bottom of page where Minneapolis will not permit gardening for human consumption.


WAKE UP ! ! !

PAY ATTENTION  !   !   !

YOUR NEIGHBORS MAY NEED YOUR HELP      N O W !!!!

If you live in the rural areas or raise your own herbs, vegetables, whatever, you NEED to read this !

The Feds are really busy using the local sheriffs/police to steal & Kill to control the food supply.

This will only take about 2 minutes to read.

Best WIshes,
Bill Keen





2-27-2008..........This now a planned implementation and will be done once all the states are ready.

All domesticated livestock must now be tagged, regardless of whether or not it is legal.
In Michigan, for example, the state and federal governments are systematically eliminating every farm with livestock that are not tagged with an RF-ID. The process is expensive and only the large corporate congressionally owned agri-companies can afford the procedure.
Last week a large dairy farm several miles from my home was euthanatized - about a 1000 head of cattle, and the owner who had court documents prohibiting the act was thrown in jail while his herd was put down by state law enforcement.
A couple of weeks before that it was a gentleman who raised other peoples animals organically for private use in a local
city. His was estimated at 100 head of cattle.
This is a deliberate and illegal destruction of small agri-businesses who cannot comply with the requirement.

By the time the crop measures are implemented the government will control all food production in the US directly.

The livestock issue is happening across the nation as I write and is not in the news. It is being published in local agri-pubs and is expected to peak at a level where the governments (federal/state) are able to implement individual animal control registration of residences with 1 or more livestock ... i.e. a chicken or rabbit, etc.
All the small organic businesses in the meanwhile are being systematically wiped out if they don't cooperate.
Acres USA is full of horror stories.
I can only hope that these initiatives self-destruct financially before this is complete. Your financial information lends credence to this, as well as reports about the bird-flu epidemic botch by the WHO. Acres USA printed a study on the bird-flu epidemic. Their researchers discovered a selenium deficiency in all the collected bird carcasses they tested at locals where a bird-flu epidemic
occurred. They then ran a test study with a test group that received selenium supplementation and a control group that was selenium deficient.

Both groups were exposed to massive quantities of the bird-flu virus for the period of the test.
Only the control group contracted bird-flu.
Also, home gardening is expected to come on the chopping block.
At present only Minneapolis has a law forbidding gardening in the city for human consumption that I am aware of. Supposedly because of high lead content in the soil - not a legitimate reason for such action or so I am told.

It is happening! And it is VERY alarming.

This is a good website for several areas of becoming self sufficient ...
We very well may need to be thinking about these ways of doing things in the days to come.

www.go-self-sufficient.com


I am done for now.. . :)
Are you sorry you ask for information? I hope not.
I sincerely hope that a few of you read this and it gives you something to think about. feel free to copy and paste it in emails if you think others need to know the truth  of what is going on.

Amendment to Block Animal ID—
How They Voted


In May 2006 the House of Representatives voted on the 2007 Farm Bill amendment authored by Texas Representative Ron Paul to block funding for the USDA's National Animal Identification System (NAIS).
Only 34 Representatives voted "yes" to block NAIS funding.
Those 34 enlightened Representatives are on the farmer and ranchers side on this issue.  The remainder must be either educated or voted out of office.

Alabama
Aderholt—no
Bachus—no
Bonner—no
Cramer—no
Davis—no
Everett—no
Rogers—no


Alaska
Young—yes


Arizona
Flake—yes
Franks—yes
Grijalva—no
Hayworth—yes
Kolbe—no
Pastor—no
Renzi—yes
Shadegg—yes


Arkansas
Berry—no
Boozman—no
Ross—no
Snyder—abstain


California
Baca—no
Becerra—no
Berman—no
Bono—no
Calvert—no
Campbell—no
Capps—no
Cardoza—no
Costa—no
Cunningham—vacant
Davis—no
Doolittle—no
Dreier—no
Eshoo—no
Farr—no
Filner—no
Gallegly—no
Harman—no
Herger—no
Honda—no
Hunter—abstain
Issa—abstain
Lantos—no
Lee—no
Lewis—no
Lofgren—no
Lungren—no
Matsui—no
McKeon—no
Millender-McDonald—no
Miller—no
Miller—no
Napolitano—no
Nunes—no
Pelosi—no
Pombo—no
Radanovich—no
Rohrabacher—no
Roybal-Allard—no
Royce—yes
Sanchez—no
Sanchez—no
Schiff—no
Sherman—no
Solis—no
Stark—no
Tauscher—no
Thomas—no
Thompson—no
Waters—no
Watson—no
Waxman—no
Woolsey—no

Colorado
Beauprez—no
DeGette—no
Hefley—yes
Musgrave—no
Salazar—no
Tancredo—yes
Udall—no

Connecticut
DeLauro—no
Johnson—no
Larson—abstain
Shays—no
Simmons—no


Delaware
Castle—no

Florida
Bilirakis—no
Boyd—no
Brown—abstain
Brown-Waite—no
Crenshaw—no
Davis—abstain
Diaz-Balart—no
Diaz-Balart—no
Feeney—no
Foley—no
Harris—no
Hastings—no
Keller—no
Mack—no
Meek—no
Mica—no
Miller—yes
Putnam—no
Ros-Lehtinen—no
Shaw Jr.—no
Stearns—no
Wasserman Schultz—no
Weldon—no
Wexler—no
Young—no

Georgia
Barrow—no
Bishop Jr.—no
Deal—no
Gingrey—no
Kingston—no
Lewis—no
Linder—no
Marshall—no
McKinney—yes
Norwood—no
Price—yes
Scott—no
Westmoreland—no

Hawaii
Abercrombie—yes
Case—no

Idaho
Otter—no
Simpson—no

Illinois
Bean—no
Biggert—no
Costello—no
Davis—no
Emanuel—no
Evans—abstain
Gutierrez—no
Hastert—no
Hyde—no
Jackson Jr.—no
Johnson—no
Kirk—no
Lahood—no
Lipinski—no
Manzullo—no
Rush—no
Schakowsky—no
Shimkus—no
Weller—no

Indiana
Burton—yes
Buyer—no
Carson—no
Chocola—no
Hostettler—yes
Pence—no
Sodrel—no
Souder—no
Visclosky—no

Iowa
Boswell—no
King—no
Latham—no
Leach—no
Nussle—no

Kansas
Moore—no
Moran—no
Ryun—no
Tiahrt—no

Kentucky
Chandler—no
Davis—no
Lewis—no
Northup—no
Rogers—no
Whitfield—no

Louisiana
Alexander—no
Baker—no
Boustany Jr.—no
Jefferson—no
Jindal—no
McCrery—no
Melancon—no

Maine
Allen—no
Michaud—no

Maryland
Bartlett—yes
Cardin—no
Cummings—no
Gilchrest—no
Hoyer—no
Ruppersberger—no
Van Hollen—no
Wynn—no

Massachusetts
Capuano—no
Delahunt—no
Frank—no
Lynch—no
Markey—no
McGovern—no
Meehan—no
Neal—no
Olver—no
Tierney—no

Michigan
Camp—no
Conyers Jr.—no
Dingell—no
Ehlers—no
Hoekstra—no
Kildee—no
Kilpatrick—no
Knollenberg—no
Levin—no
McCotter—no
Miller—no
Rogers—no
Schwarz—no
Stupak—no
Upton—no

Minnesota
Gutknecht—no
Kennedy—no
Kline—no
McCollum—no
Oberstar—no
Peterson—no
Ramstad—no
Sabo—no

Mississippi
Pickering—no
Taylor—no
Thompson—no
Wicker—no

Missouri
Akin—no
Blunt—no
Carnahan—no
Clay Jr.—no
Cleaver—no
Emerson—no
Graves—no
Hulshof—no
Skelton—no

Montana
Rehberg—no

Nebraska
Fortenberry—no
Osborne—no
Terry—no

Nevada
Berkley—no
Gibbons—no
Porter—no

New Hampshire
Bass—no
Bradley—no

New Jersey
Andrews—no
Ferguson—no
Frelinghuysen—no
Garrett—no
Holt—no
LoBiondo—no
Menendez—vacant
Pallone Jr.—no
Pascrell Jr.—no
Payne—abstain
Rothman—no
Saxton—no
Smith—no
New Mexico
Pearce—yes
Udall—yes
Wilson—yes

New York
Ackerman—no
Bishop—no
Boehlert—no
Crowley—no
Engel—no
Fossella—no
Higgins—no
Hinchey—no
Israel—no
Kelly—no
King—no
Kuhl Jr.—no
Lowey—no
Maloney—no
McCarthy—no
McHugh—no
McNulty—no
Meeks—no
Nadler—no
Owens—no
Rangel—no
Reynolds—no
Serrano—no
Slaughter—no
Sweeney—no
Towns—no
Velazquez—no
Walsh—no
Weiner—no

North Carolina
Butterfield—no
Coble—no
Etheridge—no
Foxx—no
Hayes—no
Jones—no
McHenry—yes
McIntyre—no
Miller—no
Myrick—no
Price—no
Taylor—no
Watt—no

North Dakota
Pomeroy—no

Ohio
Boehner—no
Brown—no
Chabot—no
Gillmor—no
Hobson—no
Jones—no
Kaptur—no
Kucinich—no
LaTourette—no
Ney—no
Oxley—no
Pryce—no
Regula—no
Ryan—no
Schmidt—no
Strickland—no
Tiberi—yes
Turner—no

Oklahoma
Boren—no
Cole—no
Istook Jr.—yes
Lucas—no
Sullivan—yes


Oregon
Blumenauer—no
DeFazio—no
Hooley—no
Walden—no
Wu—no

Pennsylvania
Brady—no
Dent—no
Doyle—no
English—no
Fattah—no
Fitzpatrick—no
Gerlach—no
Hart—no
Holden—no
Kanjorski—no
Murphy—no
Murtha—no
Peterson—no
Pitts—no
Platts—no
Schwartz—no
Sherwood—no
Shuster—no
Weldon—no

Rhode Island
Kennedy—abstain
Langevin—no

South Carolina
Barrett—yes
Brown—no
Clyburn—no
Inglis—no
Spratt—no
Wilson—no

South Dakota
Herseth—no

Tennessee
Blackburn—no
Cooper—no
Davis—no
Duncan Jr.—yes
Ford—no
Gordon—no
Jenkins—no
Tanner—no
Wamp—no

Texas
Barton—no
Bonilla—no
Brady—no
Burgess—no
Carter—no
Conaway—no
Cuellar—no
Culberson—no
DeLay—vacant
Doggett—no
Edwards—no
Gohmert—yes
Gonzalez—no
Granger—no
Green—no
Green—no
Hall—no
Hensarling—no
Hinojosa—no
Jackson Lee—no
Johnson, EB—no
Johnson, S—yes
Marchant—no
McCaul—no
Neugebauer—no
Ortiz—no
Paul—yes
Poe—yes
Reyes—no
Sessions—no
Smith—no
Thornberry—no

Utah
Bishop—no
Cannon—no
Matheson—no


Vermont
Sanders—yes
Boucher—no
Cantor—no
Davis—no
Davis—no
Drake—no
Forbes—no
Goode Jr.—yes
Goodlatte—no
Moran—no
Scott—no
Wolf—no

Washington
Baird—no
Dicks—no
Hastings—no
Inslee—no
Larsen—no
McDermott—no
McMorris—yes
Reichert—no
Smith—no
West Capito—no
West Mollohan—no
West Rahall—no

Wisconsin
Baldwin—no
Green—no
Kind—no
Moore—no
Obey—no
Petri—yes
Ryan—no
Sensenbrenner—yes

Wyoming
Cubin—no

By John Lowman
The Facts   

Published March 10, 2008

Danny Mann doesn't want livestock microchipping and land registration to become law, but proponents believe tracking will lead to a safer food supply and easier tracking in case of a disease outbreak.

The Sweeny resident and part-time rancher is concerned the National Animal Identification System will become mandatory, forcing ranchers and land owners to sign up with a government agency. The initial cost of less than $10 per animal isn't a concern, but keeping records on livestock, hiring someone to help with tagging and being required to register land are, Mann said.

"What it boils down to is the program will require everyone who owns livestock to register their premises into a database," Mann said. "Very little has been reported about this system. The government is trying to get this passed before they have all the details on it, then have a discussion. That's not the way things are supposed to happen in this country."

Unlike microchips placed beneath the skin of cats and dogs, current plans for livestock microchipping use tags similar to those which have been in use for decades to show cattle are vaccinated against tuberculosis or brucelosis, Texas State Veterinarian Dr. Bob Hillman said.

Livestock chips contain a 15-digit electronic number identifying the place from which an animal comes, and that's a common-sense step in disease prevention, Hillman said. That — and not tracking who owns what property — is the main goal of the National identification system, Brazoria County Agricultural Extension Agent Corrie Bowen said.

The voluntary premises identification plan has been in place for several years with no changes and nothing new pending, Bowen said.

"I have not gotten any new updates on it," he said. "I registered before I came to Brazoria County, and it's still voluntary. It has been for three or four years. When or if it will be mandatory, I don't know."

Group opposes funding

The Farm and Ranch Freedom Alliance opposes livestock microchipping and premise registration, calling it "expensive, unnecessary and intrusive" government regulation, spokeswoman Judith McGary said.

Although no legislation is immediately pending, the U.S. Department of Agriculture has said a national registry should be in the works by 2009, according to information on the alliance's Web site. In December, Congress provided $9.75 million for such a system, less than a third of the $33 million initially requested.

"No proponents of NAIS have shown how this will help with disease control," McGary said. "It's very expensive in both time and money, the two things people have in short supply."

The next step in the program is more federal funding and possible introduction in the 2009 Texas legislative session. Farm and Ranch Freedom will work to defeat any federal funding and will try to have a bill introduced at the state level to stop the program in Texas, McGary said.

But there is no imminent plan for the program to become a requirement, even though Hillman said he believes it should be. Prevention of outbreaks of animal-borne maladies like mad cow disease and even bird flu is important, he said.

Premise identification has nothing to do with a person's location, but helps track animals should any diseases be found, Hillman said.

"Premise ID tells the location where livestock are kept," he said. "It's not something applied to a physical location. It's a number that refers to a database location which makes disease traceability possible. We need disease traceability desperately in Texas and across the country."

The next step

Using electronic tracking is the next logical step to ear tagging, Hillman said. When someone tags cattle for tuberculosis or brucelosis, they're already entered into a database which eventually can track where an animal is from. Doing so manually takes more time and manpower, so electronic chips are an upgrade, he said.

Premise identification is mandatory in Wisconsin and Indiana, where there's "a serious TB problem," Hillman said.

Keeping tabs on animals is aimed at human health, said Carla Everett, a Texas Animal Health Commission information officer. Cattle might move through six to eight herds in their lives, she said.

"With animals moving in and out, you have to figure out where they've been to track a disease," Everett said. "If you don't know where an animal has been, it's difficult to know what other animals might be affected. We already keep records through livestock sales, but it's like using a Big Chief notebook and hearsay. If there's a problem, we'd have a lot of additional testing. People have a mailbox, they have an address. Tagging is nothing more than getting a number to a piece of property."

But Mann isn't convinced and is working to help defeat the measure before it gets to Texas.

"We want to help stop funding at the federal level and to prevent it from becoming mandatory in Texas," he said. "We'll contact feed stores and maybe some lumber yards and see about getting petitions there. We want the people to be aware of it. Not many ranchers know a lot about it."

---

GET IN TOUCH

Farm and Ranch Freedom Alliance:

(866) 687-6452 www.farmandranchfreedom.org

Texas Animal Health Commission:

That's what I'm talkin about :-[ We got to stop this! We are all gonna be sorry if we don't :'(

These are the criminals that came up with NAIS.
Ks Farm Bureau has been working on it in this group since the 90's.

http://www.animalagriculture.org/

I think that we pretty much agree that this is bad but I don't think we have any idea how devastating it will be if this goes though.

Here is a couple links to LOTS more information and some real eye openers.  :o

http://www.naissucks.com/

http://nonais.org/index.php/2008/02/23/long-distance-rfid-reading/

http://farmandranchfreedom.org/content/take-action

Wow, I've been sick since Wednesday, and I guess I should have checked this site sooner!
Yes, I work for a privately owned Animal ID and Traceability company, so I will try and put a little education out here without getting too passionate (which I tend to do).
The biggest problem about this subject is mis-education and knee-jerk, anit-government reactions.
FIRST; there are actually 2 separate programs that have entertwined in people's minds here.  NAIS (National Animal Identification System) and COOL (Country of Origin Labeling).  Think of it like this; NAIS is designed to track disease on a live animal basis.  COOL is designed to track food products throughout the plant to retail chain.  They are both government programs designed to help keep the American Public safe.  In my mind; the 2 programs should essentially compliment each other well.  But the funny thing is that people who are against NAIS (R-Calf) are for COOL.  And vice versa.  And "everybody" is against the government.

NAIS:  Voluntary system.  Live animal tracking for disease purposes.  Companies like the one I work for have been approved for database storage (private storage; government does not have control).  Data that would go into the database:  15-digit EID number, PremisesID of the ranch, date the animal left the ranch.  EID tag does not have to be applied until the animal leaves the ranch and goes into commerce.  The ranch does not need any software or hardware; there are ways this data can be turned in without any additional costs to the producer.  The idea is that this data is stored in these private databases until an animal disease outbreak.  If an animal has a disease (like Foot and Mouth Disease), the EID would be scanned and turned in to all the private databases for them to query the data (JUST that data; not any other data on any other animals).  All the locations where that animal has been (and the dates), as well as the "cohorts" (animals it was in contact with at that same time) are pulled from the database.  This data essentially creates a traceable map of where the animal has been and where any quarantines may need to take place.  This helps protect other locations, in fact, so that the government doesn't just go out and start killing, burning, and burying piles of animals like they did in the UK during their FMD outbreak.  NAIS ends when the animal is slaughtered.

COOL:  Set to become mandatory Sep 30, 2008 (if the farm bill gets signed).  Requires that all food products state on the package what countries the ingredients come from (take a look at your candy bar; they've already started doing that).  This is the part where McDonalds will have to tell their consumers where the meat comes from that are in their burgers.  In the meat industry, it also includes where the animal was located throughout the life of the animal.  For example, a label of hamburger might say:  Born in Mexico, Fed in US, Slaughtered in Canada.  This will allow the public to choose where they want to get their meat from.  If they only want to buy US beef, then they look for a label that says "Born, Fed, and Slaughtered in US".  Or if they want to know where that McDonald's burger comes from, it will say "From products born, fed, and slaughtered in the US, Mexico, Canada, Argentina, Australia, and Brazil". 

Premises ID:  Basically, your farm's social security number.  Tied to your 911 address of the main location.  When filling out the application, you need to put the 911 address and/or the Lat/Long information.  It does not ask for acres, number of head of cattle/hogs/sheep/goats.  It's just a pinpoint location on a map.  Right now, there is no "lookup" system for that number, either. 

EID tags:  Passive electronic tags.  DOES NOT STORE DATA ON THE TAG.  15-digit number is pre-programmed at the manufacturer.  No battery.  To activate the tag, you must have a RFID reader that emits signals and bounces the 15-digit number back to the reader (within 30 inches).  Data is only stored in a computer where the number is sent.

Personally I'm against both NAIS and COOL. Too much government intrusion. It's the first step down a slippery slope, which is how the government works, eases things up on you so your comfort level gets raised a bit at a time. No thanks

karmablvr... I'm standing in the same line as you are girl...

Anytime.. and I mean ANYTIME government is involved.. you can bet your life that there is MUCH more involved than the "welfare of the people". They don't give a tinkers damn about the people..or our constitution.

*quote.. They are both government programs designed to help keep the American Public safe. unguote*

Keep the public safe??  .....You have got to be kidding me. The only way we can be safe is to keep government out of our affairs.
The thing they care about it CONTROL.. and POWER... and MONEY..

No thanks... Call me anti government or what ever you want to label me as.. I could care less.
I will never follow the herd when the government supposedly is the leader!  NEVER!
And I think the majority of the people who still think for themselves have just about had their fill of the corrupt, illegal doings of our "government."
They can still try to feed people shit and tell them it's sugar.. but I'm not buying it!

When the government tries to tell me it's for my own good is when I really start to get paranoid! lol  And this is some really shitty tastin sugar they are tryin to sneak in here.

Whoa, I can tell this is a really sticky topic and I can very much respect everyone's opinions.  I'm not trying to force my opinion on anyone by any means or call any names.  Nor does my company have an opinion.  We provide the services to comply with NAIS and COOL if any of our customers want to.  We have customers who are like Teresa and strongly disagree with the programs, and other customers who have taken steps to be in compliance right away.  And I enjoy working with every one of them!  :)
Otherwise, we provide traceability services for customers to help them keep better records on their animals.  Before NAIS and COOL issues, the company I work for was started to help customers utilize electronic ID tags to keep better production records.  Research found that if a producer could identify the bottom 10% of the herd and cull those cows, even if they only replace those cows with average cows, it will still increase their production by 30%.  Being able to readily identify those cows on a computer screen when they come through the chute and make that management decision is key.  Also, tracing those animals through the entire production chain is very important for some alliances who strive to provide a certain quality of meat to their customers.  The company I work for helps do that.
We have also started working with other food industries, such as citrus, fruits, and veggies.  Tracing which fields, trucks, and facilities that veggies go through, for example spinach, could drastically reduce the incident of recalls... and even human deaths.  It also gives the company an audit trail back through the process to find out why, where, and how contamination occurred; and how to prevent it in the future.
Everyone is entitled to their opinions... as you know from other posts, I have very strong ones myself.   :-[  I just think that we should also respect other's opinions and encourage them to make an informed decision by doing their own research and fact-finding.  

Tobina, very well said. If we didn't have government in our lives crime, tainted  food and many other problems would exist in massive proportions. Most especially the food industry would be totally unsafe for people to eat. Without the USDA requiring Liscensed Veterinarian educated Plant/Meat inspectors people would be getting diseased, tainted and unsafe meats everyday. Prior to the government regulating the meat industry Packing Plants were totally unsanitary. Unfortunately industries of all kinds in the US cut corners regarding safety, sanitation and pricing until the government stepped in and started regulating each industry. I know that many people feel that we are over regulating in the US but unfortunately we are better off with the regulations we have than if we had none at all.
Frank

Ahhh yes Frank.. but lets just continue to use and enforce the ones we have.. not bring in more..
Don;t misunderstand me.. I am not for not having any guidelines..but right now..we are over governmented ( is that a word?)  to death..
but ...that is just my humble opinion.

And yeah.. I am probably one of those cage rattlers when it comes to trusting the government.   I don't.. Simple as that! :-\
I'm saddened and sickened by what is happening to our country.  :'(

One of the most highly regulated area of the food industry is ORGANICS.

One of the least regulated area of the food industry is "Natural".  Natural has not been defined by USDA yet, so therefore, anyone can claim that anything is natural.  Beef that is claimed "natural" (unless backed by a USDA claim) does not mean anything specific.  They could have only been "natural" the last 120 days of their lives, but fed all sorts of hormones and feed additives prior to that.  USDA is trying to start regulating "Natural" and "Grassfed" (Federal Registry has description and comment periods), but at this time, neither of those don't have any defined meaning except for what that specific manufacturer wants you to think.

Teresa, I agree with you in principal, I too am concerned about what is happening to our country. Unfortunately the conservative right, working people in this country are losing control, we are outnumbered and I don't know if the trend can be changed. I don't see anyone running for President that look like they will turn it around, Basically we have three (3) liberals running, two running as Democrats and one running disguised as a Republican.   There is more I would like to say but I will drop it at that.
Frank

I don't mean to sound disrespectful of anybodys opinion cause like I said before we all got em. ;D I've worked in several packing plants and they still ain't all that sanitary lol. I'm with Teresa, it's all about money and control. I'm a believer in self sufficiency myself if at all possible. That way I know whats in my groceries cause I raised em! I know most people don't have that "luxury" but more government control is not the answer, it's too easily corrupted cause much as anybody hates to believe it money talks and bullsh** walks. But that's just my humble opinion.

I definitely agree that I'd rather know where my food came from (my own backyard) than wonder how safe it is and if/how much the government is regulating it.  But... (OK, everyone calm down and take a deep breath.  I'm not trying to flame things, just trying to raise a couple questions to ponder... for everyone to ponder respectfully, please...)

If you were to take one of your own hand-raised cows to the salebarn, and a couple weeks later someone called you and said that "a cow" was found to have turburculosis that originated at that salebarn "sometime in the last 2 weeks" and now they're going to quarantine your entire herd (aka, slaughter and test them all)... oh, but we'll give you "fair market value" for them... wouldn't you rather have a system that would be able to track WHICH specific animal tested positive for TB and then it could be tracked back to the correct salebarn and specific sale day and specific ranch of origin... and NOT have your entire herd eradicated?
I guess in this situation, I see traceability as an insurance policy AGAINST the government coming to sieze my herd, instead of a way for the government to get his hands on "my business".

That's good food for thought. And it sounds real good. ( That's the scary part)

And if that was the ONLY reason the government wanted to put this through, and government had proven in the past that they really were concerned for the people and the small ranchers and the farming community as something that every town, big or small needed...and they were doing everything that they could to HELP every rancher stay in business...
THEN I would say that ..sure... if the rancher wanted to do it, it might be a good thing..

But ............unfortunately.. ( and I hate to sound like a negative broken record) but that isn't the main reason the government is wanting this to be pushed through. Ask any small rancher if  our government is on their side for them to stay in business. I can tell you what the answer is from about 90% of them.
( I too have also been to many farm and ranch shows and I have talked to lots of them on a personal basis)

I respect your opinion Tobina..and I know you have a loyalty to where your pay check comes from..And you probably do still believe in the "system"... but government is NOT on our side.
It might be a good thing if that was all that there was too it.. but  :-\...................................................... it isn't.

sorry.. they have proven that they can't be trusted.

And one more thing... I appreciate all who post and take the time on this forum to find information on both sides of issues and post it on here.. whether it is political, health related or just general information.. I want to thank you all very very much. I know we all don't agree on all issues .. and that is okay. I have to tell you I love the debate. the battling on information and viewpoints...the thinking and the passion that we all have about our beliefs and feelings. It gets the old brain adrenalin going.

So what if they aren't in the same box.. That makes it all the better.. Even  if we agree or disagree.. I do believe we all learn something each time. ( or we should) But the wonderful conversations on both sides of the coin is healthy, in my opinion.
We can agree to disagree. I hope no one ever feels like that they can't speak their mind on here. I realize that some of you may feel that some of us on here are more aggressive in our views than others and may feel intimidated in speaking what you think.
Don't be.
(Some of us.. Like me..  :-X just have a bigger louder mouth than others..  but it doesn't necessarily mean we have all that much that is important to say)   ;D

But the standing rule in here is...
No one ever takes a personal attack  on any one personally.  Just the issues.. and that is the way it will be.
So once again.. thanks for speaking out on all issues on all sides.

Teresa   :)

I'll give you that that sounds like a good thing, and like Teresa if that was what the government intended and only that then I would say yay go for it. But what sounds reasonable is never what the government is after unfortunately, that's just the reason they use to get us to agree to it. Because most of us are all for somthin that will use common sense to solve a problem. LOL think they used to call what the government does the old bait and switch lol :laugh:. I too enjoy bein able to talk about issues without fightin about em, that's how problems get solved  ;D

#1:  My paycheck doesn't come from supporting (or opposing) NAIS or COOL or any government program.  Like I said, the company I work for is PRIVATELY owned.  We started BEFORE NAIS or COOL was even an issue; to help ranchers manage data using new radio frequency technology.  My company is not going to fire me for being for or against NAIS or COOL; we simply need to know and understand the FACTS so we can answer questions our customers ask of us.  Like I said, I have customers who use EID technology to keep records on their cattle who are very much opposed to NAIS.  That's fine; we're not sending their data to the government; the Anti-FIA Law protects us (the law they passed for specifically this purpose; so PremID's and the information collected is exempt from the Freedom of Information Act.  Kansas passed that law before even allowing PremID's to be distributed.)

#2:  I have also been to many farm and ranch shows.  And I would say that 90% of ranchers don't fully understand what's going on; they only have received information from pro and con groups, rather than bothered to do the research themselves.  Most of them don't even understand that the EID tag doesn't even STORE any data!  The most common question I get is, "How do I prevent my neighbor from getting my cow and reading the tag and finding out all my data?"  Since my paycheck really comes from the producers themselves, I feel like it is my obligation to give them neutral, non-biased information about the programs, and let them decide for themselves. 

#3:  I do enjoy the exchange of ideas on this forum, even if they don't agree with mine.  I just think that it was taken a little too far when there were multiple, very lengthy articles from other sources posted in this thread.  I could have come back and posted just as many, even longer articles myself, but I chose to explain and summarize my own thoughts instead... trying to create more of a calm, personalized, back-and-forth discussion.  I wanted to know what YOU thought... Not R-Calf!  I wanted to know what YOU thought the scenario will be, not just that the government can't be trusted!  Then I was accused of name calling and being naive and cuss words were used.  I didn't think that was appropriate at all. 

#4:  I'm done with this post.  As a closing, I'd like to offer some websites for anyone to feel free to review.  NOTICE: I have covered ALL SIDES of this topic.  One is the government's website for NAIS, one is an opposing view R-CALF, and one is an agreeing view NCBA.  Please review all these websites yourself and make your own, informed decision.  Or don't make a decision; the government hasn't!  It's not mandatory, and according to legislature, it's tabled "indefinitely". 
www.usda.gov/nais
www.r-calfusa.com/
www.beefusa.org (this one actually has COOL specific information since NAIS is not really an issue at this point)

There used to be a comic strip that was somewhat controvercial and very political. It's name was Pogo, and one of the characters was a very wise o'possum who said , and I quote, 'We have met the enemy and he are us". Many people get rabid about government, acting like it is a seperate entity rather than the collective efforts of many people to bring some kind of order from cayosse. As a democratic country of course we cannot please all the people all of the time. As responsible citizens, we should educate ourselves, vote and support our candidates, and work to let our legislators know how we feel about certain issues. Education involves more than reading and believing every rabid scrap of print that supports what we think is right, but reading and exploring all sides of an issue. Thank you Tobina for being a voice in the wilderness! Keep to your guns for the good of all. And of course, cussin' should be out of bounds in all adult written discussions!

Tobina, I hope that you will reconsider and contribute to the forum and future discussions. The forum needs people like you contributing to it. I too have been offended at times but that happens when large groups of people get into discussions and I try to overlook what offends me and generally choose to drop the discussion if it gets out of hand or offensive.
Frank Winn

Thank you for replying and for the websites Tobina. :)
Everyone always needs both sides of information on an issue to make a decision..

And we all must remember this.. Anyone who is outspoken and has a strong opinion of any issue will be the ones who catch the "heat"..
Those who set on the sidelines and never have an opinion one way or the other are the ones that are considered the "good guys".. because there is nothing to find fault about.. The cage rattlers are the ones who get termed all kinds of things.. ( But like Frank.. if I am offended, I brush it off.. speak my mind and go on about my business.. knowing that we all have different ways of looking at things.

As far as YOU personally  being on the end of ..........*quote*  accused of name calling and being naive and cuss words were used.*......
I apologize to you if you thought that was a personal attack. I am sometimes too much of a a "very to the point" person and on several occasions people have later come to me and ask.. were you mad at me? I always kind of takes me back somewhat.. as I am not at all directly attacking them on a personal level.. just the topics. But like I say, I am sometimes too blunt and aggressive for my own good.
So probably those that are like that need to rephrase our writings..because It wasn't anyones intent to point fingers at individuals.. only issues..

Again, I'm sorry.. and I will personally apologize to you about the paycheck thing. THAT wasn't meant as a slam , as you took it..

Example.. I get a potion of my income for supporting the gun and ammo industry. Even If I wasn't a gun owner and advocate.. (which I am  :))  I would still not bash  the 2nd amendment and gun owners and the information leading to anything that was on the gun side of the board....because ... if you are smart.. you do not bite the hand that feeds you.
When you said you worked for...I just assumed..     :-[  sorry.. my mistake.... ( assume = ass /u/me ) ::)
but that is where I was coming from... 

Once again.. thank you for giving us the links to the information.
Yes.. mine were from a section of people forming a huge community that is NOT for the governments workings in general.
Regardless .. I think that we need websites and links on both sides of the coin to allow us to then make our decisions. We can all KNOW and discuss how we feel,, but without information.. it is all just feelings..
and I took from your post that you were done with THIS thread.. not the forum in general.. or at least I hope that is what you meant. You are an asset to this forum.. giving us information and viewpoints that are interesting and informative.  :) 

and this is going to ruffle some feathers...  ::) but............. oh well. :-\
Cussing or terms that isn't in perfect niceties.. is so very limited in this forum that I find it amazing that as grown adults.. in an adult forum.. that the few words that are used occasionally are put on a shelf with shock and disdain surrounding them.

Let those who are without any kind of wrong doing in the language dept. be the first one to cast a stone..  :police: 

Tobina, if I put out on the forum about my work I would catch a lot more guff than you did. I have worked in the oil and gas industy for 40 years and I still market oil and gas in 10 states. I see and hear people make comments all the time about the oil companies but I ignore it as I know they know very little about the oil markets and who controls them. When I go home to Howard I tell people I am a trash truck driver as I get more repect than I would if told them what I do. When people make comments that they don't want any goverment control I feel like saying I agree let's get rid of Social Security, Medicare, Law Enforcement, Meat Inspection, Food and Drug Administration (no control over medicines) the list could go on and on what people really want is control if it helps them and no control if it doesn't, that old saying, "IT DEPENDS ON WHOSE OX IS BEING GORED". With so many different age groups and other varied needs of people in this country we will always have people with different needs and always have laws and government programs that some like and some don't. Discussions and different opinions are important and healthy, if they are kept at a sensible tone and language, I am sure noone (Most especially Teresa) meant to offend you in anyway. It is obvious that Teresa likes a good in depth discussion and while she does get pretty vocal she doesn't mean it to be personal or offensive.
Frank Winn

sorry if the cuss word offended somebody, I just talk that way and most people that know me don't pay any attention :-X. And don't get me wrong the government isn't a total washout and I do vote so I'll have a right to gripe if I don't like what they are doin lol. And they stick their noses in everywhere but where they need to ;D Can't see the forest for the trees so to speak. So, whatever if I offended anybody I apologize.

hahahahaha   ;D  thanks Frank .. I had to laugh.... you are right in many areas...
My ox is gored lots of times and yep.. I don't like it much..  :D

you know.. it is so funny in a way.. and here I go again. .. talking off the top of my head..
isn't it weird how we as a society , are so afraid to really get in there and talk and speak our mind for fear of "upsetting someone or their feelings"?
I am not talking about having a cat fight and directly calling names and getting hateful.. Or being disrespectful...  And I am not talking ABOUT anyone personally on a direct level  here.. It's  just in general... so don't anyone jump off the cliff on me here.

I am talking about how everyone tippy-toes around issues and people and is sometimes just afraid to upset the apple cart.
We see it every minute of every day as the world is getting more and more liberal with illegals, Muslims etc.. It is like....shhhhhhhh be careful.. we don't want to offend anyone with talking about our feelings and beliefs.   Shhhhhhh don't talk prayer.. don't talk God.. don't talk guns... don't talk race...etc etc etc...
Kinda makes me sick.

I realize I am ... ;) as Frank said.. a person who likes good in depth discussions and yessss while I do get pretty vocal.. I really don't  mean it to be personal or offensive. 
If I did... you would know it!  :)
I don't go around the corner and talk trash on someone.. If I have a personal problem with that person, believe me.. I will march right up ..and we will get it on the table and take care of the problem then and there. Not that it is everyones  way... it is just my way.
( I get that from my mama... along with my strong nature and sometimes foot in mouth..and oh yeah.. my weird warped sense of humor.. )    LOL    ;D ;D ;D    Lord I love that woman..  :angel:

(((Thanks Frank for trying to help keep the posse at bay and  the tar and feathers off me)))   ;D :D ;D :D

Teresa, you know we do need more people like you around.  I am one of those that tends to tip toe around things nicely.  I do get tend to get upset at the issue, not ever at the people.  I had a situation at my daycare this past fall.  I have a BS degree in Elementary Education.  I have taught school for 2 years, and was employed with West Elk District as a Speech Para for 2 years before that.  I now have my daycare.  I am licensed.  That means that the State comes out once or more a year to make sure that I am following the guidelines set forth for licensed daycares in Kansas.  A year ago I went up from licensed daycare to licensed group home.  That means that I can have 12 kids, depending on the ages, by myself.  In the fall of 2007 I wrote and wanted an exception to have 13 for half the day.  I got turned down.  I got angry.  I don't understand why I can teach a room full, 20-25 kids at a time, but can't have 13 kids in my care at one time.  I, for the most part, never have problems.  The only problems I have are with my own children, usually they want my full attention.  But if I can teach an unnumber amount of children in a classroom setting, why can't I watch 13 kids for half a day?? :-\  I am the type of person that does feel that the government does have to much control in some areas and not enough in others.  I would never put kids in danger, and if I couldn't handle it I would never have wanted to do have the 13 kids for half a day. 

Teresa, I have become more outspoken, like you.  Not to make people angry, but to get my point across.  I am passinate about different things and when I feel I need to speak out I do.  Not to make people angry, but to get my point across.   I have been stepped on one to many times and if I was more outspoken at the time, things might have turned out different. 

I truly understand a little about this NAIS stuff.  But still it is hard to swallow.  I am not closed minded about the situation, but just don't feel that they need to make it mandortory until they have it all lined out.  I mean, the government needs to really have it ready to make sure that they know how to do it.  Explain it to the ranchers and cattlemen and cattlewomen, give them a chance to state their opinion, to testing to make sure that it will work and work right, then maybe then I might agree to it.  But don't make me be the one to do the testing on my farm.  I want to know that it will work and the ins and outs of it before I have to invest in something that might not even work right!!  Sorry if that offends anyone, but had to say that.

y'know, i apologized for cussin and I really didn't mean to offend y'all but it made me think of a conversation I was havin with my husband the other day and I realize this is a wee bit off topic but anyhoo, it was about people in the public who say somthin and then somebody gets all offended about what they said and they start fallin all over themselves to take it back and I said I was waitin for the person that stood up and said "yeah, I said that and what's more, I meant it" well at the time I said money talks and the other walks I meant it, in our culture that is pretty much true anywhere. It was not a personal insult to anybody involved in this conversation. Money greases the wheels for all of us and we all know it lol. I respect all y'alls positions.

been accused of a lot of things but being "wishy-washy" isn't one of them.  Got something to say? Spit it out.  Some times call for a little more tact than others, and I'm with ya'all - if I have something to say to a particular person, I won't post it on the forum, I will personally contact that person because any defugility (is that a word?) would be between them and myself, not them, me and the whole rest of whoever happens to be reading the forum.  My language does get some colorful words in it once in awhile, but it is not meant to be offensive and I apologize if it offends anyone, but I tend to write what I'm thinking and I think like I'm talking.  I really enjoy the discussions on here.  I learn a lot, believe it or not.  I may not agree with what I'm reading, but, hey, this is the United States of America.  I can disagree if I want to, so there.  :laugh: - - - AND - - - -think I have the oil price gouging solved -  ::) ;D ;D ;D LET'S BLAME FRANK- all in favor say "aye" (sorry, Frank, devil made me do that  :o)

I can handle that Flo, I am used to it.
Frank

AYE, but he doesn't mean it, so I forgive him.

Know this is kind of a dead topic but found this today and thought it was interestin, it's a anti NAIS bill that the Missouri Senate has passed and it's in the House now........
NAIS will hurt Missouri's economy:
There has been no cost analysis by USDA or Missouri Department of Agriculture 
Costs of the program include the cost of the tags, hardware, software, time and labor 
Many small farmer and ranchers cannot afford these costs 
Service providers (veterinarians, feed stores, auction houses, meat processors, etc.) will be harmed when the farmers and ranchers go out of business. 
Remaining farmers will pass the costs on to consumers, adding to inflation
Neither the USDA nor the state agency has scientific proof show that NAIS will improve disease control:
It does not address the cause, treatment, or transmission of disease, in domestic or wild animals.
It does not significantly improve on current methods for identification and tracking of disease.
NAIS is not necessary for the market. Age- and source-verification is already available through the USDA's Process Verified Program
NAIS will not improve food safety:
USDA itself has stated that this is not a food safety program
Contamination of food with e. coli and other bacteria occurs at the slaughterhouse or afterwards, while NAIS will stop before that point.
NAIS will not protect against terrorism:
The microchips chosen by the state can be cloned, destroyed, or infected with computer viruses, and reprogrammed. Any terrorist or thief can use this.
The database of information, created by the state agency and available to USDA, will provide a target for hackers.
NAIS infringes on people's constitutional rights, including due process, privacy, and religious freedom.
USDA states that NAIS is voluntary at the federal level, so there is no "federal mandate" requiring Missouri to implement this program.
Other states are also rejecting or limiting NAIS, so Missouri will not be disadvantaged by refusing to participate.

I am totally unqualified to have an opinion on this, but wouldn't the cost of tags, software etc. be tax deductible as a business expense?

I think the whole problem Diane is the relinquishing of control. It is difficult for some folks to understand the good sense of having traceability of animals. I would think those costs are deductible, and probably the government will end up offering a stipend for it.

Yes, those costs are deductible as a business expense even if they are not required.  Anything that is used in the process of the business is deductible and ranching is certainly a business, as is farming.

Animals are already traceable.

Yes, animals are traceable.  Just ask any farmer or rancher who has found his stolen animals at an auction ring.  I know that isn't exactly what this is about, but had to throw it in anyway.  My husband used to work with a herd of Angus and he could tell which little black calf belonged to which big black mother without any tags or identification system.  He also knew which big black momma to stay away from when she had a calf.

Yeah Wilma, that's true. As for the havin a problem with relinquishing control, in a free country I or anybody else shouldn't HAVE to. Kind of takes the free out of free don't it?

I said I was done, but I'll be calmer this time.
I just wanted to go over the points made by Karma:

Quote from: karmablvr on April 07, 2008, 01:57:16 PM
Costs of the program include the cost of the tags, hardware, software, time and labor 
Many small farmer and ranchers cannot afford these costs 

The only costs for the farmer/rancher is the cost of the tags.  At the ranch, hardware and software are not required.  The idea is that when the farmer orders the tags, he will have to give his Premises ID, and the mfg of the tags is responsible for submitting the tag number and the PremID to the database.  It is actually the service providers down the line that will need to be able to read the EID number from the tag so that they can also put their PremID in the database with the tags.  By the way, EID tags are $2.00 each.

Quote from: karmablvr on April 07, 2008, 01:57:16 PM
Service providers (veterinarians, feed stores, auction houses, meat processors, etc.) will be harmed when the farmers and ranchers go out of business. 
Remaining farmers will pass the costs on to consumers, adding to inflation

Farmers get the least part of the buck already.  Farmers will not be passing on the costs, it will be the other service providers that will be passing on the costs.  For NAIS purposes, farmers aren't going to get "premiums" for having tagged animals... truth is they will probably get fined for NOT having them.

Quote from: karmablvr on April 07, 2008, 01:57:16 PM
Neither the USDA nor the state agency has scientific proof show that NAIS will improve disease control:
It does not address the cause, treatment, or transmission of disease, in domestic or wild animals.
It does not significantly improve on current methods for identification and tracking of disease.

This is true; it does not address the cause, treatment, or transmission of the disease itself.  It is purely to help track an animal back to where it's been, along with what other animals came in contact with that animal along the way.  But right now there is NO way to track a disease!  There are no current methods!  How many farmers have visual tag #100?  We have 3 cows with that number, in fact.  And if that cow is taken to the salebarn, how many other #100's will be there that day?  Like I mentioned before, I see that it's an insurance policy against the government meddling... if one of the other #100's were to have a disease, instead of quarantining ALL herds that had cattle there that day, they could track which specific herd that animal came from and just quarantine THAT herd.  (Of course, it depends on the disease and the mechanism of transmission.)

Quote from: karmablvr on April 07, 2008, 01:57:16 PM
NAIS is not necessary for the market. Age- and source-verification is already available through the USDA's Process Verified Program

This is exactly true.  There will be no market premiums for NAIS.  The farmer will pay $2.00 for a tag and will not get any money back.  There has been talk of subsidies (and some states are actually giving tags for free if people will participate).

Quote from: karmablvr on April 07, 2008, 01:57:16 PM
NAIS will not improve food safety:
USDA itself has stated that this is not a food safety program
Contamination of food with e. coli and other bacteria occurs at the slaughterhouse or afterwards, while NAIS will stop before that point.

This is also exactly true.  This is not a food safety program; it is an animal disease traceability program.  To track the disease outbreak.

Quote from: karmablvr on April 07, 2008, 01:57:16 PM
NAIS will not protect against terrorism:
The microchips chosen by the state can be cloned, destroyed, or infected with computer viruses, and reprogrammed. Any terrorist or thief can use this.

This is false.  The EID chips are inactive.  They do not store any data except for the 15-digit EID number that is actually burned into the chip itself.  No data is stored on the tag.  NONE.  The method for reading the tag simply sends electronic radio waves to the tag, and bounces back with the 15-digit EID number.  Also, the tags themselves are tamper-proof.  Meaning, you can't cut out the tag and re-use it.  If anyone would like proof of this, I have a bunch of these tags at my house that I can show you how they work.  We can even cut one open to see the "guts".  As for protecting against terrorism; the only way it will protect against terrorism is if terrorist infect a disease upon our livestock and we can track back to all the locations of those animals.

Quote from: karmablvr on April 07, 2008, 01:57:16 PM
The database of information, created by the state agency and available to USDA, will provide a target for hackers.

The database is not created by the state agency.  They are created by private companies that have been approved by USDA.  They are not available to USDA unless there is an animal disease outbreak.  And even then, USDA will only be able to see the data on the EID's that they provide; they can't just go digging around.  The companies are responsible for providing proof to USDA (before they're approved) that they have safety and security measures in place to prevent hacking.  Yes, any system can be hacked, I suppose.

Quote from: karmablvr on April 07, 2008, 01:57:16 PM
NAIS infringes on people's constitutional rights, including due process, privacy, and religious freedom.
USDA states that NAIS is voluntary at the federal level, so there is no "federal mandate" requiring Missouri to implement this program.
Other states are also rejecting or limiting NAIS, so Missouri will not be disadvantaged by refusing to participate.

This is true.  I hope that it never comes down to making it a mandatory program.  I think it can work as a voluntary program... IF people participate.  Some states are working on making it mandatory in their state, in fact. 

Missouri is workin on keeping it out. When it comes down to it we all gotta choose our freedoms. I'll choose mine. What y'all do is up to you.

What I think is a little humorous about Missouri, is that they have a state-run Age and Source verification program (to help their producers capture more premiums for their cattle)... that requires the use of EID tags (the same tags that are proposed for NAIS).  I don't know for sure, but I think the "Source" part of that program also encourages the use of Premises ID.  I'm not sure if an official one is mandatory, but there has to be something to tie the cattle to "Source".

And when you say that "Missouri" is trying to keep it out, it's actually a group of non-Cattle producers in southern Missouri.  They are mostly made up of horse and small animal owners.  Not saying anything against them, just stating facts here.  We have a LARGE number of cattle producers in MO enrolled in our Age and Source program (over 600)... and all of them have Premises ID.

My apologies, Karma!  I just had a thought!  Your comment about the "microchips" and then my comment about the "horse owners"... Made me just realize that we may be talking about 2 different aspects of NAIS. 
Since we don't want our horses running around with these big round EID ear tags (poor things), but yet NAIS does apply to that species of the industry, too... it has been proposed that horses can get microchips implanted.  Although these microchips have the same basic aspects (no data storage, passive, etc), they will probably be more expensive than just $2.00!  Also, the basis of NAIS is ANIMAL MOVEMENT to/from different Premises... so Wilma's husband wouldn't have to ID his black cow and calf until he sells one of them and they leave the ranch of origin.  Which is a LOT more difficult in animals like HORSES!!!  For the meat-animal industry (cattle, bison, goats, swine), I think NAIS is fairly straightforward.  They move a lot, but they also get more contained and in larger groups.  It gets difficult in animals like horses that constantly move to/from different locations (rodeos, day workers, neighbors helping out, etc).  I'm not sold on that aspect of NAIS.  I'm not sure that part can work effectively!  Although horses still can carry diseases just like cattle can... I guess I'm speaking out of both sides of my mouth now!  (isn't there a smiley for that?)   :-X
Another aspect that kind of irritates me is the poultry industry.  Somehow, they think they are exempt from NAIS... but I think that chickens carry way more diseases than cattle!  Maybe because they are usually kept in the same group and not really moved around?  Heck, even FISH are included in NAIS (farm-raised)!  That's a little sketchy to me, too.

Sorry Tobina, hadn't looked at this for a while. You are right about the horses, in theory you would have to notify the USDA ( or whoever) everytime you rode your horse past your property line! Talk about ate up. And as for animals grown for personal use I really don't see why the government needs to have their fingers in that pie either :P I'll give you it might be a good idea for the big corporate farms just because of the volume and mobility of the animals. Small farmers, I don't see the need either because they have a good paper trail already. This just ain't a one size fits all kinda deal. And personally, if I have to mark my horses I'd just as soon tattoo or brand em.

I wouldn't mark my horse with this system either.  We move them around alot from pasture to pasture and Parker shows them in 4-H.  I will be very frank, most of the problem is with not wanting to change.  I know that my husbands grandfather doesn't take to change very well.  It worked for him years ago, and it works for us now.  We have changed ways that we do things on the farm, but the majority has not changed.  But we have to have a premise ID for Parker's 4-H animals that she takes.  Last year it was a steer and this year it is lambs.  So, Tobina if this goes into affect do we use the same premise id for our cattle as she uses for 4-H????  But what about a partnership farm.  Do each of the guys get their own premise id, or is it based on where the pastures are???  There are alot of questions on my mind on whether or not this is a good thing or not.  I just know that we won't take anything to the sale that is sick.  It makes us look bad, and we really want to sell the best cattle that we can. 

Karma; yes, there may be some sort of exclusion in the system for cattle that are home-raised and sent straight to a local packer for personal use.  Not really any reason to have an EID tag for that purpose.  Again, this is mostly for livestock that moves a lot, like stocker cattle.  Even for pigs, animals that tend to stay in one group throughout their life, might not have to have individual ID's; just a group ID that can be tracked from location to location.  I think that's why NAIS has been tabled and labeled as "voluntary", because there are so many aspects to the industry and no one can agree how to manage each one.

Angie; as far as the 4-H premises ID, I don't really know.  Did you have to apply with the state for your Premises ID?  Or did the 4-H just assign it to you?  If it was assigned by the 4-H, I would imagine it wouldn't be an official one; just one that could be used for research purposes within the program.  But I also imagine that if you already had an official state one, it could be used for your 4-H one, too.  To be honest with you, I imagine that the 4-H's program is more to prevent cheating rather than animal tracking for diease purposes.  Since the EID tags are tamper-proof (can't be cut out and put in another animal's ear), it's preventing people from weighing in one animal and then taking another animal to the fair.  Kind of like they used to do with nose prints, only easier to read! 

I agree about change.  If you look at the Agriculture industry in general, it is one of the most non-technology and non-changing industries!  "I do it the way my grandpa did it."  (Hey, that's the same thing MY dad used to say, too!)  Unfortunately, Grandpa didn't have to worry about pollution, diseases, or a lot of the stuff we have to deal with today.  In any other industry, Grandpa would have retired (or forced to retire) years ago, and a new forward-thinking manager would have been hired in his place.  My favorite picture that depicts the industry is an old man sitting on a chair with his pants rolled up and his feet in 2 different buckets of water... the left bucket is sitting on a block of ice and is blue with cold... the right bucket is sitting on a fire pit and is steaming and red with heat... the man is saying "On the average, I'm happy."