"I'm probably going to take some flak for what I'm about to say. That's okay, I've never been afraid to tackle tough topics...or to speak my mind.. and parts of this are my words and parts of this are words of others., but words that need to be thought about non the less.
Yes, I realize that it has only been 30 hours since the Virginia Tech massacre took place. But, some facts are in, and it is time to discuss them."
"I want to make myself clear here. I am saddened and outraged at what happened and my heart breaks and goes out to the victims and their families from yesterday's massacre. But, gun-control laws would not have stopped what happened from occurring.
What you had was a suicidal crazy lunatic who was hell-bent on causing death and destruction. Try as you might, you're not going to stop these people from accomplishing their task.
This unbalanced off the wall nut case with a crummy love life gets his mental panties into a knot and goes haywire crazy with a gun in one of the few places where he KNOWS he will be without anyone stopping him...
And -- as usual -- the Mainstream Media is bleating about needing more Gun Control.
Gun Control is a failure. You simply can not expect those who would do murder -- those who would violate the highest law -- you can not expect them to obey a lesser law.
And listen folks...you can not turn a failure into a success by doubling the failure.
None-the-less, I will be greatly surprised if the Mainstream Media and the political lapdogs don't try to use this tragedy to further their gun control agenda.
You want to be really disgusted? I mean, the down deep nausea kind of disgusted?
The State Government of Virginia had a bill before it which would have allowed college students to exercise their Second Amendment rights on campus earlier this year.
The bill didn't even make it out of committee!!
When the bill died, the spokesman for Virginia Tech -- where some college kids really needed to be able to shoot back this morning -- Virgina Tech spokesperson Larry Hincker stated:
"I'm sure the university community is appreciative of the General Assembly's actions because this will help parents, students, faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus."
He was happy to hear of the defeat of the bill which would have allowed college kids to carry weapons for self-defense on his college campus.
How do you feel now, Mr Hincker? Go tell the dead that they're really safe because the Virginia State Government refuses to allow them to carry for self-defense on campus. What utter delusions of adequacy you carry with you!
Police can't be everywhere. At Virginia Tech, they never even got close enough to take a crack at Seung-Hui. The murders on the Virginia Tech campus, the worst such rampage in our history, might have been mitigated if just one member of the faculty or a student had the means to return fire."
And despite all of that -- despite the senseless death and the smug arrogance that allowed the death to happen -- there is news that sickens me to the very core.
There are reports -- granted..they are unconfirmed at this time, and I pray that they are not true -- that several students were forced to line up, kneeling, and executed from behind.
I pray to the Lord our God, and to the old gods -- the gods of war and blood and thunder -- that this is not the case.
I pray that some students went down fighting.
Because as bad as this is -- and this is a horror -- as bad as this is, if fifty some-odd people were injured and killed by one person whilst on their knees begging and following like a herd of sheep -- if no one stood up and fought back, then this is what becomes an example of evil.
Not the evil that allows a man to kill other men -- although that is here in abundance. No, I am speaking of the putrescent evil which convinces good men not to fight back; the sordid filth of the soul which allows one bad man to prevail against fifty -- or 25,000 -- good men because good men have been systematically denied the mind set required to meet with, engage and defeat evil -- even if all you have is fingernails and rage.
One man. On a campus of 25,000 people. 25,000 people surrounded by fire extinguishers, book bags, pencils, pens, drafting compasses, chairs, broom handles, power strips, ceramics, chains and everything heavy and/or sharp.
One man managed to gun down fifty people -- or more -- without being stabbed and bludgeoned to death where he stood by the other 24,950 people.
I cry for the dead. I cry for the families who lost their treasured children today. I can imagine nothing worse in this lifetime than losing a child...let alone to senseless violence.
I cry even more for a land which not only denies the tools required for self-defense, but also denies the very mind set required for self-defense.
The trendiness of gun control laws has disarmed one American after another, in the guise of making our streets, cities, and schools 'safe' from gun violence.
But as the Virginia Tech tragedy illustrates.......... disarmed Americans are defenseless Americans." ..
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This past week, we were in St Louis at the NRA convention. We were excited to be able to be in the company of LOTS of people who work around the clock to ensure that our 2nd amendment rights are kept intact. We also got to meet and talk to Wayne LaPierre, and many many more who fight relentlessly for law abiding citizens gun rights. Michael Bane is one of them. He is the host and producer of Shooting Gallery and Cowboys on the Outdoor Channel. ( His blog from today is linked at the bottom..
http://michaelbane.blogspot.com/2007/04/pornography-of-violence.html
AMEN!!!!!!
Teresa,
First, I would like to say that my prayers & condolences go out to the families & friends of the deceased in this terrible tragedy. I simply can't believe the madness and evilness in this world today. Will it ever end???
I wish you could post this thread on a nationwide scale! My brother and I were just discussing this yesterday and we were both out of our minds with anger when we heard the reporters asking if we shouldn't have better gun control. Gun control?? Gun control is what allows this type of thing to continually happen! Don't get me wrong here, I believe we have to have some laws in place to keep guns out of the hands of criminals but... if many of the students were armed, this whole situation could have turned out much differently!!!
It drives me nuts when I see this kind of thing and right away the media jumps on gun control. If the law abiding citizens of this great nation of ours legally carried guns, this kind of violence would stop! If you don't believe that, check the statistics on gun related crime in most of this country vs. gun related crimes in Arizona where everyone & their cousins carry a firearm.
Gun control is not the answer. Protecting ourselves and preservation of ones family & property is the main issue. We should offer free training on a national basis to every legal citizen and arm them to the hilt. This kind of nonsense would cease and we would have a much safer country to live in. If anyone believes otherwise, they are simply kidding themselves, Guns don't kill people, people kill people!
BTW, this is a really nice website you got there "T".
Lil' Brother :)
Different thoughts . . .
I think a lot of people in the media today (and in the next couple of days) are playing the "IF" game - if more people had guns, this wouldn't have happened . . . if more guns were controlled (or banned or whatever), this wouldn't have happened.
I beg to differ.
This was an evil act. Evil exists in this world.
No matter what the laws are, if someone wants to commit an evil act, that person will find a way. Legally or illegally, evil acts occur.
There are other facets of the "IF" game going on - an alarm should have been sounded after the first two deaths, doors should lock, not lock. I see them as all part of the "IF" game.
I'm so sorry, but evil exists. Pure evil. Evil so strong you can sense it, feel it.
I'm really not into the gun debate - I don't keep up with it. But I sincerely think it has nothing to do with this shooting, no matter which side you're on.
A tragedy occurred. A massive tragedy. And from what I've read, I think the perpetrator would have done whatever he could to create one.
I read back through what I've read, and it seems really disjointed. I'm not able to convey all my thoughts today. I write something, then I sit back and think and sorrow. I find I'm rocking myself, trying to comfort all the people that are hurting today. The injured, the families of the victims, the people who arrived to help and saw all the carnage, the shooter's family, the professors and staff and friends who saw disturbing events prior to the shootings.
It is just soooo sad.
And I really, really, really don't know if it could have been prevented. Delayed, maybe. Source and focus changed, maybe. But people that want to do evil find a way to do so.
I agree with Mon70X7 this situation was not handled correctly. When there was a shooting in a no firearms area there should have been a lockdown and police should have been all over the area. I do not believe that firearms should be banned but they should be controlled which we do have laws for right now but still lunatics like this still get a gun to do this kind of acts with. I don't feel that students should be able to carried weapons into school but I think it would okay to have the teachers have the choice to arm themselves just like the airline pliots do now.
Granted,. there should have been one giant siren or something to alert the students.
But....................and hear me out here please...
This is NOT a small campus. This is huge!
The only way that a siren would work is that if there was certain sounds to:
1... lock and barracade your doors ( where ever you are at) and stay put.
2... run to safety( where ever that might be) * and remember that there is 25,000 people..
Evil?? oh yes... Evil exsists everywhere and will strike at any given time.We are going to see more and more of it..and that is a given.
But to have to totally "depend" on others to protect you, is unfeasible.
Realistically, I also realize that there were not all 25,000 students standing at one time against
this madman. ( In my writing, that was a metaphor, so to speak) But..and I know that there will be 1,000 "what if's:.. but what if all the students had rushed this guy? First the shock factor would have been there for him to deal with ..and yes, he would have shot some, but you can not reload a clip and shoot when a classroom of students all move at once toward the target.. which would have been "him"..
Why are we not preparing people in general to act as a whole? There will be many times in the future where this simple act will save more lives than not. We do not have to take what evil regergitates at us.
But I am still for conceal and carry. Yes, he might even have been able to conceal and carry, as he got his handgun legally.. BUT...
He wouldn't have had a clue as to who else was "packing" so to say and return fire WOULD have happened..
Hence...Less deaths.
Oops, oops, oops.
I'm giving out the wrong impression somehow.
First - I think the authorities probably acted appropriately. If I heard of a shooting in a dorm, my assumption would be that it was a lover's quarrel, or a roommate spat. I really think I wouldn't have at all connected it a mass killer running amok on campus. Yes, that's what happened this time, but this is the rare case. There have been dorm deaths throughout the country every year.
I don't see how you can jump from a dorm death to the tragedy that occurred. It's rare.
And, Teresa's right, there's no way you could lock down a community of 25,000+.
I'm just saying I think this can't be a gun debate issue, one way or the other. :)
And now I've got to post the "other side."
Yes, evil exists - but so do goodness and mercy and light.
There are also stories coming out about the students and staff who tried to do the right thing - before the carnage (in reporting him for counseling, etc.) and during the killings, but blocking doors and helping each other.
The entire story of Christianity (as well as many other religions) is that goodness ultimately triumphs over evil. God wins.
Hallelujah!!!
I sympathize with the families of those victims. But I will say that things of this nature are foretold in the Scriptures, and believers are told of what to expect. In the last days, there will be much unlawlessness, etc.
I THINK THE SAD PART OF THIS STORY IS THAT THE TEACHERS AND COUNCILORS HAD THEIR HANDS TIED. THEY KNEW THAT BOY HAD BIG PROBLEMS AND WAS DANGEROUS TO HIMSELF AND OTHER PEOPLE BUT THEY COULD ONLY GO SO FAR. I SAW THIS HAPPEN SO MANY TIMES IN MY 39 YEARS OF TEACHING.
It just saddens me to see those people crying and grieving on tv, and knowing that I can't do anything to make them feel better. I pray for them, and their families. And I pray that no one has to go through hell, like these people have ever again. It sickens me that my son has to grow up in a world of so much hate. You never know who to trust, or where you will be safe. It's so sad.
I agree with Mom 70 x 7 and I agree with Teresa and the other statements made here about the tragedy at Virginia Tech.
This young adult was full of evil. He worked for the Devil. He would have killed with or without a gun. I also, maintain, that it is people who kill---not the gun. If I just let a gun lay on a table, it would kill no one without human hands to somehow control it. I am not up on the gun debate--and don't have personal knowledge or use of guns, so to speak, but I have heard my father be as explicit and passionate about our "gun rights" as Teresa has.
I have prayed long and hard for all the victims of this act of violence and evil--from the murdered and their families and friends to the evil one himself and his family. We are to tend to these people--and others like them as a shepherd would his sheep. That is what I think the Professor Liviu (the Holocaust survivor) must have done when he used his body to block the classroom door and protect his students. A good shepherd--tending to his sheep. He gave up his life for them and took that stand to go against evil. Evil will not prevail---goodness will dominate! We have to sometimes look for it, but it is there.
Then there are more what if's---and one I think that should be mentioned is about the additional pain and damage inflicted by the media, not only to those survivors, but to us as a human people. We should not be spreading the pictures of this evil deed---not saturating our souls -nor those of our children and youth with the constant reminder of this event. Evil begets evil.
"Surely goodness and mercy shall follow." We can not begin to make sense of this tragedy. I truly don't think we can. It's the reality of the world we live in. But we can make sense of our response to it---as people of faith who respond each and every day in ordinary ways to having and keeping Christ in our lives. He is the truth---He is the way. He is the shepherd that needs no conceal and carry laws, no chains to bar Him from us, and I am sure the media won't exploit Him! Heaven forbid!
My prayers continue to lift up those involved in this tragedy along with others in our world who live in violence, abuse, hunger, neglect and all evils.
I sent this to my personal e-mail list, but I think it is so good that I would like my friends on this site to hear it also..
If you really want to hear something that makes sense.. listen to this.
This is Michael Bane's blog for this week. It is about the Virginia Tech Slaughter.
As most of you know, Michael Bane is Kjell ( Marshal) and my business partner in
Down Range.TV and is one of the big fighters for our 2nd amendment rights. He works relentlessly on this issue.
All who are interested in our rights, you will enjoy it.. and even if you don't think this pertains to something that you are concerned about.. please listen to this.....
I am sending this to you and I want you to listen to this because it gives good advise and has lots of common sense.
Fella's.. please...............
let your wife and family hear this ..and ladies.... listen to this..
All through out..and especially at the end, it will give you some common sense advise on how to be aware at all times and it just may save your life sometime.
Anyway.. please take the little bit of time to listen.. It is about 18 minutes.
I think.. no... I KNOW it will give you something to think about.
( You can also go into the DownRange site enter to win our next Give-Away gun. And this one is ..to me.. sweeter than the first one we gave away.
Thanks~~~Treese
http://www.downrange.tv/podcast.htm (http://www.downrange.tv/podcast.htm)l
For those of you who are not familiar with the little player..
just click on the black line inside the player with the mb042307.
And you can subscribe to the podcast downloads from Itunes every week..
It's free.
oh, I don't listen well to things. Is there a written copy somewhere? ???
Listening locks up my computer something terrible. :'(
Quote from: Mom70x7 on April 23, 2007, 03:58:55 PM
Listening locks up my computer something terrible. :'(
mine too >:(
I don't know if I can get a written copy of this or not..
but if I can, I will.. It is darn sure worth hearing/reading.
I will work on that...(http://www.cascity.com/howard/animations/159.gif)
This thread intrigued me enough to say a few lines. For the record I am a die hard gun-rights advocate and always will be. I am also a fair minded person who is able to look at and respect different viewpoints.
The bill of rights guarantees citizens certain liberties. I, for one, am sick to death of someone telling me the right to free speech is great, but the right to own a gun needs banned or restricted. These "gun free zones" are nothing but a flashing beacon to someone who desires to break the law and inflict damage on others. They will always target these areas because they know that the law abiding people will adhere to the law and there will be no armed people in these areas. That is why it makes no sense to me. If you wish to have a safe zone, don't advertise it to be one free of guns.
A poll was once done among individuals that were convicted of burglery. They were asked if they had to choose between two houses to rob, one with a sign that advertised a security system and one without a sign. Over 95% said they would rob the house with no sign......Duh!!!
Now if you are going to rob a business and one displays a sign making it illegal to carry a firearm and one that doesn't, who do you think is going to get robbed??? Kind of a no brainer.
Someone earlier made a very wise statement that is very true. Guns don't kill people. Forks and spoons don't make you fat either.
To the people that lost someone in Virginia, Colorado, Pennsylvania, or anywhere due to unabashed violence, my prayers and tears are with you. My opinoins in no way should be construed as disrespectfull.
I saw the following and liked it so I will paraphrase it now and get back to my daily toils.
The right to bear arms was a construct designed to prevent the proliferation of governmental tyranny. A constituency made up of a potentially armed militia served as a great deterrent against those with designs of establishing a new monarchy or dictatorship. Believe it or not, a fledgling representative democracy had plenty to fear from a world, at best, unfamiliar, and at worst, openly hostile to this new form of self-governance. Would everyone feel better about his citizenship if the lunatic in Virginia had strapped 100 pieces of dynamite to his body and blown himself up in a crowded area? Would you be any more comfortable living in this country if his assailant had used a knife instead of a pistol to commit a crime against his person?
Ok, off the stump and back to work!! :)
When it comes to crime, evil acts, an individual who just snaps and uses guns to kill innocent victims, the easy solution on the more liberal side is stricter gun laws. We have experienced it in England, Germany, Australia and even here in the states. Statistics show that all these restrictions do not prevent these kind of acts. It only makes law abiding citizens more vulnerable. Criminals or a madman does not stop and think about what is legal or not. The gun free zones we are seeing more and more, is simply an open invitation to the criminals.
Let me quote Fred Thompson (hopefully a republican who will run for president in 2008):
Virginia, like 39 other states, allows citizens with training and legal permits to carry concealed weapons. That means that Virginians regularly sit in movie theaters and eat in restaurants among armed citizens. They walk, joke and rub shoulders everyday with people who responsibly carry firearms — and are far safer than they would be in San Francisco, Oakland, Detroit, Chicago, New York City, or Washington, D.C., where such permits are difficult or impossible to obtain.
The statistics are clear. Communities that recognize and grant Second Amendment rights to responsible adults have a significantly lower incidence of violent crime than those that do not. More to the point, incarcerated criminals tell criminologists that they consider local gun laws when they decide what sort of crime they will commit, and where they will do so.
Teresa and I went to Wichita today and stopped at Jimmy's Diner to grab something to eat. What did we see when we walked towards the door? A big sign telling us that this is a gun free zone. We both reacted with anger. We were hungry and just walked in, but..... and this is important for all of us. When we enter an area with these kind of signs, it is also an area who openly has an announcement that the law abiding part of the population is unarmed. Criminals are not stupid and for them it is also about calculated risks of being caught or having to deal with resistance and self defense. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to know which area you should go to and commit a crime.