Elk County Forum

I am so tired of Ross bashing West Elk Schools.  My children attend West Elk, and I am aware of the superb education they are getting.  It saddens me how he is constantly slamming the educational system, as if it were sub-par.  The graduating class has earned over 700,000 dollars in scholarship money, the scholar's bowl team placed second in state competition, the math team has dominated the league for years, the FCCLA teacher was the 2013 recipient of  Kansas Association  for Career and Technical Teacher of the Year,  and the other caring educators that challenge students daily to set goals and achieve them. 

I don't care how you feel about the bond issue, that is your right.  But to constantly attack the educational system at West Elk and the lack of West Elk being a Blue Ribbon school is tiresome.  There are many wonderful schools that have not received that type of recognition.   I am proud of the educational system that is West Elk.

Quote from: daisy on June 01, 2014, 05:30:34 PM
I am so tired of Ross bashing West Elk Schools.  My children attend West Elk, and I am aware of the superb education they are getting.  It saddens me how he is constantly slamming the educational system, as if it were sub-par.

So you want to bash me, that's okay, go for it!

What bashing? Is telling the truth bashing? If so I plead guilty?

The State Government and The Federal Government have all said that educational standards have dropped considerably over the last twenty years?

Do you deny that there is room for improvement?

And now the National Government and Corporate America want to take over our schools via Common Core. And who is paying attention?

Isn't it time to wake up, America!

Quote from: daisy on June 01, 2014, 05:30:34 PM
The graduating class has earned over 700,000 dollars in scholarship money, the scholar's bowl team placed second in state competition, the math team has dominated the league for years, the FCCLA teacher was the 2013 recipient of  Kansas Association  for Career and Technical Teacher of the Year,  and the other caring educators that challenge students daily to set goals and achieve them. 

Scholarship monies happen in all schools and yes, there is always a few kids that get them. There are schools that get a heck of a lot more money in Scholarships. That really changes nothing. You are only discussing a few of the kids! What about all the rest? Don't they count?

Quote from: daisy on June 01, 2014, 05:30:34 PM
I don't care how you feel about the bond issue, that is your right.  But to constantly attack the educational system at West Elk and the lack of West Elk being a Blue Ribbon school is tiresome.  There are many wonderful schools that have not received that type of recogniution.   I am proud of the educational system that is West Elk.

Fine, you are entitled to be just as proud as you want.
However, do you deny that there is room for improvement?

If you have a problem with what I have posted and provide links for on the other threads, perhaps you could do some search and studying of what educators are saying across the US of A.

Read a little on the Dumbing down of America.
It is not just West Elk, but West Elk is what I support with my taxes.
If you had attended School Board Meetings you might have picked up on some attitude amongst the people that work there?

Just take a look at the following chart. The ACT Scores go as high as 36.0 and please
Notice the drop from 2011 to 2012 and again to 2013. You just can't say I made this up, now can you?

What is your take on Common Core?
Do you know where Common Originated?
Do you know who is responsible for the curriculum for Common Core?

Its Okay bash me for wanting better for the kids, instead of looking for improvement for all of the children.
As long as a few excel forget the rest is that the idea.

Quote from: daisy on June 01, 2014, 05:30:34 PM
I am so tired of Ross bashing West Elk Schools.  My children attend West Elk, and I am aware of the superb education they are getting.  It saddens me how he is constantly slamming the educational system, as if it were sub-par.  The graduating class has earned over 700,000 dollars in scholarship money, the scholar's bowl team placed second in state competition, the math team has dominated the league for years, the FCCLA teacher was the 2013 recipient of  Kansas Association  for Career and Technical Teacher of the Year,  and the other caring educators that challenge students daily to set goals and achieve them. 

I don't care how you feel about the bond issue, that is your right.  But to constantly attack the educational system at West Elk and the lack of West Elk being a Blue Ribbon school is tiresome.  There are many wonderful schools that have not received that type of recognition.   I am proud of the educational system that is West Elk.

The point really is not that West Elk is bad but the leadership sucks.  West Elk is an awesome school for those very reasons you point out.  And imagine that... they did it without $4,000,000.00 of "improvements".  Now don't go say, "And just think what they could do if..."  Not going to fly.  They still don't need $4,000,000.00.  They seem to be doing just fine. 

Excellent point nykkylsdymes

Thanks Daisy for your positive post.

It appears that Ross's point about only a few students doing well is misguided.  By my count, 27 of West Elk's 33 graduating seniors received some type of scholarship or grant.  So  6 of them didn't.  I say kudos to the 81% who did.

I've read Daisy's post several times - I don't see it as bashing Ross. Sorry.

I do see her as not liking the type of posts Ross has contributed to the forum; I understood her to say she doesn't like the constant negativity about West Elk by Ross.

I agree.

I think the West Elk school system is excellent, and superior to others in the area. Are all the teachers perfect? No. Do they make mistakes? Yes. As a whole, though, they are terrific and wonderful and dedicated and will work to teach the students they have.

I guess there is just no room for improvement at West Elk.

It is a perfect School and should be listed as a Blue Ribbon School and should be herald across the nation.

You rock West Elk no need for improvement, no room for Educational growth.

Just room for more sports.

The perfect school should not need new construction either.

Sorry for putting you folks out.

Now perhaps now you can sleep better at night.

Thank you for your indulgence, it has been a real pleasure conversing with you folks.

good info Dan. Congratulations to all the graduating classes in the area.

Are all the seniors going on to further education?

Quote from: ddurbin on June 02, 2014, 08:34:28 AM
It appears that Ross's point about only a few students doing well is misguided.  By my count, 27 of West Elk's 33 graduating seniors received some type of scholarship or grant.  So  6 of them didn't.  I say kudos to the 81% who did.

So, wonder who's putting up the money for those scholarships and grants?

It's understandable why you would think Ross to be misguided.  If I were a liberal or socialist or Republican, I'd really agree with you.  The education system has been sewing its socialist seeds for more than 100 years and it has accumulated many faithful followers except Ross and a few others on this forum. 

I was just thinking - Bill Clinton was a Rhodes scholar and that's a big deal too.
How about some of those Republicans?  Who else?  There's a whole lot of 'em that's been educated on other peoples' money and most of it begins on the local level.   

Where does the government education system stand on the 2nd Amendment?  How about secession?  Nullification?  Taxation?  Immigration? 

Loyal government education people seem to believe that we owe an education to their kids.
Wonder where they learned that?

Ross, you're irritating the loyalists and they want to take your freedom to make you to contribute to their cause.  They call it 'democracy' or better described as "mob rule".
Stay right in there - its' the American way.

The problem with graphs, charts and the like is that you have to understand them and how they corrolate to the population as a whole before you can begin to interpret them.  Due to the small population that is being served in Elk County, that 1.7% decrease as a district (exact same decrease by building) from 2011 to 2012 and then .7% decrease from 2012 to 2013 more than likely could be attributed to one or two individuals in each class.  It is interesting to compare those results to the Statewide results, which have shown a consistent average, with only a .1% deviation on one particular year.  The fact that West Elk is showing itself to be staying in a fairly commensurate position with the rest of the state is to the credit of those who have devoted their careers to West Elk schools.  The leadership at West Elk, faulty though it has proven to be at times, has been steady.  There are those who have stepped up, unpopular as it may have been to do so, and stayed with it for the betterment of the children's experience at West Elk.  It is easy to second guess every move made (ad nauseum) when you're not the one whose neck is in the noose.  It is far harder to be the group that withstands that kind of harassment and continues to move forward in spite of it, not because of it.  Nope.  Still not KONNECTED.  Just proud as hell to be one of those that devoted a wide chunk of time to West Elk and prouder still of all of the exceptional young men and women that have graduated and gone out to be individuals capable of being gainfully employed, good moms and dads and contributing members of their communities.       

You know what, it isn't all about West Elk.

It is about the whole educational system!

It just so happens, I live in and pay taxes that support the West Elk School District.

We can brag and be boastful all we want, that does not improve the educational system for the kids, does it?

Getting a diploma or a $500.00 non-renewable scholarship proves nothing.

Getting a $500.00 non-renewable scholarship does prove the school as someone working hard to acquire scholarships. And guess what? I saw her at the School Board Meeting giving her report on the scholarships she acquired for the students. She apparently did a good job and definitely deserves Kudo's.

Can anyone unequivocally say and prove that there is not room for improvement at the West Elk School District or any other School District for that matter?

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The following is an e-mail, I receive from Newsmax.com please note who they quote:

Fewer Than 40% of H.S. Seniors Are Prepared for College

Fewer than 40 percent of American high school seniors have the academic skills in either math or reading to pass entry-level college courses, according to a report from the National Center for Education Statistics.

The report from the NCES, the primary federal entity for collecting and analyzing data related to education in the United States and other nations, is the first to compare students' scores on the National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP) to college course requirements.

It found that just 39 percent of 12th-graders scored 163 or above on the 300-point mathematics assessment in 2013, the level considered a minimum to handle entry-level college courses.

And only 38 percent scored 302 or above on the 500-point reading assessment, a decrease from the initial assessment in 1992 and unchanged since 2009.

Students scoring at or above those minimum levels "are likely to possess the knowledge, skills, and abilities in those subjects that would make them academically prepared for college," the NAEP's governing board stated.

The percentage of seniors capable of doing 12th-grade-level math was even lower — just 26 percent were at or above the "proficient" level in math and 38 percent in reading.

Asian/Pacific students were the most prepared for college, with 47 percent testing at or above the proficient level in both math and reading.

Just 7 percent of African-American seniors tested at grade level in math, and 16 percent in reading. Among white students, 33 percent were proficient in math and 47 percent in reading.

And only 3 percent of seniors scored at the "advanced" level in math and 5 percent in reading.

Massachusetts, New Jersey, Connecticut, New Hampshire, and South Dakota had the highest percentage of seniors scoring at or above the proficient level in math, while students in Florida, Idaho, Arkansas, Tennessee, and West Virginia had the lowest percentage.

In reading, Connecticut, New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Idaho, and New Jersey students had the highest percentage in reading, while those in Arkansas, Tennessee, and West Virginia had the lowest percentage.

"As NAEP is the country's only source of nationally representative 12th-grade student achievement data, it is uniquely positioned to tell us how academically prepared 12th-graders will be for educational pursuits after high school," said David Driscoll, chair of the National Assessment Governing Board, which sets policy for the NAEP.

"The results are in — and unfortunately they are lackluster.

"But it is only by knowing these sobering data that we can build the sense of urgency needed to better prepare students for higher education."

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I don't have the answers, I only have the questions?
But you need the questions before you can come up with and assess the solutions.

For instance:

What do you know about Common Core?
How will it affect our school district?
Do you have any idea what our State School Board and Governor thinks or feels about Common Core?
Do you have any idea what our school district or School Board knows. thinks or feels about Common Core ?
Do you know who has most heavily financed Common Core?
Did you know Stimulus money was used to more or less bribe States to accept Common Core?
Do you know how many States have opted out of, or quit Common Core?


Food for thought and not for bragging about, sorry about that!

So brag and boast all you want, it is your right and your privilege, while opportunity to converse and make improvements in education slip away. No room for improvement for all the kids, I guess.

If this be bashing, so be it!

I hope everyone enjoyed and enjoys the rain we just received. I know I do.

Quote from: Catwoman on June 08, 2014, 09:42:07 PM
If you attend BOE meetings, as I did faithfully for many years, you come to discover that the improvement of the education of West Elk students is always at the top of the list for discussion/action. 

So it's apparent that you haven't been to a BOE Meeting for the last couple of years or so have you?

Beyound that are you saying there is still no room for improvement at West Elk USD 282 in the Educational Standards?

Do you think Common Core will ba an improvement for West Elk USD 282 in the Educational Standards area?

What do you have to say about today's needs?

The past is passed, the present and the future is what counts now?

Quote from: Catwoman on June 08, 2014, 10:23:59 PM
Oh, Ross...Calm down.  ::)  All I did was attempt to help you to interpret correctly the graph you had posted.  If you're going to use data to support your arguments, then perhaps using that data correctly would be advisable.  Let the howling commence...

How cute[/color "Let the howling commence..." That is a bit grade school, oh you were a grade school teacher weren't you?      Is that in some way, a way of attempting to put down the truth?                 Yes, the truth can hurt, but not nearly as much as a lie.

I don't recall saying anything at all about the graphs', especially in my previous post. But since you brought it up graphs and statics as we all should know and understand, can be manipulated to prove anything a person wants to prove. Pretty much common knowledge. And besides, you really didn't explain a single solitary thing.

So, perhaps it is you that should calm down.

As I recall, we were discussing how you use to attend BOE :

Quote from: Catwoman on June 08, 2014, 09:42:07 PM
If you attend BOE meetings, as I did faithfully for many years, you come to discover that the improvement of the education of West Elk students is always at the top of the list for discussion/action.

I have been attending School Board meetings for the last 1 1/2 to 2 years and seldom are there any teachers there, the coaches show up but that's about it. And I never hear anything about improving education. But at almost every meeting there is talk about improving the sports arena. They will be talking about that again tonight, the use of the Church next door to the school that is, it's on the agenda. The church has been out a lot of extra money setting up for use by the school as a gymnasium and even though the School Board had agreed not to continue on that path, here we go again. My bet, is the church over extended itself and really needs that $1000.00 a month rent to make ends meet. My bet is it was the church that asked to be placed on the agenda, but we will never know will we.

The School Board has asked for input from teachers concerning the new school construction during the last 1 1/2 years and received nothing and it was stated at the school board meeting that the teachers may be afraid of reprisal! Just where does that kind of conflict fit in, when it comes to teaching children. Does this sound like the School Board Meetings you attended. Well, see you see, this is the here and now.

To continue on the subject of conflict, at the last minute the teachers asked the principle, to ask what the School Board planned to do with the portable classrooms, if the new classrooms get built. And a certain Board Member became unglued and ran a tirade about how the teachers would not provide any input and now at the last minute want to have a say. Is this the kind of conflict/attitude between Staff and Teachers and School Board that is conducive to a proper educational institution?

I hope to post some pictures in the next day or so showing some improvement in dignity, even if it is just materialistically. I feel, I shamed them into setting up a proper table arrangement for a Public School Board Meeting. We will see! We will also see, if they discontinue the inappropriate manners of having a picnic and rudely eating in front of the public that attends the meetings.

Perhaps, if there are some proper manners and dignity added to the meetings they can then show better communicating skills, by not talking over each other and communicate with each other.

Perhaps, they may learn to use the Roberts Rules of Order properly as well. Aren't these suppose to be educated people. If so, why are they so rude to each other and to the public by speaking out of turn and speaking over each other and holding private conversations  during a public meeting?

Don't tell me to calm down when you have no idea what is going on at todays meetings. I know the hurts but someone needs to get it out there.

You might try reading the other threads and bring your self up to speed or better yet attend the School Board Meetings now.

And if you haven't noticed not one of the School Board Members have disputed anything I have posted. And don't try telling me because they are elected officials that they cannot legally do so.  Congressmen, senators and representatives do it all the time. Educatrs of all levels including School Board Members including our very School Superintendent post on the internet anywhere from occassionaly to freqently.

Thank you for your indulgence and allowing me to bring you up to date Catwoman.

Could you please tell us your thoughts on Common Core and the Federal Government wanting to control our local schools educational standards and teaching? If you mentioned it? I appologize for missing the post.

Never let it be said "Lloyd Ross is a man of few words".

Quote from: Catwoman on June 09, 2014, 08:37:31 AM
LOL  oooohhhhhh mmmmyyyyyyyy.  Ross, you didn't have to take me literally! lol  That was a long-winded reply to a short statement...If you're going to use data, use it correctly.  'Nuf said.  :P

Quote from: ddurbin on June 09, 2014, 10:29:04 AM
Never let it be said "Lloyd Ross is a man of few words".

Ya'all kant deal with the truth kin ya?

ROFLMAO

And not one word of that rant had anything to do with the graph posted...<sigh>...The only topic of discussion that was presented at that time.  Ross...Staying on topic would be central to maintaining some semblence of a conversation.  So far, you have gone off on at least three different tangents, not one of them having to do with the original topic (having to do with the graph showing the results of the testing done since 2009).  You are still into circular arguing/logic, I see.  As such...I give up.  When you finally do circulate back to the point where you are discussing the graph and the relevant information it contains, please reference what I originally posted.  It contains good instruction on how to read the graph and capably interpret the contents.

Outta here.  You can continue to dominate the conversation in whatever direction suits you best. :-)

Cat

Blah, Blah, Blah.

The subject is broadly government in Elk County..
Elk Konnected School Board Members as well as Elk Konnected Kounty Kommissioners and has been for over three years.

That's why I invited you to come on over to the hottest thread on the forum.
but ya can't handle it. Ya gota throw around garbage about the chart.
I told you nothing you said about the chart makes bit of difference.

The chart shows performance just barely above the center of the chart, that in itself is far from excelling. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that. You can attempt to try to make the chart sound excellent, but it would only show excellent if the bars reached the top. The scores talk for themselves, that's the purpose of a chart. Just average is all that is there. The truth smarts, doesn't it?

Come on over to http://www.cascity.com/howard/forum/index.php/topic,11780.msg220080.html#lastPost and lets hear some more from you.

I'm done here. Bye-bye.
:angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel:

Actually...The State average is the "average" to balance everything else against.  There is no 'performance above the center'.  <sigh>  Keep on with the keeping on, Ross.  :P 

Quote from: Catwoman on June 09, 2014, 06:29:39 PM
Actually...The State average is the "average" to balance everything else against.  There is no 'performance above the center'.  <sigh>  Keep on with the keeping on, Ross.  :P

That thinking is just moronic.

I suppose if the scoring was on a scale of 0 to 100 there would be no   'performance above the center'.

Is that how you operated as a teacher?

The ACT scale has a scale of 0 to 36.  With 0 being the worst and 36 being the best.
Just because everyone only scores at 20 or 22 does not make that the best possible score.
36 is the best possible score no matter how you try to disguise or twist the chart to make yourself feel good about average.

Poor is poor no matter how many school districts or states score low.

The educational standards across the country have been falling for the last two decades or better.

Do you tell a child that gets a C that their is no room for improvement.

Give me a break!

I am beyond impressed that you knew how to google how high the scale for the test goes.  I was merely pointing out that the measurement of the graph was against the average OF THE STATE.  I give up.  Ross, you bludgeon the common sense out of the most stalwart individual.  If you ever do indeed manage to learn how to correctly interpret the data that you attempt to claim as the backup for your myriad opinions, it will help immensely.  I have put you on my ignore list and will not be wasting any more time on this.  I had forgotten the most important saying...Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it merely wastes your time and irritates the pig.  Now...Since you are hardwired to have to have the last word...Post away.  I won't see them.  :P   

Quote from: Catwoman on June 09, 2014, 07:48:03 PM
I am beyond impressed that you knew how to google how high the scale for the test goes.

Brilliant, did you not look at the chart I posted? The score was right there!
How amazing of you not to notice! Must be all that higher education!

Quote from: Catwoman on June 09, 2014, 07:48:03 PM
  I was merely pointing out that the measurement of the graph was against the average OF THE STATE.

You mean you were simply pointing out what you think things should be, without knowing, don't you?

Quote from: Catwoman on June 09, 2014, 07:48:03 PM
I give up.  Ross, you bludgeon the common sense out of the most stalwart individual.  If you ever do indeed manage to learn how to correctly interpret the data that you attempt to claim as the backup for your myriad opinions, it will help immensely.

You mean, you can not deal with the true facts and therefore attempt to put me down?
You fail, sorry. And your interpretation is flawed. I did not interpret the information, I accepted it at face value.

Quote from: Catwoman on June 09, 2014, 07:48:03 PM
I have put you on my ignore list and will not be wasting any more time on this.  I had forgotten the most important saying...Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it merely wastes your time and irritates the pig.  Now...Since you are hardwired to have to have the last word...Post away.  I won't see them.  :P

Oh, you put me on your ignore list many, many months ago. And look, you failed, again.

Well, Miss Piggy your squealing is not singing. Try reading on about the ACT scores.
And remember the State Average Score is the Average Score of all Schools in a particular State.
It is not what you want it to be, it is what it is.

And please take a seat beside Diane on the ignore list and my blessings to you!

Continuing on with the ACT Scores, just so you know the facts!

You said:

Quote from: Catwoman on June 09, 2014, 06:29:39 PM
Actually...The State average is the "average" to balance everything else against.  There is no 'performance above the center'.  <sigh>  Keep on with the keeping on, Ross.  :P

Before your child takes the ACT, it's a good idea for him or her to be familiar with how the ACT test scoring works. Here are the basics of what your child needs to know.

Scoring for the Multiple-Choice Sections (English, Math, Reading, and Science)
•Students earn 1 point for each correct answer and neither lose nor gain points for each omitted or incorrect answer.
•A student's raw score for a section is calculated by determining the number of questions answered correctly in that section. Example: If a student answered 60 questions correctly in the English section, his English raw score would be 60.
•A student's raw score for a section is converted to a scaled score, which ranges between a 1 and a 36, with 36 being the highest possible score. Students receive a scaled score for each of the four multiple-choice test sections (English, Math, Reading, and Science).
•A student's composite ACT score is the average of the student's scaled scores for the four multiple-choice test sections. Example: If a student scored a 24 English, 28 Math, 26 Reading, and 23 Science, his composite ACT score would be (24 + 28 + 26 + 23)/4 = 25.25, which is rounded down to a 25.

http://www.studypoint.com/ed/act-scoring/

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PLAN takes the number of questions you got right on each test and translates it into a number between 1 and 32.

Just like grades, your scores tell you how well you did on each test.

http://www.act.org/planstudent/score/whatmean.html

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Teacher do you care to continue with there is no  'performance above the center', crap which is 22 ?

And guess what, I don't sing and I can't carry a tune in a bucket. So, please save your breath trying to teach this pig to sing.