Elk County Forum

Here is a drawing of the proposed West Elk school addition that was on page 3 of the Prairie Star this morning.

I have not been further inside than the cafeteria and one of the main hallways but the school has always seemed like a nice building that has been well cared for over the years. These additions would go a long way toward the education of the younger folks in the district in western Elk County and some of Greenwood County.

I am wondering how many forum folks graduated from the high school at this location?


(http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad256/waldoegray/schooladdition_zpsf1780cff.png) (http://s941.photobucket.com/user/waldoegray/media/schooladdition_zpsf1780cff.png.html)

Waldo, the current facility was designed for 300 students and the new addition is needed, from what people in the know tell me.

From an inside source, they are very much needed.

This certainly is no Taj Mahal, chuckle.

Quote from: frawin on November 20, 2013, 05:27:53 PM
Waldo, the current facility was designed for 300 students and the new addition is needed, from what people in the know tell me.

Frawin

The School Superintendent made it quite clear during a School Board Meeting and told 600 the School Board Members that the present was desgned for 600 children. Is he lying to the School Board?

Please who are these people in the know that are telling you that?



Where did you come up with 300?

Quote from: Wilma on November 20, 2013, 05:37:54 PM
From an inside source, they are very much needed.

What inside source?

Why is this need being kept secret from the voting public?

Something sounds awful fishy.

This is a political topic which seems to be over looked just like the last one the owners moved to the political section.

This deals with voter issues because taxpayers money is involved and elected officials as well.

You brought up the article in the newspaper pertaining to addressing the voters.

Pretty simple isn't it. Why hide in the Coffee Shop?

Quote from: W. Gray on November 20, 2013, 05:42:36 PM
This certainly is no Taj Mahal, chuckle.

The point of a Taj Mahal is building wastfully by adding construction to a building that is designed for 600 students when you only have 319 students, that number was recently revised to 340 students in the recently published School Board Minutes in today's newspaper.

I am happy to see they are writing more into the minutes of the meeting than they have been. The Minutes are a bit more informative. Good Job!

Quote from: frawin on November 20, 2013, 05:27:53 PM
Waldo, the current facility was designed for 300 students and the new addition is needed, from what people in the know tell me.

The school thing is nothing new - it's just another deal like Obamacare and the more progressive ideas and programs for government to control people.  Education has
conditioned generations to idolize the government and its power instead of protecting and respecting individual liberty.  Whether its Obama or the Republicans, its all socialism and tyranny.   


And of all the great advances proclaimed by progressives over a century and a half, from free schooling to Social Security, Obamacare looks like it will eventually be ranked among the last — and the least.
-Patrick Buchanan

I wonder how many of you nay sayers know that the grade school children have to go outside in all kinds of weather just to use the bathroom.  How many of you know that at least one of the grades has had to be divided because of it's size and a part of it uses part of the library as a classroom?  Just how much do any of you know about actual conditions at the school?

Good post Wilma, West Elk was designed for 300 Students and the new facility is badly needed.

I also doubt if they realize we have the Jr. High boys, Jr. High girls, High school boys and High school girls basketball teams all trying to share the same gym for practices, not to mention the wrestling team.  When there is a Jr. High home game the high school team take turns practicing well before school starts or well after the Jr. High game ends.  These kids deserve better.

ROSS,
I am from Severy.  We lost our grade school also.  This is not a Severy, Howard, Moline thing.  This is about our kids and their future.  It's unfortunate that you don't see it that way.

Quote from: Wilma on November 21, 2013, 11:09:11 AM
I wonder how many of you nay sayers know that the grade school children have to go outside in all kinds of weather just to use the bathroom.  How many of you know that at least one of the grades has had to be divided because of it's size and a part of it uses part of the library as a classroom?  Just how much do any of you know about actual conditions at the school?

Good post Wilma,
.
But you have it a bit wrong. You folks that want to waste taxpayers money are the true naysayers.
I'd guess liberals that voted for Obama and enjoy the damage he is doing to our country.

There is a perfectly good grade school in Moline that could be re-opened in short order!
It should have never been closed, closing it only cost the taxpayers excessively.
     
You use the word naysayer very loosely in my opinion, you don't take a look at yourself.
Here is a verbal mirror to help you out with that naysayer thing.
Aren't you the naysayer about spending taxpayers money wisely?
Aren't you a naysayer about re-opening a brick and mortar building that would be much more frugal?

Waa-waa-waa Wilma, Howard got what Howard wanted and now they are complaining about it.

Don't the kids have to go outside in all kinds of weather to get on and off the school bus ?

How about putting an attached covered Bus Barn for the poor little dears so they don't have to be outside at all.

The poor little children were cheated out of their grade school in Moline amd forced into trailers at the tune of a half million dollars. Oh my, oh my!

Besides, the kids have covered walkways.

I don't remember covered walkways to the outhouse, do you?

I'll tell you Wilma, the High School I graduated from was built in the early 1900's, and is till being used today. Don't you feel sorry for them kids that have to go to school in an historic bilding?

If there are problems with that much newer building, I would suggested improving the maintenance crew so as to get better care of the building.

Or is it like the country western song says, "When the new wears your crystal chandelier" ?

Nice talking with you Wilma, I sure hope we get a lot more of your heart felt feeling as reasons to waste taxpayer dollars.

Quote from: frawin on November 21, 2013, 11:14:17 AM
Good post Wilma, West Elk was designed for 300 Students and the new facility is badly needed.

Keep that up, built for 300 students, what a joke, where do you get that information ?

The School Superintendent told the School Board during an Official School Board Meeting and I quote, "The school was built for 600 students."

Some additional intemperate thoughts on the matter...

http://www.cascity.com/howard/forum/index.php/topic,11780.msg215070.html#msg215070 (http://www.cascity.com/howard/forum/index.php/topic,11780.msg215070.html#msg215070)

Ross, would you care to give the names and the date of your "quote"?

... and some historical perspective:

School changes
http://www.cascity.com/howard/forum/index.php/topic,4788.0.html (http://www.cascity.com/howard/forum/index.php/topic,4788.0.html)

Bond issue
http://www.cascity.com/howard/forum/index.php/topic,8771.0.html (http://www.cascity.com/howard/forum/index.php/topic,8771.0.html)

Wilma, I'm in the school on a regular basis - additional space is so very needed, so are the safe rooms.

Quote from: Brodys dad on November 21, 2013, 01:41:48 PM
I also doubt if they realize we have the Jr. High boys, Jr. High girls, High school boys and High school girls basketball teams all trying to share the same gym for practices, not to mention the wrestling team.  When there is a Jr. High home game the high school team take turns practicing well before school starts or well after the Jr. High game ends.  These kids deserve better.

So it really isn't about Education, it's about sports, isn't it?
You are right that the kids deserve better, they deserve a better education. Not necessarily better sports.

Quote from: Brodys dad on November 21, 2013, 01:41:48 PM
ROSS,
I am from Severy.  We lost our grade school also.  This is not a Severy, Howard, Moline thing.  This is about our kids and their future.  It's unfortunate that you don't see it that way.

Oh, I do see and understand our kids need their future and it is not I sports. They need better educations, not better buildings.

I am not from Moline I live outside of Moline, I am a county resident and I don't have a child in grade school any longer either.
You are quite correct it is not about Severy or Moline.
I'm sorry you can't comprehend and understand how it is about Howard.

But it is also definitely about wasting money by shutting down grade schools and paying nearly a half million dollars for trailers to put the kids in and then to complain about having the trailers? Plain foolishness, in my opinion.

The Moline Grade School is still standing and it would be a whole lot more frugal than the 5, 6 or 7 million it might cost to do all the construction that is proposed. There is no real set figure on the cost of all that construction.

So what is wrong with asking Moline to deed the Moline Grade School back over to the school district?

Because it really isn't about the kids and their education is it?

It's about sports and whoever is demanding this expansion, isn't it?

Sometimes it is really difficult for some people to see through the smoke screen.

Just tax the hell out of the taxpayer to appease someone's ego, that's all that counts, isn't it ?

But I am not asking you to believe anything and I agree you are whole heartedly entitled to your opinion.

Come on over to http://www.cascity.com/howard/forum/index.php/topic,11780.0.html and review what has been going for over two and a half years.

Pleasure visiting with you. By- By

Quote from: Mom70x7 link=topic=15717.msg215076#msg2150 385065166
Wilma, I'm in the school on a regular basis - additional space is so very needed, so are the safe rooms.

At the School Board Meeting they spoke of 2 square feet per person in safe rooms.
I am pretty certain that 2 square feet per person does not meet the FEMA guide lines.

I just recieved the School Board Survey.

They tell you that, you are to tell them want you want by numbering each item in the your priority.

There is nothing official about this thing and that is what it is a thing.

I will respectfully write across this silly thing to, "Reopen the perfectly good Moline Grade School and save the taxpayers money. I hope many other people do the same thing.

I think it is time for the elected officials to respect the taxpayer instead of thinking the
Taxpayer is dumb enough to fall for this type of entrapment. This type of thing!

Don't these Board Members recognize what is happening in Elk County?
This summer alone numerous properties in Elk County were sold by the County Commissioners at auction.

This included homes as well as acreage.

Why do you suppose that happened ?

Perhaps, because people didn't think the property was worth the property taxes !

Have they looked around and seen all the homes for sale in Elk County?

The county population continues to decline as the School Board has pointed out numerous times.

Just say "NO" just as if it is a drug!

Because their actions and efforts are not much different from a druggy. 
A druggy can't take "NO" for an answer either.

The paper even said there is a demand,
just who is demanding the taxpayers buckle down to them?

Just say "NO".  And say there is a better alternative.

If anyone has any doubts about what the West Elk facilities are like, you are welcome to visit and see for yourself.  It is not about sports or money.  It is about the security and safety of our children.  One look around the modulars, etc. and you can see for yourself what is needed. 

The present situation reminds me of the one room schoolhouse, where the "boys" and "girls" were out behind the schoolhouse.  The drinking fountain was a water bucket that was filled at the outside pump.  The schoolhouse was cold when you got there because the fire had gone out during the night and the teacher had to start a new one and on and on and on.  I have had my "one room schoolhouse experience".  I don't think my great grandchildren need to have one.

Ross, have you talked to any of the teachers that taught in the Moline school and gotten their opinion on whether or not they want to go back?  Besides, what is your interest in the conditions for other people's children.  I understand that your's goes to another district.

Ross,

I never said it was all about sports.  I simply pointed out something that you didn't know.  You are the one who is trying to make a play on others words.  It's obvious you are still bitter about losing the Moline school even though you live towards Grenola "in the county".  You keep wearing your blinders and calling everyone that doesn't share your beliefs a "liberal".  Just remember that this younger generation that you would rather restrict than help, will be taking care of you one day.  Let's hope they are more open minded. 

Quote from: Brodys dad on November 21, 2013, 04:55:06 PM
Ross,

I never said it was all about sports.  I simply pointed out something that you didn't know.  You are the one who is trying to make a play on others words.  It's obvious you are still bitter about losing the Moline school even though you live towards Grenola "in the county".  You keep wearing your blinders and calling everyone that doesn't share your beliefs a "liberal".  Just remember that this younger generation that you would rather restrict than help, will be taking care of you one day.  Let's hope they are more open minded.

No you sure did not say it was all about sports, I agree with you on that. But you sure had a lot to say about sharing the gym. As if it is shameful to share.

You did try to make a point about the kids sharing a gymnasium. What the hell is wrong with sharing and socializing in one gymnasium? Sharing is socializing. Don't the schools tout that socializing is an important point of going to school versus home schooling?

And they could share the basketball court just as well.  The girls on one half of the court and the boys on the other half. You don't have to have full court just for practice, now do you. As a matter of fact the coach would have it much easier communicating with his team practicing half court, couldn't he? Oh don't forget the pending contract with the church to use their building as a gymnasium.

No sir, you are totally wrong I am not bitter about them shutting down the Moline Grade School. It is just plain stupidity closing the school to save (I don't remember the exact amount) maybe $225,000 give or take and then spend nearly a Half Million on purchasing and installing mobile units, that they now want to dispose of at taxpayer expense, in the highest taxed count in Kansas. Where is the critical thinking in that ?

And the School Board has discussed teaching critical thinking, go figure.

And sir, I do believe Elk Konnected is behind all this foolishness because of the Konnected School Board Members. That is my opinion and I stick by it. Plain foolishness that is what it is.

Your statement that I want to restrict the children is once again foolishness. If you care to visit http://www.cascity.com/howard/forum/index.php/topic,11780.0.html and read where I have spoke of improving the teaching standards at West Elk you might realize that I am for the kids. And not the least bit interested in push sports. Each and every kid deserves the best education that we can make available for them. And that does not involve building an un-necessary building.

However it appears a few people will use the children to get what they want and DEMAND that the Taxpayers pay for it.

Those are the people that don't comprehend the difference between want and need.
And probably people, that have never done without. So they don't understand how wasteful they are.

Well, it is once again almost time for the taxpayers to tell them "NO". Something they are not use to. After the April vote telling them "NO" those folks are already prepared to come back with the same thing in November. They said so at a School Board Meeting.

You just keep working at trying to make me out the bad guy, it just won't work.

Thanks for sharing with us.
   

Quote from: ROSS on November 21, 2013, 02:24:34 PM


Just tax the hell out of the taxpayer to appease someone's ego, that's all that counts, isn't it ?

But I am not asking you to believe anything and I agree you are whole heartedly entitled to your opinion.

Come on over to http://www.cascity.com/howard/forum/index.php/topic,11780.0.html and review what has been going for over two and a half years.

Pleasure visiting with you. By- By

If they raise the taxes again, there isn't a snowballs chance in hell folks would move into elk co.  In fact it will more than likely drive people out.
Taxation is theft pure and simple.   There is no excuse for anyone to steal other peoples property

Brodys dad, would you explain to Ross about the importance of sports in high school and their value in obtaining scholarships?  I am too tired to continue trying to promote reason and reality tonight.

If I recall correctly, the high school kids and junior high kids shared a gym even before the closing of the elementary schools in Moline and Severy. if the school building in Howard had been designed for three hundred students only, then the addition of the portables already purchased should suit the needs of the current student body easily. Funny how there seemed to be sufficient room for them all a few years back when the student body then numbered well over four hundred. Face it, the population is dwindling. Nobodies' fault, it is happening all over the country.

Yes, our folks built schools, only when there was a real need, not just a perceived need.

Some folks whine to get something, and when they get it, find out it isn't really what they want, then whine some more.

How much will this bond issue cost the taxpayer , just for the election? And again in November? Puleeze!!

Quote from: Wilma on November 21, 2013, 07:49:27 PM
Brodys dad, would you explain to Ross about the importance of sports in high school and their value in obtaining scholarships?  I am too tired to continue trying to promote reason and reality tonight.

Brodys dad would you explain to Wilma that basic education for all children is far more important than a sport scholarship for one or two. One or two that goe to college and acquire large student loans because they can't repay because they are going to be flipping hamburger or working at Walmart.
Sports scholarships are not in the best interest of the majority of the children. How selfish can you get?

Oh and Brodys dad, would you explain to Wilma thank you for further confirmation that her remark further strengthens the fact that this is more about sports than education.

Thank you Brodys dad !

Quote from: sixdogsmom on November 21, 2013, 08:56:42 PM
If I recall correctly, the high school kids and junior high kids shared a gym even before the closing of the elementary schools in Moline and Severy. if the school building in Howard had been designed for three hundred students only, then the addition of the portables already purchased should suit the needs of the current student body easily. Funny how there seemed to be sufficient room for them all a few years back when the student body then numbered well over four hundred. Face it, the population is dwindling. Nobodies' fault, it is happening all over the country.

Yes, our folks built schools, only when there was a real need, not just a perceived need.

Some folks whine to get something, and when they get it, find out it isn't really what they want, then whine some more.

How much will this bond issue cost the taxpayer , just for the election? And again in November? Puleeze!!

Well said sixdogsmom. I'd like to add if they really think this is a real necessity, prove it. Ask the State for a school audit to prove it? Step up to the plate folks, let's see what you are made of. Does the School Board have even a bit of integrity. If they do, they wil subject the school district to a state audit. If they get that and the state agrees with you, you will most likely get what you want.

Can the School Board stand up to the light of day?

I believe a Kansas City School District recently did just that and were saved millions of dollars, and were grateful to the state.

How about all you Elk Konnected Followers can you stand up to the light of day? Will you push for an audit?

I doubt it, therefore you won't call for an audit. So this thing should end right now.

$85 dollars an hour for a contractor that you don't need is a big waste of taxayer money and steals money from our childrens education.. You paid him that contractor one meeting when all he had to say was, I have nothing for you this evening. Rediculous, totally rediculous !

The school principle told me she did more that evening than the contractor and should get his $85 an hour.

I just got to say it again, Rediculous, just rediculous! Get some classes in critical thinking for the School Board please!

Quote from: sixdogsmom on November 21, 2013, 08:56:42 PM
If I recall correctly, the high school kids and junior high kids shared a gym even before the closing of the elementary schools in Moline and Severy. if the school building in Howard had been designed for three hundred students only, then the addition of the portables already purchased should suit the needs of the current student body easily. Funny how there seemed to be sufficient room for them all a few years back when the student body then numbered well over four hundred. Face it, the population is dwindling. Nobodies' fault, it is happening all over the country.

Yes, our folks built schools, only when there was a real need, not just a perceived need.

Some folks whine to get something, and when they get it, find out it isn't really what they want, then whine some more.

How much will this bond issue cost the taxpayer , just for the election? And again in November? Puleeze!!

Puleeze indeed!  Great observations, Six.

Yes Sir!  Good observations indeed.

Quote from: srkruzich on November 21, 2013, 06:57:20 PM
If they raise the taxes again, there isn't a snowballs chance in hell folks would move into elk co.  In fact it will more than likely drive people out.
Taxation is theft pure and simple.   There is no excuse for anyone to steal other peoples property

You gotta wonder why people in the USA think the government owes them or their kids an education or anything else for that matter.  Their kind of thinking is un-American and it's costing us a lot of money and our liberty.  Obama and the Republicans continue to move forward the socialist agenda in their debates and disagreements even though they seem not to like each other. 

While I agree that sports in high school should not be the primary focus of a schools faculty or students, it is also short sighted to think that sports cannot be a integral part of an education. 

Their are lessons learned on a field/court that cannot be taught in a classroom.  Teamwork, success, failure, performing under pressure, concentration, competition, physical fitness, leadership, teaching and many others.  The experiences the 28 boys on West Elks football team experienced this year cannot be duplicated in a classroom. The bond between those guys will last a lifetime. The trill of success and the pain of defeat.  Working together for a common goal, trusting in each other, being coached and applying it. All of these thing help to grow and mature young people.     

And sports should not be written off as just a hobby anymore.  Sports are a billion dollar industry in America.  Most major universities offer numerous degrees in sports related fields. Not just playing and coaching. Sports Management, Sports Medicine, Sports Marketing, Communications, Apparel and Equipment.  I would venture to guess that there are as many West Elk Graduates that pursue sports related education/jobs as there are Agricultural.

Do you realize students that play sports are held to a higher standard than then general student population.  They have to keep a certain GPA's, attendance and behavior on and off the field. 

With the soaring cost of education, scholarships are very important. And i'm not just talking about sports scholarships.  All scholarships want you to have extra curricular actives.  Sports are a great extra curricular activity.  If a student is gifted enough to earn a athletic scholarship then that is awesome.  If not then being part of a team helps enhance their academic achievements.

Lets not forget physical fitness and education.  PE is required for K-9 grades.  Do you realize that at certain times during the day 3-4 graders are in the gym at the same time as Freshman. Around 50 kids.  Not only are they cramped for space but mingling of 8 year olds and 15 year olds is not a safe environment.  What do they do on bad weather days for recess?

I understand the need for classroom is greater than the need for an elementary gym.  But we cannot discount the the need for a gym as just for "sports". 

What a ridiculous survey the School Board put together.
Are they into marketing?
Are they kin to NSA ?

Why do they think they need  personal information on this survey?

I am not about to fill out age group or the primary residence information. Will you?

Or whether I am a renter or owner, or if I have children enrolled or not attending West Elk, because this information is irrelevant to the topic. They are trying to gather information they do not need. But for what reason? Will you bow down to them? They recieved their list from the court house on who the voters are, I'm sure. But when they have public meeting to discussthings like this one they have scheduled, will they ask for voter identtification cards to get in. "NO". Simple isn't it?

Their letter is addressed near the top as:
                                   To:       West Elk USD#282 Registered Voters

That is enough. This is not a legal election by mail; it is a Bull Shit letter in my opinion asking you to approve their ideas before establishing any real facts. Just number them in the order of importance to you, they are asking. It is simply a poll, nothing more.
Please, Don't fall for the phony in the style of the letter.

Real Eye's, Realize, Real Lies. I love that statement!

Do you see any documentation that state aid is available? "NO" you don't?
Haven't you heard states across the nation are cutting budgets?
Haven't we heard the Same thing from the school Board in the
past?

Did you read anything in the letter about FEMA aid for storm shelters?
"NO" I didn't think so.
The $85 an hour contractor told them the Storm doors they want to put in cost $6000.00 a piece. Where is the FEMA aid? Oh that's right the $85 an hour   contractor told the school board Independence did not use FEMA when they built their school! Did the School Board ask why? "NO"    Perhaps there is no aid available!

None of this can stand up to the light of day!

They don't allow for any citizen input! Thving an official ey don't allow for any citizens questions?
They are not even having an Official School Board Meeting to discuss this.
Re-read the letter if you want, there will only be four School Board Members on the stage, no quorum, no Official Meeting. All of the Elected School Board Members will most likely be in attendance, but only on the stage at a time. Oh, I bet the School Superintendent will be up there to control and direct the Elected officials. But still it is unofficial which means off the record, I wonder why?

They don't ask if anyone has an alternative to save the district taxpayers money.  Why?

They don't care. Thus Bull Shit.

If you have any sense at all you will simply write across the Form to re-open the Moline Grade School. Yes, that is my opinion !

You can stop the Elite, Old Boys Club" or the "Old Guard"   from stealing your money as taxes for the next 20 years for a building that is un-needed. Yes, you can tell them no! Yes, you can say I won't fall in to your trap

If the rich of the county want to build a Taj Mahal offer them a contract to build it with their own money and include that they for pay all the extra maintenance. Require that they place a minimum of $20,000,000.00 I escrow and that building control remains fully in the hands of the taxpayers. Then they have a deal.

No sir, they don't really want it, unless you pay for it for twenty years through taxes and during that twenty years they will continue to have the right to raise your property taxes another 4 mil each year. Is that what you really want?

I told you that at a Board Meeting that a Board Member said they could raise our property taxes by 5 mil and he was immediately corrected that State Law was only 4 mil. He then stated that that they need to get that law changed. They don't care about spending all of your money they can. So give it some thought.

Look at the Federal Government they didn't care either and now here is a national debt way over $17 Billion and we can barely pay the interest on it, even though interest rates are at an all time low. And the trade deficit is out of this world due to poor economic control. Our country is headed for bankruptcy; our credit rating has been damaged, because politicians wanted more and more, instead with sticking to need.

Is that what you want for Elk County?

Simply write, "Re-open the Moline Grade School" across the form.
All their needs will be full filled.

What stinks - er - smells worse me or this coniving? I just took a shower and put on clean clothes!

       I participated in sports. My children did not. That was their choice to make.

    Sports did not create any special "bond" or life experience for me, other than learning about competition. The place children need to learn to compete is in the workplace, where success really matters, and that takes good teaching. Those children in sports are not held to any higher standard, balderdash. Take a good look at the athletes in the limelight today and what they major in in college. How many are doctors or CEO's? What happens to them when their career is over? Remember Terrell Owens, the uneducated idiot? And there are countless others.

    If the school population is shrinking, it is quite illogical to say more space is needed. Plain and simple.

Patriotdad,

Very well said, you make several very good points.  I'm sure the conspiracy theorists will try to find some flaws in your remarks.

Quote from: patriotdad on November 22, 2013, 10:29:18 AM

While I agree that sports in high school should not be the primary focus of a schools faculty or students, it is also short sighted to think that sports cannot be a integral part of an education. 

Well good for you recognizing that sports should not be the primary focus.
No one has ever said that sports is unimportant. But I think you might agree that reading, writing and arithmetic is far more important.

Quote from: patriotdad on November 22, 2013, 10:29:18 AM
Their are lessons learned on a field/court that cannot be taught in a classroom.  Teamwork, success, failure, performing under pressure, concentration, competition, physical fitness, leadership, teaching and many others.  The experiences the 28 boys on West Elks football team experienced this year cannot be duplicated in a classroom. The bond between those guys will last a lifetime. The trill of success and the pain of defeat.  Working together for a common goal, trusting in each other, being coached and applying it. All of these thing help to grow and mature young people.     

Oh whoopee! So you are cheer leader! Is school for teaching the basics in order for all the children to progress in life. Or is it just for the jocks and the boosters and cheerleaders? I don't hear you cheer leading for higher educational standards for ALL of the children, why is that?  We have heard all the praises before from cheer leaders and boosters before, nothing new there. Forget about the expense for all those sports trips that could pay for better teachers, right? 4H, FFA, Boy Scouts and other activities do all of the same the same thing and so much more and without brain concussions on every play!

You have just further, confirmed that this is about sports over education, in my opinion.

Quote from: patriotdad on November 22, 2013, 10:29:18 AM

And sports should not be written off as just a hobby anymore.  Sports are a billion dollar industry in America.  Most major universities offer numerous degrees in sports related fields. Not just playing and coaching. Sports Management, Sports Medicine, Sports Marketing, Communications, Apparel and Equipment.  I would venture to guess that there are as many West Elk Graduates that pursue sports related education/jobs as there are Agricultural.

To pursue a career in sports takes far more than playing school sports doesn't it. It is not school sports that makes a kid want to play sports, sports come quite natural and so does being a geek. It is not school sports that is the only sports for kids either.

You can venture anything you want and I can venture just the opposite, what is proven, nothing! Where are the facts and figures?

Quote from: patriotdad on November 22, 2013, 10:29:18 AM

Do you realize students that play sports are held to a higher standard than then general student population.  They have to keep a certain GPA's, attendance and behavior on and off the field. 

Do you realize that higher standard is simply a passing grade?
Nothing spectacular about that now is there?         
Just keep re-affirming this is all about sports, thank you?

Quote from: patriotdad on November 22, 2013, 10:29:18 AM

With the soaring cost of education, scholarships are very important. And i'm not just talking about sports scholarships.  All scholarships want you to have extra curricular actives.  Sports are a great extra curricular activity.  If a student is gifted enough to earn a athletic scholarship then that is awesome.  If not then being part of a team helps enhance their academic achievements.

Haven't you kept up with all those young folks with student loans that started out with scholarships and are now flipping hamburgers and can not meet their obligations. They have to rely on food stamps to be able to survive? Don't you read the news?

Quote from: patriotdad on November 22, 2013, 10:29:18 AM

Lets not forget physical fitness and education.  PE is required for K-9 grades.  Do you realize that at certain times during the day 3-4 graders are in the gym at the same time as Freshman. Around 50 kids.  Not only are they cramped for space but mingling of 8 year olds and 15 year olds is not a safe environment.  What do they do on bad weather days for recess?

But what about all that "Teamwork, success, failure, performing under pressure, concentration, competition, physical fitness, leadership, teaching and many others" you talked of. And might I add sharing and socializing and working together as a school.

Quote from: patriotdad on November 22, 2013, 10:29:18 AM

I understand the need for classroom is greater than the need for an elementary gym.  But we cannot discount the the need for a gym as just for "sports".

You have a gym! The School Board also has a pending contract with the church to be used as a gym.

What more do you want for sports?

And least you forget the Moline Grade School Building has a gymnasium.

But that isn't in Howard is it?

Quote from: Brodys dad on November 22, 2013, 11:01:24 AM
Patriotdad,

Very well said, you make several very good points.  I'm sure the conspiracy theorists will try to find some flaws in your remarks.

Brodys dad, you knew there were plenty of holes in all that sport gibberish and pointed it out right away.

Brodys dad, so you think politics is a conspiracy, very interesting !

Very, very interesting. Can we learn some more of your philosophical thinking ?

Ho-weird is this thread.

It really came out that this is mostly about sports didn't it?

Ho-weird is that real eduction takes back seat?

Ho-weird this thread went quiet so suddenly?

Ho-weird the Followers ran out of steam?

Ho-weird is that?

Be smart, be sensible,   be frugal, re-open the Moline Grade School and save millions and problems solved.

This is not "mostly about sports" and "real eduction" didn't "take a back seat".  A few people tried to give some reasons why they feel the expansion is needed that the older generation may not be aware of because they no longer have kids in school.  By the way it's spelled EDUCATION not "eduction". 

Some of us have jobs and lives.  I'm sorry that you don't and things tend to go "quiet" for you at times.

As far as "ran out of steam", you might be on to something there.  My time is to valuable to spend arguing with someone who thinks everyone is out to get him.  So with that, I'm done.

I am glad that the men and fathers of our school children are speaking up about the school situation.  Too many times the women and mothers have to carry the load and despite what we all know about the supremacy of women, they are not taken as seriously as are men.

I didn't use to think that sports were important until I saw a young man that wouldn't have been able to go to college, go, because of the sports scholarship that he earned.

Scholastics are still the most important, but not every child excels in that capacity.  Extra curricular gives them a chance to excel at something of their own, be it sports, music, etc.  And isn't school supposed to prepare them for living as an adult?  What better preparation could they have than gaining the self esteem that excelling gives them?

Quote from: Brodys dad on November 22, 2013, 04:00:44 PM
This is not "mostly about sports" and "real eduction" didn't "take a back seat".  A few people tried to give some reasons why they feel the expansion is needed that the older generation may not be aware of because they no longer have kids in school.  By the way it's spelled EDUCATION not "eduction". 

Brodys dad, are you Hep? Are you Konnected?

So you don't reckon us olden folks have a clue, is that right sonny?
My goodness, we really need yer great wisdom and guidance, and your abundant life experience, don't we? Let's here it from all you old folks out there, does any of you'uns have a clue about life and how to live it.

After all we shouldn't even be on this here new fangled internet thingy should we? I read where the school board doesn't think we understand the importance of this new technology stuff. We are just to old to comprehend anything, don't ya know? LOL

Quote from: Brodys dad on November 22, 2013, 04:00:44 PM

Some of us have jobs and lives.  I'm sorry that you don't and things tend to go "quiet" for you at times.

Brodys dad, I too am somebody's dads if that makes some difference to you.

And yes he is in school.
And I am very active with his education.
The teachers know me, the principal knows me and his teachers know me quite well.
And I can only suppose that I spend more time at school than most fathers.
I am not claiming that last statement as a fact, that is why I said, "suppose".

But for your personal information none of that has anything at all to do with paying the School Districts property taxes does it?
Nor does any of it have anything to do with being a voter in the School District, does it?

There just seems to be some kind of a delusional concept about knowledge of knowing how a school should function, if a person does not have children at the present time.

Fer instance if ya don't have a child in school at the present time, even though you may have raised four children and may have even seen them graduate from college, you have no knowledge of what school is all about and cannot serve on the school board. Poppycock. That is the kind of narrow minded thinking we do not need in this school district, but it is exactly what we do have, in some people on the present School Board! That is my opinion. And that sir, comes from attending School Board Meetings.

If you would care to check, I believe you would find that very few if any of the Kansas Department of Education Members have children in grade school or high school.


And now that we see you are an edumacated, self appointed spelling officer of the internet, how interesting. Did you ever consider the fact that perhaps it was a simple typographical error, perhaps a missed key while typing? You did not fully use your critical thinking powers did you? My sincerest apologizes for that! Note: the line just below in the nest quote you state, "My time is to valuable", that should have read "too".
Ya see it is a two way street. But I gotta inform you I am just a redneck un-edumacated hick, so please forgive all my ignorant mistakes please sir.

Quote from: Brodys dad on November 22, 2013, 04:00:44 PM

As far as "ran out of steam", you might be on to something there.  My time is to valuable to spend arguing with someone who thinks everyone is out to get him.  So with that, I'm done.

Well, well we seem to have learned a couple of things about you with this response from you. Such as: just being a bit overly sensitive in the political arena. You see, not everything is aimed directly at you, because you are not the only person on the internet, the forum or this thread and neither am I. Please see note above about edumaction and spelling. Sarcasm intended.

There you go, I say again, there you go ass/u/me (ing) again! I don't think for one minute Sir that anyone is out to get me in a conversation. Such ideas you got in yer head, amazing. Just amazing! Sarcasm intended

Oh, about that valuable time thingy in your head! I may not be employed by somebody at the present time but I did put in nearly 50 years working for other people and at excellent wages without all that college edumacation. It afforded me the ability to retire to my own business with out any debts. My little business with me appointed as Chief  Financial Officer working right below my Chief Executive Officer (my wife)  working as a team on our little retirement keeps our time very occupied and our time in this life very valuable as well.

Ya seem to take all this to personal, son! Lighten up just a bit befer ya git one of them thar ulcer thingy's, there is nothing official going on just yet, don't cha see!  Them School Board people are just a fishin! They got this thing planed out to fail come April and already have intentions for November, see.  Okay, ok !

Now what was the real subject, that's right, now it's coming back to this old man. But first I gotta find my hearing aids so I can hear what I'm a typin. Can seem to see the causin of these durn ole cataracts. Perhaps, if I can find my teeth, I could then find my glass so as I could see. Can you understand the advantage of old age? It's fun, don't ya see!

Yea we were talking about building a horizontal Eiffel Tower weren't we? No now let's see, it was a Cadillac wasn't it.  No, no, no it's Taj Mah ego booster for sporting events for How-weird. Now that's right, isn't it?  I did spell that right didn't I ?  Other wise instead of going deeply in debt and over spending fer a fancy building, they would consider a much better an frugal idea wouldn't them folks? That's that school building with a gymnausim an a auditorium and class rooms and a cafeteria and even indoor toilets with with runnin water. That that building in Moline called a Grade School. Howsabout that thar idean!

This post been so much fun to put together, I sure hope some of you folks out got at least a smile out of it. Thank you for reading all this nonsense. This is my disclaimer, thank you!

Brodys dad, there is plenty of School information posted at:                          https://app.box.com/s/7nbnimqqr6b2tkzudw6f   if you might want to see some interesting stuff about West Elk. Thank you for sharing with us.


                     

Yes I am quoting myself, only as a refresher! The School Board is apparently gathering data for some reason, but for what reason? That data is your age group, where you live with in the school district, do you have children at West Elk, whether you rent or own your property. Then they provide a warning alert (no they did not call it that but that is what it is): "The Board will not divulge personally identifiable information about any person who completes this survey." Just why do you suppose they require this disclaimer?

Remember we have Elk Konnected School Board Members? To me this whole survey stinks of Elk Konnected.

Remember how they behaved when they had control of our County Government?
They commandeered our County Web site for their own use, didn't they?
They also commandeered our County Emergency Call System as well, didn't they?

So what is the real purpose of the requested information?
Who is putting together such a database?
For what purpose?

Quote from: ROSS on November 22, 2013, 10:31:38 AM
What a ridiculous survey the School Board put together.
Are they into marketing?
Are they kin to NSA ?

Why do they think they need  personal information on this survey?

I am not about to fill out age group or the primary residence information. Will you?

Or whether I am a renter or owner, or if I have children enrolled or not attending West Elk, because this information is irrelevant to the topic. They are trying to gather information they do not need. But for what reason? Will you bow down to them? They received their list from the court house on who the voters are, I'm sure. But when they have public meeting to discuss things like this one they have scheduled, will they ask for voter identtification cards to get in. "NO". Simple isn't it?

Their letter is addressed near the top as:
                                   To:       West Elk USD#282 Registered Voters

Simply write, "Re-open the Moline Grade School" across the form.
All their needs will be full filled.

What stinks - er - smells worse me or this coniving? I just took a shower and put on clean clothes!

LOL big time.

The reason for this post is to point out another possible way of gathering data on you and your family. Does the School or the School Board need to keep a data file on you? Or is it for Elk Konnected via the Elk Konnected School Board Members?   I think we have enough From NSA spying on our every move and conversation.   But You decide for your self!

Please read the following article!



While it is unclear if this is explicitly a Common Core assignment or not, a group of students today in Tupelo, MS had quite an interesting assignment. The sixth graders at Milam Elementary were given an assignment to do in class, and they were not to discuss this assignment with their parents.

Naturally, telling a group of kids between the ages of ten and eleven to not tell their parents about an assignment is probably the surest way for them to tell their parents. In fact, it is typically a way to ensure a student sneaks a copy home.

The reason why this is so concerning is that Tupelo prides itself on data driven instruction. Now, data is nice if it helps you figure out if a student needs extra help in a particular area. However, what if that effort is aimed at monitoring the political views of a student? What if there is a shift in student opinion to say, the wrong opinion on gun control or say the wrong opinion on right to life issues? Is the school collecting data toward that end to monitor the political beliefs of these young children? As you check out the school district's video on data driven instruction, ponder for a moment where does monitoring education end and monitoring indoctrination begin?

Then, consider the assignment below. According to a local clergy, this is the assignment that one of these young sixth grade children was given in class. They were told not to tell their parents about the assignment. I find that part disconcerting right there.

The next is the topic: Are you a Republican or a Democrat? I wonder what ever happened to teaching children that they were Americans? Why is there an effort to monitor political opinions so early in a child's life?

Do the parents in Tupelo, MS need to have a conversation with the school board about monitoring for indoctrination versus education? Why were the children told NOT to tell their parents about the assignment? Is this a pre-test of attitudes with another test to be given later? Is this part of the data driven education, to monitor the attitudes and beliefs of students?

While it may seem far fetched, parent political views are part of the P-20 data collected in data driven schools. Why not the child's political views?

In the era before "data driven instruction" an assignment like this might have been received differently. In light of "data driven instruction," are student opinions on this assignment part of the "data?" After similar incidents with surveys in Maryland and other places, it does prompt one to wonder if this is now part of the data.

As a side note to the teacher, she doesn't quite have Republicans corrected stated, unless one is going strictly on party platform. For example under abortion, there are quite a few Republicans pro-choice Republicans. I am not one, but I have met many who are, and I have met many Democrats who keep trying to change their party platform on the matter. Abortion is one of those issues that is difficult to draw a partisan line upon. Even so, I am rather shocked that a teacher is discussing it with ten and eleven year olds.

Further, gun control is another issue that is not strictly partisan. In the part of the world I live in, there are Democrats with a stronger commitment to the second amendment than some Republican Governors, like Chris Christie.

As far as gay marriage is concerned, this teacher has apparently not heard of Log Cabin Republicans. But what I find even more troublesome is that gay marriage is being discussed by a teacher in the classroom. I find it disturbing that a government employee, which is what a public teacher really is, is having a conversation with children of this age on this topic.

Quite frankly, wouldn't classroom time be better spent teaching something like, math, geography, science, art, or music? Maybe it is just me, but I have to wonder political affiliation of 6th graders is a priority in this country? Perhaps more of the basic and less of the politics would bring about higher test scores that these politicians seem to expect from our nation's youth.

http://freepatriot.org/2013/11/23/dont-tell-your-parents-6th-grade-assignment-at-milan-elementary-ms/

I am going to post this at: 
http://www.cascity.com/howard/forum/index.php/topic,11780.5860.html  I feel this is important enough to be discussed. Do we want our children to be used for data mining?


Be smart, be sensible,   be frugal, re-open the Moline Grade School and save millions and problems solved.

I want to take this opportunity to wish each and every one of you a Happy Thanksgiving.

I am thankful for my little 60 acre retirement homestead here in Elk County.

And I am thankful for the local folks of Elk County that have helped me learn many things about farming and ranching along my way.

I am thankful for the folks that have encouraged me and argued with me on this thread.
    Why you may ask? Because none of this is taken personal, I have no animosity towards any one.  With out each of you this thread would never have happened.
                  Thank you!

I am thankful for my clean bill of health received from my doctor today.

I am thankful for the house full of company I will have tomorrow to share Thanksgiving with.

I have nieces and nephews and great nieces and nephews arriving from out of town early tomorrow morning and I am very thankful for each and everyone of them.

Oh, least I forget! I am thankful to the owners of this forum for making it available for our use.

There are far too many things I am thankful for to continue.

Right back atcha Ross! happy Thanksgiving to you, and all my forum friends!  :D :D

Yes, I know, I quoted myself from: http://www.cascity.com/howard/forum/index.php/topic,11780.msg215385.html#msg215385

Why because these progressive liberals keep starting new threads about this subject, I'll leave it up to you to decide why they do that. Okay, OK!

Quote from: ROSS on December 02, 2013, 07:54:26 AM
This is what real leadership in a School Board should be concentrating on, instead of building a Grade School that is not needed. Concentrate on education and the misuse of it. This is effectively re-writing history or flat out omitting true history. Is this what we want for our children, is this what the School Board wants for our children, a lack of a full education?

It appears the Federal Government wants less then a full education for the Kids, Doesn't it?
Is this related to the critical thinking of which the School Board has made numerous remarks about, that they want to teach at West Elk?

Well is it?

Is it Possible To Teach Students The Meaning Behind President Abraham Lincoln's Gettysburg Address Without Mentioning The Civil War?

Common Core Instructs Students to Learn About Gettysburg Address Without Mentioning Civil War

According to the government's new Common Core education standards, the Gettysburg Address must be taught without mentioning the Civil War and explaining why President Lincoln was in Gettysburg, Pennsylvania.

The Student Achievement Partners instructions tell teachers to, "Refrain from giving background context or substantial instructional guidance at the outset...This close reading approach forces students to rely exclusively on the text...and levels the playing field for all students as the seek to comprehend Lincoln's address."

(See a Video at:)  
http://nation.foxnews.com/2013/12/01/common-core-instructs-students-learn-about-gettysburg-address-without-mentioning-civil

While the School Board is busy teaching Critical Thinking how about throwing in a little Frugality the quality of being economical with money; thriftiness.

Add to that a little bit of education in Constraint, by an act of employing some Constraint. EG,  by Practicing some Constraint now.

After all, if the School Board can not practice it how can they hope to have it taught?

 

Be smart, be sensible,   be frugal, re-open the Moline Grade School and save millions and problems solved.

Be Smart,     Be Sensible,     Be Frugal