The new Board of County Commissioners has taken actions to place more control in the hands of individual taxpayers and voters by trying to curtail non-essential government spending, reducing the tax burden on citizens, and two of our commissioners have become more personally involved in county government management & direction in the full view of the public. These actions tend to support individuality & the right of the individual to be free from overburdening government control in their lives. The new board appears to be moving away from the liberal, progressive model that says government is the solution to all of our wants and needs and toward a model that more closely resembles that embodied in the ideas of the founders of this country. One that relies more on individual responsibility and accountability & less on an all knowing government.
In light of these moves to simplify our local government, and given the subsequent public outbursts from what appears to be a local group of elitists supported by the editorial efforts of a local newspaper, and given that that these tantrums have extended themselves even to this forum with such vigor, it might be time to look at the reactions of what have been labeled our 'Community Leaders" by that same newspaper (and their followers) in light of the following:
From Liberalism: Psychosis, evil or ignorance? by psychiatrist, Dr. Lyle Rossiter, the author says,
The adult drive toward omnipotent control of others, in any arena whatever, is rooted in fears of separation, abandonment loss or abuse--the residual effects of early attachment gone wrong. The need to dominate others arises from the tyrant's need for absolute assurance that the catastrophic loss of dependency or the pain of abuse so devastating to him in his earliest years will not be repeated."
"Like spoiled, angry children, they rebel against the normal responsibilities of adulthood and demand that a parental government meet their needs from cradle to grave..."
From non-targeted tax rebate programs designed to reach only a few entitled members of their clique to child entertainment programs run by a government overseer and promoted by these same few who now so vigorously protest, there seems to be a core group who are addicted to government being involved in every conceivable area of the lives of our citizens. From protests to petitions, to salivating over county spending on city streets the impassioned pleas of these self proclaimed 'community leaders' indeed look a lot like spoiled, angry children. At first pleading their case with tears of emotion and, when rejected by the valid authority, throwing themselves to the floor, holding their breath and kicking their feet.
A link to the rest of the story: http://www.cascity.com/howard/forum/index.php/topic,14673.0.html
(http://www.cascity.com/howard/forum/index.php/topic,14673.0.html)
It seems to me that the real purpose of these people protesting the loss of certain benefits to the children of our county is personal. Personal in the fact that anything that brings parents bringing children to free entertainment, brings those parents to the businesses on main street. Those parents acquaint themselves with what they can find iin Elk County without going off to Independence, Eureka, El Dorado, Winfield or even Wichita. Why wouldn't our business people want to keep something that brings strangers to our fair cities and to the amenities that we can offer? Who knows what strangers might take a liking to our simpler life and move themselves and their children to a better living standard. Who knows what these strangers might impart to their relatives and friends who are also looking for a better life. Isn't that the whole purpose of trying programs that haven't been done before. To promote our county and to entice more new citizens. I guess it doesn't really make a difference if Elk County is never heard of again. We can just remain a wide spot on Highway 99 where you can get gas on one side of the highway and a hamburger on the other side. Gads, we don't even have a big sign on the north side of town proclaiming that you are now entering Howard, a beautiful place to be. I don't think there is one on the south side of town, either.
Wilma:
I think the crux of the whole shebang is HOW they did it....and for that, I do beliieve it was underhanded and unethical.
The thought was there as you said, however the method was not okay for me, if I was a taxpayer in your county
ready
Well said, Mother.
is there a chamber of commerece in Howard?
Yes, there is a Howard Chamber of Commerce. It is composed of the same people that have to do everything else, too. Besides, their funds are limited.
Ready, would you explain for me and to anyone else just what you mean by the way they did it? Maybe I don't know as much about it as I think I do.
Wilma:
Via the past Commission's handling of the Youth Developments position.
The idea of coordinator is a good idea to coordinate all Youth groups: 4-H; Church; Scouts,etc.
The person was paid by the taxpayer's obligations, and then were dispersed to a specific cause, one of which was highly recognized as a member of said cause. That is a conflict of interest as well as underhanded.
If the Chamber would have hired this person, I wouldn't be so leery.
ready
That explains nothing. Be specific in who did what and why it shouldn't be done with tax money. I can't see how promoting the county is misusing tax money.
QuoteI can't see how promoting the county is misusing tax money.
In that I agree with you. HOW they promoted, and that was from within. I am speaking of 2 out of 3 commissioners voting for something that they themselves were invested in.
Yes, the county needs to promote growth. Yes, the taxpayers should have a say in it.
ready
Just a note. There was no Elk River Festival last year, one thing that was bringing people into our county and to the businesses here. Instead, we had a "drive by ". Shouldn't the "economic developer" have seen to it that one of the positive events was carried out.
I am well aware that the chamber has been in charge of it. Whatever help to make it happen should have been rallied by the person in that position.
We also have and ECCFED Elk County Committee for Economic Development.
Where are they ???? What are they doing ??? What have they done ???
Isn't the Chamber of Commerce supposed to be for Economic Development???
It has been brought to my attention that I seem to be saying that Howard IS Elk County. Sorry about that. Howard is where I live and, of course, the town that I leave and enter the most. I digressed in that I have had a personal peeve about the lack of advertising of Howard's businesses, etc. where it can be seen by highway traffic. There is a sign placed quite a ways from the edge of the highway and too small to be easily noticed. Right now I can't say what the sign says. I have trouble reading it from the highway.
My apologies to the other small cities in Elk County; Moline, Grenola, Elk Falls and Longton. I do not think of Howard as being Elk County or vice versus. I am well aware of the other towns and enjoy their contributions to the Prairie Star. In my defense, however, Howard is the county seat of Elk County and as such, should be focused on promoting the county. Any promotion of any of the towns in Elk County should be a promotion of Elk County. The towns should work together in planning and how better to do this than to have a coordinator in a central position. When we divide the assets and think only of each town, we are dividing the county. Yes, each town knows best what it needs and how to use available assets, but how is it's individual needs going to unite the county unless there is someone who knows what the other towns need and are planning? An Elk County Chamber of Commerce, perhaps?
Quote from: Jo McDonald on February 18, 2013, 09:52:21 AM
We also have and ECCFED Elk County Committee for Economic Development.
Where are they ???? What are they doing ??? What have they done ???
Isn't the Chamber of Commerce supposed to be for Economic Development???
Jo, ECCFED was dissolved in 2005, while I was Director of Economic Development for Elk County. It was down to only six or seven members, and for various reasons no other citizens wanted to join and take up the reigns from those last few.
I proposed a new organization to the commissioners at the time, writing a set of bylaws that would make it a true advisory panel to the commissioners and myself, and be very geographically representative of the entire county, but the idea went nowhere.
Flint:
QuoteI proposed a new organization to the commissioners at the time, writing a set of bylaws that would make it a true advisory panel to the commissioners and myself, and be very geographically representative of the entire county, but the idea went nowhere.
What about proposing that same idea now, 8 years later for the good of the county?
redy
Interestingly, discussions regarding dissolution of the the youth 'development' program at the county level once again turn to economic development. A function that the commission has not changed.
Even so, this thread was really about the overt reactions of a small group to changes regarding the youth 'development' position. Reactions by self proclaimed community leaders that closely resembles the reactions of a spoiled adolescent teenager who has been told she can't wear the revealing dress & heavy makeup to the school dance. Even extending to begging the commission continue to spend taxpayer monies on the person in that position even if the youth development staff position and program were defunct.
Almost looked like the 'leaders' were more interested in spending to save one employee's pay & benefits than they were in saving the rock walls, water slides & after school movies as they originally argued. Go figure. What is their real motivation?
A careful observer might argue that the drive was not so much about the kids as it was in keeping a valuable 'volunteer' member of the Elk Connected, LLC steering committee in a position to be compensated & insured at taxpayer expense.
That's how it looks from here - just another taxpayer-government financed employment program.
In other words, you don't believe that Elk County should do anything to help keep our youngsters from leaving Elk County when they can because there isn't anything available for their children's entertainment. If that is a long ways down the road now, then when do we start trying to keep our youngsters in Elk County? When do we start encouraging them to plan a future in this county instead of needing to move away to find what they want in life? If they have to go abroad now for their entertainment, why would they stay in Elk County as adults? What is Elk County doing to encourage our young to participate in a life here instead of larger counties? What do they have to look forward to for their children except above average schools?
Two things come to mind:
Entertainment is not developing a child's mind. It is blind babysitter. Yes, they need to be entertained, as well as deveolp skills.
Computer training for those that don't have one? Music lessons for those that hear the song? Paints and easels for those that draw of which they cannot speak?????
How bout hauling hay bales to know the value of good work ethics?
This is farming community, Wilma.
My question is: Are we trying to make it similar to Wichita? If so, I would move out in a heartbeat!
We start keeping our youngsters in the county, by educating the parents as WELL as the youth!
ready
Ready, I have to disagree that "entertainment is a blind baby sitter." It certainly doesn't have to be.
Some have mentioned a bounce house from time to time.. If the kids are allowed to see how it works, they can learn about air pressure and volume, air expansion and contraction, gravity, oxygen, muscle contraction and expansion. How can we jump higher? or lower? How can we make ourselves stop? What happens if we all jump at the same time? Why do we bump into each other? How many will fit inside? Why not more? Can we jump and breathe at the same time? Do we get tired? Why? and more. Sure, it's fun and kids can learn without even knowing they are doing it. " Play is the work of children." Now think about a slip and slide.. beyond fun, what can kids learn? How about a ball house?
I agree to a point, Diane. If one doesn't discuss those properties of fun afterwards or in a classroom before, then it is just that....blowing off energy.
My point is to EDUCATE while still having fun....One can, and still have fun, not just throw them at it.
ready
Slip and Slide? that follows into geometry and science. Volume vs trajectory.
Balls to the wall? (well I just made that up, but could be a trajectory/force learning tool)...sotr of like learning to play pool.
Too many times we offer something to the kids, but never follow through on the learning experience.
ready
Yup, that's exactly right. That's where parents can get involved too. Just like all the sneaky ;) learning that can happen on a trip to the grocery store. You have definitely got it!
My point is that what the children enjoy, they will remember. They will tell their cousins, friends from other places, anyone that will listen and it will all be good, about living in Elk County. Their memories about the good times they had as children will bring them back with their families. Think about it a minute. Why are you living where you are right now? Did you make a choice and on what was that choice based? Are you living in Elk County because it is the only place in the world or did you choose to live here? In some cases, both could be true. For me, there is no other place in the world and I chose to live here rather than try to make another place like Elk County. Sure it isn't perfect and the memories of a childhood in Elk County are not mine. I have no memories of a long term residence anywhere. But Elk County comes as close as I can get.
I have children, grandchildren and great grandchildren living here. I hope that they can experience some of the bigger world without having to live in the bigger world. That is what the rock wall and the other experiences that have been mentioned do for the children. Soccer will never catch on in Elk County, but why shouldn't the young ones experience it first hand? Get to know more about it so that when they do have to be a part of the bigger world, they won't appear to be country hicks. What about this art experience that some took part in? I don't know much about that, but I wish I could have had a chance at it when I was a lot younger. Sorry, I could go on all afternoon about this, but it is time for my nap.
And, in keeping with the original thread: Economic Development - doesn't this sweat with the youth, parents and community for all of Elk County? Not just Howard?
ready (Yes, there needs to be a big sign on the North side of Howard to say "Entering Elk County, a land of growth!)
ready
Quote from: Diane Amberg on February 18, 2013, 02:01:34 PM
Ready, I have to disagree that "entertainment is a blind baby sitter." It certainly doesn't have to be.
But then, you haven't been watching the Elk County/Elk Konnected process up close.
Not on the north side of Howard. Way up north on the county line. Then another one close to Howard, listing all the businesses in town. Then another sign listing the churches. Moline has some nice signs at each side of town. Since I don't travel 160 much anymore, I can't say what the other towns have. Grenola does have a nice setup on the highway that catches your attention. Where are the promotional signs for Elk County?
"Where are you from?"
"Howard or Elk Falls or Grenola or............"
"Where is that?"
"Elk County"
"Where is that? Is that in Kansas?"
Wilma: I HAD to come back. I left because there was nothing in this area for me to experience with knowing now what is out there .
Yes, kids tell their cousins, etc...however they say "wow, cool thing you can bounce up and down on , and they gave you free food!"
Doesn't give you a learning experience. Just gives you an elated feeling to that time.
I had that once growing up, then it all became a reality. I learned what I learned from those that are still here, and it hasn't changed in 65 years, if not more. That is sad.
I am proud to be from this area and geaneology (5th generation). It doesn't mean I agree with the "Good Ole Boy's Club" of Delegating. I am NOT my father, NOR my mother.
I am hear to learn and teach.
ready
Quote from: readyaimduck on February 18, 2013, 02:39:30 PM
And, in keeping with the original thread: Economic Development
While I agree with much of what you're saying, Economic Development is not in keeping with the original thread. Paying for child entertainment or funding a private company's steering committee member with taxpayer monies would be the original point.
QuoteBut then, you haven't been watching the Elk County/Elk Konnected process up close.
Patriot: I have moved past that since page 3546.
Move forward, and correct!
ready
sorry, I was typing and didn't give pause.
Now, to answer you: I agree!
It should come from a county Chamber, of which has not been formed. Elk Konnected is old hat, I believe.
Howard needs to reach out to the other small towns and bind a bond, if you will.
ready
I wonder if the local focus that has been placed on 'giving youth something to return to' based on entertainment functions isn't misguided. Being the kid's 'best friend' negates what they really need for development. And if we wok to develop life skills and a good work ethic, then the next step might be a productive job to return to. No?
nailed it! Now, how to implement?
ready
Quote from: readyaimduck on February 18, 2013, 02:55:21 PM
nailed it! Now, how to implement?
ready
Exactly where the current commission is headed... remove the past debris and then focus on a new direction.. A direction focused first on responsible uses of taxpayer/government resources while not ignoring the need to present a positive image of the county to the outside world... beginning with a less burdensome tax structure, drivable rural roads and well managed fire & ambulance services.
Quoteresponsible uses of taxpayer/government resources
If they can do that, then God be with them!
ready
Why does everything have to be about learning? Can't a child just have a fun time? Playing and learning at the same time would be ideal, but it isn't the way the world spins for an adult. Working is what we do so we can play. The fun times is what a person remembers about home and makes them want to come back. Listen to me. I think I am debating myself. I was saying that the play time provided by the county was helping the children learn about the rest of the world and now I am saying that they shouldn't have to learn while they play. I am going to shut up.
Quote from: Wilma on February 18, 2013, 08:48:35 PM
Why does everything have to be about learning? Can't a child just have a fun time?
Absolutely! Is asking that they not do it at taxpayer expense a problem?
when ever we talk about Elk county i call it the Kansas Ozarks,when the kids tell there cousins about here they talk about fishin,hiking,friends at school,picnics....country lifestyle.If someone else wants that they'll find it if not they wouldn't be interested any way.
Quote from: Patriot on February 18, 2013, 09:05:58 PM
Absolutely! Is asking that they not do it at taxpayer expense a problem?
Good question. I'm thinking it could be a problem to those who are indoctrinated to the "progressive community"
and supportive of it.
Progressive Community = Communism
Quote from: redcliffsw on February 19, 2013, 10:11:20 AM
Progressive Community = Communism
Unfortunately, since the end of the Cold War, and in light of school curricula that places more emphasis on perceived equality, The Vagina Monologues & iPod athletics instead of comparative ideologies & cultural outcomes, we now have a generation that is painfully lacking in in any foundation by which to understand how the Progressive Movement is simply a linguistic twist on Socialism moving toward Communism. To astute observers & critical thinkers, the New AmeriKa is rising with startling speed.
Marxism, Socialism & Communism have resulted in the murder of more humans than all the AR-15s & 30 round magazines that liberals could ever hope to confiscate. History doesn't lie but so many refuse to learn from it. Looks like we'll be repeating it... again.
This has been some really amazing treading.
I can't comprehend the thinking of some people.
It amazes me.
Quote from: Patriot on February 19, 2013, 11:54:57 AM
Unfortunately, since the end of the Cold War, and in light of school curricula that places more emphasis on perceived equality, The Vagina Monologues & iPod athletics instead of comparative ideologies & cultural outcomes, we now have a generation that is painfully lacking in in any foundation by which to understand how the Progressive Movement is simply a linguistic twist on Socialism moving toward Communism. To astute observers & critical thinkers, the New AmeriKa is rising with startling speed.
Marxism, Socialism & Communism have resulted in the murder of more humans than all the AR-15s & 30 round magazines that liberals could ever hope to confiscate. History doesn't lie but so many refuse to learn from it. Looks like we'll be repeating it... again.
The Progressive Movement. By whatever name they answer... they are Fabians at root. They believe in central control of all aspects of life. They are at work beating our world into molten metal to create a new world to suit themselves. If you refuse to see the communists, you won't resist them, and that is perfect for them. That is their goal. These are the same ideas that murdered 150+ million people just last century, and these ideas have taken root and are starting to sprout in the U.S.
Our grandparents feared and loathed communists for good reason.... they watched the anti-life bastards murder millions and millions of people with their 'great leap forward,' and their politburo, and their planned famines. Same ol' communist ideas with a new slogan and new packaging.
Progressives are the new communists, period. If you don't believe they exist and are presently working to fell this nation, then you are a fool who is being walked to your doom.
Wake up!
Unfortunately... as it is today..... the American people are like the little dutch boy with his finger in the dam holding back the water! It's far to little and far to late! But never fear, you will still have your bread and circuses (foodstamps and football), the schools will still babysit your kids every day and you will have your elections!
And every two years you will hear the mantra 'This time we will fix it. Don't worry, this election is the one!'
Boys and girls continue with the delusion, accept the delusion, OR finally realize that we must discard the delusion and, of all the above, that is the most painful and dangerous thing to do because it is getting to a point that we can never return to our old constitution, not because it failed us, but human nature failed it! We have returned to Kings and Princes because we were lousy custodians of our liberty and were afraid to stop those that have taken it from us! Shame on Us!
Time to wake up, People!
...Warph
How do you justify increasing any budget line with no long term income stream to support it? You skip right over the massive road increase like it is a separate tax payer account that is off limits like a defense contractor balance sheet. How can a ten year population decrease equate to an increase in any expense? If we have had 10% decline in population then the budgets should decline at least that much. Services should be the lowest in the state because as stated numerous times we have the highest tax rate in the state. We should have the worst schools. We should have the worst roads. We should have poor health services. You can't bite more than you can chew.
What is the account balancing transaction after 8 more years? Lay off all the newly hired.
After we blow the other pilot funds. How do you maintain let alone grow? Or is that not a concern for you shorted sighted..... Get mine now let the grand kids figure out secession planning.
Quote from: Vitriol on February 21, 2013, 07:49:00 PM
How do you justify increasing any budget line with no long term income stream to support it? You skip right over the massive road increase like it is a separate tax payer account that is off limits like a defense contractor balance sheet.
The present spending levels are targeting what amounts to restoration of badly neglected RS roads. In that regard, the PILOT is a blessing. Perhaps if the previous board(s) had spent sufficient amounts to maintain the roads, the higher cost of restoration wouldn't be a present concern. Once restored, I would hope a responsible board would set a reasonable budget to properly maintain the condition of improved roads. A budget that is more assured with the income stream you mentioned.
Just what are the roads to be restored to? I have been driving Elk County rural roads since 1947 and they were no better then, than they are now. Nor have they ever been.
i live on these roads,they are gravel roads there is only so much you can do.what can you change by doing the same thing?Its nice to see they have been cutting out some trees,now if they could quit dumping road hazard shards on the roads it would be nice.If they are calling them road base,then someone should tell them they are suppose to put smaller ones on top.Has everyone forgot they got 1Million dollars from fema a few years back,never seen any change there.
Wilma, did you ever make it to the highway? In the late 40's and early 50's in my part of Chautauqua county most rural roads had no gravel on at all. We were always hoping the bus would get stuck going to school.
In the winter of '47-'48, my little brother and I were travelling 7 miles to Piedmont every day in that 1936 Chevy. We were used to dirt roads, having had the same thing for two years in Sumner County, except they were sandier and no rocks. There was one time that the Chevy didn't get us through the mud. It wouldn't start and trying to pull it to get it started only resulted in burying it. Is this what the roads are to be restored to?
We didn't have a school bus.
Since there hasn't been any appreccialble amount of moisture on the roads they have put rock on, until now, the addition of said rock has been a bit of a pain. Let's see how that rock reacts to having mud under it for the first time in a loooong time. I bet you will be getting down many roads that you would have needed four-wheel drive in the past. The fines all blew away, but you have to create a base to eliminate mud holes.
Quote from: Vitriol on February 21, 2013, 07:49:00 PM
If we have had 10% decline in population then the budgets should decline at least that much.
I believe the county operates on property taxes.
And although there has been a decline of population the amount of property in Elk County has not declined and property taxes continue to be collected.
The number of county roads have not declined and farmers/ranchers and others still use county roads plenty.
I seldom use county roads but I still use them.
Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.