HEAR YE, HEAR YE! Calling all subjects who are tired of high property taxes, help is on the way.... well sorta.
With the help of their Konnected Economic Development hack, Kommissioner Hendricks and her trusty sidekick, Yes Man Kommissioner Liebau, are set to push the Elk County Neighborhood Revitalization Plan across the finish line on November 26th. This obvious abuse of the Kansas tax provisions will likely be enacted on that date. In spite of several level headed objections by Commissioner Ritz. Including letting the new Board review this thing in January.
Taxpayers who are prepared spend at least $20,000 on 'improvements' (Liebau wanted it to be $40,000 - $50,000) will be able to claim a rebate of a large portion of any tax increase that results from the improvements made. Most other programs like this in Kansas set the investment requirement at a much more reasonable $5,000. Of course, we all know what giant percentage of residents will be able to spend 20 grand to take advantage of this sham. And, don't forget, there have already been several 'applications' taken.... before the plan is even in place. While the 'public hearing' on the plan will be at 1:05 PM on the 26th, I would bet that a room full of objecting citizens won't stop this freight train.
Even Former Attorney General Carla Stovall thinks the way we're doing this (essentially declaring the entire county blighted & thus needing 'revitalization') to be a problem...
ATTORNEY GENERAL OPINION NO. 96-38: ...it is doubtful that an entire municipality would meet such requirements and any attempt by the governing body to do so may subject the action to a legal challenge. In light of the legislative history, it is our opinion that the neighborhood revitalization act authorizes a municipality to designate only one or more areas for revitalization and not the entire municipality.
Legal challenge? You mean the course two of our Kommissioners are taking could get the county into an expensive lawsuit? Yep.
In a lame duck session of the County Commission, AND in spite of the vote of No Confidence she got in the general election, it seems that 'Lame Duck' Liz is determined to get her way. But, maybe she knows of a large employer who is planning to build in Elk County if this passes... but then why hasn't the public been told? Maybe because this is really more about favors to friends and family. Political Payback.
You, the public, can have your say on this... November 26, 2012 at 1:05 PM. County courthouse. Hope you can take off work to be there.
You can red the Kansas Statute that two of our Kommissioners are about to misuse here: http://kansasstatutes.lesterama.org/Chapter_12/Article_17/#12-17,114
(http://kansasstatutes.lesterama.org/Chapter_12/Article_17/#12-17,114)
Very well put Patriot!
Sounds just like the way NGO's connected with the United Nations Article 21 would do things.
Do we support the United Nations, aren't they the same ones that want to remove our gun rights and disarm our country?
I get all these NGO's confused.
But really are Elk Countians suppose to sit back and be railroaded into a scam ot this sort?
Will we remember these Konnected Kounty Kommissioners as scam artists?
I know, I will if they follow through with ths scam!
For years to come.
How much will the WELFARE/ kickback called a rebate be on a $200,000 home?
How much will the WELFARE/ kickback called a rebate be on a $2,000,000 improvement be?
That is the top end of the proposed "Neighborhood Revitalization Program" isn't it?
That would efinitely be a tidy some of WELFARE/ kickback called a rebate, now wouldn't it?
Why do you suppose the Konnected Kounty Kommissioners don't release that information?
Oh yes I will boycott any business that has family, friends or relatives that boycott paying their fair share of property taxes under this scam of a program. And I will ask my friends and neighbors and acquaintances to do the same. And that is not a scam!
Great Economic Development for Elk County isn't it?
Quote from: Ross on November 16, 2012, 03:08:24 PM
That would efinitely be a tidy some of WELFARE/ kickback called a rebate, now wouldn't it?
It's also potentially a helluva revenue loss to the county...
a county that already taxes property owners at rates higher than almost every other county in Kansas...
a county that can't afford to pay employee wages that keep up with inflation (and haven't for 5+ years)...
a county that already hasn't collected property taxes on a valuable chunk of Flint Oak for about 10 years...
a county that can't afford the labor force big enough to keep up with 700+ miles of roads...
a county with a crumbling courthouse that is expected to cost a ton to maintain in coming years...
a county that already has a rising tax delinquency rate...
a county that already spends like a drunken Marine on a post patrol binge (sorry Jar ;) )
All revenue returned, most likely, to taxpayers who least need the tax break and could most afford the taxes. And, short of a massive, screaming public outcry, will be all said and done in less than 2 weeks.
QuoteIt's also potentially a helluva revenue loss to the county...
Here is another potenial revenue loss to most counties that only look at special interests for themselves and not the good of the whole:
Tax sale for in arrear parcels. (late payments)
If your property is delinquent in taxes, the county has the authority to auction it off in a tax sale within a time frame per State Regs.
Some counties go
several years before this happens.
Think of it this way: If no revenue is coming in on the tax due...that equals 0.
If no revenue is coming in every year, and it is delinquent = 0 x yrs due = 0
So, you miss one year of taxes paid? Sell the SOB for the back taxes owed = revenue.
Why do the counties hate the tax sale?
Perhaps there has to be a title search from the Attorney and Reg of Deeds...(don't have time or manpower).
Have to set aside time and notify the public weeks in advance....another resource.
That would be income normally had, if not for the delinquent taxpayer.
Thoughts to suggest to the Public.
Ready
Quote from: readyaimduck on November 16, 2012, 08:49:21 PM
So, you miss one year of taxes paid? Sell the SOB for the back taxes owed = revenue.
That's about to happen here.... look for the first round in spring 2013.
It should happen every year!
Quote from: readyaimduck on November 16, 2012, 08:58:09 PM
It should happen every year!
Perhaps, but my original intent in mentioning it was to highlight the increased difficulty people may be having when it comes to paying the tax bills created by onerous tax rates.
And that does come in combination with the State and their Regs along with the comissioners and their Mil levy.
I am not so sure this 'incentive' is on the up and up.
Quote from: readyaimduck on November 16, 2012, 09:04:19 PM
And that does come in combination with the State and their Regs along with the comissioners and their Mil levy.
Yes it does, and local folks can have a more immediate influence on local events than they do on state level issues.... if they choose to.
They need to. The expeditures obviously exceed the assets, and the infrastructure, if all is mostly true....is crap.
The priorites need to be focused, not expanded at this time...IMHO.
ready to remember to sign my name
Quote from: readyaimduck on November 16, 2012, 09:08:38 PM
The priorites need to be focused, not expanded at this time...IMHO.
Amen!
Quote from: Patriot on November 16, 2012, 08:24:44 PM
It's also potentially a helluva revenue loss to the county...
a county that already hasn't collected property taxes on a valuable chunk of Flint Oak for about 10 years...
Doesn't Flint Oaks cater to the wealthy?
And if they are not paying their fair share of property taxes, doesn't that mean
we the people that pay our fair share are actually paying more then our fair share?
Meaning they are a burden on the Elk County Taxpayer?
Doesn't that make them a burden on the Elk County Road Department?
Quote from: Patriot on November 16, 2012, 08:24:44 PM
All revenue returned, most likely, to taxpayers who least need the tax break and could most afford the taxes. And, short of a massive, screaming public outcry, will be all said and done in less than 2 weeks.
We need this type of communications within Elk County, it is an intelectual asakening, IMHO!
That hearing should be over crowded by Elk County tax payers being heard by these Konnected Kounty Kommissioners?
There is absolutely no reason this particular business or any other business should not be paying their
fair share of property taxes, especially after ten years, leaving you to pay their share of taxes.
This is the same thing the proposed Konnected Kounty Kommissioners "Neighborhood Revitalization Program" will do to you as a property owner, it will simply increase the burden on you.
Don't worry folks these Konnected Kounty Kommissioners put their pants on just as you do, one leg at a time, also they are simply people just like you, perhaps not as good as you. so show up at the meeting, unless you like these high property taxes. Can you afford to pay other peoples share of property taxes, if you can then don't show up.
QuoteDoesn't Flint Oaks cater to the wealthy?And if they are not paying their fair share of property taxes, doesn't that mean
we the people that pay our fair share are actually paying more then our fair share?
Meaning they are a burden on the Elk County Taxpayer?
Careful there Ross. Catering to the wealthy has nothing to do with fair share of Real Estate Taxes, or Personal Propterty. Two different beasts.
Roads are roads...no matter if I or Ted Nugent drives them.
(edited to save the world)
ready
Quote from: readyaimduck on November 16, 2012, 09:19:24 PM
Careful there Ross. Catering to the wealthy has nothing to do with fair share. Two different beasts.
Okay Ready, that was a goof!
Quote from: readyaimduck on November 16, 2012, 09:19:24 PM
Roads are roads...no matter if I or Ted Nugent drives them.
(edited to save the world)
ready
But Ready isn't it our property taxes that pay for our county roads?
And are they not on a county road, I'm just saying we are paying for the maintenance on their county road so their wealthy customers can get to their establishment/business.
Perhaps, I'm wrong, but that's the way I see it.
I think I get what you are saying...just need to reword this.
You think because Flint Oak hasn't paid txes because ?????? Did they have a graduated tax agreement with the State? If so, please provided such.
Aand if the aabove is true, then since they only pay a certain amount, you as a taxpayer have to make up the difference in the rod maintenence?
If that is true, then it is not Flint Oak's issue, that is yours with your commissioners at their budgeting and priorities.
ready to lern to grade a road!...and get a new keyboaad!
If you wish to attack Flint Oak, is the county getting revenue from their boats, equipment.etc listed as Personal Commercial Property? I do hope so.
Since it was recently purchsed, did the Real Estate taxes follow the new owner?
ready....for bed
Well ready i thiught we were talking strictly Elk County property taxes and it's my understanding, that is the finances that the Elk County Road Department operates on.
And yes it is a matter to take up with the local Government.
Wait a minute are you pulling my leg?
i'm tired as well, good night everyone.
Quote from: readyaimduck on November 16, 2012, 09:29:12 PM
I think I get what you are saying...just need to reword this.
You think because Flint Oak hasn't paid txes because ?????? Did they have a graduated tax agreement with the State? If so, please provided such.
Aand if the aabove is true, then since they only pay a certain amount, you as a taxpayer have to make up the difference in the rod maintenence?
If that is true, then it is not Flint Oak's issue, that is yours with your commissioners at their budgeting and priorities.
ready to lern to grade a road!...and get a new keyboaad!
The major expansion of the Lodge at Flint Oak was financed utilizing the Industrial Revenue Bond program that has been available in the state of Kansas for many decades. Nearly every county and most cities of the first or second class in Kansas have utlized this state statute level program. Any project financed under this program carries with it a ten year ad valorem tax abatement on the property enhancements paid for with the bond proceeds. The tax abatement does not cover the entire property at Flint Oak, only that built using the bond proceeds.
I don't remember exactly which year this occurred (2002 or 2003), but it was already in the works when I was being interviewed for the county economic development position that I began in early 2003. And I don't remember if the ten years start at the time of approval of the bonds, or at the time construction is finished, but either way the ten year period should be coming to an end either this year or next. And yes the tax abatement transfers with transfer of ownership of the property.
An answer to exactly when this tax abatement ends could easily be obtained by contacting the county appraiser, or the county clerk.
Quote from: flintauqua on November 16, 2012, 11:00:29 PM
The major expansion of the Lodge at Flint Oak was financed utilizing the Industrial Revenue Bond program that has been available in the state of Kansas for many decades. Nearly every county and most cities of the first or second class in Kansas have utlized this state statute level program. Any project financed under this program carries with it a ten year ad valorem tax abatement on the property enhancements paid for with the bond proceeds. The tax abatement does not cover the entire property at Flint Oak, only that built using the bond proceeds.
I don't remember exactly which year this occurred (2002 or 2003), but it was already in the works when I was being interviewed for the county economic development position that I began in early 2003. And I don't remember if the ten years start at the time of approval of the bonds, or at the time construction is finished, but either way the ten year period should be coming to an end either this year or next. And yes the tax abatement transfers with transfer of ownership of the property.
An answer to exactly when this tax abatement ends could easily be obtained by contacting the county appraiser, or the county clerk.
I like that "Tax Abatement" just another way of saying "WELFARE", imho !
Isn't it time to wake up to being used, Elk County Citizens.
No wonder, Elk County has one of the highest tax levy's in the state of Kansas ~~~ ~~~
Flintauqua let me try to understand what you are saying.
The state government says the business doesn't have to pay their fair share of County property tax, right?
What say does the Elk County Commissioners have in this?
What say do the County taxpayers and County Voters have in this?
But, just the same, the rest of the property owners have to pay higher property taxes to pick up the slack for the loss of the fair share of property tax from such properties.
To me this just sounds like a bad deal for everyone else, that doesn't recieve this kind of welfare!
Oh yea, I'd like to know are the owners of the Lodge at Flint Oak, fifth generation Elk Countians or are they considered outsiders like I am ?
And the people that built the house south of West Elk School Grounds, are they fifth generation Elk Countians or are they also considered outsiders like me ?
Just curious.
Flintauqua do you happen to recognize at what time of day the Konnected Kounty Kommissioners, Elk Konnected, LLC holds their Konnected Kommunity Konversations ? Aren't they held during the evening hours, say 6 or 7 PM? Why do you suppose that is ? Perhaps because most people are off work and can perhaps attend the Konnected Kounty Konversations? Although very few normal people attend that circus' any more? Even when they call for
four Kansas Counties to come together, very, very few people show up. But the real point is, don't you think if these Konnected Kounty Kommissioners
Kould recognize the best hours for holding the
NGO's Konversations, that they
Kould recognize those hours as the best time to hold their Hearing for the proposed "Neighborhood Revitalization Program", so more taxpayers and voters can show up. Or is the purpose of holding the hearing at 2 pm being done so more peoplr won't show up?
Isn't the purpose of the hearing, to hear from the taxpayers and voters that are affected by this action?
Or is it, ~~~ the people of Elk County ~~~ don't count ? especially if they are not fifth generation born and raised here?
I bet, it wasn't that way 5 generations ago!
If we don't pay your property taxes within about 3 years, then the county will auction
it at their tax sale.
Yet, the elites get special treatment from the State that allows them not to pay taxes
for ten years.
Meanwhile, the government increases taxes to spend more money. Why are we building
bigger governments to care of people and corporations? And the government schools to
indoctrinate against American liberty - oh but they get such great math scores. You want
raise kids to be comminists who are great at math. Well, the Soviet Union did too.
Are our Konnected Kounty Kommissioners PubliK Servants or PubliK Avoiders?
Don't they want to engage the Elk County citizens like their Elk Konnected, LLC does?
If they are publiK servants they will hold their proposed, "Neighborhood Revitalization Program" HEARING in the evening so folks that have to work for a living may attend.
After all didn' these Konnected Kounty Kommissioners at one time talk of having County Commissioner meetings in the evening?
Well, this is something that is a bit more important to the publiK they serve. WILL they serve the publiKs best interest?
Does their NGO serve the best interest of the publiK by having their Konnected Kommunity Konversations, or is that about their own personal interest? Otherwise why don't they hold their Are our Konnected Kounty Kommissioners Public Servents or Public Avoiders?
If they are public servants they will hold their proposed, "Neighborhood Revitalization Program" HEARING in the evening so folks that have to work for a living may attend.
After all didn't these Konnected Kounty Kommissioners at one time talk of having County Commissioner meetings in the evening?
Well this is something, that is a bit more important to the publiK they are suppose to serve. Will they serve the publiKs best interest?
Does their NGO serve the best interest interest of the publik by having their Konnected Kommunity Konversations, or is that about their own personal interest? Otherwise why don't they hold their Konnected Kommunity Konversations at 2 PM.
What I am getting at, are the Konnected Kounty Kommissioners avoiding having the publiK they serve at the hearing?
It sure appears that way to me. They don't want publiK input, do they? They won't even discuss it with a fellow Commissioner at a County Commissioners meeting, will they?
Good job Konnected Kounty Kommissioners, good job! NOT!
They do have the controlling votes, why do they need any one else! At least until the end of the year, right?
What I am getting at, are the Konnected Kounty Kommissioners avoiding having the publiK they serve at the hearing?
It sure appears that way to me. They don't want public input, do they? They won't even discuss it with a fellow Commissioner at a County Commissioners meeting, will they?
Good job Konnected Kounty Kommissioners, good job! NOT!
They do have the controlling votes, why do they need any one else!
At least until the end of the year, right?