Elk County Forum

General Category => Politics => Topic started by: Patriot on November 15, 2012, 10:27:34 AM

Title: Constitutional Sheriff?
Post by: Patriot on November 15, 2012, 10:27:34 AM

Constitutional Sheriffs, the Purse and the Sword
By Noel Berge

The principle and concept of the constitutional sheriff could be the key to regaining state sovereignty.

It could wake people up at the county level and create a movement within any State, using the constitution as defined, and nullifying any federal intrusion, overreach or usurpation...

...The role of sheriff is being undermined in America today. The federal government is increasingly taking steps to negate local law-enforcement and usurp all such authority under the federal government. This is being done via DHS, TSA  and DEA, on the highways and in local airports. The feds supply funding to local law-enforcement and gaining control over them via their budget...


Article:  http://tenthamendmentcenter.com/2012/11/09/constitutional-sheriffs-the-purse-and-the-sword/ (http://tenthamendmentcenter.com/2012/11/09/constitutional-sheriffs-the-purse-and-the-sword/)

Title: Re: Constitutional Sheriff?
Post by: redcliffsw on November 15, 2012, 01:48:57 PM


A few weeks ago, I was at a courthouse in the elevator with a county sheriiff.

I asked him if he was ready to defend the citizens of his county against the Federals.
He just kinda grunted or stuttered , then exited when the door opened.
Title: Re: Constitutional Sheriff?
Post by: Sarge on November 16, 2012, 06:10:56 PM
According to the constitution, there is no law enforcement agency higher than the county Sheriff.  Most Sheriffs are not aware of the authority they have over federal agents.
Title: Re: Constitutional Sheriff?
Post by: Patriot on November 16, 2012, 08:28:03 PM
Quote from: Sarge on November 16, 2012, 06:10:56 PM
According to the constitution, there is no law enforcement agency higher than the county Sheriff.  Most Sheriffs are not aware of the authority they have over federal agents.

I guess ignorance is bliss.  Sad, ain't it? 

Title: Re: Constitutional Sheriff?
Post by: redcliffsw on November 17, 2012, 07:08:51 AM


Either that or they're Federalists - socialists.
Title: Re: Constitutional Sheriff?
Post by: Janet Harrington on November 17, 2012, 03:47:13 PM
When I was the undersheriff of this county, serving under Sheriff Jim Copeland, an FBI agent came to our office. We had quite the discussion about what authority different law enforcement agenices had. That agent is where I learned that the sheriff was the highest authority in his or her county.

Most of the sheriff that I served with for 17 years were aware of that because it was taught at the Kansas Law Enforcement Training Center. I don't know about now.

Federal agents cannot enforce state or local laws. The only thing that a sheriff cannot enforce is a city ordinance. If the sheriff gets sworn in by the city clerk to enforce city ordinances then and only then can a sheriff enforce that city's ordinances.
Title: Re: Constitutional Sheriff?
Post by: Fire Elk on November 17, 2012, 06:08:30 PM
Very interesting topic. I understand the Federal part of this discussion. What came up in my mind was the statement that the Sheriff was the highest authority. My question is that since the county and the city get their power from the state government, why isn't the state law enforcement agency the highest authority. Can the State law enforcement agencies not enforce any law in the state? Great topic educate me.
Title: Re: Constitutional Sheriff?
Post by: Wilma on November 17, 2012, 10:21:58 PM
The sheriff is the highest law enforcement authority in his or her county.  Not the state nor the federal outranks him inside his county.  Therefore, no matter the source of the city's authority, the sheriff still outranks the city inside the county.  As Janet said, though, the sheriff cannot enforce city ordinances without the permission of the city.
Title: Re: Constitutional Sheriff?
Post by: Fire Elk on November 17, 2012, 11:05:10 PM
Quote from: Wilma on November 17, 2012, 10:21:58 PM
The sheriff is the highest law enforcement authority in his or her county.  Not the state nor the federal outranks him inside his county.  Therefore, no matter the source of the city's authority, the sheriff still outranks the city inside the county.  As Janet said, though, the sheriff cannot enforce city ordinances without the permission of the city.

I can't find anything that says that the state law enforcement officials cannot enforce every law in the state, making them the top of the heap. I guess a better way to ask my question is what county law or city law a state law enforcement officer has no jurisdiction or legal authority to enforce. Very interesting topic, waiting for more education
Title: Re: Constitutional Sheriff?
Post by: mtcookson on November 17, 2012, 11:56:09 PM
Basically, the reason they're the top LEO is because they are the only LEO that are elected into office by the people.
Title: Re: Constitutional Sheriff?
Post by: Patriot on November 18, 2012, 12:03:16 AM
As for state officials, they are not charged, by their charter, with enforcing county or city ordinances.  They are charged with enforcing state laws.  This provides, in practice, a separation of police powers.  The sheriff, however, is a special critter by virtue of the way he derives authority (election by the citizens) coupled with his oath & charter (defending the constitution). His authority derives directly from the people & the Constitution is a document that limits the power of government while guaranteeing certain rights to the people & the states.

The key to understanding the authority of a sheriff begins in the word 'jurisdiction'.

ju·ris·dic·tion
[ jriss díksh'n ]   

1.    legal authority: the authority to enforce laws or pronounce legal judgments
2.    range of legal authority: the area over which legal authority extends
3.    authority: power or authority generally

Within  states & counties, cities & towns are distinct corporate governmental bodies comprising special geographic areas in which limited special legal authority exists.  Within cities/towns areas, the corporate body writes ordinances & appoints officials (police) with special authority enforce those laws.  The county, as a chartered political subdivision, also writes ordinances.  The sheriff, however, is a unique creature in law.  Here is a good article regarding the uniqueness of a sheriff:

The office of sheriff has a long and noble history. It dates back over a thousand years and originated in England. The sheriff is the only elected law enforcement official in America. He is the last line of defense for his citizens. He is the people's protector. He is the keeper of the peace, he is the guardian of liberty and the protector of rights. A vast majority of sheriffs will agree with all of this until they are asked to apply these principles of protection to federal criminals. Their backpeddling and excuses will be more plentiful than radar tickets and louder than sirens at doughnut time. Most of the unbelievers, who themselves have taken a solemn oath to "uphold and defend" the U S Constitution, will passionately and even apologetically exclaim that they have no authority or jurisdiction to tell federal agents to do anything, let alone stop them from victimizing local citizens. The truth and stark reality is that it's just the opposite; the sheriff has ultimate authority and law enforcement power within his jurisdiction. He is to protect and defend his citizens from all enemies, both "foreign and domestic."

...In Mack/Printz v USA, the U S Supreme Court declared that the states or their political subdivisions, "are not subject to federal direction." The issue of federal authority is defined even further in this most powerful Tenth Amendment decision.


( http://constitutionallawenforcementassoc.blogspot.com/ (http://constitutionallawenforcementassoc.blogspot.com/) )

In practice, it works this way:  Within the county jurisdiction (or legal geographic area), the elected sheriff has a special and unique authority and responsibility.  Extending ultimately to protecting the constitutional rights of citizens in that area from abuses of government.  That responsibility & authority encompasses the entire geographic area of a county, including cities & towns.  However, his authority does not extend to the enforcement of city imposed ordinances.  Those are corporate city matters.  If, however, the local ordinance and/or police were violating the constitutional rights of a citizen, the sheriff has both the authority & sworn duty to protect that citizen from that abuse.

Tell me if I'm missing something here, Janet.



Title: Re: Constitutional Sheriff?
Post by: Fire Elk on November 18, 2012, 12:52:19 AM
Thanks, Patriot for giving me a start. Here is the problem. I live in a small county near a city. Often we have State officers patrolling and enforcing our laws. Maybe this is due to Mutual Aid agreements. I am still looking for some explanation on how the State Officers are not the top authority. Still no one has said anything regarding that the State LEO cannot enforce every law in the State. I know they contact each other and have mutual aid and that makes this a little murky. Still everything I have read says that the ultimate officer is a state officer and they can enforce all laws Fed to City. Still asking just waiting for an education.
Title: Re: Constitutional Sheriff?
Post by: Wilma on November 18, 2012, 07:57:02 AM
State Law Enforcement Officers, in this state, the Kansas Highway Patrol, has jurisdiction over the state highways.  I would think that in small communities where there are no law enforcement officers, that there could be an agreement with the community that the state officers would patrol their streets occasionally.  However, it would be more likely that the agreement would be with the county law enforcement.  You miight iniquire of your city officials as to why the state LEO is patrolling the city streets.
Title: Re: Constitutional Sheriff?
Post by: Bullwinkle on November 18, 2012, 10:20:11 AM
       I was taught at Boy's State that our state troopers, KHP, have the power to enforce the law anywhere in the state, and do not have to abide by any city or county ordinances that conflict with doing so. If you have ever seen the movie Vanishing Point, you can see how each states troopers pursued the violator from state line to state line and not beyond.