After much cussun' & discussin'... THERE IS A PLAN!
At a special meeting of the Elk County Board of Commissioners tonight attended by many members of the public and most of our county road dept, some decisions were finally made.
The board recognizes that roads must be a continuing high priority for the county. A map plan was presented that calls for incremental restoration of some 200+ miles of RS/FAS (Federally Assisted Secondary) roads. While the federal assistance is long gone, the designation is still used. This includes ditch restoration, removal of the 'eyebrows' or 'curbs that restrict water flow into ditches, bridge repairs, culvert repairs/replacements, road crowning and widening, where needed, to the 30' specifications required for these roads. While this work may take several years to complete in total, it gives hope to citizens that progress is coming. Repairing the old FAS routes first will put most residents in much closer proximity to roads that will be much more passable and easier on the vehicles that travel them. Of course, continued basic maintenance to all county roads as needed is anticipated.
To accomplish this task, it's recognized that several things must happen. First, the road department must be enlarged by adding quality equipment operators so more work can be accomplished with existing equipment, some of which now sets idle due to a lack of people. The board approved adding up to four more crew members to the department.
Next, when roads are being prepared, proper packing of base material must be accomplished to help create a solid road structure that is more resistant to the effects of rain, snow and traffic erosion. As such, the board approved procurement of the machinery needed to properly pack material into the road bed... $60,000 was authorized for this equipment.
Finally it was recognized by the board that our wage structure has been happenstance and below prevailing rates for this part of the state. To attract & keep good people, we must be competitive. As such, a wage increase was approved with starting wages at about $11.00/hour as opposed to the current rate of slightly over $9.00/hr. Routine longevity increases will be evaluated and considered at future meetings. As a side note, there was an acknowledgement that employee wages in several other departments need to be re-evaluated as well.
The ultimate issue, as usual, was cost and revenue sources. The commission agreed to initially allocate slightly over $400,000 from the 2011 windfarm PILOT payment (about $850,000 currently in the bank) to the road department to achieve these goals. Some of that allocation will have to be used to provide for county born employee benefit costs (health insurance, employer payroll taxes, etc.). Discussions also included the possibility of future evaluations of the elimination of county debt so the monies currently servicing debt (note payments, etc.) can be reallocated to other current needs. Budget resolutions, amendments & hearings will necessarily follow to finalize these changes.
Bottom line? Change is coming! It will take time, but at this reading, it looks like we're facing reality & moving forward. Keep your hopes up, Elk County. Help may finally be on the way. Our roads didn't reach their current condition overnight and the fix will take some time. If I've missed or misstated anything here, I'll apologize in advance... the board covered a lot of road tonight, so to speak.
Personally, I commend our county board for having the courage to have this open, and occasionally uncomfortable, discussion in open public view and for taking steps that stand to improve the quality of life for residents and visitors in Elk County. Also to be commended are the citizens who provided input and general support for the process. As much as I have ranted about poor county management, tonight they generally stepped up to the bar as a team on this one. Thank you!
FAS Routes highlighted in yellow....
Wow! That's exciting news.
I sure am sorry, I forgot that meeting and wasn't there.
Thanks for posting this Patriot.
Thank you for reporting that, Patriot.
Quote from: jason clatt on April 30, 2012, 12:02:36 PM
I dont see the reason to piss away money on a gravel road...what needs to be done is get people to run the equipment tha actually knows how to make a road.
As you noticed, the road dept will be looking for operators soon. I'm sure if your qualifications & experience in road building is adequate, your application would be favorably considered. They have one helluva health insurance package too.
UPDATE: The road widths mentioned earlier were changed by the county commission today. The new width will be 24'.
Quote from: jason clatt on April 30, 2012, 07:43:10 PM
SO YOU TELL ME WHAT IS MORE IMPORTANT A DAMN GRAVEL ROAD THAT WILL ALWAYS BE BAD...OR PROTECTING THOSE WHO PROTECT US........
Should we buy a couple of helicopters for fire retardant dispersal and air ambulance too? Without some kind of road infrastructure, that ambulance is kinda useless, no? Perhaps you could attend te next commission meeting and express your concerns to the decision makers.
Quote from: Patriot on April 30, 2012, 08:47:36 PM
Should we buy a couple of helicopters for fire retardant dispersal and air ambulance too? Without some kind of road infrastructure, that ambulance is kinda useless, no? Perhaps you could attend te next commission meeting and express your concerns to the decision makers.
Yeah really i would love to see them get down rock road after a good rain. they'll sink like a rock in all those mud pits
Quote from: jason clatt on April 30, 2012, 07:43:10 PM
they cant even take care of what they got
You make a very good point Jason. How long has it been?
But they are getting started, at an attempt to get-r-done.
It will take time to get-r-done. It's a move in the right direction.
Quote from: jason clatt on April 30, 2012, 07:43:10 PM
why dont they help out with the towns in the county..longton needs a new fire station and proper bunker gear...120,000
howard needs a new ambulance barn with proper living area and a big enough area to store all the suplies needed..
moline is in need of a new ariel..100,000
Would you like a centrally located unified government located most likely in Howard. You'd pay your city and county tax to one entity? And have one governing body to make decisions for everyone in the county. Most likely not. Each community/city has it's own city council that has it's own city taxes which should be uesd for that community/city. You wouldn't want your city taxes in Longton used to pay for new street repairs in Howard would you? The county is responsible for county roads and county fire fighting equipment and other things, but they are not responsible for the various city/community owned buidings or equipment are they? Really i'm asking?
Quote from: jason clatt on April 30, 2012, 07:43:10 PM
but this stuff does not matter to any body..but when the fire dept is called yall expect them to put there LIFE AT RISK to save your house your kid your dog your wife..or you...and they expect us to do that without formal training and proper firefighting gear....
Seriously, I don't expect anyone to risk their life to save my house, or my dog, or anyones life. If you risk your life through failing to use common sense, saftey sense and equipment you are a hazard to the whole crew. My house can burn, once it is on fire I expect so much damage from the fire and water to put it out, that I'd just as soon see a pile of ashes and I'd prefer that over seeing any fireman hurt, injured or possibly killed. I have insurance and can replace the house, but I can't replace the firefighter.
Safety First.I worked on a volunteer fire crew years back, one man would go directly to each fire without eqiupment, he wanted to be first there, he wanted to be important, he wanted to be a hero. On one call he ran into a burning house, just to see if anyone was in there. No fire suit, no equipment, no fire hose, no backup. He was no hero, but he was working hard at trying to be one which made him a hazard to everyone.
Safety First. Dead firemen can not put out fires.
I had firefighting training for shipboard and on an Oil Company Pipeline and 100,000 barrel oil tanks.. On the pipeline we poured crude oil on a pond and set it on fire. We practiced putting the fire out with CO2 fire extinguishers and with fire hoses. The fire could be re-lit over and over. Easy training. I have seen old buildings that were ready to collapse and of no use to anyone, used by volunteeer fire departments for training, set them on fire and put them out. It depends on you local leadership and if you present the idea's to them.
Good luck.
Quote from: jason clatt on April 30, 2012, 07:43:10 PM
SO YOU TELL ME WHAT IS MORE IMPORTANT A DAMN GRAVEL ROAD THAT WILL ALWAYS BE BAD...OR PROTECTING THOSE WHO PROTECT US........
Perhaps, you should have a talk with the leaders of which ever community you live in. Think about giving that a try and good luck with that.
I would have to agree 100% ross. I would rather see the house in ash than to see 1 injured or dead person trying to put it out. This friggin place is not worth a life. I would say if my place built in 1922 was to ever catch on fire, it would be totally engulfed in flame before the fire department could possibly get here. It would go down faster than a trailer. This wood is so dry and so old along with the pitch in the lumber since it was air dried it would just go up. I have plenty of windows to go through if i have to escape. The only sources of ignition would be in the kitchen, or next to the kitchen.
unless someone firebomed me in my room i would get out along with all my pups. My biggest worry would be at that time catching all of them and containing them.
I have never lived in a area where we had fire departments that were 5 min response times. It is just a known fact that if something happens your on your own pretty much. yeah they will show up but it takes time to get up get dressed and go to the barn and get equipment started and loaded and heading out. Not saying that they aren't doing their best just saying the logistics do not produce any faster time. And i don't see anyone being able to afford a 24x7 staff on call to respond instantly. 250k is a lot of cash to lay out for a service that might be used 1 or 2 times a year. IF you have a higher population density then its justified as statistics say theres going to be a increase in fires.
It was a couple years ago that leroy jordans barn caught on fire. By the time the fire dept got there it was totally gone. Better to let it just burn to the ground and less mess to clean up.
Quote from: jason clatt on April 30, 2012, 12:02:36 PM
I dont see the reason to piss away money on a gravel road...what needs to be done is get people to run the equipment tha actually knows how to make a road. There has to be a crown in the road, 90% of th roads out here are slantd one way or the other or are just low spots..i think it is a big mistake..the county is just going to piss the money away and the county will still be doing a death spiral until nobody wants to live here..what needs to be done is hire a consultant...bring in an outside point of veiw..we need to bring buisnesses here need to give people a reason to stay....just sayin
Tell me something, why would a business come here without a way to transport their goods or services to market? How can an ambulance or fire truck get to place or person that needs their help if they can't get down the road?
BTW, the folks on the road crew know what their doing, problem is that they can only do what they are told to do by those higher up. A Slanted road is better than a flat one if you think about it. Granted gravel roads will always be in need of repair such is the nature of gravel roads.
As for helping the different townships, sorry but NO. The issues you mentioned are of seperate government bodies, and should be dealt with as such.
My hat is off to all volunteer firefighters and I thank them for what they do-------but-----"the life at risk" is mainly the way certain volunteers drive getting to the firehouse and then driving the fire trucks like a striped ass zebra, putting lives at risk, and most of the time going to a grass fire. I fear for my grand daughters lives to let them ride their bikes in town. I know some have been repeatedly warned and turned in by many but just throw a pissy fit and use intimidation and then keep on keeping on. I never was smart enough to heed intimidation. Figure what can happen---whup my sorry ass ? Aint getting no cherry there !!! Eat me? Hell even Jeffery Dahmer can't eat that damn much in a week of feasting . All I say is slow it down and drive somewhat safely---in all likelihood that fire will still be there when you get there.
Uh. Why are they driving so fast? We call that sirencide. We're only permitted 10 miles over the speed limit, ever. A big heavy pumper doesn't stop on a dime!Even if we get a call for a subject trapped we can't risk hitting someone on the way.
I'll admit, I don't understand how your county fire dept. system works.
A quote from my December 10, 2007, post:
"I have only seen the County make a run once--a couple years ago. The tanker driver was driving like a maniac. However, I am sure he thought he was doing his job trying to get to the fire as fast as he could."
This happened almost seven years ago but I remember it vividly. Whoever was driving the county tanker truck was doing so very fast and was on Washington approaching the stop sign at K-99 in Howard. He ran the stop sign at Washington and K-99 without, it seemed, slowing down one bit.
He almost jack knifed the trailer as he turned to go north on K-99. A car ahead of me barely missed hitting the truck as it made the turn. I almost hit that car as the driver made a frantic stop to avoid the collision.
I never heard the siren nor saw the tanker until it suddenly barged through the intersection. This was irresponsible driving but, again, I think the driver thought he was doing his job.
I know there is there and here is here, but I know of no fire training programs in any state that allow emergency vehicle drivers to drive as fast as they can. I don't know if Kansas has an EVO (Emergency Vehicle Operator's License, requirement, but we do. (No, I don't think we're perfect) It's a rather lengthy course on the dos and don't and why with a lot of films and such. Then there are many hours of supervised road training that we do ourselves before our drivers are turned loose. The EVO has to be on our person whenever we drive and if we get do get hit, the investigating officer does ask to see it. Sorry OF, I just couldn't help myself.I don't understand how you can support two different fire companies in one place.Is the ambulance service separate too, or part of the fire company as ours is?
Diane, our county has a County Fire Dept. that goes to rural fires, mostly grass. The city of Howard has a city fire department that answers the in town fires. The county has the EMS. They are all separate entities with no connections to each other. Then there is the sheriff's dept. that has no connection to any of them and very little cooperation as I understand it. The fire departments, however, are mostly volunteer and the same people volunteer for both. It used to be that an ambulance went to house fires. I don't know if they still do or not. I don't believe that a special license is required to drive an ambulance or a fire truck. Janet, correct me if I am wrong on this. There was a time that the sheriff's department was in on all emergencies, the sheriff was also the emergency service director. There was cooperation between the departments.
The sherriff is a first responder. When ember died, i was doing cpr and the sherrif showed up 20 min before the ambulanc e got there and assisted me in cpr.
Sheriff Hanks is an EMT because he is required to be one. His wife, Christy, was a paramedic under Janet and the best one she had. Janet would say so, herself. While Janet was sheriff and there was an ambulance call it was likely that a deputy would show up just in case there was any help needed. All the deputies were EMTs, even the part time deputies. It was required.
Quote from: jason clatt on May 01, 2012, 12:55:16 PM
...a consultant for comunity development needs to be hired to give some form of direction for what the monies could be invested in to bring a renewing income to the county....sounds like we are going to have great gravel roads for people to leave the county and spend money in a different county....
As long as he/she suggests a new fire/ambulance or two to make your job a little more cozy, right?
Jason Clatt,
You might not have brought up the excessive speed of emergency vehicles, but at least two other people did.
Jason, why do your volunteers not have to have the pumper ERT? Ours all do, or our version of it. I'm not being critical, I'm just interested.
Thanks Wilma for your information. I didn't know Howard F Co. didn't leave the city limits.That's a mighty small district! Did I misunderstand that? Patriot, how many miles does your ambulance have on it? Cozy, whatever that means, isn't the issue, reliability is.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on May 01, 2012, 01:48:17 PM
Patriot, how many miles does your ambulance have on it? Cozy, whatever that means, isn't the issue, reliability is.
No, Sparkles, the issue isn't reliability of equipment, it's the appropriate use of funds - garages, or roads.
Quote from: jason clatt on May 01, 2012, 01:10:31 PM
Got a question..why cant some of that money be used to rebuild communites in the county..all these communiteis pay co taxes..just a though what do all you na sayers think
This one thinks that if the incorporated communities have needs, then they need to get off their chairs, develop a plan & request then present it to the county government for consideration. County officials trying to second guess community needs in a town assumes there's a crystal ball somewhere in the county courthouse. It's also arrogant to think the county knows better than the town councils what's needed in each community. Elk Konnected, the Longton Ball Assoc., and (as of yesterday) the Howard Baptist Church have no problems asking for help.
Quote from: jason clatt on May 01, 2012, 01:57:18 PM
...dude you are talkin out of your ass.....nevermind you are not wrth the time that it took to type this...
You sound more like a coached mouthpiece for the Friends & Defenders of EK or a disgruntled employee than a concerned citizen. Correct me if I missed something, but weren't you the one that suggested new fire/ambulance buildings were more important than road & infrastructure repairs and that road work was just 'pissing away money'?
As for wasting time, would you at least try to spend some of yours spell checking?
So keeping a safe reliable vehicle on the road isn't a proper use of funds? Good grief. I know you all don't get a lot of calls, but Ill bet you pile up the miles with multiple drivers in all kinds of weather. ! Holy Cow! Pat said the following.....
As long as he/she suggests a new fire/ambulance or two to make your job a little more cozy, right? That's not roads or garages now is it?
Patriot, you must have some mighty strange priorities. Whew!
Besides, if I can't pick on spelling,you shouldn't either! HA!
Quote from: Diane Amberg on May 01, 2012, 02:54:21 PM
So keeping a safe reliable vehicle on the road isn't a proper use of funds? Good grief. I know you all don't get a lot of calls, but Ill bet you pile up the miles with multiple drivers in all kinds of weather. ! Holy Cow! Pat said the following.....
As long as he/she suggests a new fire/ambulance or two to make your job a little more cozy, right? That's not roads or garages now is it?
Patriot, you must have some mighty strange priorities. Whew!
Besides, if I can't pick on spelling,you shouldn't either! HA!
I misspoke. My comment should have read: "...suggests a new fire/ambulance building or two.."
And this is not about equipment.
You're right bout the spelling game. Sorry Jason.
It's also important to look at all of the county needs & situations. While I empathize and in some respects agree with your view regarding fire and ambulance services, I also think you may be subject to a bit of tunnel vision. There are many things that have to be considered when such decisions about expenditures are made. Do you know, for example, how much debt the county (and therefore the taxpayers) have? Do you realize how much money the taxpayers spend each year, by law, on insurance premiums & payroll taxes on employees? Will you acknowledge that there are some areas of this county you have likely never driven and therefore have no concept about the conditions of all those roads? Are you aware of state/federal activities that may affect our county finances? Are you the supervisor whose wife gets calls day and night from enraged citizens, being subjected to vulgarities because their roads are in terrible shape? Or who can't even shop for groceries locally for the same reason. Are aware of the costs involved in operating the jail or in conducting a murder trial locally? Do you realize what is involved in planning and paying for an extensive catastrophe here? Do you really see the 'big picture'?
All I'm suggesting is that the world is much larger than just what you read on here or see on an ambulance or fire run. There's much more to prioritizing our spending than what you see when you 'do what you do'.
Hey Come Move To Elk County We Have The Latest And Greatest In Fire Service And Ambulance Service, Our Roads Aren't Worth A Shit And You Can't Get Anywhere After A RainStorm But What The Hell!!
Quote from: jason clatt on May 01, 2012, 03:16:46 PM
...what have you done for the county..other than bitch
It seems from your posts here that I'm not the only person who could be accused of bitching. However, I'm sure the real answer to your question might be surprising. But those things are about us personally and not about the road plan.... which is probably much more important to the residents & drivers here.
Varmit, YOU are criticizing the roads? WOW! :o I do have one serious question.Why is your road gravel so big and sharp?
Quote from: Diane Amberg on May 01, 2012, 05:11:07 PM
Varmit, YOU are criticizing the roads? WOW! :o I do have one serious question.Why is your road gravel so big and sharp?
because they don't want to pay for the better gravel. Seriously there are boulders in the roads after they dump. Its not uncommon to see a 12" diameter rock in it either.
they have been putting 2inch or bigger on for along time dont blame the road workers they only haul what they are told too. I understand they have had some crushed out at Blacks quarry ,dont know what size but can bet its not inch and half what we put on ther for years. Did any one go to the last commissioners meeting I heard there was lot yelling coming from it
Yes, I've seen it and I just wondered why. It's no wonder people complain! There's your first step. Get some reasonable stuff even if it costs more.
Quote from: oldfart on May 01, 2012, 05:46:38 PM
Did any one go to the last commissioners meeting I heard there was lot yelling coming from it
Yes, and rumors are just that.... rumors. Was there some passion and intense 'fellowship', yes. Yelling? I wouldn't say so..
Quote from: Diane Amberg on May 01, 2012, 06:06:51 PM
Yes, I've seen it and I just wondered why.
Seen it? Pictures from the headmistress or have you visited recently?
OF noones saying the road workers are making the rock size. but quite frankly since it is the county purchasing the rock, if the crushers send that crap out and its not worth a crap charge them back for the cost plus transportation until they make it right. Its not rocket science for them to produce 1 1/2" rock. Another idea is to do quality control on loads. Until they get it right. if the rock isn't the right size dump it and make them put the right size on
Quote from: Wilma on May 01, 2012, 01:11:11 PM
Sheriff Hanks is an EMT because he is required to be one. His wife, Christy, was a paramedic under Janet and the best one she had. Janet would say so, herself. While Janet was sheriff and there was an ambulance call it was likely that a deputy would show up just in case there was any help needed. All the deputies were EMTs, even the part time deputies. It was required.
Mother, I hate to correct you, but Doug Hanks isn't required to be an EMT just because he is sheriff. The deputies were all EMT's or First Responders, but it was not a requirement. They did it because Elk County paid for most of their training and they did it because they wanted to. I think, at the time, the only person who paid for his own training was Ken Mitchell, when he became an MICT.
I believe that the sheriff's office goes to most emergencies when they can. Since I am not there anymore, I don't know.
Quote from: jason clatt on May 01, 2012, 12:55:16 PM
since when did i bring up the speed that emergency vehicals travel the ks law for operating an emergency vehical is you can only drive 10mph faster than the posted speed...
I don't know you, but I sure would like for you to give me the Kansas Statute that says you can only go 10 miles per hour over the posted speed limit. Where did you get your information, please?
Quote from: Patriot on May 01, 2012, 01:12:54 PM
As long as he/she suggests a new fire/ambulance or two to make your job a little more cozy, right?
LOL, Patriot. Sounds like that is whast this one is aiming for.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on May 01, 2012, 01:48:17 PM
Jason, why do your volunteers not have to have the pumper ERT? Ours all do, or our version of it. I'm not being critical, I'm just interested.
Thanks Wilma for your information. I didn't know Howard F Co. didn't leave the city limits.That's a mighty small district! Did I misunderstand that? Patriot, how many miles does your ambulance have on it? Cozy, whatever that means, isn't the issue, reliability is.
Diane, The Howard Fire Department does go out of the city limits. It's called mutual aide. They go to almost all house and structure fires. HFD has the biggest engine, I believe, in the county, so they are so willing to assist where they can.
On the mileage on the ambulances, those ambulances are taken care of and are traded in or sold whenever they get to many miles. However; as you well know, the units are diesel engines, so those last longer and go so many more miles. I know that Elk County has had some issues with the newest unit, but I think that was resolved.
Quote from: jason clatt on May 01, 2012, 01:55:20 PM
you know what..kiss my ass
it is people like you that are runing this county into the ground
You know, sir. For someone who works part-time for Elk Countly EMS, you are sure showing your lack of intelligence by using profanity. Just saying.
Quote from: Patriot on May 01, 2012, 04:30:42 PM
It's also important to look at all of the county needs & situations. While I empathize and in some respects agree with your view regarding fire and ambulance services, I also think you may be subject to a bit of tunnel vision. There are many things that have to be considered when such decisions about expenditures are made. Do you know, for example, how much debt the county (and therefore the taxpayers) have? Do you realize how much money the taxpayers spend each year, by law, on insurance premiums & payroll taxes on employees? Will you acknowledge that there are some areas of this county you have likely never driven and therefore have no concept about the conditions of all those roads? Are you aware of state/federal activities that may affect our county finances? Are you the supervisor whose wife gets calls day and night from enraged citizens, being subjected to vulgarities because their roads are in terrible shape? Or who can't even shop for groceries locally for the same reason. Are aware of the costs involved in operating the jail or in conducting a murder trial locally? Do you realize what is involved in planning and paying for an extensive catastrophe here? Do you really see the 'big picture'?
All I'm suggesting is that the world is much larger than just what you read on here or see on an ambulance or fire run. There's much more to prioritizing our spending than what you see when you 'do what you do'.
Ah. Good point.
Quote from: Janet Harrington on May 01, 2012, 07:34:40 PM
Ah. Good point.
Careful, Janet... there's only so much room on the Forum's $h*t List and I'm trying to save a spot or two. LOL
Quote from: Diane Amberg on May 01, 2012, 05:11:07 PM
Varmit, YOU are criticizing the roads? WOW! :o I do have one serious question.Why is your road gravel so big and sharp?
No I'm not, please try reading for intent.
Quote from: srkruzich on May 01, 2012, 06:35:37 PM
OF noones saying the road workers are making the rock size. but quite frankly since it is the county purchasing the rock, if the crushers send that crap out and its not worth a crap charge them back for the cost plus transportation until they make it right. Its not rocket science for them to produce 1 1/2" rock. Another idea is to do quality control on loads. Until they get it right. if the rock isn't the right size dump it and make them put the right size on.
We are not and have not been hauling 1 1/2 for quite some time. Most of our roads have no base hence the 2" base rock that we have been hauling.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on May 01, 2012, 06:06:51 PM
Yes, I've seen it and I just wondered why. It's no wonder people complain! There's your first step. Get some reasonable stuff even if it costs more.
I am just curious at why you are so concerned? I mean honestly if you are that concerned then come pay taxes here, then you can actually say something. I live here and I am not complaining because I know they are doing the best they can with what they can afford. I mean if it is that big of a deal to you please come do it yourself. My husband and all the other guys do as they are told and do a darn good job with what they have. I mean the guys do as they are told in the commissioner meetings and if you want proof of that come to a meeting!! I sat there for a long time the other day listening to them tell the road crew to pull from the ditch and that is how those big rocks get on the road. If you do not like the big base rocks they put down then wait to travel that road till they are done with it. I have to drive on the same big rocks when I want to go someone too. You know that is why you travel slowly on a dirt road not treat it like it is a paved highway. I think the max speed is 50 or 55 on well maintained gravel roads unless otherwise posted. So if there is this big of a stink go to a meeting and ask them to post signs to drive slower for the people who do not know how to drive on gravel. Oh or maybe better yet make them take a driving course. That may help too. I have to be honest and say though that unless you live here and it is truly a concern to you because it is right outside your house (like it is for me) you have no business complaining.
My family did pay taxes there for as a many years as there has been an Elk County, or maybe even before, I'm not sure.I have copies of the original abstract.I Have copies of my mom's family place too. One was signed by US Grant, but right now I forget which one. It's not a big deal.
I still have family and friends out there, so why wouldn't I be interested? I could have kept the old family place and rented it out when Daddy decided to give it up after Mom died, but I chose not to be an absentee landlord, as I've said before.
Mrs V... You are getting in a knot over nothing. I was just giving B. a poke and he should know it. He can't help what he has to work with, now can he? Yes, I've seen and driven those roads Patriot, 10 miles of it to get "home''from Howard .Sadly ,it's been almost four years now, but I'm sure nothing has changed. It rarely does.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on May 01, 2012, 09:40:43 PM
My family did pay taxes there for as a many years as there has been an Elk County, or maybe even before I'm not sure.I have copies of the original abstract.I Have copies of my mom's family place too. One was signed by US Grant but right now I forget which one. It's not a big deal.
I still have family and friends out there so why wouldn't I be interested? I could have kept the old family place when Daddy decided to give it up after Mom died, but I chose not to be an absentee landlord, as I've said before.
Mrs V. You are getting in a knot over nothing.I was just giving B. a poke and he should know it. He can't help what he has to work with, now can he? Yes, I've seen and driven those roads Patriot.I0 miles of it to get "home'' Sadly ,it's been almost four years now but I'm sure nothing has changed.It never does.
Huh?
Diane her response had nothing to do with what you said to me, go back and re read what she posted.
Crude language is a sign of disrespect. And usually signifies the inability to express ones self in a intelligent manner as well as lacking vocabulary skills.
There are times though when your target audiences is so dimwitted that they will not understand anything but crude language. So one tends to resort to that in a desperate attempt at getting through the lack of intelligence. But for a casual conversation on a board with intelligent people it usually is not required.
And Janet is right, i would expect emt's, firemen, city officials, ect to respect others and not use it.
I did reread it Varmit, and I answered it. She wondered about my interest so I explained that. She doesn't know my background.
I guess I'm going to have to buy one of those little houses and fix it up as a rental and be an absentee landlord after all, since a few of you seem to resent my interest unless I'm still paying taxes there, as my family members out there still do.
Varmit, I really don't care who you are or what role you play,that's fine of course, but it bothers me fiercely that you only accept copies of yourself and the rest of us are "wrong", no matter who we are or how we think.
I left the politics threads never to return, so don't any of you bother asking questions of me on any of them.They will go un acknowledged and unanswered. Make sport of that as you all wish.
Janet thank you for your information. We have duel responses during the day and mutual aid too. I think most states are very much the same.
Steve, this is one time that I have to agree with you. You are right on the ball with your opinion of crude language and people that resort to it. I, too, have had to use some words that do not come naturally to me, to make my point understandable to some people.
Quote from: Wilma on May 02, 2012, 11:12:40 AM
Steve, this is one time that I have to agree with you. You are right on the ball with your opinion of crude language and people that resort to it. I, too, have had to use some words that do not come naturally to me, to make my point understandable to some people.
I had a grandpa and a dad that would have fed me a knuckle sandwich if i had used any foul words especially in front of a woman. I would have been missing a great number of teeth
Quote from: Diane Amberg on May 02, 2012, 09:34:13 AM
Varmit, I really don't care who you are or what role you play,that's fine of course, but it bothers me fiercely that you only accept copies of yourself and the rest of us are "wrong", no matter who we are or how we think.
If it bothers you so fiercely than why do you do it? I know I do it to an extent simply because I believe in absolutes, theres right and wrong and most issues can be divided on those lines.
It doesn't matter who a person is...they're either right or wrong.
Why should it matter who a person is when determining the truth on an issue?
Quote from: jason clatt on May 02, 2012, 12:55:03 PM
I give up..i am throwing in the towel...since no matter what i say will get twisted into something completly different than what it was meant...and janet i am sorry ::) if my words offend you...alltough those words are a lot milder than what comes out of peoples mouths these days...
Sir, you language did not offend me. I cannot be offended. I have heard and read worse. However; you are telling us you work part-time for Elk County EMS. I used to be the director of said agency. I know the current director would not, absolutely would not, tolerate that kind of language from someone who is supposedly a professional of the Elk County EMS. I understand that you are probably on your own time, but if you are really passionate about what you do, show us the professionalism that you should be showing in watching how you write. Be above that kind of language and maybe people will pay a little more attention to what you are saying.
Quote from: Oldtimer on May 01, 2012, 03:11:56 PM
Wilma, I can't think of anything worse for Elk County than to have Ross or Patriot as a Commissioner. If we had had Ross and or Patriot as Commissioners we wouldn't have to worry about what to do with the Windfarm Monies, because there wouldn't be any. Think about it their two main supporters do not live in Elk County, don't own property in Elk County, don't pay taxes in Elk County.
I'll be more then happy to discuss this on the
"Elk Konnected Hand out at County Commissioners meeting on 4/25" under the politics section. Where those that have heavily, IMHO advocated spending many more millions of dollars, then the county will see in the next 20 years. And it is clearly Elk Konnected, LLC who was behind the ideas, they handed the list over to the Konnected Kounty Kommissioners. See page one of the following thread.
So you don't get lost: http://www.cascity.com/howard/forum/index.php/topic,11780.3850.html
I heard that Mr Lackey told thecommissioners meeting other day that he did not tell us cut the crown other the roads thats not true he had us cut from the middle to the edge ,that sounds like thats cutting crown . Also had his boys there to back him up . I know for afact that 1 of them bladed with me. all in fear of the same treatment myself and a few others got for talking out. keep your mouth shut ,what happens at the county shop stays in house.
Quote from: jason clatt on May 03, 2012, 07:34:23 PM
...... see now that is bs..they cant treat you like that..
Like what?
sept. of 09 they said laying me and another guy off said they were out of money would bring us back ,we found out out they hired a guy 3 days before. brandon had been there 10 years me 2 but keep guys been 3 or 4 months .you get on someone bad side dont care if do your job ask kenny was there 20 years cant use you any more.guys who I thought were pals at work left me hanging in the wind know they need there jobs so I dont have any ill feelings I keep appling for my job back LOL ithink we have the money NOW
Quote from: jason clatt on May 04, 2012, 09:03:01 AM
i refuse to argue with an idiot they will bring you down to there level and beat you with there experiance
It would seem that if one could be 'brought down' and beaten at the idiot level by the idiot's experience then they weren't as high on the evolutionary chain as they thought they were... and maybe the idiot wasn't as stupid as one thought they were.
Now, about that new road plan. Other than rock savings, are 24' FAS roads going to be adequate? What say you?
Quote from: oldfart on May 04, 2012, 09:25:36 AM
sept. of 09 they said laying me and another guy off said they were out of money would bring us back ,we found out out they hired a guy 3 days before. brandon had been there 10 years me 2 but keep guys been 3 or 4 months .you get on someone bad side dont care if do your job ask kenny was there 20 years cant use you any more.guys who I thought were pals at work left me hanging in the wind know they need there jobs so I dont have any ill feelings I keep appling for my job back LOL ithink we have the money NOW
We might have. What would you recommend as the proper method to bring our rural roads to better condition?
all my comments were made by me for me not affiliated or speaking for any body else not elk connected or rural county fire or any other county intrest.....these comments were made by me no one else...so....
I cant say I know that.
I am not trying to be negative here as I usually am. But whom actually decided that this was the best use of the money? Was it the county commissioners and windmill land owners that live on these roads? I thought this money was supposed to benefit Elk county as a whole not a few people that live on these roads. Someone said something about business coming to elk county. What businesses that aren't already here are going to be running up and down the 237 miles of FAS. Sounds more like its to help the few families that are gifted enough to keep inheriting land from one gen to the next.
Why wouldnt we use this money to clean up all the local towns? Beautify the towns. Knock down the dilapidated vacant houses and school buildings (Howard high - thought that hired enforcement guy was gonna do something). Repave city roads in Howard, moline, elk falls, long ton, etc. maybe install functional sidewalks throught all the towns. Things like that would draw people and businesses to local towns. Then advertise, advertise, advertise, make brochures for the county, put in all hotel lobbies in 2 hour radius.
Maybe a commercial, magazines, newspapers, web page that's professionally made, and updated on a weekly basis.
How about investing in the local schools, why are gravel roads more important than the kids?
Quote from: PrehistoricRez on May 06, 2012, 02:15:56 AM
I am not trying to be negative here as I usually am. But whom actually decided that this was the best use of the money? Was it the county commissioners and windmill land owners that live on these roads? I thought this money was supposed to benefit Elk county as a whole not a few people that live on these roads. Someone said something about business coming to elk county. What businesses that aren't already here are going to be running up and down the 237 miles of FAS. Sounds more like its to help the few families that are gifted enough to keep inheriting land from one gen to the next.
Why wouldnt we use this money to clean up all the local towns? Beautify the towns. Knock down the dilapidated vacant houses and school buildings (Howard high - thought that hired enforcement guy was gonna do something). Repave city roads in Howard, moline, elk falls, long ton, etc. maybe install functional sidewalks throught all the towns. Things like that would draw people and businesses to local towns. Then advertise, advertise, advertise, make brochures for the county, put in all hotel lobbies in 2 hour radius.
There are no easy answers. Jobs bring people to various locations, even places where they may not want to live.
Check out N. Dakota, the Balkin oil formation. No streets, no houses, not enough storefronts, no curbs. They did go there for those things, they went there for jobs, good paying jobs.
People like me, retired. Come to places like this. To get away from the city and enjoy this type of lifestyle.
The world economy is in the tank, the country's economy is in the tank, the Kansas economy is in the tank. Cut's in funding are taking place everywhere.
Everyone wants easy money, everyone.
There were plans started with an eye towards the money before the windfarm broke ground to start building. In my humble opinion.
A big idea was to put the first million in the bank, what happened to that idea?
Renewing streets, and building sidewalks won't bring people to Elk County. Jobs might but where are you going to find jobs?
Renewing Storefronts is the owners responsibility, and that won't bring people to Elk County either.
The communities also have other beggar-thy-neighbor avenues with the state and federal government for grants and such.
Why haven't they persued theose avenues?
My personal thoughts would be to save that money, every drop of if.
Why?
Because, then the county would accumulate interest and a continuing source of money.
The county has survived without that money and could continue to do so.
1 million dollars at 4% interest compounded daily will bear $109.59 per day, and $3333 per month, $40,000 a year.
That investment could probably be considerably improved upon. Just an example.
If it were left alone and added to each year for say five years think how much it would grow.
Eventually, Elk County would no longer be known as the poor county with the highest property tax.
And just think if our County Commissioners had got us the three million others have got from the same size windfarm and the same company, just think how rich Elk County would be then.
No amount of money you spend irrationally or quickly will bring anyone to Elk County.
Look around at the number of houses on the market, I think it is a lot for this area.
People are leaving, not coming. Except for a very few that the county wants to give tax rebates to, IIMHO.
That's not going to help Elk County, either. Just a few and maybe a few (inisder's) investors.
No sir, jobs and taxes are the main reasons.
No matter how many Centralized Daycare and YMCA or Teen Centers are built with pretty flower beds, they won't bring people here. Good paying jobs might.
Quote from: PrehistoricRez on May 06, 2012, 02:23:15 AM
Maybe a commercial, magazines, newspapers, web page that's professionally made, and updated on a weekly basis.
How about investing in the local schools, why are gravel roads more important than the kids?
Because kids come and they go. But roads will be needed from now on. Secondly all the "Its for the kids" "what about the kids" ect ect ect is nothing but socialist propaganda. As long as they are fed, clothed, and housed, then the kids are ok. Why is it we have to spend tax dollars on kids, when they don't produce?
Isn't it the parents responsibility to provide for the kids? IF so, then problem solved!
Quote from: PrehistoricRez on May 06, 2012, 02:23:15 AM
How about investing in the local schools, why are gravel roads more important than the kids?
Nobody has said kids take a back seat to roads. The facts are that West Elk USD passed s $9+ million budget for 2012 compared to a total county budget of about $2.5 million. How much money does it take to properly educate 300+ kids?
9 million dollars for kids.
2.5 million dollars to run the county out of which less than half is for roads.
Spend more on the kids? What are our schools lacking other than good money management skills?
Ross, I must disagree with the 'stash it all' plan. We already have about $1 million in savings. And the earnings are more like 0.5% = 1.0% at current rates... not 4%. Additionally, with real inflation rates, we even lose money by not investing in infrastructure. Higher future costs of fuel, labor and materials would quickly eat up any interest earnings, and then some. Not to mention increased future costs incurred because of accelerating deterioration of infrastructure.
No, I think we are far better off repairing infrastructure & eliminating debt in the present. Stop current deterioration and improve current cash flows by eliminating interest outflows.
Quote from: Patriot on May 06, 2012, 08:16:47 AM
Nobody has said kids take a back seat to roads. The facts are that West Elk USD passed s $9+ million budget for 2012 compared to a total county budget of about $2.5 million. How much money does it take to properly educate 300+ kids?
9 million dollars for kids. 2.5 million dollars to run the county out of which less than half is for roads.
Spend more on the kids? What are our schools lacking other than good money management skills?
Last I looked at West Elk it looked comparable to the Taj Mahal and lot's and lot's of money spent on technology.
And just a 344 children. The number of children was taken from the survey done on West Elk.
The survey is posted at http://www.westelk.us/joomladev/images/BofE-Minutes/2012-03-19-2012%20-%20Mar%2019th,%202012%20(Survey%20Results).pdf Whatever happened to the follow up meetings for that survey by the college?
With all the money spent on technology and the training in technology, I would think they could post a pdf survey that was far more ledgible.
The survey appears to me that there needs to be a lot more improvement in educating rather then spending. More supervision perhaps of teachers which would require a superintendent trained and educated to do the job. Just my opinion. Perhaps getting a blue ribbon school from teaching instead of just barely meeting requirements, would be a great improvement to Elk County. Spending more money won't do it.
Quote from: Patriot on May 06, 2012, 08:26:42 AM
Ross, I must disagree with the 'stash it all' plan. We already have about $1 million in savings. And the earnings are more like 0.5% = 1.0% at current rates... not 4%. Additionally, with real inflation rates, we even lose money by not investing in infrastructure. Higher future costs of fuel, labor and materials would quickly eat up any interest earnings, and then some. Not to mention increased future costs incurred because of accelerating deterioration of infrastructure.
No, I think we are far better off repairing infrastructure & eliminating debt in the present. Stop current deterioration and improve current cash flows by eliminating interest outflows.
I'll conced to that.
Quote from Patriot :
Spend more on the kids? What are our schools lacking other than good money management skills?
You hit the nail on the head with that statement.
Quote from: Patriot on May 06, 2012, 08:16:47 AM
.
Spend more on the kids? What are our schools lacking other than good money management skills?
A Good curriculum that teaches critical thinking skills, researching future jobs, constitutional principles, along with capitalist skills in order to start, manage, and maintin a small business..... Teach them to think for themselves and not rely on government for the solution....
Quote from: srkruzich on May 06, 2012, 12:58:26 PM
A Good curriculum that teaches critical thinking skills, researching future jobs, constitutional principles, along with capitalist skills in order to start, manage, and maintin a small business..... Teach them to think for themselves and not rely on government for the solution....
But... but... but... that's not conducive to raising up good little followers who vote and make decisions based on emotional progressive cliche's. 'Whatever works, hope n change, positive communication, it's for the kids, let's just all get along, etc'. Folks who think the best answer to "Why?' is, "Because we've always done it that way"... even if the way produces no real results.
No, critical thinkers rock the boat with reason mixed with a view to history based on the rule of law... they ask questions and expect factual, verifiable answers... nope, there won't be any of that nonsense.
Hey speaking of schools...
At a recent commissioners meeting Jennifer Montgomery brought up the topic of some kind of Art trip to lawerence that the windfarm folks were paying for the childern of Elk County. Sorry I don't remember the exact name of it. Anyway, she stated that there were 30 seats availiable, then went on to say that out of those 30 seats 12 were already taken by kids from West Elk. She also stated that she made sure all the kids in each township received the flyer for the trip. I gotta call B.S. on that. I have 6 kids, all attend school in Burden, not a single one brought home anything about it. Not only that but I have to say that with 30 seats availible shouldn't they have been divided equally among the towns?
Once again it is Howard getting the lions share!!
Varmit I agree with you 100%. It appears Our Employee works more for
Elk Konnected, LLC then for the County.
And I bet those 12 kids that got them first are Konnected Kids.
I posted this on the Elk Konnected Hand out at County Commissioners meeting on 4/25
« Reply #3858 on: May 03, 2012, 08:23:39 am »
Quote from: Ross on May 03, 2012, 07:23:39 AM
I am proud to report, my son brought home an application from school for what is called
Elk County/ Lawrence Art Center /Summer Camp which is being Sponsored and (probably instigated) by the WindFarm.
This I believe is an actual and positive, youth development event.
The children 7th through 12th grade will be staying on campus at the University of Kansas. Which most likely is an experience in and of itself.
Transportation will be provided by the Elk Valley School District which is located in Longton, Kansas.
I believe this activity really would qualify more as Child Development, unlike the local Summer Day Camp, which appears to be more of a daycare or baby sitting event, with cheap toys used for entertaining children.
This apparently happened last year, however, my child did not bring home the application last year. The sad thing is only 30 children get to participate.
And it's on a first come/first serve basis.
I would like to know, WHO made this decision, and WHY?
It leaves open the door for the suggestion of more favoritism, cronyism and the such.
What if, 60 applications are received at the very same time delivered by the mail carrier.
Who, then chooses who goes?
Well, my bet is those thirty or the majority will be West Elk Students and perhaps Elk Konnected, LLC Children. Because, they are right there in Howard, where they have the advantage of getting their applications in first, to the court house and may even have early insider information, and possible early access to the applications, especially since our Youth Development Employee is on the Elk Konnected, LLC Steering Committee Member. I hope you can see that the Elk Konnected Children have an even better advantage because of being Konnected.
What, I believe would be fair would be a public drawing of names from a hat at a County Commissioner Meeting with a member of the audience drawing the names.
Also, children that have already attended the camp should be disallowed to enter,
thus providing all of Elk County children an equal opportunity to win one of the thirty position of going to this limited County Supported, Summer Camp.
,
I don't like putting a damper on a good thing and really I'm not, what I am suggesting is that ALL County Children should be treated equally.
Remember, we have Konnected Kounty Kommissioners, Konnected Kounty Youth Development Employee and Konnected West Elk School Board President and possibly a few other Konnected good old boy & girls, right? To me they haven't shown that they can be trusted, so I believe the only fair thing for all the county's children would be a\the suggested drawing presented at a County Commissioners meeting with an audience member drawing the names. Fair is fair, right folks. Let's see if fairness can happen in Elk County?
And what about the disadvantaged children, who's parent's may not be able to afford the $10 dollar transportation fee? Couldn't the Konnected Youth Development Employee ask the Konnected Kounty Kommissioners to provide that funding from the County's Recreation Fund? Giving the disadvantage children an equal opportunity. Instead of providing those funds to Elk Konnected, LLC ?
Just where is the FAIRNESS in the "Beggar-Thy-Neighbor" programs for All the CHILDREN OF Elk COUNTY ?
Perhaps: Food for thought.
This is an election year and your vote will be very important, at least on the local level.
You can make a big difference.
NO, I am not going to be running for County Commissioner.
Those that drive em every day in work trucks, with & without trailers, tractors with implements... Rock, Limestone, Killdeer and others... 24' standard road widths... all things considered... what say you?