http://www.fredoneverything.net/Zimmerman.shtml
I am sorry, Red, but your title alarmed me. The Zimmerman well known in this community is one of the most compassionate men that I have ever met. So, just the name Zimmerman gave me some concern. When I read the article and realized that the Zimmerman is the same one that I also think should be lynched, I was greatly relieved.
For you members and non-members who might be wondering just who my Zimmerman is, he was the local funeral director/mortician for many years. I think that anyone that knows him will agree with me about his compassion. It is with great relief that I find that I do not need to read the riot act to Red. In this case, I agree with him.
Most agreeable with your comment about Mr. Zimmerman, Wilma.
Met him in Howard just recently when he was attending a meeting at one of the banks where he still has a presence in Elk County by being on the board of directors.
One of the nicest men on earth.
Quote from: Wilma on April 20, 2012, 08:35:06 AM
For you members and non-members who might be wondering just who my Zimmerman is, he was the local funeral director/mortician for many years. I think that anyone that knows him will agree with me about his compassion. It is with great relief that I find that I do not need to read the riot act to Red. In this case, I agree with him.
Its a good thing you don't have anything to do with zimmermans trial. The state doesn't have squat on him. The evidence presented shows that he was attacked by martin.
But then if anyone defends themselves these days, they are always made out to be vermin.
Back to the thread, at least he won't be lynched today. The judge showed fairness and honest to God common senes and granted him a fair bond. That is promising.
Red, In regards to riots I think we should borrow a page out of Russia's play book.
Wilma I am so surprised at you thinking Zimmerman should be lynched before he has even stood trial and WE do not even know what happened for sure. I think you have been watching too much MSNBC, CNN and such AND listening to the professional race baiters,Al $harpton and his clone Je$$ie Jack$on. Lynch an innocent man ? You ever hear of innocent until proven guilty? Shame on you .
Quote from: jarhead on April 20, 2012, 09:51:29 AM
Red, In regards to riots I think we should borrow a page out of Russia's play book.
Wilma I am so surprised at you thinking Zimmerman should be lynched before he has even stood trial and WE do not even know what happened for sure. I think you have been watching too much MSNBC, CNN and such AND listening to the professional race baiters,Al $harpton and his clone Je$$ie Jack$on. Lynch an innocent man ? You ever hear of innocent until proven guilty? Shame on you .
Thought i would post the photo of zimmermans head. Those are some serious lacerations he sustained. Justifiable in his sending that thug to the great celestial dirt nap
Jar, I'm sorry, but that is my gut reaction to someone who stalks another person. If he had done what he had been told to do, the boy would have gone back to where he was visiting. He also could have observed from a distance that did not make the boy feel threatened. As for the boy, he should not have confronted the person who seemed to be stalking him, but should have proceeded to return to the house where he was known. This man used excessive force when he pulled his gun on the boy. I fail to see how a man of his size could have been threatened and overcome by a young man of this boy's small stature. It will be interesting to see what happens. I am betting that this Zimmerman gets off.
As for prejudging, Steve is doing the same thing by calling the young man a thug. We all use language we don't really mean, don't we?
As for stalking, there are conflicting media stories about the origin of the conflict/confrontation. Check your sources.
It sounds like you are looking at those MSNBC photos of that sweet 12 year old. Get some of the pics of him as a 17 year old & some facts about this sweet little kid's extra-curricular activities.
In any event, to actually call for or support the lynching of the shooter while his innocence is still presumed under the law is disgraceful... and un-American. Moreover, your dialogue misses completely the points made in the article Red posted. Then again, you might be supporting the article's contention that frightened white folk need to lynch Zimmerman out of their fear of blacks as a deterrent to black outrage. Did you even read the article? What say you?
Quote from Wilma:
I fail to see how a man of his size could have been threatened and overcome by a young man of this boy's small stature.
Oh boy !!! If what the News Talking Heads say is right, your "poor little boy " was 6 ft 3 inches tall. Guess by NBA standards that would qualify under "small stature" by my standards that is a "tall son of a gun.
Shorty
Quote from: Wilma on April 20, 2012, 10:07:50 AM
Jar, I'm sorry, but that is my gut reaction to someone who stalks another person. If he had done what he had been told to do, the boy would have gone back to where he was visiting. He also could have observed from a distance that did not make the boy feel threatened.
IF you had heard testimony, he didn't go after martin. He returned to his vehicle. Sorry but that "myth" exploded today at the hearing. The detective said that there was no evidence that zimmerman persued martin.
QuoteAs for the boy, he should not have confronted the person who seemed to be stalking him, but should have proceeded to return to the house where he was known. This man used excessive force when he pulled his gun on the boy. I fail to see how a man of his size could have been threatened and overcome by a young man of this boy's small stature. It will be interesting to see what happens. I am betting that this Zimmerman gets off.
Excuse me? Martin was 17, not a boy. HE was a boy in a mans body. Your assumtion he was some weakling nerd is laughable. As a father who has had plenty of ample opportunity in stepping between two 17 year old boys, i can tell you that they can kill a man. They are not harmless. Secondly take a look at zimmermans head. This was not caused by a boy, but by a adult man. we aren't alking 12 year old here.
QuoteAs for prejudging, Steve is doing the same thing by calling the young man a thug. We all use language we don't really mean, don't we?
Yes he is a thug that made the mistake of bringing a fist fight to a gunfight. I would have busted a cap in him too if he were on top of me smashing me into a sidewalk. I don't give a rats ass about who persued whom. The simple evidence is zimmerman had lacerations that proved he was attacked. Martin didn't have anything proving he was attacked outside of the hole in him that zimmerman made after zimmerman was attacked.
Quote from: jarhead on April 20, 2012, 10:27:58 AM
Quote from Wilma:
I fail to see how a man of his size could have been threatened and overcome by a young man of this boy's small stature.
Oh boy !!! If what the News Talking Heads say is right, your "poor little boy " was 6 ft 3 inches tall. Guess by NBA standards that would qualify under "small stature" by my standards that is a "tall son of a gun.
Shorty
LOL also tell that to those 17 year old marines that keep graduating from paris island. They are too much of a boy to kill somone! too innocent ROTFLMAO.
Sheesh.
This case has nothing to do with black or white now. IT has everything to do with disarming citizens. They didn't get involved til they got wind of the stand your ground law. SOOOo the liberals had to jump on that and make it a massive issue by demonizing someone that fell under the law.
All this is going to do if they convict zimmerman is cause those of us who are law abiding citizens to go out and buy a throw away gun. That way we don't have to go through this crap zimmermans going through. Bust a cap in your attacker and send the gun to the bottom of a well. Problem solved.
Seems to me that I am not the only one picking up misinformation. What I have heard is on the major networks news, ABC, CBS and NBC, not the so-called news networks that have to relate the same story over and over and embellish on it just to have something to report. I don't watch those channels.
Quote from: Wilma on April 20, 2012, 11:31:33 AM
What I have heard is on the major networks news, ABC, CBS and NBC, not the so-called news networks that have to relate the same story over and over and embellish on it just to have something to report.
Let me guess, you get all your local news from the good ole boy network and the Elk Konnected steering committee. With access to the internet and radio, I'm sorry to hear you limit your information intake so greatly. I hear Batson's is planning a sale on tin foil. Line the windows. Lord knows, we wouldn't want you being influenced by radio beams from any aliens.
Quote from: Wilma on April 20, 2012, 11:31:33 AM
Seems to me that I am not the only one picking up misinformation. What I have heard is on the major networks news, ABC, CBS and NBC, not the so-called news networks that have to relate the same story over and over and embellish on it just to have something to report. I don't watch those channels.
Then you have not been paying attention. The photo i posted of the lacerations on Zimmermans head is from ABC. But you would hve to pay attention to the ABC logo on the photo to know that!
http://www.fredoneverything.net/Screwed.shtml
We Are Screwed
A Thought Possibly Not
Unique to Fred Reed
April 5, 2012
Our current poster for successful racial policy is, as all the world probably knows, the shooting of the improbably named Travon Martin, black, by an Hispanic improbably named Zimmerman. The death has been improbably termed, by professional blacks, "genocide." Whatever happened to dictionaries, I wonder.
Perhaps the worst thing about the case is the appalling English it revealed, "He dont be doing nothing aint right he just...." Usually the brighter and more literate of a group spend time on the internet. Heaven help us. These inarticulate mutterings devoid of punctuation or any grasp of the structure of the language illustrate what we know but ignore: We are screwed. In 2012, in a technological society that sends space craft to Mars, we have millions of illiterates, or close enough that it doesn't make any difference.
This, not genocide, is the worst thing afflicting blacks. Years back I walked a foot beat with a cop on Capitol Hill. The cop started chatting with a black kid of maybe eleven. He suggested mildly that the boy ought to be home reading instead of hanging out on the street. "I ain't read no boo-oo-ook," said the child with infinite scorn. Exactly.
Also visible in the prop-wash of the shooting is the seething, unreasoning hatred for whites. Of course not all blacks hate whites equally, or at all. If you are white, the black economist next door probably doesn't hate you and wants for his children what you want for yours. Well and good. But I can show you parts, many parts, of Washington or Chicago or Los Angeles where, if you are white, you wouldn't last an hour after the sun went down.
The web groans under furious denunciations of Zimmerman as a racist, cracker, redneck thug, bigot. Various blacks vow revenge. The characteristic self-pity and sense of victimhood run in full flood without a trace of thought. If Jesse Jackson has been quoted correctly, he said, "blacks are under attack" and "targeting, arresting, convicting blacks and ultimately killing us is big business." Oh sure. Jackson, no fool, knows better, but plies his trade.
Practically speaking, it doesn't matter what happened to Trayvon. Millions of blacks are going to believe that an innocent upstanding young black kid was murdered by a racist white because he as black. The view is visceral, irrational, unconcerned with facts, and based on the bedrock of the understanding of blacks: We are victims of Whitey.
The facts are that racial attacks by blacks against whites, against Asians, are far, far more common than attacks by whites or Asians against blacks. A glance at the FBI's Uniform Crime Reports, or the National Crime Victimization Survey, makes this obvious. Every cop knows it. I suspect that almost everyone knows it, though many don't want to say it.
Where does this lead?
A symptom of the underlying corruption of American society is that in matters racial neither the government nor the media are impartial. Both (if one regards media and government as separate entities) carefully bury horrific crimes by blacks against whites and Asians while amplifying any crime, real or imagined, by whites against blacks. This has gone on so long that whites in general must be aware of it.
But what effect does this highly directed coverage have on blacks of no education? On those who can't read or who read so poorly that they don't? In eight years as police reporter for the Washington Times, I went into many homes of urban blacks who had called the cops. I do not recall ever seeing a book. We are speaking of a people whose only source of information is television.
Which tells them over and over that innocent blacks are being killed, beaten, jailed, and falsely accused. Disposed to self-pity and more emotional than reasoning, they readily accept this message. It comes often from prominent blacks who maintain their power by ridiculous warnings of genocide and the like.
In all the outpourings of fury from blacks over the shooting, I have not encountered the slightest appreciation that it might have been a matter of self-defense. Not the slightest recognition that blacks indeed commit a great deal of violent crime and that whites might reasonably be wary of hooded young black males. The races are on utterly different pages.
Where does this leave us? The racial impasse is just that, an impasse, and not getting better. The hatred is deep and wide-spread. Television encourages it.
The very names of blacks reflect a profound distaste for European civilization, a desire for separate societies. Trayvon, Lateesha, Keeshawn—these all form part of an insuperable wall erected against a polity that blacks don't like and don't understand.
The divide extends to the White House. Obama said nothing unreasonable about the shooting, only that the country needed to get to the bottom of it. But he says nothing of the constant series of beatings and killings of whites by blacks. Various commentators have called him the first post-racial president. No. He is the first black president.
The policy of integration and the cult of diversity haven't worked. Over and over the hatred boils up and underlines the immiscibility of black and white. OJ, Rodney King, Travon, the Duke case, Towana Brawley, all the gang. Racial crimes against whites are buried, but now show up on Drudge in cell-phone videos. The races are not melding culturally. We have hate crime laws, unidirectional as they are, because we have hate crimes. We have to have laws forcing togetherness because we don't want togetherness.
Societies work best when they have a uniform culture. The next best thing is a dominant culture to which small numbers of people of similar culture must accommodate themselves. We see this in America with the Chinese, who are studious, industrious, abide by the laws, and do not set themselves in opposition to the ambient European ethos. They are few enough, similar enough, and quiet enough that it works.
But blacks are too many, too different, and too culturally raucous. Some syncretism occurs around the edges, yet even the middle classes of the two races mix seldom and somewhat awkwardly.
I do not see how things can change. The sprawling black regions of the cities are so homogeneous, so big, and so isolated from the white world, television aside, as not to be susceptible to outside influence. Whites do not go in, and blacks do not come out. A steady-state model of the universe, so to speak.
We are screwed.
I've been reading Fred Reed now for years... his exploits in Vietnam (which Jarhead would probably get a kick out of), his police columns in the Washington Times... and most of all, his nutty outlook on life. Some may call him a well-traveled certified nut case and he would probably agree with that description. Me, I think he's a poor mans Ernest Hemingway with a smelly cigar...Warph
Fred's Police Columns - He describes his nightly rides with the Capitol Hill Police and Arlington, VA Police Dept.:
"You may not like cops. Few do. They can be arrogant, impatient, rude. They can weary of a demanding, complaining public. Most are good people. A few are not. They are what we've got. They are out there, 24/7, with the psychopaths, the crash victims with the cartilage white where the flesh is gone, the week-old dead found by the reek, the snot, the blood, the cum, the maggots, the screaming half-crazed fifteen-year-old rape vtctims, the charred children caught in the fire with their guts exploded, the aged drunk women pissing in their pants in alleys and trying to crawl, the baby's brains on the windshield. You might get a bit odd too. You might get real damn odd. Think about it."
On his 'BRIEF HISTORY OF THE UNITED STATES: (cleverly done)
From Beginning to End
March 21, 2011
"In 1492 Columbus rediscovered America, and the settlers, destructively exploiting its vast resources, achieved a success which they attributed to their own near-miraculous virtues, some of which they actually had: courage, rude vigor, industry, and an independent spirit. Shortly after, they emerged from WWII unscathed due to the military genius embodied in two oceans while competitors—Europe, Russia, China, and Japan—lay prostrate. America's intact military and an economy up and running allowed the establishment of a fairly benign empire and an astonishing commercial dominance, both being attributed to near-miraculous virtues and regarded as permanent.
They didn't see it coming."
Read the rest of it here: http://fredoneverything.net/AmericanHistory.shtml
Not bad: the entirety of US history in 14 short paragraphs.
I think it is Dr. M. Savage who has been chiming for years, "Borders, language & culture!", reiterating that without these, a nation ceases to exist as a sovereign.
.
Subculture Clash
By Daniel J. Flynn on 3.30.12
The sad story of two stereotypes, Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman.
America's gifts to the world include the airplane, the polio vaccine, jazz, the gated community, and saggy-drawed, gold-toothed gangsta chic. These last two contributions came into deadly conflict last month at the Retreat at Twin Lakes in Sanford, Florida.
America is the land of the free, home of the gate. When don't-tread-on-me meets law-and-order, unchecked liberty experiences the perils of lawlessness and over-the-top security discovers it in a jail cell. That's the sad story of Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman.
Gated communities are cul-de-sacs suffering from a more severe neurosis. For the roughly 94 percent of Americans who don't live in Fortress America, it's easy to stereotype the denizens of the enclaves as overly-suspicious people cowering behind walls. There, a stranger isn't a friend you've never met but a guy fixing to heist your flat-screen television. Residents behind the fences seem as eager to snitch to the homeowners association on a neighbor's gauche Christmas ornamentation as he is to speed-dial the police about an unfamiliar pedestrian.
George Zimmerman did nothing to disabuse ungated Americans of such stereotypes. Since 2004, he has called the authorities 46 times. Potholes, trash in the road, unfamiliar automobiles, and even open garage doors weren't safe from his phone fetish. This busybodyism ended tragically on February 26. The initiate of the community's citizen watch program pursued an African-American teenager after a 911 dispatcher advised him not to. The African-American teenager objected more vehemently to the pursuit. Zimmerman responded to the physical assault with a firearm. Might overreaction be an issue for him?
Zimmerman's victim is exactly the kind of person who the residents of the Retreat at Twin Lakes sought to retreat from.
Trayvon Martin's Twitter account is a world where friends are "n-ggas," women are "b-tches," and English is a foreign language. His nom-de-tweet, "No Limit N---a," boasted of new tattoos, habitually arriving late for class, and smoking marijuana. He made repeated, degrading, unprintable references to women and their anatomies. "F-K DA SKOOL, F-K DA LUNCH, ND MOST OF ALL F-K DA FACULTY," he said of his high school. His high school said of him that he vandalized the building, possessed a pot pipe, and stored a cache of jewelry -- including silver wedding bands -- and a burglar's tool in his locker.
Trayvon Martin may have looked like the president's son. He didn't act like it. (Hmmmm... or did he)
What happened in Sanford, Florida, was a culture clash, just not in the way that Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and Bobby Rush imagine it. The Martin-Zimmerman conflict wasn't a black-white issue, or even a black-Hispanic issue. It's the culture of the urban gangsta conflicting with the culture of gated living. One might say that the former created the latter. From all appearances, the Miami high school student and the suburban Orlando neighborhood watch captain appear as archetypes of these two American subcultures.
We judge the actors, just as the actors judged one another, on the basis of limited information. Zimmerman assumed the hooded teenager to be a hoodlum. Martin assumed that he could manhandle the shorter, pudgier, older man in a fistfight. Their stereotypes proved correct, but only to a point. If Martin appeared as a nogoodnik, nobody but a dentist could say that he was up to no good that night by merely buying Arizona Iced Tea and a pack of Skittles. If Zimmerman looked an easy mark for a pugilist, the assessment erred in overlooking his weapon amidst his physical attributes.
Americans may have misconceptions about teenagers exuding thug fashion and gated-life busybodies. But they, in turn, have misconceptions about America. The bastion-dweller sees in the very real gates that surround an illusion that blocks out civilization -- or perhaps walls it in. The thug behaves as a barbarian with the unrealistic expectation those in the way will behave in a civilized manner. We live in our cocoons -- until reality invades.
There's bad news for both archetypes. Fifty-three percent of births in the U.S. to women under 30 -- the motherhood demographic -- occur without a father married to the child's mother. Teenage boys blindly grasping at models of faux-masculinity -- such as beltless, pants-dragging prison fashion -- is sure to rise with it. Gated developments have been booming in recent decades where the population has been booming (in the West and South). What the unwelcome mat in front of these communities seeks to keep out encroaches.
George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin were people. Now they're seen as clichés. This is their doing, not the media's.
The passionate partisans of both complain of the public's unfair stereotypes of them. A person who doesn't like being stereotyped shouldn't behave as one.
Clash? Yes. Sublulture or literary clash? I don't know.
In spite of any potential validity of other sociological assessments, the above article does assume some facts that are not in evidence. One for sure that was disputed under oath by the lead investigator just yesterday.
In this story, one mans "busybodyism" could be another mans 'community serviceism' (anybody can create new words).
The author's assumption that "The initiate of the community's citizen watch program pursued an African-American teenager after a 911 dispatcher advised him not to." is not fact, it's an assumption in dispute that has not been verified by clear evidence. In fact, it's been denied. It's also sounds biased in favor of the narrative that the likes of Jesse Jackson & Al Sharpton have spewed forth as fact.
"Zimmerman assumed the hooded teenager to be a hoodlum. Martin assumed that he could manhandle the shorter, pudgier, older man in a fistfight." Facts not in evidence? How do we know that Zimmerman judged Martin to be a "hoodlum"? And the lead investigator, under oath, said yesterday that there was no evidence of who initiated the physical altercation that ended in the shooting. While the lack of evidence inures to the legal benefit of Zimmerman's claim of being assaulted first, there is no basis in proven fact for the author's assumption which infers Martin struck first.
Since the author appears to be making a sociological analysis of this case, he only undermines the quality of his analysis by making baseless assumptions, IMO. It's unfortunate that the author's unsupported assumptions may be read by thousands, if not millions, and interpreted as fact.
How about we save the social analysis until AFTER we've determined the facts. Or at least make tentative analysis based on the facts that are known. And let's not be so afraid to say, "I don't know."
Then again, maybe the author was just writing an emotional thriller using colorful language...
"The bastion-dweller sees in the very real gates that surround an illusion that blocks out civilization -- or perhaps walls it in. The thug behaves as a barbarian with the unrealistic expectation those in the way will behave in a civilized manner. We live in our cocoons -- until reality invades."
Am I missing something? I just don't know.
That's right Patriot ---"you just don't know" So in the mean time let's lynch Zimmerman and let the chips lie where they fall. Seems kinda like when San Fran Nan said "we need to pass this bill so we can find out what's in it"---that set a precedent for how everything is being done---or is that too big'a stretch ?
Quote from: jarhead on April 21, 2012, 08:30:48 AM
That's right Patriot ---"you just don't know" So in the mean time let's lynch Zimmerman and let the chips lie where they fall. Seems kinda like when San Fran Nan said "we need to pass this bill so we can find out what's in it"---that set a precedent for how everything is being done---or is that too big'a stretch ?
To big'a stretch? Ask San Fran Nan's plastic surgeon. Apparently, there's room for more stretching as the sides of her mouth aren't touching her ears yet.
Yep you are right. Most liberal media outlets have judged Zimmerman guilty of murder without ever bringing out the facts... I wonder why that is? ::) The race mongering by the usual suspects, Lee, Sharpton, Jackson, NBPP, etc. have made it impossible for not only Martin to receive justice for the bullet that took his life... but also for Zimmerman.. who may have been trying to save his own. If Zimmerman were eventually to be brought up on charges, prosecuted and found not guilty... well, we have seen what happens when a jury of one's peers concludes differently than the race hustlers.
And Obuma deserves to be singled out for special condemnation (when is that ever not the case) by making inflammatory comments before the actual facts have been laid bare. Is it because he's half black... a malotto in a constitutional lawyers empty suit and being the prez, that he has a right to speak up in support of his liberal black pals? Why does it escape his little pea-sized brain that since he does not know the facts... certainly one cannot trust the press to convey them... that he should just offer his condolences and that justice will prevail in the end?