I can only speak for myself and my government school experience. I have no kids so I can't speak to today's schools. From K thru College I went to public school in Kansas, Missouri, California, and Alaska. 3 red states and one very blue state. Never did we discuss politics or did I know a teacher's political leanings. In College that did change and there were discussions on all of our beliefs. I still keep in touch with people from all states of my public school education. We range from redcliffsw conservatives, anarchists, socialists, republicans, democrats, and people that have no interest in any political dealings. We all went to public schools but all have very different political leanings. So all you detractors of public schools and "government" school explain how this can happen if we are indoctrinated. Your experience just doesn't match mine, where did you go to school. Just a rant on my part, I don't need for you to explain, but you can if you want. I just think you all must have gone to a school in an alternate universe.
David
Agreed David, agreed. ;) ;)
I went to private school, no my parents weren't rich, they had to sacrifice to send me there. It ment no new cars, no vacations, second hand clothing ect ect ect...
Also my parents weren't educated by the 60's and 70's educators either. They went to school when responsibility was taught. It wasn't ok to get pregnant in your senior year, it wasn't ok and acceptable to jump into bed with anyone you want. IT wasn't ok to smoke dope, tell your teachers to f off. It wasn't ok, to tell any adult to f off.
Those that did usually were branded bad kid and they generally were the dropouts. 60's and 70's was the era where the morality in schools went to hell, when humanism was started and taught in schools. after 40 years of that we see the results. Kids who when they go to college if they go to college have to take remedial courses before they can go to college cause they didn't learn squat in school.
its pretty bad when most of the kids that go to a college or votech have to take the basics all over again in order to function in a college.
Well for one thing - you've recited the Pledge of Allegiance (POA) in the government schools haven't you? The Pledge of Allegiance was invented by a socialist to indoctrinate government school children.
As a result of governemt education, the Pledge of Allegiance is ingrained in a lot of people. Many do not stop to even think about not reciting. Yet greater Americans never recited the socialist Pledge of Allegiance.
Quote from: redcliffsw on September 04, 2011, 05:51:44 AM
Well for one thing - you've recited the Pledge of Allegiance (POA) in the government schools haven't you? The Pledge of Allegiance was invented by a socialist to indoctrinate government school children.
As a result of governemt education, the Pledge of Allegiance is ingrained in a lot of people. Many do not stop to even think about not reciting. Yet greater Americans never recited the socialist Pledge of Allegiance.
with age comes wisdom!
Interesting.The main stream wants the pledge (and even prayer in the schools) and the radicals ,as always, will cook up some reason no matter how silly, to prevent it. You don't think private and parochial schools say the pledge in their schools? Some years back there was quite a discussion on here about what patriotism meant and what a patriot did to show it. Standing proud and saying the pledge was one of the main things that proved patriotism. Now I've got a big peach cobbler to make for a pool party later today. Have fun fussing y'all.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on September 04, 2011, 07:45:41 AM
Interesting.The main stream wants the pledge (and even prayer in the schools) and the radicals ,as always, will cook up some reason no matter how silly, to prevent it. You don't think private and parochial schools say the pledge in their schools? Some years back there was quite a discussion on here about what patriotism meant and what a patriot did to show it. Standing proud and saying the pledge was one of the main things that proved patriotism. Now I've got a big peach cobbler to make for a pool party later today. Have fun fussing y'all.
Thats a liberal patriotism. Its patriotism to the socialist government. A true patriot does not need a pledge. Secondly it flaunts and goes against anything christian to swear an oath! God said not to do such a thing and to let your yea's be yea and your nays be nay. A real patriot doesn't say their allegiance they live their allegiance.
Quote from: srkruzich on September 04, 2011, 07:55:00 AM
Thats a liberal patriotism. Its patriotism to the socialist government. A true patriot does not need a pledge. Secondly it flaunts and goes against anything christian to swear an oath! God said not to do such a thing and to let your yea's be yea and your nays be nay. A real patriot doesn't say their allegiance they live their allegiance.
Careful! You're beginning to sound like a Quaker! :D
It has been my observation over 5 decades that the government sanctioned education system exists not as a means to an end, but rather to promote itself as an end in itself. Academia, and too many of its proponents within, seem to see a government education as the ultimate objective in life, or even as life itself. It is not. Academia appears, all to often, a parallel universe that exists alongside reality striving to explain, rationalize and avoid life's challenges, rather than experientially face and change them. It seeks, in short, to create more academics. Look to the 'father of modern education' to see the seeds that brought forth the tree which is our current government education system. A tree exists to produce fruit after its own kind...
John Dewey and the Chaos of Contemporary Public Education
Gennady Stolyarov II
The dismal and declining student performance at America's public schools is no accident. Nor is the pervasive bullying by peers and repression by teachers that the brightest, best-mannered, and most accomplished students encounter in public schools today. Both are the direct results of the educational philosophy promulgated by John Dewey (1859-1952), the originator of "Progressive" education and a self-proclaimed advocate of collectivism and opponent of teaching objective knowledge in the schools. Dewey's ideas have largely shaped the ways in which today's American public education system works—or, more accurately, does not work.
To call John Dewey a socialist is no exaggeration or derogatory epithet... In the 1920s, Dewey wrote extensively in praise of the Soviet education system—so much that he was invited to visit the Soviet Union in 1928 and observe schools in the USSR. He based many of his recommendations for American education on the Soviet model.
Two of Dewey's foremost targets were individualism and objective truth. In his 1920 work, Reconstruction in Philosophy, Dewey vehemently opposed the classic Western idea of the individual as "something given, something already there." Consequently, he derided the free, capitalistic society, where the individual tends to be viewed as "something to be catered to, something whose pleasures are to be magnified and possessions multiplied."
Instead, Dewey asserted, society is what makes the individual who he is, and social institutions "are not means for obtaining something for individuals, not even happiness. They are means of creating individuals." So much for the Founding Fathers' conviction that the inalienable individual rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are primary and that "to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men." For Dewey, society and government come first; they shape individuals and make them what they are, and it is ultimately "society," through government, that must decide how each individual is to best serve "it."
Full article: http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/Blog/?p=565 (http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/Blog/?p=565)
Or, to quote the noted socialist, Hillary Clinton, "It takes a village to raise a child."
So, for those you who have always talked about Howard as a good place to raise kids and how every parent watched over all the kids, not just their own, it was a socialist activity? And here I just thought it was the right thing to do.
Quote from: Mom70x7 on September 04, 2011, 08:07:32 AM
Careful! You're beginning to sound like a Quaker! :D
A Quaker? He sounds like an American.
Pledging Allegiance to the Omnipotent Lincolnian State
Francis Bellamy said that one purpose of the Pledge of Allegiance was to help accomplish his lifelong goal of making his cousin's socialist fantasy a reality in America. He further stated that the "true reason for allegiance to the Flag" was to indoctrinate American school children in the false history of the American founding that was espoused first by Daniel Webster and, later, by Abraham Lincoln.
The public schools must be used to teach blind obedience to the state, the Bellamys reasoned, and the National Education Association was pleased to help them accomplish this goal. They planned a "National Public School Celebration" in 1892, which was the first national propaganda campaign on behalf of the Pledge of Allegiance. It was a massive campaign that involved government schools and politicians throughout the country. The government schools were promoted, along with the Pledge, while private schools, especially parochial ones, were criticized.
-Dr. Thomas DiLorenzo
http://www.lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo54.html
Quote from: Diane Amberg on September 04, 2011, 11:33:18 AM
So, for those you who have always talked about Howard as a good place to raise kids and how every parent watched over all the kids, not just their own, it was a socialist activity? And here I just thought it was the right thing to do.
Howard? Community? Parents? The topic was government run schools at large. Trying to narrow the perspective so as to emotionalize and deflect readers from the broader issues is both
disingenuous and intellectually dishonest. The parents and community values are not at issue. The NEA driven agenda and government sanctioned processes which adopt Marxist & Fabian principles and philosophies is. Read Dewey again. His agenda and theory are at issue, not parents.
Quote from: redcliffsw on September 04, 2011, 05:51:44 AM
Well for one thing - you've recited the Pledge of Allegiance (POA) in the government schools haven't you? The Pledge of Allegiance was invented by a socialist to indoctrinate government school children.
As a result of governemt education, the Pledge of Allegiance is ingrained in a lot of people. Many do not stop to even think about not reciting. Yet greater Americans never recited the socialist Pledge of Allegiance.
Red yes I have in school. During grade school and Jr. High in Kansas and Missouri. Never in High School in California or Alaska. Never since.
Here is what the Pledge meant to me in my grade school mind. Twinkle, Twinkle litttle star.... Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled peppers...
The pledge was inconsiquential(sp? sorry I went to public school) then and now to me. The only one giving it any meaning is you and I know you are not a socialist.
David
Ah yes, Fabian...loved his hair and music. angel:
Quote from: Diane Amberg on September 04, 2011, 07:57:13 PM
Ah yes, Fabian...loved his hair and music. angel:
Mock if you must Ms Independent Progressive. For those readers who prefer fact to foolishness, truth to tomfoolery, and intelligence to idiocy, the Fabian Society's objective, since its founding in 1883 has been a gradual shift of western political policies to socialism. It's alive and well to this very day. And it is succeeding. In Western Europe and in North America... Diane Amberg, in my opinion, is living evidence.
Making a mockery of things as serious as manipulation of societal and political evolution toward socialism is not only ignorant, it's dangerous to our posterity. My kids and grandkids (and yours, for that mater) are important to me. I wish for them all that our founders envisioned. The free republic established in our Constitution, with all its limits on government, represents their best hope of that.
From the Encyclopædia Britannica: Fabian Society, socialist society founded in 1883–84 in London, having as its goal the establishment of a democratic socialist state in Great Britain. The Fabians put their faith in evolutionary socialism rather than in revolution.
The name of the society is derived from the Roman general Fabius Cunctator, whose patient and elusive tactics in avoiding pitched battles secured his ultimate victory over stronger forces. Its founding is attributed to Thomas Davidson, a Scottish philosopher, and its early members included George Bernard Shaw, Sidney Webb, Annie Besant, Edward Pease, and Graham Wallas...
Here is a bit of what the "independent" left of center Fabian Society says about itself:
About the Fabian Society
Who we are
The Fabian Society has played a central role for more than a century in the development of political ideas and public policy on the left of centre. Analysing the key challenges facing the UK and the rest of the industrialised world in a Neil Kinnock interviewed by Michael White changing society and global economy, the society's programme aims to explore the political ideas and the policy reforms which will define progressive politics in the new century.
The society is unique among think-tanks in being a democratically-constituted membership organisation. It is affiliated to the Labour Party but is editorially and organisationally independent. Through its publications, seminars and conferences, the society provides an arena for open-minded public debate.
Here is a link to the Fabian Society website: http://www.fabians.org.uk/ (http://www.fabians.org.uk/)
Quote from: Mom70x7 on September 04, 2011, 08:07:32 AM
Careful! You're beginning to sound like a Quaker! :D
There were Quakers in my EK family. I can't check with my Mom, but as I remember the story they were expelled or quit or both. I have a special spot in my heart for Quakers. I have Pacifist leanings that I think came from my Quaker roots.
David
That reminds me of a family joke about
Friends
University at
Coffeyville
Kansas. Some of you will have heard that before and know what I mean.
LOLOLOLOLOL ;D ;D ;D :o :o :o ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: sodbuster on September 04, 2011, 10:17:17 PM
David
That reminds me of a family joke about Friends University at Coffeyville Kansas. Some of you will have heard that before and know what I mean.
And you David had the audacity to call me vulgar for using the word ass, and you talked about setting an example for the children that mignt read the forum. And then you pull this sophmoric stunt. Terrible, just terrible.
Come on. Part of being an adult is to use appropriate language. Now your just getting downright vulgar. Obviously good raising didn't take with you david as it is not acceptable to use language like this in public much less mixed company.
Quote from: srkruzich on September 05, 2011, 07:02:45 AM
Obviously good raising didn't take with you david as it is not acceptable to use language like this in public much less mixed company.
And, to think we were just discussing the demise of education, weren't we? Hrrrmmm.
Quote from: Patriot on September 05, 2011, 07:09:00 AM
We were just discussing the demise of education, weren't we? Hrrrmmm.
Yes. I believe its been said that it shows a major lack of education as well as intellegence when one cannot express themselves without using vulgar language. There are approximate 475,000 words in the english language and for some reason folks just can't get past the 100 or so obscene words that exist in our language.
Its also interesting to note that Intellegent people, ones with degrees generally do not use base language while those who are uneducated and lower intellegence do use it!
It hadn't occurred to me, Steve, but you are right. Most of the people that I know that use base language are not the best educated. Perhaps they use base language because they haven't had a chance to learn anything else. I have also noticed that they don't do much reading.
Quote from: Wilma on September 05, 2011, 07:34:51 AM
It hadn't occurred to me, Steve, but you are right. Most of the people that I know that use base language are not the best educated. Perhaps they use base language because they haven't had a chance to learn anything else. I have also noticed that they don't do much reading.
Wilma and Steve are right. And if this isn't an indictment of the government school system, what is? We entrust our children to this system, under the force of law. When does that system begin to honestly assume a proportionate share of the responsibility for failed outcomes that it so readily tries to lay at the feet of 'uninvolved' parents. After all, look at the number of waking hours our children are exposed to 'the system' and its structured environment vs the number of hours elsewhere. Perhaps academia is producing exactly what it desires... an illiterate and/or unthinking mass that must come to depend on government.... for either their direction.... or their food. Just a thought.
One of the most beautiful buildings in Wichita is Friends University; I used to love to visit the museum that is housed there. The building itself is one of the few public ones around that has not fallen victim to the 'improvement' of paint. And one of my favorite pieces of jewelry is a rather large gold watch fob that I wear on a ribbon around my neck. It is inscribed on one side F U, and on the other is the date 1926 awarded for debate. I always try to wear this when I want to be eloquent, it hasn't failed me yet. And F U has been a long standing joke in Wichita where I was born and reared. David I did not know that there was a Friends University in Coffeyville. ???
Patriot, you're right on target.
Many of the so-called "educated" are liberal and socialistic.
Most politicians and economists are Keynesian (socialist) - well educated.
The gov't owned education system promotes socialism.
By the way, Friends Un teaches Keynesian economics like most of 'em. Just another education organization spreading liberalism.
Ok, then, so what schools DO you approve of? I've said many times I don't care where it comes from, a good solid basic education is a must, and then follow that with some kind of higher education that fits the person. Home schooling is just; fine private schools are good too.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on September 05, 2011, 08:29:43 AM
Ok, then, so what schools DO you approve of? I've said many times I don't care where it comes from, a good solid basic education is a must, and then follow that with some kind of higher education that fits the person. Home schooling is just; fine private schools are good too.
IT isn't schools that we don't approve of. Its the curriculum that is being taught as well as the interference in Federal government in schools as well as the interferenece in teachers unions with the education of kids. I know teachers can deny it all they want it still doesn't change the fact that the Teachers unions are anathama to a good education. NUMBER ONE problem is collective bargaining and contracts that they secure for teachers which makes it almost impossible to fire a bad teacher! It costs millions nationwide every year to even attempt to get rid of a bad teacher all the while these bad teachers are paid until you can get rid of them.
Furthermore the cost associated with union collective bargaining is nothing short of stealing the money allocated for education. Comments from students include:
"Most of the teachers they're like -- they don't really care."
"One of my teachers tells me he does this for the health benefits."
"I've seen teachers come to school intoxicated."
Joel Klein now presides over a calcified monopoly where it's hard to fire anyone for anything.
One New York teacher decided that one of his 16-year-old students was hot. So he sat down at a computer and sent a sexual e-mail to Cutee101.
"He admits this," said Klein. "We had the e-mail."
"You can't fire him?"
"It's almost impossible."
It's almost impossible because of the rules in the New York schools' 200-page contract with their teachers. There are so many rules that principals rarely even try to jump through all the hoops to fire a bad teacher. It took six years of expensive litigation before the teacher who wrote Cutee101 was fired. During those six years, he received more than $300,000 in salary.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/Commentary/com-2_15_06_JS.html
GET Rid of teachers unions several things would happen to change education in this country. FIRST Of all GOOD teachers would make more money. Second of all, you can fire the sorry ones in a NEW YORK Second and rightfully so. T
Next you need to get rid of Dept of Ed. GET the feds out of it completely. Not their jurisdiction! This would return the power of education back to local municipalities and where it belongs. Get rid of political agendas which dictate where the money goes. It would also force schools to become more efficient in that there would be no more cash cow to suck from. MAYBE just MAYBE if we got to that point, Education would become a priority in the school systems besides football baseball and playing around!
My mom had it right years ago, the majority of people in this country serve another god. The god of sports, the god of football baseball and basketball.
Quote from: sodbuster on September 04, 2011, 10:17:17 PM
There were Quakers in my EK family. I can't check with my Mom, but as I remember the story they were expelled or quit or both. I have a special spot in my heart for Quakers. I have Pacifist leanings that I think came from my Quaker roots.
David
David - I have some old Quaker roots as well. When my Mom joined the Society of Friends in Lawrence, her folks (the Wisners and Andersons) were distraught, until someone pointed out they had some Quakers in their background. It was okay, then, for her to have joined.
This is strictly my own opinion, but I think years ago the Fed. Gov't was involved in eduction to try to do some leveling from areas with poor...both meanings...and more affluent areas.
Then there was the forced deseg. thing that happened in many states. New Castle County was caught up in that busing for many years. There was a also a "white flight" to build private schools then that was just unbelievable. Even the predominately black communities were divided on what was best.
Kids from professional black families then sent their kids to private schools too.That really upset the public education apple cart here. It was a grand experiment that failed.
Now everyone wants to their kids to go to their local neighborhood schools or get into a Charter or Choice school.
But we still see, as we always have, kids who transfer from some deeply southern schools, usually because of job hunting,who are way behind their grade level here and have to have a lot of remedial work or repeat a grade. I saw it in my own classes years ago and my teacher friends now say it hasn't changed much. It's not the kids fault if they live in an area that can't afford reading books but what can one do? Some will say "well they should have lap tops."...Sure, let them eat cake.
So with out the "Gov't Interference what are poor schools in poverty areas to do, fall further and further behind?" There are exciting things going on in states around here with schools partnering with industry and also colleges, but I'll not bore you with that.
As far as the addiction to sports...I agree but what does one do?
Do you think the Federal involvement in Education is recent, like in the 1940's or 50's?
Quote from: Diane Amberg on September 05, 2011, 10:31:08 AM
This is strictly my own opinion, but I think years ago the Fed. Gov't was involved in eduction to try to do some leveling from areas with poor...both meanings...and more affluent areas.
So with out the "Gov't Interference what are poor schools in poverty areas to do, fall further and further behind?" There are exciting things going on in states around here with schools partnering with industry and also colleges, but I'll not bore you with that.
Get real! After the War For Southern Independence, the fed's separated blacks and whites. The Fed's encouraged hate between them.
The Federales got involved in Education right after the War For Southern Independence. They wanted to teach the South a lesson to never rebel against the Fed's again. Wasn't that against the Founding Fathers? Sure was. Yet today, most worship an all powerful Federal Gov't from Washington DC and even call it Patriotism. I call it socialism.
Without Gov't interference? Why don't you understand that the Fed's have been in Education all along and that socialism does not work? Interference? They've been there all along and it doesn't get any better.
"Exciting things" - yeah, we've heard that before......
-
Quote from: Diane Amberg on September 05, 2011, 10:31:08 AM
So with out the "Gov't Interference what are poor schools in poverty areas to do, fall further and further behind?"
To answer this burning question. EXACTLY THE SAME THING they are doing even with Government interference. OBVIOUSLY the Feds don't give a rats ass about it. Which pretty much proves the feds interference is NOT working.
QuoteThere are exciting things going on in states around here with schools partnering with industry and also colleges, but I'll not bore you with that.
Now that's a whole different ball of wax! Corps and industries and all partnering is local community not Federal government using tax money. When local companies do it, its a investment. They expect a return on their investment. The government doesn't put such requirements. When local business does invest, they want the best not the adequate! When Feds do it, they want adequate not the best because the best will challenge federal government.
QuoteAs far as the addiction to sports...I agree but what does one do?
Simple. IS It a need? Nope?? Cut it. Its that simple. Screw what the parents think. IF they want football let them pay for it.
I will repost what I deleted as I didn't think it was true to the conversation, however here goes anyway:
To see what is mandated for school education, one has to look at what is being dictated as to subjuct, poliicies, funding, etc.
The schools are funded not only by the State (our tax dollars), and also by the Fereal Governmnet...per special outliers (nutrition, Challenged physically/mentally, etc), as well I am sure more.
Throw in whoever is in charge and madates the regulations either it be the labor unions, the Lobbyists, the demography of the Policital Party or whatever....then you will have chaos.
Face it folks, the King of the Hill usually wins unless we don't like the king!
Home schooling looks better and better to me, and I don't have kids, yet I pay for the school district of some things I am against.
I truly do not think there is only one solution...It's like trying to blow 4 separate holes with only one stick of dynamite.
ready
Why not eliminate seeking or accepting any solutions from the State and Feds?
Education should be none of their business. They shouldn't be interfering in our Liberty.
The founding fathers never made provisions for any such authority in education.
I don't know why I bother.
I have no idea how old you are so I can't possibly know your level of life experience, but if it all comes from paid conservative bloggers and commercials that start with "shocking" and "what "they" don't want you to know," then it might be a bit lacking in depth. It's probably not your fault.
Did you go to any kind of school or quit as soon as you could?
Did you step out of a time machine? "The Feds" separated blacks and whites? My, "they" must have been really old by then. Who specifically are you talking about? and when?
Orville Faubus was a "Fed?" I thought he was the Governor of Arkansas. That's one famous case. If you are talking about the military, that is true, but only because the white officers didn't think blacks were worth anything as soldiers and refused to accept them for a very long time. Who do you think then desegregated the military?
"We've heard that before? Why so pessimistic? None of these people are my age, much younger. I'm glad they are still willing to give it a go.Totally different people. Why lie down and quit?
Red, the constitution doesn't prohibit states from handling education either. How ancient are you anyway? :o ;D
Steve, how can you possibly take the sport priority away from the parents? They'll be happy to tell you it's what they want and it's their tax money to spend as THEY see fit.
I don't agree with it either. But... those kind of priorities and demanding permissive teachers and the "My Kid is Perfect" attitude partly got us all in this mess in the first place.
I remember back in the early 70's when the parents of some kids in Newark High School suddenly DEMANDED smoking lounges at school for their kids. Led to all kind of problems that I won't go into here. They actually bullied the school board into spending money for smoking areas and cigarette machines. Ya know how parents will talk about a phase that their child is going through? Apparently parents will do the same!. Then the parents and the PTA demanded candy and soda machines for the kids. More messes to clean up, and the start of overweight kids.
Steve that "Investment" policy has been around for a long time. UD's big Chemical engineering program has always been supported by grants and scholarships from the chemical companies here... DuPont, Hercules and others, who then hire the best of the
graduates. Instant life long well paid career. They just have to be willing to move when they are transferred. It happens in a lot of professional sectors actually. But don't think it isn't your money. Many raise the prices of their products to support what they are doing. Not the same as taxes, but you don't think it's from their bottom line do ya?
But that's a good thing. When the school in Maryland I taught in got Federal money, 'cause we had so many poor kids, the teachers were given the money to decide how it was spent. It actually made it to the classroom. State money often never gets there. Now unfortunately, there may be lots of restrictions and guide lines. I'll have to ask my younger teacher friends who still work there.
By the way, I talked to my niece in Scottsdale this morning, the one who went to Wilmington Friends.She confirmed that they never said the Pledge.
QuoteWhy not eliminate seeking or accepting any solutions from the State and Feds?
ok by me...however on the flip side, you will have rich parents with kids that are really 'talented', and I use that term lightly to balk at the idea they have to foot the bill.
the old adage "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" doesn not now apply...It is broke...more ways than one!
ready
Quote from: readyaimduck on September 05, 2011, 12:25:12 PM
I truly do not think there is only one solution...It's like trying to blow 4 separate holes with only one stick of dynamite.
ready
You are so correct, Ready. Great post.
QuoteWhen the school in Maryland I taught in got Federal Monies (sic)
well, that is in Maryland at your school a few years ago, and this is Kansas.
We now have a whole lot of different bucket of wor......ahem...Senators/Representatives in office now....
or are they still getting re-elected (like the only bull for a pasture of heifers?)
ready
I think there should be a lot of home schooling, starting from the time the child is born. They should be taught all the social graces, how to address their elders, how to sit still and be quiet when someone else is talking, etc., etc. Yessirree, education begins at home.
Wilma:
That would be exquisite if only the parent knew those etiquettes.
Unfortunately, most don't. So now, the norm is: it is up to the granparents, and by then it is too late or wasted breath.
ready
Ready, I was referring to Federal money.There shouldn't have been any difference between Title I or III in Kansas or Maryland. I don't know how it is now.Things have changed a lot and not for the better in many cases.
Wilma, Newark Charter teaches school deportment.
Why don't all parents still teach that it at home? When did it change? There have always been a few bullies at school and in the neighborhood. Not sure how the schools can be blamed for that, but I'm sure some will try ;) I think I know, but I'll let others take the challenge as it's very complicated.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on September 05, 2011, 04:01:02 PM
Why don't all parents still teach that it at home?
One reason is that parents have been raised in the government system. Second is they are also under attack all the time by the government system. Parents have been jailed for trying to give their kids the best education.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on September 05, 2011, 12:54:01 PM
Steve, how can you possibly take the sport priority away from the parents? They'll be happy to tell you it's what they want and it's their tax money to spend as THEY see fit.
Simple. ITS NOT A NEED. It is extra curricular activity. that means OUTSIDE of the curriculum, not a part of education. They have no right to it. They cannot allocate their tax dollar to sports which is not educational. The tax which is used is doled out for education and not sports but somehow they allowed it to get funded by the tax dollar. IF They wish to have sports, pay for it out of their pockets!
QuoteInstant life long well paid career. They just have to be willing to move when they are transferred. It happens in a lot of professional sectors actually.
what is so bad about this??
QuoteBut don't think it isn't your money. Many raise the prices of their products to support what they are doing. Not the same as taxes, but you don't think it's from their bottom line do ya?
You know what, I doubt it comes from raising the product price. They get a massive tax break from investing in schools. They also get in return for the money first dibs basically on any good quality workers.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on September 05, 2011, 12:54:01 PM
I don't know why I bother.
I have no idea how old you are so I can't possibly know your level of life experience, but if it all comes from paid conservative bloggers and commercials that start with "shocking" and "what "they" don't want you to know," then it might be a bit lacking in depth. It's probably not your fault.
Did you go to any kind of school or quit as soon as you could?
Did you step out of a time machine? "The Feds" separated blacks and whites? My, "they" must have been really old by then. Who specifically are you talking about? and when?
Orville Faubus was a "Fed?" I thought he was the Governor of Arkansas. That's one famous case. If you are talking about the military, that is true, but only because the white officers didn't think blacks were worth anything as soldiers and refused to accept them for a very long time. Who do you think then desegregated the military?
"We've heard that before? Why so pessimistic? None of these people are my age, much younger. I'm glad they are still willing to give it a go.Totally different people. Why lie down and quit?
Red, the constitution doesn't prohibit states from handling education either. How ancient are you anyway? :o ;D
Diane, why are you so ignorant? You relying on your socialized public education? Or just because you read Uncle Tom's Cabin does not make you an expert.
The Fed's separated the blacks and whites right after the War For Southern Independence. Reconstruction. Yet you don't know that or understand that either. Where all did you go to school? And you taught school? You're indoctrination is really showing today.
The Confederate Army was integrated - yet you didn't know that either. The yankee army was segregated. The U S military was integrated in the late 1940's or early 50's. The CSA was way ahead on that one too.
The Constitution prohibits the Gov't from taking our Liberty. You don't understand that. It's like you support something foreign to the founding fathers and the Constitution. Is it your yankee heritage or socialistic education, or both, that caused you to think like that?
Steve, you'll never get a consensuses from a bunch of parents on what a "need" is. Some would indeed defend sports as a need for their child. I'm not disagreeing with you.
As far as DuPont producing people with good life long careers, there is nothing wrong with it. It's a way of life here. I didn't say anything against it. Please tell me about these massive tax breaks you think businesses get for investing in schools.
If some big company tells your community they'll build here and create jobs if you give them tax breaks for x numbers of years. What happens? Tax breaks actually cut into money which would have gone to the local schools. The big business accounts know exactly how to make that work in their favor.They never come out behind no matter what.
Red, you know perfectly well I'm not "ignorant"and saying so doesn't make it so. Trying to insult me doesn't work either. I never said or thought that the Confederate army wasn't integrated, whether on an equal footing is something else entirely. In some cases yes, they did have equal footing and went willingly. In some cases slaves were promised their freedom if they fought, and some were taken, forced to serve their masters ,often officers, by cooking, doing laundry, loading weapons and so on. Show me some old photos of Black Confederate Officers. How about some photos of any black Confederate troops? There have to be some somewhere.
The Civil War wasn't the only war ya know. Do you even acknowledge the existence of others? I actually had other wars in mind, like the Indian Wars and and WWII etc. Then, as now many of the military bases were in the south, so who objected to blacks in the post Civil war Army? Perhaps you should broaden your history reading a little.
Have you ever lived in the north or been exposed to Yankees? We don't really have horns, it's just a myth. I have and had lots of southern relatives. Do you have any northern ones?
If you are a Civil War expert from personal experience, then you are much older than I thought.
Here ya go diane..
(http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.usgennet.org/usa/mo/county/stlouis/sc-blackcs.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.usgennet.org/usa/mo/county/stlouis/blackcs.htm&h=676&w=539&sz=47&tbnid=Szn8VB4jHSK1bM:&tbnh=92&tbnw=73&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dphotos%2Bof%2Bblack%2Bconfederate%2Bsoldiers%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=photos+of+black+confederate+soldiers&docid=XJu1TkxT45BHFM&sa=X&ei=lm9lTpTvCsngsQKK0fCJCg&ved=0CCoQ9QEwAg&dur=800)
(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRlWnpnH5E9Njr_AxDXsHUxU8agClz0OkLTOn6MuMq_IJEZvQ380w)
(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSHO4BNOaMVT7M9QbEoRD5AoWoC2qESqPKMgZuFXF-KfV9WaeuY6Q)
(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRGvmQUyfKJnS0DGYq3aJi_exqH2tCVz1RH9LWQrnAYbEYxk7es)
(http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/slavery/black-confederate-1.jpg)
I am not sure of the last one, the others though are real photos as they are tin types.
Diane, you're yankee all the way. I was raised in South Kansas around you Republicans whose ancestors created this socialistic environment we all live in nowadays. There's never been such a thing as a "conservative" Republican in Elk county as far as I know. I doubt there's a real Democrat in Elk County except for the ones in the cemeteries.
The yankees conscripted blacks into their segregated forces. Some were made to join the north by force. The yankees used slave labor in the South. The black union soldiers were expendable to the north. The Yankees used black soldiers as cannon fodder.
Slavery was legal back then and that's the way it was. However, the blacks who looked to freedom sought that same freedom that Americans had back then, not the so-called modernistic freedom and socialism that we have now. They fought against the modern day "freedom" of Lincoln just like the all the other Southerners. Now we talk about our "democracy" because we vote to take others' money and give it away. Political victories for some who deny us individual liberty.
They prefer to teach "democracy" and Keynesian in the schools because that's the government schools' pipeline to the money taken by the government from folks or borrowed from the Chinese, and they've created a debt for Americans not even born yet.
Srkruzich, thanks for the photos of the black Confederates. They stood for our liberty.
Quote from: readyaimduck on September 05, 2011, 03:41:52 PM
Wilma:
That would be exquisite if only the parent knew those etiquettes.
Unfortunately, most don't. So now, the norm is: it is up to the granparents, and by then it is too late or wasted breath.
ready
Absolutely correct, Ready...Most parents these days don't have the ability to teach etiquette, as they don't use it themselves. I really feel for the grandparents who are raising their grandchildren these days...They raised one generation and are now forced to have to do so with a second generation. One of the things that I find distressing is that this newest generation has no idea what it is to have or show gratitude for what is done for them...It is a total attitude of entitlement. Who do we thank for that? Their parents.
Nope, everything is huinky dory in the schools !!
Colorado School Comes Under Fire for Hanging Saudi Flag Higher Than American Flag
Published September 05, 2011
An elementary school in Colorado has come under criticism after they lowered the American flag and elevated a Saudi Arabian flag.
The principal at Bauder Elementary School in Fort Collins said they did not mean to disrespect the American flag, according to a report in the Greeley Gazzette.
Principal Brian Carpenter told the newspaper that the American flag was immediately returned to its proper and prominent position at the school.
He explained that other flags are posted around the school to recognize the nationalities of students from other countries.
Quote from: Catwoman on September 05, 2011, 08:31:25 PM
Absolutely correct, Ready...Most parents these days don't have the ability to teach etiquette, as they don't use it themselves. I really feel for the grandparents who are raising their grandchildren these days...They raised one generation and are now forced to have to do so with a second generation. One of the things that I find distressing is that this newest generation has no idea what it is to have or show gratitude for what is done for them...It is a total attitude of entitlement. Who do we thank for that? Their parents.
Entitlement mentality comes from the government, the progressives aka liberals aka socialists. It has been taught in the schools for at least three decades.
Quote from: Wilma on September 05, 2011, 02:54:12 PM
I think there should be a lot of home schooling, starting from the time the child is born. They should be taught all the social graces, how to address their elders, how to sit still and be quiet when someone else is talking, etc., etc. Yessirree, education begins at home.
I agree with Wilma...And I know of no parents who are in the Socialist party, sorry, Steve...I only know a bunch who are at the mercy of the Demo's and the Republicans. And NO...I know of absolutely NO educators who are teaching an attitude of entitlement to their students...Quite the contrary...They are having to battle that attitude in order to impart any knowledge at all to this newest generation of little darlings.
Cat I agree.
Steve, those are great old photos! Thanks for posting them. As I said way back, I had family members of long ago who had brothers who fought on both sides of the Civil War. History is history. I just don't why some continue to live as if it's still going on.
Red, so now it's the old Repubs fault? You are going to soon run out of people to blame for stuff.That's funny.
Yup, that's me Red, an old Yankee moderate Independent just using my liberty to express my feelings.
Diane, it's no wonder you can't connect the dots from the Lincolnian Marxists to now. Yes, it was 150 years ago, yet our founding fathers established this country more than 200 years ago and tossed out the British for much less than your own socialistic beliefs. The Constitution was created a long time ago too. Southerners stood for the Constitution and liberty - self determination. The north did not - the north changed America.
You can claim to have had family on both sides. Goody for you. What does that make you?
A Constitutionalist or a Marxist?
Or perhaps you're a "moderate"?
Perhaps she's an American, Red...Remember that particular kind of critter? The kind that stands with its fellow Americans proudly? The kind that doesn't strive, at every turn to divide and destroy?
Heres my thoughts on moderates.
Rev 3:15 KJV - I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Rev 3:16 KJV - So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Quote from: Catwoman on September 06, 2011, 06:53:21 PM
Perhaps she's an American, Red...Remember that particular kind of critter? The kind that stands with its fellow Americans proudly? The kind that doesn't strive, at every turn to divide and destroy?
Country of citizenship is a whole bunch different than political philosophy. Last I checked, Anwar Alaki (sp), the latest member if the elite CIA Kill/Capture club is an 'American'. Just as with livestock, there are citizens who have worms... especially those who have been inadequately inoculated with a good dose of American founding principles and constitutional understanding.
Patriot, your own physical condition is none of our business...That's a TMI moment...Ugh. ;D