........ So the question becomes, whom are you going to believe – the
men who were there and participated, or PBS and the History Channel?
-Mychal Massie
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=320953
Better go back and carefully read this piece. If the constitution was written in 1787, when Jefferson was in Paris, how did he or anyone else sign it in 1776? Also Jefferson wanted the constitution rewritten every 19 years, also expressing that "the dead should not rule the living." He too wanted term limits.
Imagine Mychal Massie typing Constitution where it should be Declaration of Independence, not once but twice in the same article. Franklin, Jefferson, and Adams are all signers of the Declaration, of the three only Franklin also signed the Constitution. And Adams letter to his wife was in response to signing the Declaration.
Plus the body of the article is about the Constitution, not the Declaration of Independence, so just how mixed up is he? I sure wouldn't want Mr. Massie teaching history to anyone.
I'm sure Red will chalk it up to being the result of receiving a 'government' education.
Diane, the Declaration of Independence was written in 1776 and old George was around then. ;D
On September 17, 1787, the Constitution was completed, followed by a speech given by Benjamin Franklin, who urged unanimity, although the Convention decided that only nine states were needed to ratify. The Convention submitted the Constitution to the Congress of the Confederation.
History lesson for today. 8)
Larryj
Larry, I assure you I know all that. We're the first star and all that. It's right on our flag. December 7, 1787.The writer was saying that Thomas Jefferson signed the Constitution...not true. How someone who expects to have a loyal following and a "comment maker" like Red could screw that up is beyond me. Especially after Red's sarcastic remark about who to believe...must not have read it himself. I take no pleasure in this, but it's one reason I'm very skeptical about all those "Experts" out there in Blogland. As you can see I do read them, but....
Diane, you seem to be very concerned about Massie's errors. Your liberals (experts with solutions) have done much damage to this country and yet you don't seem the bit concerned and to think it OK to violate the Constitution as long as a vote is taken - then call it democracy. You're well educated (or should we say indoctinated?).
Of course I'm concerned! You aren't? Why not? Remember it took a teacher to spot it. Why didn't you? You know I am not a liberal and calling me one doesn't make it so. No you may not call me indoctrinated. I think for myself. I have huge concerns about a great many things the Gov't does, but I don't choose to lay them out for all to see, like some do. There are also things I just can't share publicly.
If I'm such a liberal explain to me why I read all those things you post? Do you look at the ads that surround them? See who they are catering to? Speaking of sheeple! People like Massie have a much higher responsibility to be correct because of his loyal following who believe every word. Terrible misinformation becomes "truth" because of that kind of thing, especially among people who don't have much education and don't know it's wrong. Al took Constitutional Law at UD. It was a bear of a course and I helped him study. They learned more about the ins and outs and strengths and weaknesses and potential for abuse than I thought possible. Whether I liked it or not I learned a lot too. That document wasn't meant to be forever. Even the framers thought so. But it has become as sacred as the Bible. Jefferson knew there were weaknesses in it and said so; he wanted it rewritten every 19 years so it would be appropriate for all. But that's another very long conversation.
Quote from: redcliffsw on July 19, 2011, 05:38:06 AM
........ So the question becomes, whom are you going to believe – the
men who were there and participated, or PBS and the History Channel?
-Mychal Massie
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=320953
I have not read the article this quote came from. But I will tell you that the History Channel plays fast and loose with some of their programs. There have been many times hubby has turned the channel in disgust. Some of the "facts" in their programs are just plain WRONG.
Lisa
Diane, if you are not a liberal, then what do you claim to be? You appear to be very liberal to me.
The constitution was in fact a rewrite of the articles of confederation of which you can bet your bippe that lincoln had his hand in it. Jefferson did sign the articles of confederation. And this country operated under it from day 1 til after the civil war when they suddenly decided ohh they needed to rewrite it. Why? Because under the Articles, States had rights! They had the right to secede from the union. So therefore a rewrite was necessary to avoid this niggling little problem again!
Not all of it was rewritten. Some of it is unable to be rewritten unless you dissolve the country first through a Constitutional Convention. That was a very brilliant move by the founders!
Red, you have asked me that question several times before and I have always answered you. Don't you read what I say or are you expecting a different answer?. For the last time, I'm a moderate Independent. I look at all sides of an issue before I decide what I think is right. I am especially interested in the long term effects of what congress does,especially the delegates who seem to spend all their time running for the next time. I believe in term limits, always have. I have known Joe Biden for years, as Al used to work with him at new Castle County. I consider him a friend but that doesn't mean I automatically agree with all of his politics. Like I said, there are things I can't, and don't talk about. On the forum, for the sake of discussion I may throw out an apparent opposing idea because it often gets people to expand on their knowledge basis or consider another way of looking at things. I'm not a liberal but i am very flexible. When I vote, I never pull the Party lever. I always consider the individual and usually it's a real mixed bag by the time I'm done. I really do read what you post on here and I often find something I agree with, or at least partly. BUT they better have their facts straight. I do not like opinions paraded as fact. Have an opinion, but let it be known that it is opinion.
Steve, why do you think Lincoln had a hand in writing the constitution? He wasn't born until 1809. ;D The rest I agree with. I'm a great believer in states rights as long as it doesn't restrict a particular group or hold back natural progress.
I believe Steve might be referring to Benjamin Lincoln, then Secretary of War.
I believe Steve put Lincoln's name in his post without differentiating which Lincoln, as bait to see if anyone would respond to it.
I believe I am posting in Politics when I said I wouldn't!
Sheeeeeeeesh!
Larryj
Why hell Larry, we need a good "Doc" here probably more often than one is needed elsewhere. Stand by for casualties. :)
Sorry, Jarhead, I was only trained to patch up bodies and give unnecessary immunizations to MP's who harassed me when I was out and about in the village. That only happened once. After that, no problemo, senor! But that's another story........
I wasn't trained to be a pychoanalyst, well, maybe the psyco part, but not the analyst.
Larryj
Quote from: redcliffsw on July 20, 2011, 05:55:39 AM
Diane, if you are not a liberal, then what do you claim to be? You appear to be very liberal to me.
Well that's your problem! I've spoken with Diane before and she has described herself to me as a moderate liberal. And I don't have any reason not to believe her. I am the wife of a teacher. I don't like most unions, and I HATE NCLB. I don't belong to ANY political party. I'm pro life, and more than ready for a new President. And I know that not everybody is going to agree with me. I consider myself Conservative. Good enough for you? Actually, I don't really care, because it's not up to you to decide.
Lisa
sorry folks, just getting tired of the few to argue just for the sake of arguing....
Diane, you can describe yourself as a "moderate independent" all you like, however you're a liberal to me.
Lincoln ignored the Constitution - like the liberals do nowadays. How much priority do you want "particular groups" to have?
Why don't you support "individual rights" instead of particular groups? Natural progress? Since when have you started supporting
natural progress without gov't programs, rules, and money? You say you are a "great believer" in states rights but you really
don't support states rights. Looks to me like you represent liberalism quite well.
Sorry to interupt, Steve. Go ahead.....
You are welcome to your opinion, just as I am. I just don't know why labels are so important to you. Real Americans don't need labels IMHO. When I first joined the forum, four years ago, one of the first things that one of you demanded of me was to know my religion. Back here that is considered invasive and very rude. Why does it matter? Besides, I haven't burned a witch in years!
How would you feel if someone called you an ignorant hillbilly and then said you represent one very well? That's very insensitive, rude and probably isn't true, but considering how you try to misrepresent me, shall I try rude for a change? Being polite sure isn't working to my benefit. You can't possibly get a true picture of me and who I really am from an occasional post on a forum. I am very comfortable with who I am as a person. I am extremely fair, honest and incorruptible. Who would you rather have as a friend, a cheating dishonest conservative or an honest moderate? ...and no, I don't mean conservatives are crooks, that was just an example.
(Some of my best friends are very conservative ;))
States rights should never manipulate any legal group so they can't vote or participate in things than can affect them personally. No, it should not be just land owners who get to vote. That IS a form of individual rights.
Gotta go make a big fruit salad for a meeting tonight. Bye.
Larry, Steve was right, I did forget about B. Lincoln, I'd have been wrong anyway, only remembered Knox. :D
Quote from: larryJ on July 20, 2011, 09:21:44 AM
I believe Steve might be referring to Benjamin Lincoln, then Secretary of War.
I believe Steve put Lincoln's name in his post without differentiating which Lincoln, as bait to see if anyone would respond to it.
I believe I am posting in Politics when I said I wouldn't!
Sheeeeeeeesh!
Larryj
True he had his hands all in it but i wasn't referring to that lincoln. Abe Lincoln is also considered today as a framer of the constitution today. He added 13, 14, 15th amendment and violated the 1st, 9th, 10th, and Several articles to achieve that. He committed treasonous acts to achieve those amendments.
You can look at it like this, he declared war on a sovereign nation to invade not defend. OR you can look at it like he used the Nations military against American Citizens. Either way, he committed treason. All through the war, he violated 1st amendment rights of the press, jailed people for speaking out, committed war atrocities through his generals AKA Sherman. He was never known for being the great emancipator til it benefited him in the homeland propaganda he issued forth. IN FACT he tried his damndest to get an amendment that enshrined slavery forever but he was soundly defeated every time.
SO yeah Lincoln was not the "Honest Abe" everyone today makes him out to be.
Yes Sir. No wonder it's hard to have any faith in the Republican party. You've just covered much of the basis of their history in that short paragraph.
As for the Democrats, they've changed over the years for the worse. Today, most Democrats can worship Lincoln too, and
they do.
Red it would seem that todays parties have shifted . The Libertarians are the Republicans of the 60s and the repubs are the democrats . Then there is the democrat party that has shifted so far left that they could be considered the American Communist Party of the 60s . Ther ACP had over a million voters in the early part of the last century. They have made quite a come back .
I don't like Ron Paul, I wish there was a better Libertarian candidate I could vote for .
That is exactly why I'm a moderate Independent. The party planks are so different from 50 years ago, it's easier for me to follow an individual candidate and not pay much attention to the party line. It all changes whenever they are elected anyway. In a year's time the president is so managed, sheltered, advised and pushed around by security and the professional deal makers, it's hard to know what anyone really thinks.
Humpy, I see what you're saying. However, the Republican Party was started wrong and there's no evidence that
it has ever "reformed" or "changed". How can anyone say that the Republican Party stands with the founding fathers or the Constitution? Today, the Republican Party remains supportive of social progress throughout the world.