Elk County Forum

There was an article from the NYT 7/18/11 about grocrery stores are now doing what I call the "the fuzzy math, plus coaxing you into to buying more than you planned" strategy.

I went to my local one, and a 12 oz bag of macaroni (example) was $1.19.  Then, next to it was a 24 oz for $2.50 or 3/$3.79 Had I not been able to do math in my head, or had a calculator I would have spent MORE money.  Most people don't like they grocery shopping, as they have to do it right after work. 
Those that can go at off times, may not have the stock, or the checkers availabe.

Since I and most people know the value of a good deal (only if it can be used up in time or on a regular basis), are shocked that a can of soup which used to be 65 ¢ is now almost $1.80! 
I try to 'can' or freeze most of my own stuff, if I can find them.  And only stock up on things I go through on a monthly basis.

I used to have a rule of thumb: that any more than .25¢ a roll for the good non-scratch toilet paper was okay for me.
I have now had to up my thumb to .30¢.

I say I have upped my game/standards, now it's time for the grocery stores to up theirs! ;D

Other than raising your own, of which most people don't have the facilities to grow, go to a farmer's market....how do you manage this rising cost in products?  (I hate coupons, by the way)

ready to save more

Ready, you might hate coupons but they are the fastest, easiest way to save huge amounts of money.  I regularly save at least 30% on my food bill by using them and combining them with in-store sales.  I have had some huge savings, stacking the coupons on the store sale and having multiples of the same coupon.  If you can't find it in yourself to use them, then utilize places like Sam's and Cosco.  If you have a Foodsaver system, you can buy in bulk and then separate it into usable portions and freeze what you're not going to use immediately.  For things that you need but don't want a huge heaping amount of, have a friend go with you and split the amount (and the cost, which helps).  I used to have a couple of friends that would go with me into Wichita and we'd split not only the costs but also the fun of having a day out. 

Thank you for that Cat, however....I am not a member of Sam's, and it is 1 1/2 hour drive to save...$30?

The gas alone doesn't cover that.
And I swear, if you are in line in front of me and have coupons, which my store won't accept on-line ones, the you have to either decide to either pay for the thing, send it back, the salesperson won't substract and then perhaps a vision card won't cover it....ah lawdy lawdy!.......I will say something! especially if it is during rush hour.  However politely and calm AS I CAN BE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D

Living in a smal town with no time to take 3 hours drive, plus the 1 hour shopping in a town that is too urbanized to my taste..I guess I am just going to have to bit the bullet.
Is there a drink that goes with bullets?  and please don't say :  Ammo-retto!    :D
ready

LOL... ;D...I would say that Sam's is your best bet then.  Take a friend who already is a member of Sam's (remember, helps with costs, too...They can pitch in on the cost of the gas to get there, too...Makes it more economical for BOTH of you...Just make sure you have the cash on you to cover the costs at Sam's, as you won't be able to write a check), make a day of it and make sure you have a cooler or two with you so that you can take your perishables home safely.  I had a lot of fun days spent in that manner.   ;D ;D
 

Question:

What are folks paying for milk and eggs?

Right now, our new baby Wal-Mart and Dollar General are having a milk price war, DG selling Hiland for $2.00 a gallon, and Wal-Mart selling there house label for same price.  And in Siloam Springs (just south of us) Aldi and Wal-Mart have been having an on and off price war on eggs, with them being as low as $.48 a dozen recently.

QuoteTake a friend

Oh cat! ::)  you have so many assumptions about my life!   lol
you lost me at the above quote, however thank you for trying.

Flint:  you are kidding?  .48 a dozen????   are they fresh?   or are they forced produced.
You see, I am against that sort of thing.
What I have seen is a war between the stores (well we have the store, the dollar store and know Duckworths' competing in the food industry.  And alot of it is seconds...if you have ever worked in a cannery...of which I did.

Why even have wars on food?  Why to the grocery's (well the Corporate bigwigs) dictate the price.  Make the markup only 10¢ not 200% margin?

I wish for you pay me in food and I will fix your whatever....I do Believe in that, athough I have read Ayn Rand's books, I stop at some things.

I am living paycheck to paycheck, with a free and clear  owned home, insurance, car and cats.
I can have money to pay for food, yet....what I normally purchase has just doubled.
I am finding that 'if you need it bad enough, you will pay for it.

Because people are using coupons, sorry Cat...the store has to compensate the difference between the discount price and the price they get refunded...so, they up the price 2¢ to break even. 
Well that is coming out of my pocket!

I just don't get it.  In the philosophy of the Chinese vs. the Filipinos: 
Filipinos:  If I charge you $1 for an item that cost me .30   you may not come back, but you will buy it and I will have a sale.
Chinese:  If I charge you .40 I make a profit, and you will continually come back.

The only difference in this scenario is that the 'overhead' (out of their control...ie, gas, corporate orders, etc) are causing the prices to increase.
God help the Howard grocery store for the delivery charges, taxes, etc. I really don't know how people make it to eat nowadys.
Any suggestions will help.
ready

If I need eggs, I pay $1.00 doz. from a person that has free range chicken...and they are brown!!!!!!

Quote from: readyaimduck on July 18, 2011, 07:29:08 PM
If I need eggs, I pay $1.00 doz. from a person that has free range chicken...and they are brown!!!!!!

With the price of feed that 1.00 is now 2.25   Free range is ok, but they need that extra too.  Wintertime though they ahve to be fed and that goes to the cost of the eggs.  And i am dreading this winter with feed going up to 18 dollars a hundred pounds.

As far as buying groceries, I go once a month to wichita to aldis, and then over to dillons in andover, and if i hve time to walmarts to pick up whatever is on sale.  And yes prices have doubled and you get 1/3 less.   Shoot, its worth the trip to go buy tuna at aldis. They still have tuna for .56 a can.  Can't get it for that price anywhere around here.   I'm going to start buying it by the box. OHh and their fish filets are good. 2.89 a box of 10.  I just pop them into the toaster oven cook for 10 min on one side flip and cook another 10 and its ready for my fish sandwich.   I got a awesome deal over at G&W in Eureka last month on catfish.  5lbs for 7 dollars.  Bought 10 pounds and am eating that the same way. Put in the toaster oven and cook til done then either on bread or i just dip em in tarter sauce.

You have to do some shopping around to find the chicken leg quarters. Most of the time i can get them for .59 a pound.  Now that i have a freezer, next time they go on sale like that i'm buying 100 pounds.

I finally broke down and bought a sams card for my farm and i can get 25lbs bread flour for 8 dollars and regular biscuit flour for 7 a 25lb bag.  Yeast and baking powder and soda all much cheaper.  buy them by the pound.  Also Peanut butter. saw it for 8 dollars for 6 pounds.  SO you gotta shop wisely in sams. Otherwise you can spend more than you need to.  I found sugar cheapest at aldis. I think it was around .60 a pound.  Everyone else is .65 a pound

where exactly is Aldis?

I also shop at Aldi's, the one on Maize Road (just before 13th street when headed N. on Maize rd.).  I love their German chocolate and also their fresh produce that is just as good as the produce in Dillons.  I find their meat prices are about the same as Dillons on what I usually buy.  Their bread prices are much lower than Dillons, though, and their canned goods are just as good as Dillons any day (especially the canned veggies).  I have found the spices at Aldi's to be much cheaper than Dillons...Just make sure to bring cash, as they won't take your check...And make sure you bring your own bags to bag your groceries (or use a few boxes from there, that you pick off the shelf) or else you end up buying their sacks for a nickel apiece.

Ready, getting the membership to Sam's pays for itself in the long run, when you're staying stocked up on your staples.  I make no presumptions on knowing what your life is...If I still lived there, I'd take you myself.  Even if you're traveling there by yourself, it can be a fun day of just getting out of the house.  :D

There are Aldi's stores on 21st street/Woodlawn and the south end of Seneca, too...

There is also an Aldis' in Bartlesville, just south of the Washington Mall on the right hand side, just beyond Braums.

I've been to that Aldi's...It's a nice one.  :D

One of the services provided by our Family Market in Howard is the ability to purchase bulk canned goods for 10 percent over what it costs Julie. I've bought diced tomatoes and kidney beans this way, as I use those two things for a lot of recipes. I can't recall now if she extends that offer to dry goods or canned meat products, but it's easy enough to find out.

QuoteReady, getting the membership to Sam's

Thank you six for that info, as wellas to steve and Cat.
However, isn't getting a membership to Sams, is that you have to have an exempt status?
Perhaps I was misinformed?

east side of wichita is nicer store. I find they are quite more organized and helpful.  the sacks are 10 cents now.  You can get a frozen food bag for a buck to keep your foods frozen but i'm starting to take a cooler to put frozen goods in.  I go to Dillons because youc an't get some things at aldis.  I like the ethnic selectiion at dillons. Its far better than any other store i've found.  Plus Dillons does a buy one get one free on meats a lot of the time. Found roasts that way and racked up on savings.  THey also tend to have better prices on ground beef.  Aldi fresh meats are high high high!  The frozen preprocessed meats aren't as high but i don't eat preprocessed food if i can help it.  In fact i don't think i've ever bought anything from the frozen meat section except my fish.  Thats it.  

IF you like salmon, Dillons is the ONLY Place to go. They fly it in fresh twice a week. And when i mean fresh its still flipping around when it gets here. Thats the only way i'll buy it.  THey also bring in things like fresh oysters when in season too, 2 x a week.

Call your local dillons to find out when they recieve their fresh seafood and fish orders.

Salmon is one thing i'll save a few bucks up from time to time just so i can buy it.  I guess a guilty pleasure.

If you want meat deals, you might look at G&W over here in eureka. They have special prices on meat packages to put in your freezer.

Indy...that is good to know, as I would prefer canned stock items.  
Do I need to set up a deal, or is this a normal practice?

Quote from: readyaimduck on July 18, 2011, 08:05:51 PM
Thank you six for that info, as wellas to steve and Cat.
However, isn't getting a membership to Sams, is that you have to have an exempt status?
Perhaps I was misinformed?

No you just have to be a business or a college student. Not hard to do.  I think they have individual plans. Go to samsclub.com and read up on the accounts they offer.

Steve.....Great information!

ready out and for bed, however...
since I have to go to Whicheverita to do shopping   :(
guess, I had better read up, show up and bring my own bags....(do the one's under my eyes count????   )

Thnak you all for those suggestions...I may just alter my shopping days!! 
I also think Howard needs some business!

ready....<<<<yawning      :o

Unless Sam's has changed their policy in the last couple of months, they take personal checks. Aldi's in B-ville will not take checks. Another good store is Save-a-Lot in Coffeyville. Check out the Big Lot's stores too for bargains. That is where ol Sarge buys sardines and smoked herring but of coarse if he was a good fisherman like me he wouldn't be buying ol stink'n canned fish.
Ready, do you can meats ? Last few hogs and a side of beef we butchered I pressure cooked a bunch of the meat. Cubed it up, put in qt jars and pressure cooked for 90 minutes. Can my broth too. My wife loves it that way. Dump a qt of meat---a qt of broth--bring to boil---dump in noodles and 20 minutes later I'm hogging down.

Jar, you're correct...Sam's takes checks, if you are a member there.  If you're not, then you have to take cash along to give the person with you who does have a membership there.  The Advantage membership is the lowest cost level and is available to anyone.  I also go to Big Lots but have found that their prices can actually be higher on quite a number of things.  It's like anywhere else...You have to know what it is you're buying and where you can get it cheaper.  I don't can my meats, preferring to freeze them.  However, I do quite a lot of pressure cooking of my meats.  I can take the toughest cut of meat and make it fall off the bone tender. 

Cat,
I wish you had told me this sooner. My kids always say for me to include their groceries with mine and ME write the check for all----OK, that's a big fat lie.
I have noticed that sometimes at Big Lots the stuff is outdated. Big bag of pretzels marked way down but outdated. I don't care though. Throw them puppies in the freezer and they last a lot longer.
Try pressure cooking/canning some meat. You won't regret it. Looks like C-ration meat but very good. Plus if the electricity goes off I don't have to worry about a freezer. Just lock my bunker/ cellar to keep ol Sarge out and I'm good to go.

Jar, canning is the last unexplored frontier for me!  I used to help my mom can tomatoes, cukes, green beans, watermelon pickles, etc.  I once went and figured up what it would cost for me to get into canning and then went to the store and figured up how many cans of canned veggies, etc., that would buy and came to the conclusion that it was more cost effective, for me, to just buy it when it goes on sale at the store.  If I could find someone that was getting rid of all of their jars, lids, the pressure cooker, the hot water bath pot, etc., and just wanted rid of them or was willing to take a low price for them, then maybe I'd be more interested in the canning thing.  I would like to learn how to can again, though, just to be able to say that I'd done it! lol

No doubt that canning ones own food can be more expensive than buying it a lot of the time. I canned more pickled beets this afternoon. The copious amounts of cold beer it took to get the job done I roughly figure I have  $47 dollars a quart in the beets----but I was gonna drink them cold beers weather I canned or not !! ;) What I like about canning is I know what's in my jars. Aint nothing better than home canned green beans cooked with bacon in them. Jars are usually easy to get. So many people with cellars with jars and if you aint afraid to stand knee deep in nasty water to get them---they are there for the taking(by permission of coarse). Pressure cookers can be bought for a song at auctions and I use them to hot bath stuff in too if I'm too lazy to go out in the fur shed to get the water bath pot. Once people find out you still can you will be surprised at all the jars and rings people will give you just to get rid of them. I had another pressure cooker gave to me a couple months ago but this beast looks like the USS Hunley and I'm about half arsed scared to use it. I plan on selling it to ol Sarge--cheap.

I got a pressure cooker for 10.00.  You don't have to pay top dollar for a shiny new one. 
Jars go on sale usually around this time of year, guess dolllar store is the cheapest.  The thing about the cost is did you figure the initial cost in the total savings over 20 years.  Thats where you find that it's cheaper than buying.

  I have never pressure cooked meat.  Do you add anything to it?  That reminds me of the 'real' mincemeat mom had canned for our pies.  I may have to try it, but will need a few pointers.
I, too have canned for years and it does come in handy if you are snowed in and can't get to the store, or when the electricity goes out like it did in 2007.
Cat, I used all my jars from when I was a kid, until they just got plain worn out.  Then a friend gave me 30 qt jars for $1.00, so am back into business. 
The pressure cooker I don't always use...steralize the jars in the microwave.  The only expense is :  jar flats, time, and expense of the beer (I agree with that!)

And, I agree that I KNOW what is in my jars and I get a FULL quart, instead of 2/3 for the expense.

Quote from: readyaimduck on July 19, 2011, 05:27:38 AM
  I have never pressure cooked meat.  Do you add anything to it?  That reminds me of the 'real' mincemeat mom had canned for our pies.  I may have to try it, but will need a few pointers.

LOL Mincemeat isn't meat.  I think the only thing that might be considered meat is the suet. Its beef fat.  :)  But you can use vegetable suet to cut down on the fat content.  Alas though i won't be partaking of any mincemeat.  Tooo much sugar! :O

I think the thing about canning meat is to make damn sure you pressure cook it long enough, make sure that those  jars are completely sterile.  it would turn out bad if you got botulism.  Not enough acid to kill it.

I'll tell ya the best thing to use mason pint jars for is the Home made rheumatism medicine you make out in the barn.  :D

 ;D ;D ;D

The mincemeat I used to make contained beef as that was the way my mother made it and her mother made it.  The only fat in it was what was still on the meat.  No fat was added.

Sorry I had to leave the house before I could reply.
Yes, Wilma...dad would butcher the steer in the yard, and the head would be stripped and brought to the kitchen table for mom to scrape any thing from it.   Mincemeat most definetly had beef in it!

You know, I am spoiled. I don't like to buy much beef anywhere. It doesn't compare to ours that we get butchered. We had a hog done also, and we didn't have it cured. I love pork buger!! Can use it for anything and make our own sausage when we need it. As for eggs, we raise chickens. So we have eggs most of the time, unless the hens decide its to hot to work, and we don't get many. We free range our eggs, plus feed them. They are spoiled, too!!! We too sell them to some folks, and for a 1.00. We are not in the egg business to make money so it's better to share what extra we get. One of these days price will have to go up, when hubby yells at me about selling to cheap, but for now they stay at 1.00.

Quote from: Lookatmeknow!! on July 19, 2011, 11:43:02 AM
You know, I am spoiled. I don't like to buy much beef anywhere. It doesn't compare to ours that we get butchered. We had a hog done also, and we didn't have it cured. I love pork buger!! Can use it for anything and make our own sausage when we need it. As for eggs, we raise chickens. So we have eggs most of the time, unless the hens decide its to hot to work, and we don't get many. We free range our eggs, plus feed them. They are spoiled, too!!! We too sell them to some folks, and for a 1.00. We are not in the egg business to make money so it's better to share what extra we get. One of these days price will have to go up, when hubby yells at me about selling to cheap, but for now they stay at 1.00.

I am afraid it may not be too long before you go up on your egg prices.  You'll hve to feed those hens this winter, and they aren't giving any promising news on price of feed coming down.   Damn farmers got greedy and are selling it all to the ethanol plants to get that government welfare that subsidizes that price they are getting.    Sure wish we could buy from the farmers who grow food for foo d and not food for fuel

We are also spoiled by home grown beef. Every time hubby goes down the meat isle at Wal-Mart, he cringes. Fresh, it is not. Luckily our Sav-A-Lot has a pretty good meat department, but even there the prices have gotten so high!
Yep, my two boys were raised on steak and couldn't get enough of it! Used to put a HUGE smile on my dad's face.....he raised Herefords.
Lisa

You will find that the meat at the Family Market is very good.  My daughter won't buy certain things anywhere else.  Especially the chicken and hamburger.  She says the milk is cheaper there and I find that the eggs are very good.  Happy shopping in Howard when you get here.

That is where I grocery shopped yesterday. I did not buy meat or cold/frozen. I did not take an icechest and wasn't sure what I was going to do after that store.
I had been looking for 20 Mule Team Borax......I had been told it makes a nice flea repelant(sp) and altho I do have the dogs easier, this heat, and the dryness is just their cup of tea.
I know we all are bringing them in from our walk and yard, after all we are rural and critters beside dogs and cats wonder by.
Oh, I forgot I did get that at Cooksons, Cooksons, Batsons......sound alike, right................LOL
But at Cooksons is the only place I can find Carpet 409 that is close to me and I do like to use it when I or Sassy or Scooter  make a mess........I am the biggest messer..oh well.
I will be going back to Batsons monthly now...........I like Richard Claytors fresh meat and will continue to use his store, do not want him to go out of business.........and I can walk there and back, and hitch a ride if I ask. He will deliver Or Christine will....very nice thing.
I am afraid that things, like produce and anything is going to get where we will all bargain hunt and maybe even coop? Happy Shopping.

I cringe at the sight of the meat at Wal-Marts, too.  However, we mostly stay out of the grocery side of the store.  I do like looking at their produce but that is all I do.  On another thread I told about my visit to my favorite Wal-Mart Monday while in Derby for a doctor's appointment.  Even the items that I find at the East Kellogg store look better in the Derby store.  Wish it weren't so out of our way.  Most of our Wichita visits are in the northeast part of town.

There are already groups of people, mostly in larger cities, who coop together and order their produce and other grocery items in that manner.  I looked into it at one point...It wouldn't take much to get a coop started.

QuoteI cringe at the sight of the meat at Wal-Marts, too.

You should Wilma with all the chemicals (or at the possibility of sounding radical), 'other' stuff that they pump into the meats nowadys! 
Give me pure range beef any day....there definetly is a different, honest taste to it.

I am afraid this country is going to either:
1.  Kill us with the very foods we eat that are purchased in the stores;
2.  Charge us out the ying-yang for eating these deadly foods;.
3.  Which is another topic of Health Care - who you can see and not, depending on what you can afford;
4. Then pass a law to solve the cure, not the problem

If my thinking is not heat/beer/stress/or age related  :-X...no wonder so many people are trying to get back into 'home grown' practices that we all grew up with.

Don't even get me started on self indulged obesity! >:(

Quote from: Catwoman on July 20, 2011, 09:40:47 AM
There are already groups of people, mostly in larger cities, who coop together and order their produce and other grocery items in that manner.  I looked into it at one point...It wouldn't take much to get a coop started.

Could we get together and ask the folks who own the grocery to be our co-op? If they already sell some things in bulk, maybe together we could get an even better price! Plus it's good to shop local, if you can. I know that sometimes high prices won't let ya do that.
Lisa

Shoot lisa, i can buy 50 pounds of flour for 10 bucks.  Just go to the coop and buy a bag of red hard winter wheat.  Grind it yourself.  1. Flour is useless if ground and prepackaged as its minerals and vitamins disappear after grinding and during the grinding process. they use moterized machinery to grind it and that heat generated destroys a lot of the vitamins and minerals in the wheat. 2. You get the bran in the wheat when you grind it yourself.  3. you get fresh flour every time. Just store your wheat in containers. I put in 2 liter bottles if i have them and use dry ice to preserve the wheat berreis. 4. if you like wheatberry bread all you do is crack a cup of berries which is as it sounds, just cracking the berry and mix into your dough.  5. You can take 2 cups of berries and boiling water and pour into a thermos and leave on counter overnight. Next morning you have a hot cereal to eat! 

You can also get Dent corn from the coop.  Thats what they use to make cornmeal for your corn bread.  Currently its about7 dollars a 50lb bag.  2. you can soak whole kernel dent corn in lye and make hominy.  You can take that hominey and grind it into a meal and have grits.

You can also get flax, barley, and a host of other grains dirt cheap.  I love taking milo and wheat, oats, barley ect.... 12 grains and make bread out of. 

THe cost, a hell of a lot cheaper than buying it in the stores.   Bread flour aka Red hard winter wheat, sells for almost 9 buck per 25 pounds.  1 50 lb bag of wheat berries sells for 11.00 i think.  So 5.50 for 25 pounds of flour that is actually good for you.

Coop you say?  Animal feed??  You would eat Animal feed???  Theres no difference between the coop wheat and the wheat you get in the stores except for they run air over the top to blow the chaff off.  Heck all i do is take a air hose and blow the chaff off or i'll just grind the chaff up into the bread. It won't hurt ya one bit! 

Lots of ways to save money.  Hand grinders you can get on ebay for less than 50 bucks.  They will last ya a lifetime!

My homemade mincemeat still has meat in it. ::)

As much as I like homemade and organic, I do have a life away from home too. Can't do it all. We grind our own coffee and I can and freeze like crazy, but I also like to sleep. I'm not into making hominy. But I can get fresh stone ground corn meal from the mill. I can get fresh ground flour from the mill in Flourtown PA. It's a bit of trek up there but we make a day of it and go Amish shopping while we're there. I'm getting ready to make a wheat berry/ blueberry salad tomorrow.

Quote from: Diane Amberg on July 21, 2011, 11:45:08 AM
As much as I like homemade and organic, I do have a life away from home too. Can't do it all. We grind our own coffee and I can and freeze like crazy, but I also like to sleep. I'm not into making hominy. But I can get fresh stone ground corn meal from the mill. I can get fresh ground flour from the mill in Flourtown PA. It's a bit of trek up there but we make a day of it and go Amish shopping while we're there. I'm getting ready to make a wheat berry/ blueberry salad tomorrow.

You know it doesn't take long to grind 3 cups of flour for a recipe.  Maybe 2 or 3 min. 

Nah, it's the grain storage and the lugging and totin' not the grinding.

I hear you Diane.   
You did bring up a good point:
I buy in bulk from the Mennonites in this area.  It's already packaged, home grown, natural, and I think that getting it from them just helps them and me - a win-win situation.
  I would love to go to a barter system (of which I do for things)....however, money does help to exchange goods for other goods that may not be bartered.
That's why I started this thread...I am tired of the middle man taking more than his share.

The more ideas to help us all help ourselves without dependency on the greedy others, would be grateful.
Unfortunately...we are getting older and not able to hoe that garden and till that soil. 
That's why I think Cattle bunk(without the bars) is a good 'garden' for a limited space.  No bending over and holes in the bottom for drainage with a catch tray for recycle.
ready

 

Quote from: readyaimduck on July 21, 2011, 06:57:09 PM
I hear you Diane.   
You did bring up a good point:
I buy in bulk from the Mennonites in this area.  It's already packaged, home grown, natural, and I think that getting it from them just helps them and me - a win-win situation.
  I would love to go to a barter system (of which I do for things)....however, money does help to exchange goods for other goods that may not be bartered.
That's why I started this thread...I am tired of the middle man taking more than his share.

The more ideas to help us all help ourselves without dependency on the greedy others, would be grateful.
Unfortunately...we are getting older and not able to hoe that garden and till that soil. 
That's why I think Cattle bunk(without the bars) is a good 'garden' for a limited space.  No bending over and holes in the bottom for drainage with a catch tray for recycle.
ready

 

Well i did the garden and the hoing and the work, and the heat just killed it.  Only have a few okra plants and 1 tomato plant if it ever starts putting on tomatos.  Oh and a few pepper plants. I have cucumber plant but i am afraid that this heat is going to make them so bitter i can't eat them

True:  nature can be a killer/deterant, no matter how you nurture.
ready

The rabbitts ate my beans, the tomato plants went into shock and gave me 3 tomatoes..and the peppers were earten also.

It's not exactly bulk shopping, but it is sharing the costs:

http://www.prairielandfood.com/ (http://www.prairielandfood.com/)

Ruth Watts is in charge of the Howard area.

Quote from: readyaimduck on July 21, 2011, 07:33:48 PM
The rabbitts ate my beans, the tomato plants went into shock and gave me 3 tomatoes..and the peppers were earten also.

Those must ahve been the same rabbits that ate my beans. :|  I was sooooo looking forward to dilly beans this year.

Another thing, like the one Debbie/Mom listed, is Angel Food Ministries.  If you go online, you can find out if they're in your area.  You pay one base rate and get a pre-determined amount of food for that price.  No volunteering needed.  You will receive some religious literature, I believe, in the box you bring to pick up the foods but, for the extremely low price on the food, a little literature can be ignored.

HOLY cow those are high prices!  

Also very very diabetic and heart unfriendly!  

Quote from: Catwoman on July 21, 2011, 08:34:34 PM
Another thing, like the one Debbie/Mom listed, is Angel Food Ministries.  If you go online, you can find out if they're in your area.  You pay one base rate and get a pre-determined amount of food for that price.  No volunteering needed.  You will receive some religious literature, I believe, in the box you bring to pick up the foods but, for the extremely low price on the food, a little literature can be ignored.

Angelfood is very reasonable but you ahve to watch the food.  Very heart unfriendly.  Diabetic unfriendly if you don't watch it.   I haven't checked lately to see if they added friendly options.  I suggested it a couple years ago that they add diabetic and heart foods.

That volenterring requirement is very annoying. IF i am paying those prices i had better not have to volenteer.  I can get the groceries cheaper int he grocery store if i look for sales.

I have to apologize...It has been a number of years since I last went onto their site...Man, have the prices jumped UP.  I can't believe what they're charging...But, they have added a great deal of fresh produce, where there used to be none, which is a good thing.  They have also added a package put together just for kiddos...But again, the price is exhorbitant, when you stop to consider that, for the same items, you can go to Dillons, find it on sale and spend far less than what they are charging.

Again, my apologies...I had no idea that Angel Food Ministries had changed this radically. 

Quote from: Catwoman on July 21, 2011, 09:16:17 PM
I have to apologize...It has been a number of years since I last went onto their site...Man, have the prices jumped UP.  I can't believe what they're charging...But, they have added a great deal of fresh produce, where there used to be none, which is a good thing.  They have also added a package put together just for kiddos...But again, the price is exhorbitant, when you stop to consider that, for the same items, you can go to Dillons, find it on sale and spend far less than what they are charging.

Again, my apologies...I had no idea that Angel Food Ministries had changed this radically. 

I don't know that angelfood is that high i was talking bout prarieland

Heres angelfoods....

http://www.angelfoodministries.com/menus/menu_2011-07_en.asp?

THey have varioius menus.  35.00 for this one.

Sigh their special meals for seniors though, their not very good.  :(  THey are highly processed foods.

Their bread of life box probably is a decent deal.  The only main problem i had with their food was that it is super high in sugar and salt.

Steve you could still get green beans if you replant right away.

Quote from: Diane Amberg on July 21, 2011, 09:44:54 PM
Steve you could still get green beans if you replant right away.

Diane, at the heat levels right now i doubt they would grow.  The only bean seed i have right now is kentucky wonders and they take forever to produce.  They put all their energy in vining.  Uhmmm i'm going to try and plant some topcrop maybe next month when i get my check.  I have broccoli and rhubarb planted in here in cups to set out when temps start coming down.  next month i'll start cabbage and hope it will head up before winter.  I'll replant cukes too.  Tomatos are a loss :(  I so wish i could get fresh ones. :(


IF i had known last frost was going to be in early april this year i would have set out sooner. 

I did set out a single tomato plant, and have gotten a couple of tomatoes. But I have decided that the water required to keep it going is not worth the zero tomatoes in the near future. Those two tomatoes surely did taste good though!  ;) I understand that Howard is now under a water restriction watch as are many surrounding towns. I sure do wish we could get some rain, 1 1/2 inches this year since the spring. I just cannot believe it.  :-\ :-\

Quote from: sixdogsmom on July 21, 2011, 10:19:09 PM
I did set out a single tomato plant, and have gotten a couple of tomatoes. But I have decided that the water required to keep it going is not worth the zero tomatoes in the near future. Those two tomatoes surely did taste good though!  ;) I understand that Howard is now under a water restriction watch as are many surrounding towns. I sure do wish we could get some rain, 1 1/2 inches this year since the spring. I just cannot believe it.  :-\ :-\

Wwell i don't have a sprinkler.  So i hand water mine with my water wand.  ITs like a showerhead on a stick.  I directly water each one til the ground is saturated in its area.   RIght now i'm killing johnson grass.  The heat is good for that at least.  Getting it under control i think.  Pain in the arse! I also killed most of those damn sticker plants in the feed area.  figure i'll burn them suckers here when the rest die.  Its isolated so no fear of fire getting away from it.

Almost got my mower fixed so i can mow.  Thats been the biggest pain for me this month.  had to order parts and then it got too hot to work on it, and have been working on it in the early mornings to avoid the heat. I got it back together and have to see if the belts are right. 

THen attach the deck and get it started.

That's why I think Cattle bunk(without the bars) is a good 'garden' for a limited space.  No bending over and holes in the bottom for drainage with a catch tray for recycle.

what is this? how much room does it take up?. is this what I call a creepfeeder when ranchers feed extra to calves and keep mama's out?
I am getting where I have trouble bending over and then standing up again. Aint a bit pretty!

My yellow cherry tomatoes are just starting to come on.  I've been nibbling on them as I water every morning.  My red grape tomatoes aren't producing...All they're doing is surviving the heat at this point but I expect them to start producing as soon as the heat wave breaks a bit.  This was a great year for asparagus, though...And since I've let them just grow, instead of cutting them, I have the nicest hedge.  :D

Not a creep feeder, Judy....more like a horizontally halved metal barrel on legs.  I've even gone so far as to take an old metal chicken feeder tray to start my veggies in.
Anything that is at least 2' deep and I can walk around it, like a small water tank for the cows.

Shoot, perhaps an old toilet with dirt in the bowl for a tomato plant!!!????????  ;D
ready

All of my tomatoes are container plants.  It is the most efficient manner to garden, when it comes to tomatoes, that I've ever found.

I like that old toilet idea. Put some screen across the bottom so the dirt doesn't fall out and set it as garden sculpture out in the beans. Now that's cute! I have a big pot up on my deck with a grape tom and it's surrounded by a tall cage. I can just step out and snack. Sudden the yellow squash have come on and we're all trying to given them to each other. Had our first mess of green beans last night.Yummy.The heat is bothering the cukes but they are trying. This heat,especially today, may shut down, the tomato blooms for while. No stink bugs yet though.  I guess this is really off the subject. Sorry. Steve, I have three of those water wands. Love'em.

Nothing says redneck more than a toilet with flowers on the front lawn!

Out back in the beans! Not in the front yard! ;D ;D ;D We still have people downstate who have flower gardens in old tractor tires, in the front yard.

QuoteNothing says redneck more than a toilet with flowers on the front lawn

There's GOT to be a saying in that somewhere ::)....something about 'not a pot to peas in'.... ;D
I need more coffee, or perhaps a beer?? 

My girls just brought in some cherry tomatos from the garden here at the daycare. We had some watermelon setting on, but other than that, not much activity in out there. With a water watch, don't feel I should use the water to water the garden that much. Just in case!!

Quote from: Lookatmeknow!! on July 22, 2011, 12:09:54 PM
My girls just brought in some cherry tomatos from the garden here at the daycare. We had some watermelon setting on, but other than that, not much activity in out there. With a water watch, don't feel I should use the water to water the garden that much. Just in case!!

???  IF its your garden, its your food supply and damn the water watch. IF your food is going to die, then water it.

Well, I do see where your coming from, but at the same time it's so hot that only time I am here that it is best is at 6 in the morning and I do that everyother day.

Quote from: Lookatmeknow!! on July 22, 2011, 12:43:37 PM
Well, I do see where your coming from, but at the same time it's so hot that only time I am here that it is best is at 6 in the morning and I do that everyother day.

Hopefully this fall i can get enough cash up i'm buying some misters and building it for next year.   You can set up a misting system that fogs the plants for 7 seconds every 5 minutes.  You can set it up for every 10 or 20 min o rwhatever you want.  But...7 sec every 5 min will keep the plants at the right moisture level.   IT will also keep your waterbill down.  IF i remember right 10 misters will use 1 gallon of water in 7 seconds.  I think....  So that would be 12 gallons of water a hour.  times 4 - 8 hours a day, if at 8 hours a day thats 2880 gallons a month.  WHereas if you water with a sprinkler for an hour you'll use something like 30 -40 gallons of water, if not more and 30% of it will be lost to evaporation before it hits the ground and you'll more than likely be watering more than a hour at that rate.  So for the same amount of water usage you get better results.  Plants also intake water better if its a fog or mist than they do from the roots.  They take it in through the hairlike fibers along the stalks. 

You can also utilize drip irrigation. It uses less water and delivers it directly to the plant roots instead of wasting it on soil that has no plant in it.

Shoot, perhaps an old toilet with dirt in the bowl for a tomato plant!!!?? 
ready

Can't you just hear the neighbors if I did that. I have a small patio.........government apartment with the rights to plant as much as I can. I do use a cream separator for a planter and lots of rusty (like me!) things to plant in.
At times until the plants start producing it all looks junky.

Neighbors haven't said anything....only ones who see it are the people who walk by to dumpster and visitors so I just leave it along.
But, I will pass on the toilet, would probably have to kick some kids out! LOL. I have thought of bath tubs. they make dandy ones for someone else.
I do miss my large garden, and yard and the canning I use to do. Sweetest sound in the summer is the PING! of the jars and then the unsnap on them when you open in winter. Thank goodness for Vlasic....they make a bread and butter pickle like I use to

Judy,
If you miss canning so much you should have slipped over to my neighborhood this afternoon. Just got done canning 12 pints of salsa and 6 quarts of mater juice--------------and no the tomatoes are not from my sick garden. Brenda has giant tomatoes and quite a few of them and because she loves her Daddy so much she shares with me------it's either share or I will beat her like a step child !!!
My shop has a window a/c but it is still hot out there when you're boiling jars and such. It is not canning but do you miss the clean-up ? If so---come on over . ;D

ronnie, when I can't pick up a rock without dropping it....and what I do to food and important stuff that can break, I am not safe to let out in the world.
I love cuddling baby's and animals, etc. but you dare not place one in my arms.unless I am sitting down and then my arms cramp and just won't do it.
I had to get rid of my canner and jars, etc. 3 rooms and not much storage just doesn't do well . 

One reason I walk so much. Find if I don't walk a bit each day, my legs refuse to walk.
My neighbor across alley east brought me a few green tomato's last week and the first one actually tasted like an honest to goodness tomato...not gassed and or hand painted ones.
Oh, I don't suppose Brenda (Or you! Hint hint) would share with one who is not family.
sigh.thought so.
ronnie you are suppose to clean up as you go. not let it all pile up. I could do k-p if I can sit and wash dishes not stand.. I like my memories........cheaper.

Before Newark built their reservoir a few years ago we had some terrible droughts and had severe water restrictions.We could always water our veggies but had to do it by bucket, not by any other means.Now we are never restricted but we have a drip irrigation system that Al sets up that has the little water ports just at the plants. no waste I also have those bottle spikes that go on a soda bottle for my big pots. It got up to 102 here today. People were dropping like flies. That was a record for this date here.

In a pinch if it isn't a big garden you could save your dish water and even your bath water. If you shower put the plug in and then bucket it to the plant. You might only get them a drop or two, but will make a difference in the long run. Any cooking water works too Or melted ice or tea or coffee you might throw out. Just plan on recycling.

Quotesave your dish water

Just keep an eye for the baby.... ;D

And the silverware!  :D :D

nah...who needs 'em. all
..a fork for the can beans and corn (then drink the juice after), the knife for the sausage and a spoon for that runny stuff that was solid at one time.
Just wipe off and put OUTSIDE of the bathtub.... ;D

ok...tmi   ;D

six...silverware is highly overated!
ready

Quote from readyaimduck:
I have never pressure cooked meat.  Do you add anything to it?

Ready, I forgot to answer you. Fill the jars with cubed or ground meat. Leave some head space. DO NOT add any liquid. It will make it's own. I do add 1 t salt per pint, just for a preservative plus I like salt. Pints pressure cook for 75 minutes---quarts for 90 minutes at 10-11 lbs of pressure.
Ol Sarge and me both like canned carp. Filet them, cool overnight to stiffen the filets---cut out mud vein and all red colored meat--pack in pint jars---one teaspoon salt and a dollop of Catalina dressing. the dressing has vinegar that helps dissolve those "Y" bones. pressure cook for 90 minutes at 15 lbs. After they are cooled get a tube of saltine crackers and slather them with the carp. Good eating !!

thank you steve.  I have some meat given to me in exchange for a job I did, and I can't do a whole roast. 
I will try this...and if I do, I will let all of you know, then in 3 weeks, if I don't respond...then I guess I didn't follow directions...of which I do., just hope yours are good!    ;)
ready

Quotetube of saltine crackers and slather them with the carp. Good eating !!

sounds like a foie de gras only 'different'.  Otherwise, yes I understand the concept.

Red wine? fish is for white...so what is the protcal?

I would say:  whole wheat crackers.
ready

Steve ? I aint Steve. Steve is my older brother---and I aint talking about the Steve that kisses goats  :D :D

Quote from: Judy Harder on July 22, 2011, 07:36:41 PM
In a pinch if it isn't a big garden you could save your dish water and even your bath water. If you shower put the plug in and then bucket it to the plant. You might only get them a drop or two, but will make a difference in the long run. Any cooking water works too Or melted ice or tea or coffee you might throw out. Just plan on recycling.

I use greywater to water all the time. No pinch. In fact it actually helps keep the bugs down cause soap will kill them.  Just pipe it out to the garden insted of into your sewer or septic tank.

The only thing i put on septic is the toilet.  The rest can be used again to water plants. AND you can pipe it to a couple barrels and water from there.

oh hell jug...er jarhead...my apologies to both you and to steve.

My hubby was a dedicated fisherman, and I used to make a dough bait this time of year to catch carp. We would clean them and freeze as a whole fish. I would thaw enough to fill a small pressure pan and cook until the bones were soft. This is prime catfood, and my kitty absolutely adored it! And we had the fun of catching these big guys, and thinning out the population as well.

Quote from: readyaimduck on July 22, 2011, 09:32:53 PM
oh hell jug...er jarhead...my apologies to both you and to steve.

Appreciated cause i am quite sure jarhead has probably kissed gals uglier than goats!  After all hes a gyrine!  They are supposed to be able to handle anything!

Quote from: sixdogsmom on July 22, 2011, 09:45:00 PM
My hubby was a dedicated fisherman, and I used to make a dough bait this time of year to catch carp. We would clean them and freeze as a whole fish. I would thaw enough to fill a small pressure pan and cook until the bones were soft. This is prime catfood, and my kitty absolutely adored it! And we had the fun of catching these big guys, and thinning out the population as well.

Actually Carp is not bad at all if you smoke it in a smoker.  I've had it and its quite delicious

Oh, I have eaten carp too but usually we had plenty of panfish available for the table. We just combined a lot of fun, something good for the kitty, and something good for the lake as well. I would recommend this fun for any family with children, hooking one of these big guys can really be exciting!

steve and jug/jar:
isn't releasing water from the drain to a subcontacted bonefide state induced entity, directly an infraction of drainage to other per KDHE?  I only say that because I don't know.
With the regulations...I understand 'my property, my rule'.   I get that.  Somehow the KDHE would frown on that?
Otherwise, if it is a sc-rewage to to all and it is my injestion only that is effected, then I get that too.

I am all aout saving water.  I imagine JARHEAD saves on water too....I can only think of the possibilities! :-X
Rainwater is your best bet  as well as the bathwater....

Good tips! Everyoneready

Steve,
I've ate a lot of smoked carp but the regular ol carp is so bony but you get a 25-30 lb grass carp and it's new ballgame. Bones are big enough to pick out easy plus they don't have near as much of that red meat
Feeding carp to felines ? What a waste of good food---and there are starving Pygmies here in Longton !!!

Ready, First you call me Steve---then you call me Jughead. You aint racking up a lot of points here.

HEY JAR. what have you got against felines eating?   ;D
I know there is a joke inside someone ready to take it one.....
but I am not a politcal person  :o
just wann eat and on my own terms.

That fish sounds great...but I choked on a bone when I was a kid....got the old bread and vinegar chaser put down me...when I went to the Phillipines, I was a little relutcant to give the old home charm...and masticated every little bilt  of that precious fish.
ready

jar:  I now respect for as you called me out.

a problem of speed reading, and NOT PAYING ATTENTION..of which I did not. I was typing while you posted.

Good call.
Carry on, Sir.

(Save the cats)....eat carrots and the rabbitts be damned!     ;D

Quote from: readyaimduck on July 22, 2011, 09:55:13 PM
steve and jug/jar:
isn't releasing water from the drain to a subcontacted bonefide state induced entity, directly an infraction of drainage to other per KDHE?  I only say that because I don't know.
With the regulations...I understand 'my property, my rule'.   I get that.  Somehow the KDHE would frown on that?
Otherwise, if it is a sc-rewage to to all and it is my injestion only that is effected, then I get that too.

I am all aout saving water.  I imagine JARHEAD saves on water too....I can only think of the possibilities! :-X
Rainwater is your best bet  as well as the bathwater....

Good tips! Everyoneready

Do What??  Grey water is sink water, it is not sewage.  It is not harmful.  Its just soapy water.  OR water that is not used to flush human waste.   As far as Whoever KHDE is?  I could care less who they are.   Secondly you can dump sewage on a pasture.  So what is the difference.  

now I am going to bed, hungry after reading this bit of thread.....but smiling...
Steve, Jar, Judy, Cat and all....take care of your food and water!

ready....and lights out! :'(

Quote from: jarhead on July 22, 2011, 09:57:15 PM
Steve,
I've ate a lot of smoked carp but the regular ol carp is so bony but you get a 25-30 lb grass carp and it's new ballgame. Bones are big enough to pick out easy plus they don't have near as much of that red meat
Feeding carp to felines ? What a waste of good food---and there are starving Pygmies here in Longton !!!

I don't know the difference really.  The only carp i have ever caught was those big fat giant goldfish type.   Had a lot of bones but a lot of flesh on them too.

I haven't had a bucket in the shower since our last drought, because it's upstairs, but I already always do use cooking water and left over ice cubes to water my big pots on the deck and my houseplants too. Do you have eels in your creeks?

Diane, we used to have eels in the rivers here until pollution took them out. :P Eels and mussels are a good indicator of the health of the local waters, but I am certain that you know that. They used to catch mussels on a commercial basis here in the Elk river, but that too has gone by the wayside. Too bad!  :-\ :-\

One of my jobs, maybe the last physical one I did, was work for Louis Britian when he bought and sold mussel shells and harvested  mussels.
Jarhead was one of our good suppliers.
The work was yucky (for city slickers) and heavy, that might have been one of the reason my body is in the shape I am in. Louis, Randy, Terry, Sandy and several others got (I think hunting? is that right Ronnie, or fishing license?) for harvesting and then all the masses brought to Louis the shells that were legal size and the keepers and we cooked them out and then went through the meats to look for freshwater pearls.........it was an job I really, really liked.

Oh, to get these mussels, we had to go to the water source. I am not sure where all they went, the Verdigris, Elk, Fall River, Little Caney over by Burden (is that the name Ron?) and even up at Perry Lake in Northern Kansas.

Even though you couldn't tell it, Louis made the money. but he had to pay each person who brought them in for their catches.
I was a buyer and once in awhile the guys would take me to the river with them. I don't swim, but I was in "Hog-Heaven"
It was grooty, we worked the meats. Oh Steve Fielder and his wife worked with us and steve and I went through the meats? after we worked the shells. by then they had sat in the sun all day and of course were rotten and maggoty and just plain grose.
I loved it. We had to feel each one for a rough spot, almost always it was a pearl.......depended on types of meat.........each one could have a little one.Always we would get started then our nose itched......dare you to scratch with rotten mussel meat on the hand. LOL

Now, Louis' factory???!!! was his back yard at Oak Valley. You would have to see to believe it.
Rough, outhouse, cooked the shells in a huge vat that held so many I can't guess the poundage....but each bucket we removed cooked weight 60+ and after we sorted the kinds of shells..........very many different and I can only remember maple leaf, monkey face, one shaped like a dish pan was usually scraped cause the factory couldn't use them for jewelry and used them I think for crushed shell on sidewalks, etc.think that was a WashBoard.
I think 10 or 15 that I can remember types of mussels. I had a blast and don't regret doing it at all.
just a tip of the ice berg. We kept young people working and the guys worked as hard as you would believe. We had people bring to us from all over southeast kansas.
Last I knew some of them got greedy and took out the small ones and instead of tossing back in, opened looking for pearls an dthen a disease got into the rivers and that was that.

Interesting story, Judy, I did not realize that mussel shell were sold in southeast Kansas.  Did they process them and make buttons with them?

Thanks Judy. I knew you had done that from a long ago post, but didn't remember why it all stopped.
As far as being messy, have you ever been up to your elbows in crab gunk?  ;D There is just nothing like a big pile of Old Bay seasoned blue claw crabs on a news paper covered table and picking crabs all afternoon with your friends. Of course there must be ice cold beer, iced tea and corn on the cob too. I like to have some chocolate ice cream for dessert also.

Yes, Dee Gee, Louis waited till he had a semi load and then he had a buyer, (He would not have done it for nothing!) the American Shell, I think, I am having trouble with names today. remember this was from about 87- 91 maybe.....it did continue later but Jim Bunyard did it after Louis had to give it up.
But, the shell company turned it into jewelry and buttons. the mother of pearl and abalone you see make beautiful artful jewelry. and even the cheap stuff louie sold at his shop in town......went well.
Louis did diverse by opening a craft store in Longton and had everything from my woodburning to Randy's t-shirt machine and louie wheeled and dealed with the best. He bought jewelry from the shell company and then we turned around and sold it at craft fairs and street fairs. Those were the years of craft fairs all over the place........we did go to Manhattan and Perry and even did a knife and gun show at Tulsa. Fun and oh so much work. but I love to watch people and believe me we saw "STRANGE" people...........LOL. Oh forgot the "Strangest" were up in Lawrence where all the college people were. really got an education.
Diana, working with the mussels.stopped me from eating oysters for a long time.
Now, I am a land lubber and our oysters (mine anyway) come out of the can. I love soup I love eating them right out of a can for a mini meal. NO I do NOT share! but cooking the shells so they open and then working with the rotten meats, I am sure they compare to working in a slaughter house.........I would do it again in a pinch. altho I would like better creature comforts....not young enough any more, but memories are still going strong.

Shame on your diane bragging aboout your meal with beer and corn on cob.....make my ice cream brown bread and you have a new guest.

Sorry Judy, you'd be welcome anytime. :-*

Jarhead loves that carp because he is just a big ole pussycat! ;D

I've bought sheets of abalone and mother of pearl but never used it from mussels. Don't use it much though you have to wear respirator to work with it.  Dangerous stuff.

Yes, it is steve. We used the pink mother of pearl and once in a blue moon with a certain shell it would be purplish.they were very pretty.
Only thing we made out of them is Randy and I played with jewelry mountings and he mostly cause he had a bit of expierence working for a jeweler in Wichita.....but they were small pieces and the dust was a factor.

One of the things Louie and one of his exwives made was smashed shells in molds of epoxy that he made into clocks. I thought they were hideous (to each their own) sold like hotcakes at fairs, etc.
But, when they were dealing with the resin, I could not breathe and would not pass out, but I got out of there fast. Still have trouble being around anything with the resin or stuff like it.
Did have some near misses ..................we weren't supervised by OSHA and they would have had a field day if they had been in the shop or work site with us. Louie loved bending the law. Another story and I better quit, this is the computer. Louie was one of a kind!

I used it to inlay.  Cutting was always a major issue. Sanding another issue and then your resins i didn't contend with but some of the epoxy glues i did.   The biggie is you do NOT want that dust in your lungs. VERY painful if you do.  ALso in your eyes. Thats not a good thing.

Some of the woods i have worked with you have to use respirator. Some of the wood has natural arsenic.  It will poison you as fast as taking a heaping spoonful as the dust is considered toxic and dangerous. You breathe it in and it takes 1/2 to 1/4 less to make you sick than if you ingest it. 

I never used it though in jewelry.  I stayed with cut stones.

In the shop, I was mainly the sales person and usually the go-fer and when shells were cut, Randy used a band saw, and did slash his hand. Had to rush him to ER and stitches.
Found a wet (don't know what is is called.but used running water to cut (kind of like you would wet cut a ceramic tile.........that kind of saw?) don't remember. They did deer antlers that way once. You talk about stink...........I can still smell it. Was beautiful when it was cut and makes some pretty ornaments if you like that kind of stuff.
I think I mainly enjoyed seeing the inner shells and all the beauty of them with our without jewelry making. Abalone and anyway, I can still see them and it is a good thing.
And of course talking with all the people who throught the shop was a nice place to visit and we always liked to talk. What else is new??? I like stone, to but never got to the grinding stage. just admiring!

Thanks Judy for posting about the mussels, I knew that you had worked with them but did not know it was that large an operation.

I only know those saws as "water saws." I learned a lot today.Thank you.

Tilesaw.  but i think they make a jewelers saw that has the water to keep the dust out ofthe air and to cool the shell.

That is what it was Steve, a jewelers saw. Kept a little bit of water running and it did help with the dust.
The horns/antlers they cut smelled like burnt hair, and stayed in the shop for a long time.
Going to call it a day.
Computer has had enough of my eyeballs today. See you tomorrow after church. keep the battles down and play nice!

Quote from: Judy Harder on July 23, 2011, 07:06:17 PM
That is what it was Steve, a jewelers saw. Kept a little bit of water running and it did help with the dust.
The horns/antlers they cut smelled like burnt hair, and stayed in the shop for a long time.
Going to call it a day.
Computer has had enough of my eyeballs today. See you tomorrow after church. keep the battles down and play nice!

deer bone and antler you have to wear respirator now to work.  Too big a chance that you could get cjb disease from the dust.  Since antler and bone have nerve tissue that the prions reside in you have to wear a niosh mask to keep it out of your system.  Plus it is advised to wear nitrile (not sure if this is right) gloves to keep it from  getting in through the skin.   Niosh is basically what you use for pesticide application or things like painting. 

I personally don't cut the layers of abalone or mother of pearl. I buy the sheets that are cut. I suppose i could do it with my bandsaw but honestly its just too much trouble to get it the proper thickness.  When you deal with inlay like i do the thinner it is the better.  For cutting out the abalone for my inlays i have a jewelers hand saw. ITs basically a c clamp type saw with very very fine diamond blades.  I also have diamond bit sets to do the fine work.  The other thing i love to do is take tourmaline and cut it and inlay the thin slices into my projects.  Makes beautiful bird inlays.

Except for working with the shell chips, most of our jewelry came from the American Shell Company for resale. Already mounted and packaged. That was fun, opening up a shipment and seeing what was in it.
Some of the nicer fresh water pearl Randy's brother, Rod (He is a jeweler in Wichita) made up into earrrings and necklaces and were just georgous.
I talked to one of the harvesters at church this morning. In fact he and his wife, who is Louie's daughter did the shucking and sorting up at Lake Perry, we like reliving it. As hard physically as it was, we did make some money.
That summer I remember the best, a lot of teens and youth treated it like a summer job. Probably worked harder at then putting up hay or sacking groceries or flipping burgers. We adults didn't do too bad either..............we were known to drink it up, and party hardy, but still had a nice piece of change.
We did need a harvester/trappers license to work them and that was very little back then. I think less than 20$, pay back was earned first good harvest. Louie did pay well of course, he made it back PLUS when the truck went out.Thanks for the memories.

Thank you, Judy, for the memories I enjoyed reading them.

Did the owner of the land that contained the creeks that the mussels grew in get paid too? Just curious.

Quote from: Diane Amberg on July 24, 2011, 03:23:51 PM
Did the owner of the land that contained the creeks that the mussels grew in get paid too? Just curious.

uhm waterways are not owned by individuals. That is owned by the corp of engineers i think.  Has something to do with prevention of closing off of navigable waterways. The law was put into effect to stop landowners from blocking access and charging for passage.

UM, I seem to remember that only the water is not owned by the landowner whose property it crosses.  If you cannot get to the water without getting on the property, then you are trespassing unless you have permission to be there.

they own the  1/2 of the river bed...but the waters therein  is a good question.

Quote from: Wilma on July 24, 2011, 04:07:31 PM
UM, I seem to remember that only the water is not owned by the landowner whose property it crosses.  If you cannot get to the water without getting on the property, then you are trespassing unless you have permission to be there.

Here ya go Wilma this will cover the harvesting of mussels on waters that cross private land.  The water is owned by the federal government not the landowner and the landowner cannot prevent the operation of the business that harvests.

Under U.S. law, bodies of water are distinguished according to their use. The distinction is particularly important in the case of so-called navigable waters, which are used for business or transportation. Jurisdiction over navigable waters belongs to the federal government rather than states or municipalities. The federal government can determine how the waters are used, by whom, and under what conditions. It also has the power to alter the waters, such as by dredging or building dams. Generally a state or private property owner who is inconvenienced by such work has no remedy against the federal government unless state or private property itself is taken; if such property is taken, the laws of Eminent Domain would apply, which may lead to compensation for the landowner.

The basis for federal jurisdiction over navigable waters lies in the U.S. Constitution. Since the early nineteenth century, the U.S. Supreme Court has held that the Commerce Clause (Article 1, Section 8) gives the federal government extensive authority to regulate interstate commerce. This view originated in 1824 in the landmark case of gibbons v. ogden, 22 U.S. (9 Wheat.) 1, 6 L. Ed. 23. In Gibbons, the Court was faced with deciding whether to give precedence to a state or federal law for the licensing of vessels. It ruled that navigation of vessels in and out of the ports of the nation is a form of interstate commerce and thus federal law must take precedence. This decision led to the contemporary exercise of broad federal power over navigable waters, and in countless other areas of interstate commerce.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Navigable+Waters

essentially if you can take a canoe up the crick, its navigable!

From the sources I was familiar, we almost always put in where public had fishing rights, and if Louie had any problems, I don't remember.
The harvester/trappers license is what allowed us in the water and if I recall, here on Elk, we put in at Elk Falls and at the Zollars hill area......all with permission of owners of land we had to cross.
Didn't make near the hard feelings that harvesting the snake root did. Where ever!!! people saw them they dug and left divots and in pastures and meadows that makes for poor relations.
The people that went harvesting knew the people, I really don't remember any one griping. And the game warden became friends of ours and even now he will say, hi when he sees me.
Sheriff Dee Clarkson kept me company many nights when the guys were out harvesting and I was at Louies buying the mussels the guys and some gals brought in. All treated me well. I was left there alone with only Louie's dogs for protection. Only once did I think iffy thoughts and I just didn't know the guys coming in. I stayed till about 10 at night. See they worked during the daylight as much as they could and at sundown they came to sell them.
Louie and Randy went the farthest away. Think they hit Lake Cheyene at Wichita and what is that river that goes from there to Ark City......oh wait till Ronnie gets back from vacation and maybe he can help remember he was one of the bums? I mean no one came dressed up. roughest bunch you ever saw.............and fun and nice.
(oh they didn't keep mussels over night we bought live and altho I think a couple times louie did buy when he knew he could sell the shells.but all had to come in the day/night they picked them. Then next day we cooked and shucked them. early so we could survive...the mess, bugs and stink of it. Could get ripe and a half.

Didn't you say the mussel meat went for pig chow? We eat the saltwater version here. Alex's Seafood at the big farmers market near New Castle sell 'em steamed in the shell. Really sweet and good.

No, they got scraped. but we decided to use a lot of them to suppliment hog feed. We bought (had about 7 people go together) to buy the piglets and then when the mussels were shucked and after work, we added them to the feed trough.
You want to hear some nasty sounding noise then pigs eating and squealing and slurping them down.UGH

Found out the only way I like pork, is in the freezer until I can cook it. Enjoyed each bite of pork I ate.....and will not do that again.
These mussels were good and wasted when we got done with them. That is why it took me so long before I could face an oyster.....and then Not raw on halfshell or such.
I must say. except for catfish/bass and fish caught around Kansas, I have never eaten any fish caught from the sea. Oh, yes I have had some crab cakes......out of a can..........and I do love Crab Rangoons.....but haven't ever ate any other kind.
I know, I know, landlubber and just never been there where I could.

Judy, I'm with you.  I don't care for seafood, but our freshwater fish, freshly caught can't be beat.

You get the locals to catch the crappie or bass in season, donate it for the VFW, the churches to have a fish fry all with the fixin's of hush puppies, homemade, cole slaw, homemade saucse....some "very good eats" :)....to quote Alton Brown.

 Judy, fish sticks? They are usually sea fish, often pollock. Any kind of really fresh fish is tops! Down on Cape Hatteras NC ,the local fire companies have the best fish fries in the summer..... same menu! The firefighters go out and catch the fish, so the fish fry is Catch of The Day. Makes me want some just to write about it.

diane, while Robyn was in the Army (MP) she was stationed at Aberdeen in Maryland is that right on chesapeak bay by Annapolis. and she swears the difference in sea/fresh can't compare to those shipped in. I always want to try Red Lobster and the other places that sell them, just never got to a city at the right time to eat there and except seeing them in meat cases. I probably would eat crawdaddy's first. I do know what they are and have even ate some gator tail that wasn't half bad.
But, I haven't been anywhere except Kansas and when the folks took us to California, we did not have money to eat out and our family was meat and tators.maybe fried catfish if we were home.
Sounds good and I would be game to try your special fish. but am not holding my breath. (Oh, I do like Long John Silvers) always like the cracklings best tho.....just a redneck mam just a redneck.

Fish was always a treat at our house, and most of it was caught by the family. I do remember canned salmon and tuna, but no other purchased fish until home freezers came into vogue. Then we had ocean perch and occasionally, shrimp. My very first restraunt seafood was a seabass at a Chinese place in Chinatown, San Francisco when i was 12. That was the year our family made the trek to the promised land of California. Two weeks of wonders, one after another!  :D :D I still adore fish, and other seafood.

Quote from: sixdogsmom on July 25, 2011, 08:04:58 PM
Fish was always a treat at our house, and most of it was caught by the family. I do remember canned salmon and tuna, but no other purchased fish until home freezers came into vogue. Then we had ocean perch and occasionally, shrimp. My very first restraunt seafood was a seabass at a Chinese place in Chinatown, San Francisco when i was 12. That was the year our family made the trek to the promised land of California. Two weeks of wonders, one after another!  :D :D I still adore fish, and other seafood.

OK folks this is an inside joke Edie will know what I mean.

Edie as your "boy toy", if I am so lucky to get that status when I move to Elk County to reform the government, I will be able to bring you all the fish that you desire from San Francisco's Chinatown and Half Moon Bay, CA.  :laugh:

David

Quote from: Diane Amberg on July 25, 2011, 06:32:49 PM
Judy, fish sticks? They are usually sea fish, often pollock. Any kind of really fresh fish is tops! Down on Cape Hatteras NC ,the local fire companies have the best fish fries in the summer..... same menu! The firefighters go out and catch the fish, so the fish fry is Catch of The Day. Makes me want some just to write about it.

my favorite is dolphin.  If i ever get back to the carolinas or even savannah, i'll load up two coolers worth and bring back.  I know where i can buy it a dollar a pound!  and i will load up!  Go right to the boat when it comes in.

Quote from: Judy Harder on July 25, 2011, 07:26:02 PM
diane, while Robyn was in the Army (MP) she was stationed at Aberdeen in Maryland is that right on chesapeak bay by Annapolis. and she swears the difference in sea/fresh can't compare to those shipped in. I always want to try Red Lobster and the other places that sell them, just never got to a city at the right time to eat there and except seeing them in meat cases. I probably would eat crawdaddy's first. I do know what they are and have even ate some gator tail that wasn't half bad.
But, I haven't been anywhere except Kansas and when the folks took us to California, we did not have money to eat out and our family was meat and tators.maybe fried catfish if we were home.
Sounds good and I would be game to try your special fish. but am not holding my breath. (Oh, I do like Long John Silvers) always like the cracklings best tho.....just a redneck mam just a redneck.

unfortunately red lobster isn't good seafood at all. :(  They used to be years ago. Now they are just an over priced food chain store. 

We visited my aunt in Washington state one summer and she thought that fresh salmon would be a treat for us.  I thought so, too.  I don't know how she fixed it, but I could hardly eat it.  Now, we buy fresh salmon once in awhile and Daughter steams it.  Almost as good a fresh caught catfish.  Since I can't go fishing anymore (afraid of rolling into the pond) I just have to depend on the generosity of others for the fresh caught.  (Jarhead, hint, hint,)  I am sure Jo would enjoy some, too. and I don't live too far from her.

Oaky David, just make certain that you have plenty of ice since they get a little grumpy with fishy smell on the bus!  :D Please do not bring any of those mermaids though, I don't think the fishermen around here could stand the shock!

And Steve, I don't think that I could eat dolphin, they seem to be such an intelligent critter and have a long history of aiding sailors.  :P :P

Quote from: srkruzich on July 25, 2011, 08:33:14 PM
my favorite is dolphin.  If i ever get back to the carolinas or even savannah, i'll load up two coolers worth and bring back.  I know where i can buy it a dollar a pound!  and i will load up!  Go right to the boat when it comes in.

Steve are you talking the Mahi Mahi (Dolphin fish) or Dolphin " Flipper the dolphin"? I have had both. I prefer Mahi Mahi.

David

Quoteunfortunately red lobster isn't good seafood at all.

To me, Red Lobster to fresh fish is like Mikey D's to home grown beef.
Commercialism has taken over the flavor and the love of catching, cooking and serving.
ready

QuotePlease do not bring any of those mermaids though, I don't think the fishermen around here could stand the shock!

I just know there is joke somewhere in that line!...just to proper to say it!   :o

ready

Quote from: sixdogsmom on July 25, 2011, 08:39:41 PM
Oaky David, just make certain that you have plenty of ice since they get a little grumpy with fishy smell on the bus!  :D Please do not bring any of those mermaids though, I don't think the fishermen around here could stand the shock!

And Steve, I don't think that I could eat dolphin, they seem to be such an intelligent critter and have a long history of aiding sailors.  :P :P

Edie you said you were 12 when you went to SF. How do you know about the nude Mermaid show in North Beach?

David

p.s. If I have to take a bus to get to Kansas it will be a very cold day in hell before I make it to Howard.

D

Quote from: Wilma on July 25, 2011, 08:35:26 PM
We visited my aunt in Washington state one summer and she thought that fresh salmon would be a treat for us.  I thought so, too.  I don't know how she fixed it, but I could hardly eat it.  Now, we buy fresh salmon once in awhile and Daughter steams it.  Almost as good a fresh caught catfish.  Since I can't go fishing anymore (afraid of rolling into the pond) I just have to depend on the generosity of others for the fresh caught.  (Jarhead, hint, hint,)  I am sure Jo would enjoy some, too. and I don't live too far from her.

IF you like fresh salmon, you can buy fresh caught that day salmon at dillons 2 days a week.

Quote from: sixdogsmom on July 25, 2011, 08:39:41 PM
Oaky David, just make certain that you have plenty of ice since they get a little grumpy with fishy smell on the bus!  :D Please do not bring any of those mermaids though, I don't think the fishermen around here could stand the shock!

And Steve, I don't think that I could eat dolphin, they seem to be such an intelligent critter and have a long history of aiding sailors.  :P :P

Sixdogs i said dolphin not porpoise.  Dolphin is also called mai mai.  Porpoise is flipper. 

Quote from: readyaimduck on July 25, 2011, 08:41:05 PM
To me, Red Lobster to fresh fish is like Mikey D's to home grown beef.
Commercialism has taken over the flavor and the love of catching, cooking and serving.
ready

Good analogy!  ewwwww.

and you said dolphin instead of on "porpoise" ????        ;D

Quote from: readyaimduck on July 25, 2011, 09:00:44 PM
and you said dolphin instead of on "porpoise" ????        ;D

Dolphin is mai mai.  Porpoise is the ones that help the divers.  ONE Is a fish, the other is a mammel.

Quote from: readyaimduck on July 25, 2011, 09:00:44 PM
and you said dolphin instead of on "porpoise" ????        ;D

oh ok. damn don't do that, its late! My brain is on overload tonight

Off to bed to swim in my bed of dreams, with a smackeral of smiles!   ;D

As the old TV guy said...."Gone fishing....instead.....of wishin'"

ready and full to the gills.

Steve, for your benefit---- from Wiki---

Dolphins are marine mammals that are closely related to whales and porpoises. There are almost forty species of dolphin in 17 genera. They vary in size from 1.2 m (4 ft) and 40 kg (90 lb) (Maui's dolphin), up to 9.5 m (30 ft) and 10 tonnes (9.8 long tons; 11 short tons) (the orca or killer whale). They are found worldwide, mostly in the shallower seas of the continental shelves, and are carnivores, mostly eating fish and squid. The family Delphinidae is the largest in the Cetacean order, and evolved relatively recently, about ten million years ago, during the Miocene. Dolphins are among the most intelligent animals, and their often friendly appearance and seemingly playful attitude have made them popular in human culture.

Mahi Mahi fish was nicknamed like so, since people confused it with the mammal 'dolphin', mistaking it for a completely different breed of fish. They are not only found in Hawaii, but in tropical and sub tropical waters as well. The colors that this fish possesses are shimmery and extremely vibrant, although when subjected to open air once caught, change rapidly in color, not affecting the taste and texture of the meat.
its scientific name is coryphaena hippurus  it is also called a dolphin fish not mammal. LOL.  Thats why they call it mahi mahi now!

What your referring to as dolphin is Delphinidae.  That is not the dolphin fish!

Dolphin fish(Mahi Mahi), Porpoise\Dolphin\ Flipper. All very tasty. All I can say is that as a kid I had a stuffed "Flipper" he got burned on my Grandma Winn's big heating unit. Had to be thrown away. Very traumatic. After learning of this event 30 years later my Mom gave me a new stuffed "Flipper" for my birthday at 35. Burned him up in the house fire in 2010 along with me. Still love Mahi Mahi no more eating "Flipper" my childhood friend.

David

I think it was Judy that mentioned crawdads. As kids in Kansas and Missouri we used to catch them by the bucket full for free or maybe the cost of a couple of strips of bacon hooked to a string. Used them for trot lines and drop lines. Also, used them for a crawdad boil, better than lobster.  I can get crawdads\crayfish locally for $4.99\lb. Maine Lobster and Pacific Rock Lobster much more expensive. 

David

    The swordfish steak I had in Newport Beach , catch of the day, was unreal.