Here is another subject you can chew up and spit out. Maxine and I just heard the Teachers Union has endorsed Obama early for reelection. Can't say I agree but that is just our opinion!!!!!!! >:(
Which teacher's union? If it's the one here in Kansas, then this teacher will be going against the grain, as usual. I would like to see what some new blood at the helm could accomplish.
Quote from: Catwoman on July 06, 2011, 08:51:48 AM
Which teacher's union?
The National Education Assn. (NEA). And before there's even an alternative selected in the primaries. Best socialist for the job? All about helping the kids, you know.
Story: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/obama-passes-teachers-testbarely/story?id=14003658 (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/obama-passes-teachers-testbarely/story?id=14003658)
We need a total overhaul at the Congressional level, not just the POTUS, if we're going to see American education begin to rebound from the damage caused it in the past 10 years. NCLB is totally unrealistic. There's got to be a better way to achieve what it is that we've got to get done for our children. A good place to start, though, would be the Presidency...And then work our way down the food chain.
Thanks Cat, you saved me from asking the same question. I know one way the problems are being handled. Charter schools. You all know I'm very pro Charters for people for whom it's a good match.
I hate to say it, but even our local district administrators need to be kicked in the butt. They pulled a fast one recently. Held a referendum ( we passed it) supposedly to do a number of projects, but they filled several more unneeded administrator positions instead...none of the money made it to the classroom level. It raised our school taxes for three consecutive years. They will not be forgotten! The teachers felt very foolish; many live here and it raised their taxes too!They are helping pay for new positions without getting any benefit in the classrooms for themselves. Now there is a big push for us to build a new Newark Charter High School with a tie in to UD.
Quote from: Catwoman on July 06, 2011, 08:51:48 AM
Which teacher's union? If it's the one here in Kansas, then this teacher will be going against the grain, as usual. I would like to see what some new blood at the helm could accomplish.
Going against the grain? You'll have company, me and hubby....
Lisa
Couldn't ask for anything better! ;D ;)
It's never going to get better just because you elect different socialists to office. And your teachers' unions don't have any solutions.
The best thing to do is abolish the gov't/public schools. At the least, public schools ought to be under local control, not state or Federal, and without teachers' unions.
Red, just the fact that you could make that statement indicates you really have no true working knowledge of the field of Education, beyond that of what you have been exposed to in your own K-12 education. What you have proposed is a nice little pipedream (and I'd be interested to see what you're stuffing that pipe with, to be honest).
Red, what about the school administrators unions?
It was also stated they raised the teachers dues by $10.00 so it go toward Obamas campaign.
WHAT???????????????? >:( I didn't volunteer to have my paycheck gouged for that idiot's benefit!
Cat, please look that up for yourself.That's not what I read. One blogger is trying to put a spin on it. I read that the increase, which is true for NEA, is to combat the loss of bargaining rights among other things.
Well, speaking as a single mom, I don't see where my having to forcibly donate ten more dollars to the cause every month is going to do anything to mitigate the loss of bargaining rights.
Cat check with your rep.There was a time when people who didn't support the political activity could petition to get that part of their dues refunded. I have no idea if that is still true...It's been a long time.
Interesting...I may have to look into that. Thank you! That will save me over 120/year!!
Quote from: Catwoman on July 06, 2011, 01:20:30 PM
Red, just the fact that you could make that statement indicates you really have no true working knowledge of the field of Education, beyond that of what you have been exposed to in your own K-12 education. What you have proposed is a nice little pipedream (and I'd be interested to see what you're stuffing that pipe with, to be honest).
Actually he's right on the money. Abolish the Department of Ed, and return local control to the communities with schools. We know that Centralized school management doesn't work. IF your going to distribute tax dollars for schools then do so based on performance.
I still believe that if the kid doesn't give a rats ass about his education, then thats his/her choice and should reap the consequences of that decision. Personally if each parent had to foot the bill for their kids education instead of all of us, then they would have a vested interest in making sure their child learns.
So how do you propose to create responsible parents in order to have responsible kids? Ya can't sterilize 'em just in case.
Steve, I am curious as to how much you think parents should pay each year for the education of the children. Would it be enough to cover costs for materials, utilities, wages of staff, etc.?
And don't forget having to pay for all of the unfunded mandates, that (after the Fed. funding is stripped away) will now fall on the local municipalities to have to pay for in its entirety? Short of doctors and lawyers, there won't be many who will be able to afford to educate their children...And the chasm between the have's and the have not's will widen even further than it is already.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on July 06, 2011, 09:08:17 PM
So how do you propose to create responsible parents in order to have responsible kids? Ya can't sterilize 'em just in case.
Not my problem. That is their responsibility. One way to make them responsible is to quit bailing them out. When you bail someone out all the time you don't make it more beneficial for them to become responsible.
Quote from: gina on July 06, 2011, 09:11:59 PM
Steve, I am curious as to how much you think parents should pay each year for the education of the children. Would it be enough to cover costs for materials, utilities, wages of staff, etc.?
Whatever it takes. I have 3 boys that i footed the entire bill with no help from taxpayers to the tune of 15,000 dollars a year. PLUS I paid for all the other rugrats education. But i have a hell of a lot better results out of the investment i put into my kids.
You know, people will invest in all kinds of get rich quick schemes, lotto tickets, scratch offs, liquor, pot whatever but they will not sink 1 thin dime into their children as an investment. THey say oh the govenrment school is there for that. Take that away, and you give them no choice. Again, its not my problem if they can't afford it, if they can't do like i did for a while get a second and third job, better themselves so they can get a better job and then they can relax and smoke dope drink their life away.
i'm just like the many millions of other parents out there that are quite tired of footing the bill and getting piss poor results. Hell the foreign kids are smarter than our kids as a whole. That speaks volumes about our educational system.
Quote from: Catwoman on July 06, 2011, 09:16:20 PM
And don't forget having to pay for all of the unfunded mandates, that (after the Fed. funding is stripped away) will now fall on the local municipalities to have to pay for in its entirety? Short of doctors and lawyers, there won't be many who will be able to afford to educate their children...And the chasm between the have's and the have not's will widen even further than it is already.
Poppycock. THe haves my ass. I didn't have squat when i put my boys through school. I worked my ass off to get them through. THAT WAS MY FAULT i acknowlege that. BUT I RECTIFIED that situation and educated myself at the same time so i could quit working three jobs and work just one.
I Don't think anyone should pay tax on a school. IF they can't afford to send em to school homeschool them The best and brightest minds in this country were homeschooled over the history of this country. They didn't have schools in 1700's yet the public was not illiterate. They could conduct business, they handled money, they read they wrote, they did all the things we do. AND some of those even invented. Take ELI Whitney for example. Think he had a harvard education, Not a chance but he did have a parent that made sure he could function.
Time to lay responsibility where it lies back on the individual instead of government taking it on and fleecing the taxpayer for it.
Quote from: Catwoman on July 06, 2011, 09:16:20 PM
And the chasm between the have's and the have not's will widen even further than it is already.
BTW why is it so important to close the chasm? Sorry but i dont' understand that need. IF YOU WANT To get over to the have side, you work your ass off, educate yourself and prepare and plan for the future. You don't get handed the have side on a silver platter. THe haves have what they earn because they were smart, planned and prepared.
I can see your point, Steve...But it only works if John Q. Public is identical to you...And parents like you are not as numerous as they'd have to be in order to have your scenario work. It's a nice idea, though...In a Utopian society, it'd function exactly as you describe it. The reality falls far short of you and your personal endeavors. The idea of closing that chasm...Or at least making a shorter jump...Is that of preparing all kids to have the same kinds of opportunities. That doesn't mean all will be able to make it to middle class functioning status...It just means that they will all at least have had the opportunity to head that direction.
I agree with you that the Federal Gov't is too involved with education. However, I don't think that middle class parents would be able to afford the cost that they would have to fork out yearly. I work as a teacher and have a second job, plus my husband works 72 hours a week. There is no way we could foot the bill of elementary and secondary school, plus save for college tuition.
Quote from: Catwoman on July 06, 2011, 09:39:33 PM
I can see your point, Steve...But it only works if John Q. Public is identical to you...And parents like you are not as numerous as they'd have to be in order to have your scenario work. It's a nice idea, though...In a Utopian society, it'd function exactly as you describe it. The reality falls far short of you and your personal endeavors. The idea of closing that chasm...Or at least making a shorter jump...Is that of preparing all kids to have the same kinds of opportunities. That doesn't mean all will be able to make it to middle class functioning status...It just means that they will all at least have had the opportunity to head that direction.
Isn't it the kids responsibility to prepare for that. You teach them the basics. Pretty darn simple, reading, writing, and arithmatic. Science can be done too its not that hard to teach physics, or biology, heck country kids ought to be able to learn that real quick.
how a kid prepares is to sit their butt down and worry about learning, not worry bout what each other wears, or who has the best ipad or iphone. Sorry but i have watched them these days and I am more convinced that when i raised mine i forbade use of any device. They had a computer at home and nintendo. They didn't get cell phones until they were almost on their own.
Kids prepare by getting good grades, learning what is available and then first and formost, the teacher or parents or whoever is educating them needs to spend time teaching the kids how to teach themselves. THat is the requirement for success.
Good lord, i didn't learn what i know in school. I taught myself. I taught myself how to do the mumbo jumbo you called it, and turned it into a 120,000 a year job. I took the basics and prepared, researched the future jobs and shot for the moon. I landed somewhere halfway.
What don't want to do is molly coddle them. Saw that article the other day, can't remember where, where the author said they need tough teachers. IT works!
As far as middle class affording it? They can! they have to sacrifice to do it but they can. IF a single male parent with 3 kids can do it, then two parents with 3 kids can do it. THey just have to get out of the box, and get creative.
I wish to Heaven that more parents were like you, Steve. You have both my admiration and my praise for your parenting skills. You, unfortunately, aren't the norm...You are a good example of what to be.
Quote from: gina on July 06, 2011, 09:43:08 PM
I agree with you that the Federal Gov't is too involved with education. However, I don't think that middle class parents would be able to afford the cost that they would have to fork out yearly. I work as a teacher and have a second job, plus my husband works 72 hours a week. There is no way we could foot the bill of elementary and secondary school, plus save for college tuition.
I paid 15,000 for three kids per year. AND that was a exclusive school. Dolly partons nephews and neices go there, she pays for theirs, so do many other country singer celebrities kids. THat school was the ultimate in education. It was on a farm, had horses cows pigs ducks geese ect ect and kids got to go out and work with them as part of their educaiton. Science class mostly. They also had the basics and they had top notch physical science teachers. What they didn't have was government regulations and unions getting in the way of teaching. When the teacher entered the room the kids stood up got quiet said the pledge and the teacher would then say please be seated. THere was no tolerance for any ill behavior. IF the child was ever rude to an adult they were sent home. Do it more than 3 times they didn't come back. None of them failed. I mean Zero child in the whole school failed any classes. AND heres the kicker. The school taught kids with ADHD, and several other disorders. So yeah middle class can pay 5000 dollars a year for a child. Lets see. that would be the equivelent of 1 large starbucks coffee, 1 pack of cigarettes, and half a gallon of gas to go get them a day. How many people out there can afford their smokes or starbucks and driving.
Just so you know...I don't smoke, make my own coffee at home, and my driving is limited to the places I have to go. No aimlessly cruising the city streets of Howard for me. lol
Quote from: Catwoman on July 06, 2011, 09:58:01 PM
I wish to Heaven that more parents were like you, Steve. You have both my admiration and my praise for your parenting skills. You, unfortunately, aren't the norm...You are a good example of what to be.
I'm not that great, just carried what i was taught from my parents to my kids. I'm a product of a broken abuse cycle. My dad was horribly abused, but he stood up the day he had me and vowed that he would never do what his dad did to him and his brothers. He died with no bitterness towards his dad only love and compassion towards him.
What we have is a society induced cycle in our schools. The way to change it is to tolerate it no more. I love this saying, DEMAND Excellence! Settle for Nothing less than the Best.
I was just thinking that at $5,000 a year per student, our local district has an enrollment around 400 counting pre-K through 12, so the district would have to operate on $200,000 a year. Ouch!
Quote from: gina on July 06, 2011, 10:06:47 PM
Just so you know...I don't smoke, make my own coffee at home, and my driving is limited to the places I have to go. No aimlessly cruising the city streets of Howard for me. lol
ROTFL Well i was speaking about the general population. BUt my point is that for 13 dollars a day you can educate your child, in a high quality school.
Now heres the real million dollar question....
IF I can educate my child for 5,000 a year, why is it that schools are spending over 18,000 a year on education per student?
maybe not here, but a national average states this.
Could someone tell me where the other 13,000 dollars a year goes??
OH and one more thing, the 5000 dollar a year education got my kids invited to DUKE university at the age of 12
Quote from: gina on July 06, 2011, 10:10:35 PM
I was just thinking that at $5,000 a year per student, our local district has an enrollment around 400 counting pre-K through 12, so the district would have to operate on $200,000 a year. Ouch!
It can be done! ANd you can get the highest quality education too! Where does the rest of the money go?
Quote from: gina on July 06, 2011, 10:10:35 PM
I was just thinking that at $5,000 a year per student, our local district has an enrollment around 400 counting pre-K through 12, so the district would have to operate on $200,000 a year. Ouch!
Sorry.... no. That's $2,000,000 not $200k.
Oops, my bad! :-\ I forgot to regroup my 2 to the millions place. lol
Some of the expenses that come to mind are salaries, utilities, maitenance of buildings, supplies, and technology.
I'm off to bed, I am usually sound asleep at this time of night.
Quote from: gina on July 06, 2011, 10:19:01 PM
Oops, my bad! :-\
LOL.... TOo late to be adding.
The school my boys went to had 800 students, 22 teachers 1 headmaster and office staff. teachers average pay amongst all of them was 45,000 SOme got more some less depending on what they did. Pay was based on performance, as well as responsibilities.
building maint fund was not that high, they kept it maintained. Part of that was classes. The students did a lot of the maintenance to learn how. The headmaster made 70k a year. so he was not paid outlandishlly like our government school supervisors are.
that pretty much left about 2.8 mil for the funding of their education. Oh and they didn't have a football stadium, they had a ball field but it didn't have fancy bleachers in fact to watch a game they took chairs out and sat and watched.
Sports were there but they were played on the kids own time.
Had music class but the parents paid for that extra if they wanted their child to get that.
Quote from: srkruzich link=topic=12175.msg167531#msg167531 date=1310007
Abolish the Department of Ed, and return local control to the communities with schools.
/quote]
That would be an excellent start! And get rid of No Child Left Behind!
Lisa
Head Start has been around since LBJ. What an expensive venture that one has been.
A better name for Head Start would be "False Start". Call it what it is.