Heard about any group meetings lately? You'll want to be ready to attend the next one.
Here's one for everyone in Elk County. Good read..........
http://www.freedomadvocates.org/images/pdf/how%20to%20handle%20predetermined%20consensus%20meetings.pdf
Excellent.
There is something vaguley similiar about that artcle and SEK. Hmmmm ::)
Very good article.
Ready
Others are noticing as well.......
Using the Delphi Technique to Achieve Consensus
How it is leading us away from representative government to an illusion of citizen participation
Consistent use of this technique to control public participation in our political system is causing alarm among people who cherish the form of government established by our Founding Fathers. Efforts in education and other areas have brought the emerging picture into focus.
In the not-too-distant past, the city of Spokane, in Washington state, hired a consultant to the tune of $47,000 to facilitate the direction of city government. This development brought a hue and cry from the local population. The ensuing course of action holds an eerie similarity to what is happening in education reform. A newspaper editorial described how groups of disenfranchised citizens were brought together to "discuss" what they felt needed to be changed at the local government level. A compilation of the outcomes of those "discussions" influenced the writing of the city/county charter.
That sounds innocuous. But what actually happened in Spokane is happening in communities and school districts all across the country...
Full article: http://www.eagleforum.org/educate/1998/nov98/focus.html (http://www.eagleforum.org/educate/1998/nov98/focus.html)
From Karl Marx to communism to Kansas...
The real ugly truth about Delphi....
http://www.learn-usa.com/transformation_process/~consensus.htm (http://www.learn-usa.com/transformation_process/~consensus.htm)
This is a real eye opener for me. I went to Elk Konnected's very first meeting, I met the facilitator before the meeting started. I didn't know he was a facilitator, and I thought he was a citizen of Elk County. I thought wow, what this guy and this organization is going to try to do is terrific. I sat in the circles of chairs. I felt like an outsider when I mentioned that perhaps a little more advertising for Moline's Crazy Day's and suggesting that people in the larger towns would enjoy the country atmosphere would raw more people out to look and spend money in to our economy. i fel as if I was treated like an idiot. From that point on I got more and more dismayed at the fuction of the organization. It was as if they didn't really want input. I chose to not return to their meetings. Boy, did they make a fool of me.
When they started in on the wind farm at the Swinging Bridge Cafe and our County Commisioner who introduced her self as such said Elk Konnected wanted to know what the ladies of the Red Hat Society wanted to do with the Million Dollars. A lady said lower my taxes, and Liz said we need to do something more positive we need to find something more permanent to do with the money. I realized Liz was telling the lady no - without saying no. A very old method used by politicians to avoid the original statement. That's why I went The so called Wind Farm Community Conversation. I wanted to talk with the organization I fell right into their trap to be used. I think they even knew I was coming.
Boy was I naive.
Thanks for this informatin guys. I learned some things.
Quote from: Ross on May 31, 2011, 10:50:59 AM
A lady said lower my taxes, and Liz said we need to do something more positive we need to find something more permanent to do with the money. I realized Liz was telling the lady no - without saying no.
As if letting people keep the money they worked hard to earn is a bad thing? Sounds more like Obama's spread the wealth nonsense... right here in river city. In the 60's we called that philosophy what it was... socialism and communism.
Quote from: readyaimduck on May 31, 2011, 07:53:37 AM
There is something vaguley similiar about that artcle and SEK. Hmmmm ::)
Very good article.
Ready
Vaguely wouldn't be my first choice. LOL I was thinking more like frighteningly similar. And given the technique's origins in the Hegelian Principle and Marxist doctrine... Delphi should really concern anyone who considers themselves loyal to the principles that founded this country. You are right.... very eye opening article.
Patriot, have you ever been to one of their meetings that you say are controlled??? Just wondering, Ready, have you????
I in no way felt I couldn't say what I wanted. I felt that others listened and I listened to others!! Get a grip!!!
Quote from: Lookatmeknow!! on May 31, 2011, 03:56:27 PM
Patriot, have you ever been to one of their meetings that you say are controlled??? Just wondering, Ready, have you????
Yes.
Are you so blind that you don't see the Delphi method of group manipulation in action?
http://www.freedomadvocates.org/images/pdf/how%20to%20handle%20predetermined%20consensus%20meetings.pdf (http://www.freedomadvocates.org/images/pdf/how%20to%20handle%20predetermined%20consensus%20meetings.pdf)
Have you ever been to a meeting where ideas were openly debated so all individuals present could make up their own minds instead of having to believing what the meeting facilitators told you were the best ideas?
I have. I just didn't see their meetings this way! Guess that is your way of how you see things, and my way of seeing things!! I voiced my opinion, and for the matter there was no action taken at the meeting just discussion. No, Sorry Patriot, I'm not blind. I have 20/20 vision!!
Quote from: Lookatmeknow!! on May 31, 2011, 04:17:29 PM
I have. I just didn't see their meetings this way! Guess that is your way of how you see things, and my way of seeing things!! I voiced my opinion, and for the matter there was no action taken at the meeting just discussion. No, Sorry Patriot, I'm not blind. I have 20/20 vision!!
Perhaps.
Patriot, I don't know how many times that Angie has said that she has been to a meeting, spoke her thoughts and in no way felt pressured or manipulated. Don't you believe her or do you think she is too stupid to know the difference?
Quote from: Wilma on May 31, 2011, 05:06:07 PM
Patriot, I don't know how many times that Angie has said that she has been to a meeting, spoke her thoughts and in no way felt pressured or manipulated. Don't you believe her or do you think she is too stupid to know the difference?
With the process you won't be pressured or made to feel manipulated. Thats why it is so accepted. Unfortunately they don't have your best interest at heart. They only have their agenda to push
You know i used to call something like this process diplomacy. Its just like telling someone to go to hell and getting them to look forward to the trip
I may have poor physical vision and I was a little slow on understanding the process they use.
But this thread has opened my mental vision and it is real easy to see and understand.
Why do you think no one knows who suggested what?
Why do you think the majority of the suggestions are about city functions?
Perhaps to build up Howard, home of Elk konnected, LLC's fitness center?
Elk Konnected, LLC reminds me of the West Elk School Bond Issue. 2/3 of the county was against it and 2/3 of Howard was for it.
Way too bad they were out numbered by county residents. Just numbers.
Oh, I better have a a disclaimer there has been an attempt to intimidate me with legal implications.
So here it is, everything I write on here is only my opinion, some are written with links to facts. I have also been accused of being to polite --- to that I must plead guilty. My sincerest apologies to those I have offended by being to polite.
Do you know who the registered Elk Konnected, LLC members are.
At this point after reading how blind I am by my own opinions and basically not in my right mind because I choose to have my own opinion, I am really thinking that you guys just want to make me look stupid at all times. I for one am not stupid. I know alot of the answers that you want. I for one don't know who the members are, I could care less. I do know some other things that you have been asking. And like a little kid that I am being treated like, am not telling you a darn thing. Your right I don't have to read you rude and down right demeaning comments that you keep making towards me and my opinions. I have had enough of the comments and feel in my best interest to no comment any more. I thought that these threads were for discussion. But Ross, Patriot, Steve, and others feel it in their interest to knock people down, and I don't need to feel belittle when reading the discussion that is that way any longer. Other people have told me that they have stopped reading the forum because of all the negative comments. Now I know why!! It's sad that people can't read an open forum or comment without being felt like they are attacked with their opinions. So you all have a nice bashing time on here!!! Now have your party on my behalf like always!! Hope you find the answers to your questions that you feel you are deserved!!! >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Angie is right. How many members do we have that are no longer posting? I know of at least one that no longer reads any of it because of the way some of the posts are treated. Like there is only one right way and everything else is nonsense. I could do a little research and tell you just exactly who was posting a year ago that is no longer posting. I feel as if we have lost the best part of this forum and I could also tell you exactly who has killed it.
Remeber, this is just my opinion.
Quote from: Lookatmeknow!! on June 01, 2011, 07:06:17 AM
I thought that these threads were for discussion. But Ross, Patriot, Steve, and others feel it in their interest to knock people down, and I don't need to feel belittle when reading the discussion that is that way any longer...
...Now have your party on my behalf like always!!...
...Hope you find the answers to your questions that you feel you are deserved!!!
Your repeated attempts to paint some of us on one side of the issue as deamonizers indicate that you haven't really read carefully. I've seen more than ample evidence that negative personal assault, attack and insinuation isn't the exclusive domain of anyone in particular here.
Party? What is it with the persecution complexes on here? This is about policy and politics, and sometimes it gets rough to be sure. What was it you said at one point... oh.."get over it."
Not 'feel'...'know' are deserved. Citizens, voters and taxpayers are entitled to answers about government and its' activities... Neither America nor Elk County are kingdoms yet. I'm sure we will have the answers. Even now a few answers are floating to the top.
Now, that Delphi Technique sure is a dangerous thing, isn't it. Seems some can see it in practice right before their eyes and still be misled in broad daylight.
Quote from: Wilma on June 01, 2011, 08:05:54 AM
Angie is right. How many members do we have that are no longer posting? I know of at least one that no longer reads any of it because of the way some of the posts are treated. Like there is only one right way and everything else is nonsense. I could do a little research and tell you just exactly who was posting a year ago that is no longer posting. I feel as if we have lost the best part of this forum and I could also tell you exactly who has killed it.
Remeber, this is just my opinion.
Yeah, a half a dozen topics out of over 10000 on one or two of over a dozen forums have killed the place. And the moon is made of green cheese. For what it's worth Wilma, your veiled accusations are no different or better than those you accuse others of making. Why do you lower yourself to a standard you decry in the same breath? Never mind, the answer would be irrelevant.
And that is my opinion... and we all know what opinions resemble.
Isn't that article red posted interesting? I sure hate to see those tactics used locally. But it appears they are.
Quote from: Lookatmeknow!! on June 01, 2011, 07:06:17 AM
. Other people have told me that they have stopped reading the forum because of all the negative comments.
Quote from: Wilma on June 01, 2011, 08:05:54 AM
Angie is right. How many members do we have that are no longer posting? I could do a little research and tell you just exactly who was posting a year ago that is no longer posting. I feel as if we have lost the best part of this forum and I could also tell you exactly who has killed it.
Since I am the only one with "real" access to who does and doesn't read the forum and how many unique hits we have in here.. then I think I might be the only one in here that can say who is right and who is wrong in this particular case.. Not to mention names ( as I never do)... but just this week alone, I have received 23 messages and emails telling me that although they do not post and most are not even logged in.. They DO in fact read the politics... and more than not are glad that some have the "stuff" it takes to bring up ( what a few of you consider negative) issues and concerns about things that go on within out county and government. )
So .......... no one is "killing" this forum and threads... Its as usual with anything.. if there is disagreement.. then only one side is happy at t a time.. and the happy side is that with which you agree.. :)
Angie, I decided some time ago that I would not engage in anything posted on the politics section of the forum. I do read it if I see something that looks promising or interesting. But, being an "out-of-towner", I can't comment on local issues and won't. I have mentioned before about wondering how a group of people living all together in one place and who basically know each other, more or less, can be so insensitive. But, as Teresa says, there are always two sides and you are either going to agree or disagree. I think it would be a better section if someone were to say-----"I disagree with your idea, opinion, thought, etc., but I recognize your right to say it" rather than, "You are an idiot or a communist or real goofball for saying what you said."
This is a big forum with a wide variety of topics to read and comment on. I would rather enjoy the really good and interesting parts of the forum than read all the negative comments in Politics.
Larryj (why am I posting in Politics when I said I wouldn't?)
Larry, because you are a good and wise man and being so, cannot keep silent about something that you think needs to be done in a better way. I always read anything you have posted.
Quote from: Teresa on June 01, 2011, 08:53:14 AM
Since I am the only one with "real" access to who does and doesn't read the forum and how many unique hits we have in here..
I truely appreciate your Candor. Thank you, thank you.
Have you called the Attorney General yet?
Quote from: Wilma on June 01, 2011, 06:49:21 PM
Have you called the Attorney General yet?
Why your sudden obsession with the attorney general? This is about public opinion and politics.
and the attorney general is not the one to call....did you and your members move my post??? if ,and I say IF there is impropriety, not acrime...you contact the KCCA (Kansas County Comissioners Association). They are the governing body for the county comissiioners as to ethics violations....wow, like talking to a brick wall.
DUCK
You are right, duck. I hadn't heard of them. And since all the bad comments on the post are not producing results, it is time to turn it over to the proper authorities.
Quote from: Wilma on June 02, 2011, 06:40:01 AM
You are right, duck. I hadn't heard of them. And since all the bad comments on the post are not producing results, it is time to turn it over to the proper authorities.
Are you volunteering?
I believe the rest of us taxpaying citizens are trying to engage them in a real conversation, not a facilitator controlled conversation.
Ross, have you picked up the phone and talked to Liz? Made an appointment to see her? Surely you bump into her and others you feel are the leaders...Have you asked your questions then? E-mail ? Bill Boards? (Just kidding on that last one.) Are you planning to run against her in her next election? Are factions being created? For what good in the end?
Quote from: Diane Amberg on June 02, 2011, 09:13:29 AM
Are factions being created? For what good in the end?
If any faction is created that stands for real transparency (as opposed to Obama transparency), integrity, sound fiscal policy and stands against tactics that are shown to obscure truth and undermine the democratic processes of the republic, then I'm all for it. In their day, the founders of this country were a faction. What was their good end?
Quote from: Diane Amberg on June 02, 2011, 09:13:29 AM
Ross, have you picked up the phone and talked to Liz? Made an appointment to see her? Surely you bump into her and others you feel are the leaders...Have you asked your questions then? E-mail ? Bill Boards? (Just kidding on that last one.) Are you planning to run against her in her next election? Are factions being created? For what good in the end?
When I spoke with the County Commissioners it was
sort of like being attacked by two out of three of them. Call Liz at home or at her work and be accused of stalking, again I don't think so. Would I meet with her, again no. Would I use the Public Forum that Elk Konnected, LLC said they would use to the fullest. YES! Why? Because everyone would witness and learn the samethings I would. And everyone else could ask questions as well. Without a facilitator to manipulate the conversation.
No, no I don't think I would want to run for office. I'm no politician. I lack tact and diplomacy, I don't kiss @ss, I tell it like it is.
For example, if you were to ask me if I like you and I really didn't like you, I tell you and probably tell you why. I have been acused of being bluntly honest. And that has got me into trouble a few times. No I just would not make a good politician.
And I don't know enough people to know of anyone who would run for county commissioner. But I think you have an excellent idea.
Awwwwwwwwwwwww Wilma, you"re just saying that cuz we're related, distantly and by marriage, but thank you. :-[ :-*
Larryj
No, I'm not, Larry. What you post makes sense.
Ross, you are right about one thing. You do lack tact and diplomacy. You might also lack common sense. You may be using the forum to the fullest, but you are not producing any results. Why don't you just turn your suspicions over to the proper authorities? After all, that is why they are being paid with our taxpayer dollars. You are wasting tax money.
Ross isn't wasting tax money. How could he? All he's got invested is some typing on the computer and attending a meeting or two and nothing to show for it, except for people not liking him and badmouthing him at every turn. I've met Ross and it was a great pleasure to do so! He's a really good guy, very smart and witty. He's been thinking out of the box and that's what people don't like. It's either their way or the highway. No one learns from that! I for one am guilty of not paying close enough attention to what goes on with the commissioners or this EK deal. I try to keep up with what's going on in my own town and keep that in line. Most people over here have always felt like this area is the "redheaded stepchild" of Elk County anyway, so I'm sure I'm not the only one who hasn't been paying attention. So these threads on Elk Connected have been eye opening to say the least. I've also read every one of L.Hendricks' posts, so please don't tell me to go back and look. When you have questions, they should be answered. People shouldn't be degraded just because they dared ask questions! That's what's wrong with this country today!---Jennifer L. Walker
Quote from: Wilma on June 02, 2011, 03:21:13 PM
You may be using the forum to the fullest, but you are not producing any results.
You might be surprised.
Quote from: Wilma on June 02, 2011, 03:21:13 PM
Why don't you just turn your suspicions over to the proper authorities?.
You mean the taxpayers and voters aren't? Government's great, isn't it? The answer to everything. Not.
Quote from: Wilma on June 02, 2011, 03:21:13 PM
You are wasting tax money.
By not spending it? Now there's a perversion of fact. Did you vote for FDR? Then again, do you like the idea of being manipulated by a trained professional?
Quote from: Wilma on June 02, 2011, 03:21:13 PM
No, I'm not, Larry. What you post makes sense.
Ross, you are right about one thing. You do lack tact and diplomacy. You might also lack common sense. You may be using the forum to the fullest, but you are not producing any results. Why don't you just turn your suspicions over to the proper authorities? After all, that is why they are being paid with our taxpayer dollars. You are wasting tax money.
Elk Konnected said they would use the forun to the fullest, I am just trying to oblige them. I said they said they were going to use this forum to the fullest.
Warning, another boring message coming up. Ross, I was just chewing on something you said earlier, and I think on another thread. Now I know this isn't quite the same, but here's my take on something you said, and about how you feel you were treated at an EK meeting.
If I was in Dover at the State Fire training Center and I was teaching an EMT or Industrial First Responder class, I assume the role as leader, facilitator, instructor, boss, whatever you want to call it, from the start. I am respected in that position and expect to be deferred to when it comes to session management. I decide when to call role, when breaks will be taken, etc. Usually we will have a room consensus on some things, like a 30 minute lunch and get out 30 minutes early or take the usual hour lunch and get out at the usual time, or skip the afternoon break and get out even earlier. It doesn't matter to me either way. The class chooses and you can guess how they generally decide.
Now, if someone walked into the room, or had been hanging around the back,and came up to me just at the start of class, who I didn't know, and asked to speak to me, I would have asked him to step out in the hall with me to see, privately, what was up. If he turned and said he wanted to speak to the group before we started I would have stopped it. There would have been no way I would have allowed that without speaking to him out in the hallway first. My room, my rules. That would have set me into a very protective mode and would have made me very suspicious as to what was afoot. Usually if something happens ,one of the Senior Program Managers or someone from the office shows up at the door to give me a finger wiggle to come get a message. Usually someone needs to call home for an emergency or some such. Groups are usually 40 or so but may be as many as 200. If the person had, after speaking to me, had a legitimate reason,in my estimation, to talk to the group, then yes, I would have allowed it. Or perhaps I would have asked them to wait until a class break if they were still going to be in the building or in my classroom. But I am in charge and it stays that way ,especially if we are having a group discussion. Nobody, but nobody, walks in and takes over my class. I am too protective of my students to allow that to happen. I have been known, on rare occasions, to ask people to leave who are making others uncomfortable, are being uncooperative or are messing with the group dynamic or a practice session.
Now I do have a question and then I'll leave this alone again, at least for awhile. It is true, I'm not there. I do support the county in small ways but I guess that doesn't count.
Do any of you have any proof of wrong doing by E K or E K LLC? Or are you being lead by suspicion alone? Just curious.
Diane,
You did read & understand the outside articles that started this thread, right?
Quote from: Diane Amberg on June 03, 2011, 11:29:45 AM
If I was in Dover at the State Fire training Center and I was teaching an EMT or Industrial First Responder class,
Apples and Oranges. Thats teaching. Elk Konnected advertised a Community Conversation.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on June 03, 2011, 11:29:45 AM
Now, if someone walked into the room, or had been hanging around the back,and came up to me just at the start of class, who I didn't know, and asked to speak to me, I would have asked him to step out in the hall with me to see, privately, what was up.
I wasn't hanging around, I was invited in for a community conversation. This is suppose to be a community organization and should have no secrets and have to speak behind the community's back or behind closed doors. I was not disruptive but again very polite when I addressed the man from that outher county running our county conversation. And he too was polite too. He lifted his microphone to his mouth and politely asked where the sheriff was. I then politely walked away and met the deputies on the way out. Nice guys our deputies.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on June 03, 2011, 11:29:45 AM
Do any of you have any proof of wrong doing by E K or E K LLC? Or are you being lead by suspicion alone? Just curious.
I have simply asked who the registered members are? And I get a lot of smoke blown at me. Why are they hiding?
Do you know who the registered members of Elk Konnected are?
Quote from: kshillbillys on June 02, 2011, 04:37:21 PM
Ross isn't wasting tax money. How could he? All he's got invested is some typing on the computer and attending a meeting or two and nothing to show for it, except for people not liking him and badmouthing him at every turn. I've met Ross and it was a great pleasure to do so! He's a really good guy, very smart and witty. He's been thinking out of the box and that's what people don't like. It's either their way or the highway. No one learns from that! I for one am guilty of not paying close enough attention to what goes on with the commissioners or this EK deal. I try to keep up with what's going on in my own town and keep that in line. Most people over here have always felt like this area is the "redheaded stepchild" of Elk County anyway, so I'm sure I'm not the only one who hasn't been paying attention. So these threads on Elk Connected have been eye opening to say the least. I've also read every one of L.Hendricks' posts, so please don't tell me to go back and look. When you have questions, they should be answered. People shouldn't be degraded just because they dared ask questions! That's what's wrong with this country today!---Jennifer L. Walker
Wow! There is a lot of bad attitude in all of this. And as pillars of the community as someone called them Elk Konnected in MHO takes the cake. They openly said because of one little community in this county refusing to use county wide refuse they had to do something.
At the county commissioners Liz Hendricks said they didn't mean to be bashing Elk Falls, and I told her they did just the same. And I believe the remark is still out there for all the world to read. Elk konnected claims to want to promote pride in need the county but lacks the pride to be decent. The only thing I see them promoting is themselves with a slogan like "Watch Us Grow", not something like watch "Watch Elk County Grow" It is self centered. And I believe centered in Howard. And I believe that's why the won't divulge who they are.
As I have said many times all these little communities are exceptional and I enjoy visiting them and their festivities and parades.
These little communities are each unique and that is what makes Elk County special.
Sure did Ross. Here I was reacting to something I thought of when reading other people's comments about some of the things on this thread. As far as the Delphi Technique and all that, I knew about those already. Any person, group or "side" can try to use that stuff whether for good or bad. When it comes off the written page and goes into action is when the rubber meets the road. The "manipulators" and the self appointed "antagonists" really do not have the ability to judge other people's reactions and that goes both ways. It's one thing to write about procedures for getting your way and give people a recipe, both for and against ,but another entirely to try to accomplish those goals. If people who go to a meeting decide it wasn't as they thought it would be they can simply leave. I've done it myself. But not everyone has the personality to meekly let someone try to take over or redirect a meeting.Ya bump into someone from the "other side" who gets pissed ,ya might wind up out the door on your nose! Now, who is who? It depends on who set up and advertised the meeting as to who is the leader and who is the antagonizer. Sometimes people are almost violently opposed to each other on one issue and yet are stalwart companions on another. Also,I thought you said rather than take seats as most did, you and some others sat on the edge of the stage. Did I get that wrong? Might ask why you didn't just take a seat after having signed in on a card as most others did? Were you already concerned about being a sheeple? I know that sounds smart alec and I don't mean to be, but it just seems so oppositionist from the outset. Did you ask to speak to the group just before the meeting got started or not?
Quote from: Diane Amberg on June 03, 2011, 01:30:29 PM
Sure did Ross. Here I was reacting to something I thought of when reading other people's comments about some of the things on this thread. As far as the Delphi Technique and all that, I knew about those already. Any person, group or "side" can try to use that stuff whether for good or bad. When it comes off the written page and goes into action is when the rubber meets the road. The "manipulators" and the self appointed "antagonists" really do not have the ability to judge other people's reactions and that goes both ways. It's one thing to write about procedures for getting your way and give people a recipe, both for and against ,but another entirely to try to accomplish those goals. If people who go to a meeting decide it wasn't as they thought it would be can simply leave. I've done it myself. But not everyone has the personality to meekly let someone try to take over or redirect a meeting.Ya bump into someone from the "other side" who gets pissed ,ya might wind up out the door on your nose! Now, who is who? It depends on who set up and advertised the meeting as to who is the leader and who is the antagonizer. Sometimes people are almost violently opposed to each other on one issue and yet are stalwart companions on another.
This was a newspaper article not an advertisement and it was called a Community Conversation not as a meeting. And it was not a meeting nor was it a community conversation. It was a highly controlled and manipulated circus. Sit in this ring, now move to this ring. etc. I truefully don't believe it was designed to accomplish anything more than to qualify for what the little company they hired call his accredation. They needed one more control session to qualify for it. And that accredation isn't worth anything more than a crackerjack box toy. But again something like that can be misrepresented. Look at their list posted at http://www.cascity.com/howard/forum/index.php?topic=11780.new;topicseen#new 99% of the suggestions had nothing to do with the County Government. It appears they are attempting to redirect County Government money to the City of Howard. IMHO.
I am going to unsubscribe to this thread and stick with just one. It ha been a pleasure visiting with you Diane.
Thank goodness. I will believe it when I see it.