How can you preach smaller government but then totally dismiss elimination of multiple levels of govt?
Small city councils in every area have small constituency, small budgets, and large issues. Aging infrastucture water lines, sewer pipes, sidewalks, streets require large $$$ Capitol. Every town needs expensive repairs and deferred improvements. Currently we have one county commissioner for about 1000 citizens. Why not have five or seven member districts incorporating areas including each of the incorporated areas. That is 600 or 428 citizens per representative. Other areas of the state have found millions in savings by sharing resources. Why should we have police and sheriff officers doing the same thing? Why have city and rural fire budgets? In times of emergency aren't the lines blurred any way. Don't city trucks respond to rural structure fires and vice-versa. Why do we need 6 city clerks? Six mayors with six different councils to answer the same questions to the same citizens. We used to have separate township road maintenance but now have countywide/three district. The same equipment used by the cities is used by the county. Sharing high dollar equipment costs with the entire county would allow greater leverage when leasing or purchasing. Keeping equipment working on the job rather than sitting idle while the operators are let's say reading water meters would improve the city systems with less down time and loss of service.
If one unified govt. doesn't work then why is NASCAR, Legends area and Shliterbaum thriving in the KC area.
One district office for the FSA, SSA, SRS, and district courts are the norm because of costs. One bi-county extension service has been here for years.
Downsizing is a fact of a depressed economy. Why not make the local govt. the part of govt we citizens of elk county have control,more efficient. What is saving money if not making the best use of what you have available.
Why is having a local fair,grounds for public funding. Both fairs Howard and Longton receive local tax dollars every other year and always have. The 4-h fair alternates between the two fairs. 4-h the bastion of evil with it structured meetings, ancient symbology, communist manifestos, day camps, trying to through a strict meeting using Roberts rules of order, shape the poor less fortunate rural members of the country. Showing of cloven hooved beasts in public just to see how much rate of gain their parents can funnel through a slick deal with a local feed prover. The county fair has lived out it's usefulness. Declining attendence, events,exhibitors, have shrank both fairs from almost a week long event to a day or two. Yet the funding has remained. Shouldn't every event in the county have a chance for local$$$$. Octoberfest, crazy days, elk river festival, day on the green, why not fund something progressive instead of regressive? County fairs are companies that receive tax dollars for their operation. The charter members bought in to the company. I have not received a list of their owners, states of incorporation, purpose, or bra size. I trust they have all their ducks in a row. They have only been using tax dollars to function for decades so maybe this will be the year of the profitability. The reason I bring this up is as stated in many rants you have to be accountable for the tax money you get. It matters not what good or bad you do with it or how long ago it started, who wrote the first check?
How can you have it both ways?
We had a school in every 6th mile. We went to one in every town. We went to one in the centers of the area. You want lower taxes consolidate to one school. That won't work because of the logistics of getting students from one side of the county to the other. Why not just consolidate the administration. That is the most expensive part. Larger schools with multiple campus have one super with multiple building administrators. Why not consolidate the administration as we share the special education. Why pay three timesforwhat is essentially the same same duties that two or three people do. One transportation budget. Sedan is just as far away from the other towns in the area. Why not combine administration, transportation, and logistics. Food service is a dynamic and expensive endevor. Why reinvent the wheel. Plan meals for 1000 for less money than we do now three times paying three different people. We have been managing all three of these schools special education with one administrator for years. Why not the rest of the student education?
Patrick, some folks may talk out of both sides of their mouth, but I do suggest my friend that you are talking out of your hat. ::)
Quote from: ADP on May 05, 2011, 09:56:10 PM
How can you preach smaller government but then totally dismiss elimination of multiple levels of govt?
I'm thinking that most folks see smaller government as meaning less intrusive government. Consolidation as you describe it doesn't necessarily reduce the scope, reach and intrusion of government into the lives of citizens. It only increases the chances of concentrating those powers into fewer hands. How much power would you like to have in the hands of a few? And what few would you suggest retain those powers?
Quote from: Patriot on May 06, 2011, 08:20:34 PM
I'm thinking that most folks see smaller government as meaning less intrusive government. Consolidation as you describe it doesn't necessarily reduce the scope, reach and intrusion of government into the lives of citizens. It only increases the chances of concentrating those powers into fewer hands. How much power would you like to have in the hands of a few? And what few would you suggest retain those powers?
Again you are doing it again you can't have small government without lowering the cost to the tax payer with out reducing the govt scope. You sound like you want to pick and choose where govt should spend tax money. Then you should run for office. Sit on a budget hearing and propose a better system. Kansas legislature allows for one unified govt. If it would cost less and lower my taxes I would gladly propose such a system. Lower the budget lower the scope of government intrusion.
How is going from three commissioners to seven commissioners putting more power in fewer hands?
Why not reduce the budget by any means necessary?
What is wrong with leaving the power of county government to county government. If you don't like the govt vote them out in the next election. That would mean that someone would have to be on the ballot. You have to actually put a name on the form to run for office. Not an alias. Or you could leave the ballot blank like the city Moline did in the last school board election. Then you and five others could write-in a name, we could put them in a hat and boom you are elected.
Quote from: ADP on May 06, 2011, 08:56:39 PM
Why not reduce the budget by any means necessary?
Why not use a rifle instead of a scatter gun. How about identifying duplicity, excess spending or waste fraud and abuse in the existing structure first? Or are we going to hear that there are no areas in the existing county government where improvements are needed. Heck, I was told one of our commissioners didn't think a county lease was a debt (liability) and that the clerk couldn't even recite the current county debt at a recent commission meeting. If we can't even be sure of where we are now, how could an analysis of the 'savings' under your proposal ever be accurate? Why just jump off onto another road? When the current structure has been thoroughly scrubbed, then study and consider the feasibility of sweeping changes. I'm thinking Six was right.
Duplicity: Three county yards, three districts, three crews dispached.
Excess spending: $3000 to keep the elevator door from closing on you. Air conditioning and heat system for the jail. Enhanced 911 that has the wrong road names published. Computer service and telephone service contracts that are excessive and extremely antiquated.
Lack of funding to enforce delinquent taxes are paid.
If the road has no base than no matter how much new material you add the base won't hold up.
Building new is easier, faster, more efficient, wiser use of tax dollars. Just like remodeling, the more you do the more you need to do until you have replaced the entire thing.
Quote from: ADP on May 06, 2011, 10:10:45 PM
Duplicity: Three county yards, three districts, three crews dispached.
Excess spending: $3000 to keep the elevator door from closing on you. Air conditioning and heat system for the jail. Enhanced 911 that has the wrong road names published. Computer service and telephone service contracts that are excessive and extremely antiquated.
Lack of funding to enforce delinquent taxes are paid.
If the road has no base than no matter how much new material you add the base won't hold up.
Building new is easier, faster, more efficient, wiser use of tax dollars. Just like remodeling, the more you do the more you need to do until you have replaced the entire thing.
And when the existing county management (some of whom have been in place for several years) gets serious about fixing these and other problems, maybe then a major restructuring could be discussed intelligently. Changing structure doesn't necessarily fix existing foolishness or failure.
In all the time that this "acorn" like organization has been wasting tax payer money what have you and the anti-ek done? If everything was all peachy an self sufficient then the attendance at any elk konnected event would be zero. I challenge you to say one thing positive that you have selfishly done for our three thousand tax paying citizens. What kid have you inspired? What play did you take the students to? How many people of opposing views have you hosted in public? You have stated that elk konnected has done nothing that elk county citizens couldn't have done with out outside influence. So what have you done?
Quote from: ADP on May 06, 2011, 10:36:13 PM
In all the time that this "acorn" like organization has been wasting tax payer money what have you and the anti-ek done? If everything was all peachy an self sufficient then the attendance at any elk konnected event would be zero. I challenge you to say one thing positive that you have selfishly done for our three thousand tax paying citizens. What kid have you inspired? What play did you take the students to? How many people of opposing views have you hosted in public? You have stated that elk konnected has done nothing that elk county citizens couldn't have done with out outside influence. So what have you done?
So now this discussion is about Elk Konnected and not government restructuring? Was that a Freudian slip, or is it a lack of meds that causes you to bounce so seamlessly from one theme to another like that? You equate the two (EK & govt)? Interesting. And tends to prove the point Ross made about EK being all about control.
Selfishly done? Don't you mean selflessly? Sheesh. Your Alinsky skills are even weaker than some others around here.
Ultimately, I don't need the approval of a picayune peon like you regarding any selfless act I may have undertaken. Though to salve some of your unique nosiness into the private affairs of private citizens, I'll answer thus: I've contributed substantially to the financial well being of three unemployed individuals who have children and one under employed person in just the last 12 days. Over the last winter, I provided free feed for the livestock needs of a two families in need of such. There's 2, or is that 6 things? As to what other charitable acts in which I may have engaged, and there are several, additional information is frankly none of your damned business.
Now, here's my challenge to you. Try to answer any of the questions posed on this forum regarding matters of public interest surrounding Elk Konnected, LLC and its' relationship with local government without the tap dance? Or is that above your pay grade?
I thought I titled it talking out of both sides of your mouth. But you are more worried about syntax that content.
You want to make the decisions for a government entity then run for office. If you to complain about the integrity of someone else then go right ahead.
Quote from: Patriot link=topic=11829.msg161570#msg161570 date=
Ultimately, I don't need the approval of a picayune peon like you regarding any selfless act I may ...
/quote]Now there is the thought for the day. So I will ask you the same question.
So if an organized group of people want help children, improve the communication between the county towns, improve health of it's citizenry, and clean up dangerous structures then they are bad but if they would have provided help to underemployed and unemployed they are doing good.
Can you provide a list of names of the people you helped, and especially a list of others that help also. "people don't donate with out getting something from it" Did you get a receipt? Are you going to put it in the old 1040 so you don't get taxed on that. Or was that a corporate donation. Were you acting as an individual or was it as one of the corporate entities you created as a tax shelter? Maybe you just provided assistance just to use it as power over others. Where did the funds you used come from? You haven't received any disaster assistance or the feed didn't come from a tract of land under the conservation reserve program,highly erodible land, or ever been on property using Eqip funds to maintain? Where did you come from? Did someone from here recommend that you use that to help others or did you get advise from someone from out of the area?
You stated it is not the good things that you do that are in question it is the fact that you will not answer all questions asked quickly.
That is talking out of both sides of your mouth.
Talking out of both sides of your mouth.
Why does you freedom to speak or not speak supersede mine?
This all has a common theme.
I have no need to run for public office. My interest is as a voter & taxpayer in the integrity of those already elected. It isn;t always about having sat on some committee or attended some function. Sometimes it's about the accountability of those public officials/employees already on the job.
I've never complained about the charitable acts of EK. Sorry you've missed the point by so far in all the recent posts by myself and others. It's apparent that you choose to keep missing it. It's also clear that you would rather argue back and forth rather than answer direct questions directly.
Again, you make this all about me and my private acts. What I've done will have no tax consequences either way nor did I receive any personal benefit. Any corporate entities I may be involved with aren't taking taxpayer dollars nor are they operating in ways that could use elected office to provide personal benefit to either myself or my family. As for the names of those I have helped... you really don't understand the concept of privacy rights, do you. You would ask me to identify others publicly? Nuts. You want so badly to make this EK stuff about me or others who ask valid questions... sorry, it doesn't work that way.
Neither is this about your free speech or mine. Catch a clue. The fact remains EK receives taxpayer funds, its' admitted membership hides behind the veil of an LLC, and it has intimite links with elected officials. Sadly, you don't have enough sophistication to grasp the concepts involved either at a business or legal level. So keep being the spokesperson, you're doing a fine job of carrying on the propaganda.
EK receives taxpayer funds as do other organizations in the county. Why should they be denied what is being granted to others, sometimes simply to help out in having a good time. At least EK is trying to find something that will benefit the whole county.
Is your criticism because at least one of our county commissioners is an admitted EKLLC member? I see no conflict of interest here as said commissioner is not benefiting from any funds granted to EKLLC. How, in a county this size are you going to find enough members that are not intimately linked with county commissioners to form a workable organization. Haven't you hear? Everyone in Elk County is related in some way to everyone else.
Groups and Organizations ought not to be receiving any gov't funds. If you want a group or organization to have money, then you ought to contribute your own money to your most worthy charitable operation, but don't compel others by taxing them to contribute thru the government.
This country was established for individual liberties and individual property rights, not for the power and influence of
groups, corporations and organizations nor for them to gather money by and thru the force of government.
Wilma, you seem to be advocating that the government take from people to give to your favorite groups that you think are worthy. Our country was established to keep that from happening. It's no wonder that things are a big mess in this country and yet most of you all are for promoting and creating more of the same ole stuff that is contrary to the Cause of our founding fathers.
Perhaps the county commisision et al needs a real civics lesson because the public schooling has not taught it right in years.
What I am saying is that different organizations in Elk County ask the commissioners for money to help with their activities. This money is budgeted for just this purpose. If you don't like it, take it up with the county. I am just the messenger.
Quote from: ADP on May 05, 2011, 09:56:10 PM
How can you preach smaller government but then totally dismiss elimination of multiple levels of govt?
Small city councils in every area have small constituency, small budgets, and large issues.
So lets cut to the chase. No more double talk, No more talking out both sides of you mouth.
You just want to overthrow the city governments.
Take control.
Move all control to Howard.
I have been told by the old guard that Elk Konnected, LLC puts down that, that idea has been around for a very long time.
Let's get rid of the old guard and in with the new.
Let's get rid of the constitution while we are at it.
Perhaps it would be just as good an idea over throw all county governments and move Government control of all of Kansas to Topeka.
Why think small and have all those government seats, really cut the cost of government. How far can overthrow of government go.
If you really wanted to help these other communities you would help them apply for and get the federal government community grants, block grants, etc. You would suggest using some of the (maybe) money from the wind farm be given by the county to assist the communities with matching grant funds. You would not advocate over throwing their governing bodies and taking away their rights to govern themselves.
Each and everone ot these little cities has it's own unique personalities and that sir is what makes America GREAT.
Now, I suppose you will start another thread to boost Elk Konnected, LLC' agenda in some other way.
Grants? Abolishing the city governments or awarding them Federal grants - it's the same thing.
Wilma, other than you being a messenger, do you support governental expenditures to fund folks' activities?
Though the ability to understand such things evades some of our fine citizens, both Ross & red make well thought out points. Inch by inch. When some people end up well monied, the gamel becomes ever increasing power over other peoples lives.
There are many wealthy socialists in this country ready and willing to further their social causes and they're either Democrats or Republicans.
Quote from: redcliffsw on May 08, 2011, 07:11:50 AM
There are many wealthy socialists in this country ready and willing to further their social causes and they're either Democrats or Republicans.
You'll get no argument from me on that observation. And the bitter root of the social progressives runs deep... even to the smallest communities. "Come, let the people unite and worship at the alter of government, for government shall make all the people equal and their needs shall be filled by us. For who, but government, masked or unmasked, can best know the needs of the masses."
Sounds like a religion, no? Never mind the true nature of what's behind the curtain.
At what price? What must be sacrificed at that alter in order to be blessed and cared for by the socialist leadership? Individual Liberty! Socialism is clearly known to be only a stepping stone away from capitalism enroute to what becomes Communism (or other totalitarian mess). Just ask those who lived in the Soviet empire after the 'workers united'.. Or those who followed the National Socialist Workers Party in Europe in the 1930s.
Communities Unite!
Quote from: ADP on May 06, 2011, 10:36:13 PM
In all the time that this "acorn" like organization has been wasting tax payer money what have you and the anti-ek done? If everything was all peachy an self sufficient then the attendance at any elk konnected event would be zero. I challenge you to say one thing positive that you have selfishly done for our three thousand tax paying citizens. What kid have you inspired? What play did you take the students to? How many people of opposing views have you hosted in public? You have stated that elk konnected has done nothing that elk county citizens couldn't have done with out outside influence. So what have you done?
You said, " I challenge you to say one thing positive that you have selfishly done for our three thousand tax paying citizens." I challenge you to the same challenge. Name one thing that Elk Konnected has done for all 3,000 taxpayers. Truefullu I don't believe there are 3.000 taxpayers in Elk County since there are probably less than 3,000 men, women and children in the county.
Quote from: ADP on May 05, 2011, 09:56:10 PM
How can you preach smaller government but then totally dismiss elimination of multiple levels of govt?
Small city councils in every area have small constituency, small budgets, and large issues. Aging infrastucture water lines, sewer pipes, sidewalks, streets require large $$$ Capitol. Every town needs expensive repairs and deferred improvements. Currently we have one county commissioner for about 1000 citizens. Why not have five or seven member districts incorporating areas including each of the incorporated areas. That is 600 or 428 citizens per representative. Other areas of the state have found millions in savings by sharing resources. Why should we have police and sheriff officers doing the same thing? Why have city and rural fire budgets? In times of emergency aren't the lines blurred any way. Don't city trucks respond to rural structure fires and vice-versa. Why do we need 6 city clerks? Six mayors with six different councils to answer the same questions to the same citizens. We used to have separate township road maintenance but now have countywide/three district. The same equipment used by the cities is used by the county. Sharing high dollar equipment costs with the entire county would allow greater leverage when leasing or purchasing. Keeping equipment working on the job rather than sitting idle while the operators are let's say reading water meters would improve the city systems with less down time and loss of service.
If one unified govt. doesn't work then why is NASCAR, Legends area and Shliterbaum thriving in the KC area.
One district office for the FSA, SSA, SRS, and district courts are the norm because of costs. One bi-county extension service has been here for years.
Downsizing is a fact of a depressed economy. Why not make the local govt. the part of govt we citizens of elk county have control,more efficient. What is saving money if not making the best use of what you have available.
Why is having a local fair,grounds for public funding. Both fairs Howard and Longton receive local tax dollars every other year and always have. The 4-h fair alternates between the two fairs. 4-h the bastion of evil with it structured meetings, ancient symbology, communist manifestos, day camps, trying to through a strict meeting using Roberts rules of order, shape the poor less fortunate rural members of the country. Showing of cloven hooved beasts in public just to see how much rate of gain their parents can funnel through a slick deal with a local feed prover. The county fair has lived out it's usefulness. Declining attendence, events,exhibitors, have shrank both fairs from almost a week long event to a day or two. Yet the funding has remained. Shouldn't every event in the county have a chance for local$$$$. Octoberfest, crazy days, elk river festival, day on the green, why not fund something progressive instead of regressive? County fairs are companies that receive tax dollars for their operation. The charter members bought in to the company. I have not received a list of their owners, states of incorporation, purpose, or bra size. I trust they have all their ducks in a row. They have only been using tax dollars to function for decades so maybe this will be the year of the profitability. The reason I bring this up is as stated in many rants you have to be accountable for the tax money you get. It matters not what good or bad you do with it or how long ago it started, who wrote the first check?
You said, " Both fairs Howard and Longton receive local tax dollars every other year and always have." So why don't you use your influence in Howard use Elk Konnected, LLC and shut down the Howard fair. Leave Longton alone, that's their business.