On the afternoon of Friday last, some subscribers to the Elk County reverse notification system may have been treated to as many as three back to back calls advising that the ElkKonnected soccer game scheduled for Saturday had been canceled. So much for an official emergency notification system. After grabbing a prominent presence on an official government website (which was quickly removed when the inappropriate use was made public at the recent commission meeting) we now have ElkKonnected hijacking a service designed to notify community members about major incidents, fire hazards, dangerous weather events, major road closings/emergencies, etc. A canceled ball game? Just who the heck is running this circus? Everyday it seems we discover another intrusion into government affairs by this privately owned 'community organization' racket. What is it about using government resources for private promotion that passes the smell test in this county?
Arrogant, self-aggrandizing actions by public servants in the name of 'community good' seem to be becoming an accepted staple around here. If it were isolated, there might be no major problem. But in time, we might see the depth and width of the matter may be greater than suspected. If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck... For now, let's take it one bite (quack) at a time.
I suppose it's no real surprise given the intimate (and likely conflicting) relationships between some elected/appointed county officials and ElkKonnected. Why do we bother with elected government if the management of county affairs is to be so greatly influenced by a private, nonprofit LLC. No biggie, I guess.... voters vote, taxpayers pay, and a private & non-elected group gets new toys and tools. Nope.... no problems there.
Ball games sponsored by a private group...GREAT! Same private group using government resources (especially emergency resources) for their private purposes... WRONG!
Wake up people. You're giving it away. Inch by inch.
There was a hiccup in the system - and I got notified 4 times! :laugh:
I thought soccer was not an emergency situation, so . . .
If the Warning System can be used for that, does that mean it's open to other activities within the community? Other announcements?
Quote from: Mom70x7 on April 18, 2011, 11:12:40 AM
There was a hiccup in the system - and I got notified 4 times! :laugh:
I thought soccer was not an emergency situation, so . . .
If the Warning System can be used for that, does that mean it's open to other activities within the community? Other announcements?
depends on how much money your willing to pay and whos back is scratched the most, and a little bit of nepotism.
Was your reverse system started just for reverse 911? Ours has been around for some years and has always been used for what the city felt was "important", not just emergencies. Some times we get calls on trash day changes too. Does it really matter that much?
Quote from: Mom70x7 on April 18, 2011, 11:12:40 AM
If the Warning System can be used for that, does that mean it's open to other activities within the community? Other announcements?
Four calls?!? Others should be jealous! lol
Other activities...why not? Engagements, birth & death announcements, crop failures, Old MacDonald's cow out, new leaks in the high school roof, high air pollen counts, blue light specials at Batson's, gas price changes at Longton, instant HS football game results, real time notice of winners of the 6th grade spelling bee (we do still have those, right?)
... sounds like a community 'coming together' to me. We'll be the new US civic hot spot in no time. And all thanks to ElkKonnected, LLC and that 6 figure per year Kansas City based community organizing consultant at PublicSquare Comminities, LLC. NOT!
Speaking of PublicSquare, LLC.... did you notice their 4 square 'community' building blocks: 1. Education (government), 2. Human Services (government), 3. Business (private) all brought together by: 4. Government (government). Who says the consultant is a big government Democrat (he is a Dem, for what it's worth)? For that matter, isn't one of the giuding directors at ElkKonnected a Democrat? Nope, no ideology at work here!
Just sayin'
Quote from: Diane Amberg on April 18, 2011, 12:06:05 PM
...always been used for what the city felt was "important", not just emergencies. Does it really matter that much?
Correction.. "for what some self-important city bureaucrat 'felt' was important." Feelings are often deceptive.
And, yes many here believe it
does matter. It's about the
legitimate functions of government. Some folks still recognize that concept out here in flyover country.
With the price of gas, if I had a kid playing soccer and I was going to take the time and money to drive somewhere for a game, I would have appreciated knowing that the game had been canceled. I think they had about 42 kids playing a while back. So, while it wasn't an emergency, I would consider it a considerate thing to do for those families.
And the problem with game organizers/sponsors simply getting on the phone and calling players' homes would be? The rest of the county might not be so excited about the parents' gas savings. Government, and government resources, can not be the cure for everybody's needs & desires.
This isn't about being uncaring or just plain mean. It's about using official government resources for their intended purposes and not for whatever feels good in the moment. This, as with many other things, can serve to be an example of either good or poor management & use of resources. I'm sure this situation seemed the expedient answer to a problem. I'm also sure there were other, private sector answers. Too bad there wasn't any adult supervision around when the challenge arose.
The school has a similar system and it uses it for school events and also other announcements that need to be made. Why not use it for this purpose? If I pay to use it, which I was told it did cost like 1.00 why not be informed of such events in the county that are going on? It only makes sense to me. Not that I don't see your point about the government part of it. But to have to sit and call 40 different parents and take the chance that many don't answer and get the cancelation notice, then have to recall again makes not sense.
I do see that you have a problem with this ELk Konnect group and who runs it. But if you had children you could see that the good that it does for them. To offer a program, like soccer, in which we don't have, is really nice. It gives children a chance to try something different. Also, I like the other things that Elk Konnect does for the kids. I am pretty sure getting children involved in different activities keeps them out of trouble. My girls have about 3 to 4 different events during the week that they go to, plus chores nightly, and homework also. I try to get the involved in the community in a positive way, that way they understand that it is important to give back to the community, also. I am just tired of people coming down on this organization all the time. It is a good organization that gives positive things back to the community. I am pretty sure that there is research out that says that getting kids involved in community organizations keeps them from become trouble makers. This organization not only benefits kids but also the adults. They have started a fitness center here in Howard. I am so glad to have the fitness center, I use it at least 3 to 4 times a week. I for one support Elk Konnected!!!!
Good for you Angie. I watched Elk Konnected from it's very infancy, saw that people were invited to comment and make suggestions and criticisms and enjoyed the enthusiasm that your area has been needing for some time. If I was out there with a young family I'd support them too! It's easy to find fault and verbally beat things to death....they got off their butts and actually did something!
Thank you Angie and Diane for your support of Elk Konnect and the activities and leaders. These people work very hard to make our community a better place to live. I have been very disappointed by all the negativity from a very few. Elk Konnect is about a "positive" purpose. Negativity has no place in this organization. Positive thinking can create opportunities for our community and its citizens. So, please, rise above all the negativity, and work toward good things for our 6 connected cities.
Quote from: mayflower on April 19, 2011, 09:07:28 AM
Thank you Angie and Diane for your support of Elk Konnect and the activities and leaders. These people work very hard to make our community a better place to live. I have been very disappointed by all the negativity from a very few. Elk Konnect is about a "positive" purpose. Negativity has no place in this organization. Positive thinking can create opportunities for our community and its citizens. So, please, rise above all the negativity, and work toward good things for our 6 connected cities.
It has nothing to do with negativity, it does have everything to do with accountability. A private corporation using Government resources is UNETHICAL and is possibly illegal. IF this is such a great thing why doesn't elk konnected buy their own phone system and send out phone calls.
Here is another thought. IF elk konnected can use Government resources, then Churchs should be able to utilize government resources! Wanna bet that won't happen!?? You know separation of Church n State might be a problem there.
Seriously though, if ELK Konnected is such a awesome program, then they can finance their program without using any taxpayer funds. IF it can't survive without taxpayer funds, then its not that great a program.
Lookatmeknow...
I have absolutely no problem with any private group, church, etc. sponsoring wholesome events/activities for kids (I have 2, btw). I agree with you and think that kids need good guidance and interaction in such programs. My problem is with any private group that uses such programs to befriend the public while also advancing the political agenda of the few. All that glitters isn't gold. EK is as much a political action group as it it a social action group. The pattern they have chosen to follow (via Public Square Communities) is a model that looks to government as the glue that holds communities together and sees government/government agencies as the center of community life development. Perhaps in the Communist China model, but not in the Republic that is supposed to be America.
When a select few elitists both influence the government and are the government, there is a conflict. Government should (even at the local level) set about to protect (not provide) the ability of private citizens to enjoy life & pursue individual aspirations. This should be accomplished through the provision and maintenance of basics like fire protection, law enforcement, infrastructure (roads, bridges, flood protection, etc.). When government involves itself too deeply in the daily lives of the citizenry, the will of a few can begin to erode the liberties of the many. History shows that the result is tyranny. Government is neither our parent nor our nanny nor our role model.
While EK may do many good things in the community, it has no business being in bed with government. While EK may offer citizens in different communities the opportunity to improve their respective communities through private endeavor, it has no business influencing government power to accomplish its' purposes. Especially when its' ownership/directorship is held by elected government officials. For example, use of proceeds to the government (voters & taxpayers) from a wind farm (if any) should not be influenced by a private company that is subject to no voter/taxpayer oversight. We elected officials to make those decisions on our behalf. If they are, as one commissioner said publicly, "unwilling to have open hearings because they don't want to listen to the public bellyaching" then perhaps the commissioners are undeserving of the trust we've placed tn them. If elected/appointed officials prefer to enlist, endorse, and even control (by taking offices/directorships/coordinator positions in) the efforts of a private group instead of directly engaging the citizens who elected them, then perhaps they don't have the strength of character necessary to do what they (not their private associations) were elected to do. If one wants their lives to be directed by some committee then there are opportunities galore in China. Either our elected officials desire to carry out their duties in ways that honestly reflect the republic in which we live, or they are free to resign their positions and pursue change in the private sector.
I'm sure many, like yourself, defend ElkKonnected, because EK has some good intentions. Just remember, the road to hell is said to be paved with good intentions. Even Hitler started with the good intentions of restoring Germany's devastated economy. But when the good intentions of a few elitists become entangled with the power of government position and/or excessive influence over government power, the liberty of the citizens can quickly become endangered. We look to limit government, not expand its' influence through close association with privileged & unaccountable private groups. Let EK focus its' efforts on private activities that improve communities, and let government do its' job of being accountable to the citizens it is elected to represent. Let EK procure it's own callback service and leave the government service to the official purposes of government.
Let the citizens hold the reasonable expectation of our elected officials to make wise & unbiased decisions on behalf of the electorate. Let our elected officials choose between representing the interests of all the voters or managing and advancing the goals of a private company, but not both. And let ElkKonnected and our county government remain completely severed and separate forever!
Quote from: Patriot on April 19, 2011, 09:27:15 AM
Government should (even at the local level) set about to protect (not provide) the ability of private citizens to enjoy life & pursue individual aspirations.
That statement reflects the foundation of individual freedom. Every level of government should adhere to that basic principle.
Patriot, so every member of Elk Konnected is up to no good and wouldn't put a stop to "underhanded" dealings if they were found? Are you really that jaded? Now that is sad. You even managed to get Hitler and EK in the same paragraph! I may go throw up! >:(
Quote from: Diane Amberg on April 19, 2011, 11:03:42 AM
Patriot, so every member of Elk Konnected is up to no good and wouldn't put a stop to "underhanded" dealings if they were found? Are you really that jaded? Now that is sad. You even managed to get Hitler and EK in the same paragraph! I may go throw up! >:(
Diane it doesn't matter if ELK Konnected members are evil or good. THey are a private corporation. Not a government entity designed to protect and safeguard our liberties. IN NO WAY should they even be remotely connected.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on April 19, 2011, 11:03:42 AM
Patriot, so every member of Elk Konnected is up to no good and wouldn't put a stop to "underhanded" dealings if they were found? Are you really that jaded? Now that is sad. You even managed to get Hitler and EK in the same paragraph! I may go throw up! >:(
Diane,
For the record....
1. At large (every) member/supporter of EK was never mentioned. The private corporation, its' leadership & government entanglements were. Being jaded has nothing to do with anything (see #4 below).
2. No inappropriate thing can be stopped if no sunshine is brought to bear on it. Facts are important to reasonable folks. Some things are best reviewed & modified or stopped before problems arise. You'll notice no aspersions were cast on the private activities of EK as far as privately endowed activities are concerned. Only on those obvious conflicts of interest where they intersect with government were highlighted.
3. The observations made may reflect the views of many more local citizens than it appears, though you might not know it... living back east and all. Not unlike a recent attempt by a very few to saddle taxpayers with a $5.5 million dollar school bond... much more reasonable and affordable solutions prevailed. Given the current economy, perhaps all the nay saying on that issue was right after all.
4. When it comes to govt (and the intoxication that such power engenders) I'm just as skeptical of government as our founders were. Perhaps even more so seeing what lax attention of the citizenry has wrought at the federal level.
5. If you can't make the conceptual connection between a tyrant with good intentions (Hitler or otherwise) and the potential of tyranny when any government official(s) also lead private organizations (albeit good intentioned ones) that seek to influence the very government that employs them, then the real sadness is that you may lack both abstract reasoning skills & the ability to perceive unintended future consequences. Kinda like unions paying big bucks to get officials elected who then repay with treasury draining contracts & legacy costs under the threat of future campaign defunding. Who woulda thunk? Thank God the framers had better vision.
This is about local ethics and appropriate local government activity. Canaries in a mineshaft can be noisy nuisances at times. When they stop being noisy & no one notices serious problems follow.
Now, thanks for exercising your free speech rights on an issue that doesn't effect you in any way. Go have a good purge. Hope you feel better.
I really don't think that Elk connected is a private corporation.
A privately held company or close corporation is a business company owned either by non-governmental organizations or by a relatively small number of shareholders or company members which does not offer or trade its company stock (shares) to the general public on the stock market exchanges, but rather the company's stock is offered, owned and traded or exchanged privately. Less ambiguous terms for a privately held company are unquoted company and unlisted company.
Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/privately-held-company-1#ixzz1JzsBETDb
I might be wrong, but I don't really think you understand what Elk Konnect is. I am going to look further into this. It is really starting to get to me. I am trying really hard to see everyone's side, but with so much negative comments on EVERY thing that Elk Konnect does, it is hard.
Quote from: Lookatmeknow!! on April 19, 2011, 01:04:29 PM
I really don't think that Elk connected is a private corporation...
...I might be wrong, but I don't really think you understand what Elk Konnect is. I am going to look further into this. It is really starting to get to me. I am trying really hard to see everyone's side, but with so much negative comments on EVERY thing that Elk Konnect does, it is hard.
I currently own two Kansas Corporations and have started at least 5 others in this state. I think I might know what a corporation
(or its' near sister the Limited Liability Company) is. Being a "C" or "S" corporation or a Limited Liability Company are remarkably similar in legal structure. The biggest differences being tax treatment and requirements by the IRS. Electing to be a close (or closely held) corporation, an authorized farm corporation or a family farm corporation, etc. are merely sub-forms of corporations that have differing abilities regarding type of business in which engaged or abilities to make stock offerings etc.
To make it clear, here is the official record for Elk Konnected from the KS Secretary of State showing that EK is organized under Kansas law as a Limited Liability Company (LLC) in accordance with the Kansas Corporation Code. They are a private company (corporation) owned and managed by individual owners/stockholders. They have a board of directors and undoubtedly internally elected officers (president, secretary, treasurer, etc.).
From the Kansas Business Entity Database managed by the Kansas Secretary of State (as of today at @ 2:35PM central time):
Business Entity Search
Date: 04/19/2011
Business Information
Current Entity Name Business Entity ID Number
ELK KONNECTED LLC 6368807
Current Mailing Address: 1425 Mule, HOWARD, KS 67349
Business Entity Type: KANSAS LTD LIABILITY COMPANY
Date of Formation in Kansas: 09/30/2009
State of Organization: KS
Current Status: ACTIVE AND IN GOOD STANDING
Resident Agent and Registered Office
Resident Agent: RICHARD L FISH
Registered Office: 1425 Mule, HOWARD, KS 67349
Annual Reports
The following annual report information is valid for active and delinquent status entities only.
Tax Closing Month: 12
The Last Annual Report on File: 00/0000
Next Annual Report Due: 04/15/2011
Forfeiture Date: 07/15/2011
Visit for yourself at : https://www.accesskansas.org/bess/flow/main?execution=e1s3 (https://www.accesskansas.org/bess/flow/main?execution=e1s3)
The major crux of the issue in these posts is that an elected county commissioner (and possibly other county employee(s)) is/are official(s) (possibly stockholder(s), we don't know) with EK
and EK seeks to lobby/influence the county commission and/or is/has been using county resources (website/emergency notification system) for its' private purposes/promotion. Moreover, that same commissioner and/or their close family stand to profit from the advancement of a wind farm project that EK has aggressively supported (or wishes to influence the use of county proceeds received therefrom). Some believe that creates undue influence and reeks of a conflict of interests. That is not opposition to a wind farm. It is opposition to an unholy co-mingling of public/private interests/activities/resources with official government duties/resources. Being privately owned, many of Elk Konnected's internal details are hidden from public view by those who might support them (monitarily, voluntarily or otherwise). Their internal structure, ownership, meetings, agenda, methods, etc. are not subject to the public scrutiny required of government.
Hope that clears up some of your confusion. Hopefully you can now see more clearly what Elk Konnected is or is not (at least apart from its' youth programs, exercise centers, etc.).
Patriot,
Would you be as vehemently opposed to Elk Konnected if they had organized as a county-wide 'Chamber of Commerce' or 'Economic Development Corporation', which given the lack of either in Elk County, Elk Konnected is acting the role of?
Charles M. Durbin
A non-resident Elk County property owner and taxpayer.
Quote from: flintauqua on April 19, 2011, 03:27:32 PM
Would you be as vehemently opposed to Elk Konnected if they had organized as a county-wide 'Chamber of Commerce' or 'Economic Development Corporation', which given the lack of either in Elk County, Elk Konnected is acting the role of?
Mr. Durbin,
The pretext of your question misses my point. I'm not opposed to Elk Konnected based on its' organizational form. I'm not opposed to it because of its' stated mission(s) and purposes. I'm not opposed to Elk Konnected just for the sake of Elk Konnected.
I'm opposed to the conflicts of interest created when elected government officials and taxpayer funded county employees with influence or direction over the use or application of county resources (monies or other taxpayer funded resources like websites) are also directly involved in the operation, advancement, management or direction of that same private organization. I'm opposed to the use of county resources for the private purposes or agenda advancement of that same private organization. Sometime you might peruse the Elk County employee handbook which clearly defines conflict of interest on the part of elected officials/employees AND their spouses.
Public service comes with a price. That price isn't about graft, resume or ego or wealth building, or power and influence or anything that conflicts with totally unbiased and uninfluenced service to the voters and taxpayers. That price sometimes means restricted personal freedoms to protect the public interest. I view humility in public service as a virtue.
Further, there have been county development corporations here (defunct, but still on record with the Secretary of State). If county employees/elected officials formally worked for or ran them and those companies acted to influence county resources, I would be just as opposed. This is about things we used to call ethics and standards of conduct.
Patriot
I did a search of Kansas law regarding duties of a County Commissioner and more importantly conflicts of interest. In this case being on Elk Konnected and being a county commissioner. There is no problem being both a county commissioner and on the board of a not for profit limited liability corporation, if the person recuses themself from voting on issues that benefit the LLc. I am not a lawyer or have I ever played one on TV.
David
Thanks, my thoughts also.