I find it utterly amazing that most people in this country, Left, Right, and Middle, just don't get it. All of the arguing over politics and such, this canidate v. that canidate, this policy v. that policy, don't amount to a hill of beans. Our entire system is so screwed that those things SIMPLY DO NOT MATTER! The buzz word of the day seems to be money. We argue over how much, why, and where we spend it. Without realizing what it is that we are aruging over. Bits and pieces of paper that are worth...you ready for this...NOTHING!! Our federal reserve notes are not backed by anything. Not gold, sliver, or even lead for that matter, they are backed by credit. You got that? Our money is backed by something immaterial..an idea..something that basically doesn't exist. Yet we spend our whole lives working our asses off trying to get as much of it as possible, we fight wars over it, hell we've reached a point that now we even say that a pile of it big enough is worth a human life. I mean, really how sick is that?
No shit?
You are quite right Varmit.
I have read several economist that call our monetary system
a gigantic ponzi scheme destined to collapse.
And in the very near future.
Hang on to your hats boys. If Obama gets the White house back in 2012. We think things are bad now. We ain't seen nothing yet. :'(
Amazing is not the word I would use; I think I lean more towards frustrating, insane, ambivolent (sp? for Wilma sake ;)).
Varmit, your post has a big resonance with me and I get it. Pam, is that all you can say, are you at a loss for words as I am? Jane, don't get me started on my conspiracy theory on how Bush, Obama, Clinton are all part of the plan by the powers that be. (Jane I think you get it too). The last time we took a stab a fixing the US was during Regan's stint as President. I voted against him the first time I was legal to vote, then for him the next round. Just rambling here, but all the things that are causing us problems now were happening during the 70's. Not only have we not fixed them we have let them get worse. Clinton, Obama, Bush Jr. if you look at their records you won't see much difference. We the people have lost most of our power in what goes on in the political system of the nation. Just my cynical rant to make me feel better. I will save the "fixes" that we need for later, though I think many will agree with me that our national government (Prez, Congress etc) is no longer ours.
David
It ain't about obama, hes only one man. Its about the whole system. And not just ours, but everybodies. Gov'ts, borders, countries, they don't mean squat anymore. They're all just a part of the illusion to keep us focused on what is right in front of our face so that we don't see the big picture. Think about it. How many times have you heard someone hold up a piece of paper and say "This says that I have the right to do this.."? Well, I say the hell with that, I decide what my rights are, not some hundreds years old piece of paper. There is no "fixing" the u.s. because the powers that be won't allow it. This path was laid out long before the 70's.
Quote from: Varmit on April 06, 2011, 08:48:38 PM
It ain't about obama, hes only one man. Its about the whole system.
Politicians are the only people in the world who create problems and then campaign against them. Have you ever wondered, if both the Democrats and the Republicans are against deficits... WHY do we have deficits? Have you ever wondered, if all the politicians are against inflation and high taxes.... WHY do we have inflation and high taxes?
You and I don't propose a federal budget... the President does. You and I don't have the Constitutional authority to vote on appropriations.... the House of Representatives does. You and I don't write the tax code or set fiscal policy... Congress does. You and I don't control monetary policy... the Federal Reserve Bank does.
One hundred senators... 435 congressmen... one President... and nine Supreme Court justices... equates to 545 human beings out of the 300 million plus are directly, legally, morally, and individually responsible for the domestic problems that plague this country. I excluded the members of the Federal Reserve Board because that problem was created by the Congress. In 1913, Congress delegated its Constitutional duty to provide a sound currency to a federally chartered, but private, central bank.
I excluded all the special interests and lobbyists for a sound reason. They have no legal authority. They have no ability to coerce a senator, a congressman, or a President to do one cotton-picking thing. I don't care if they offer a politician $1 million dollars in cash. The politician has the power to accept or reject it. No matter what the lobbyist promises, it is the legislator's responsibility to determine how he votes.
Those 545 human beings spend much of their energy convincing you that what they did is not their fault. They cooperate in this common con regardless of party.
What separates a politician from a normal human being is an excessive amount of gall. No normal human being would have the gall of a Speaker, who stood up and criticized the President for creating deficits. The President can only propose a budget. He cannot force the Congress to accept it.
The Constitution, which is the supreme law of the land, gives sole responsibility to the House of Representatives for originating and approving appropriations and taxes. Who is the speaker of the House? John Boehner. He is the leader of the majority party. He and fellow House members... not the President.... can approve any budget they want. If the President vetoes it, they can pass it over his veto if they agree to.
It seems inconceivable to me that a nation of 300 million plus cannot replace 545 people who stand convicted....by present fact...... of incompetence and irresponsibility. I can't think of a single domestic problem that is not traceable directly to those 545 people. When you fully grasp the plain truth that 545 people exercise the power of the federal government, then it must follow that what exists is what they want to exist.
If the tax code is unfair... it's because they want it unfair.
If the budget is in the red... it's because they want it in the red.
If the Army & Marines are in Iraq and Afghanistan.... it's because they want them in Iraq and Afghanistan.
If they do not receive social security but are on an elite retirement plan not available to the people... it's because they want it that way.
There are no insoluble government problems.
Do not let these 545 people shift the blame to bureaucrats.... whom they hire and whose jobs they can abolish; to lobbyists... whose gifts and advice they can reject; to regulators... to whom they give the power to regulate and from whom they can take this power. Above all, do not let them con you into the belief that there exists disembodied mystical forces like "the economy," "inflation," or "politics" that prevent them from doing what they take an oath to do.
QuotePam, is that all you can say, are you at a loss for words as I am?
No not at a loss for words...just figured "no shit" pretty much covered it! As would "Well duh" or "tell me somethin I DON'T already know" or "Imagine that" :)
and Warph......No shit? LOL
::)As we look back at the last campaign, I keep wondering why they put a 72 year old man and a woman that was unknown by everyone to run against a person that is a sweet talker. Seems strang to me.
Quote from: Warph on April 07, 2011, 08:55:26 AM
Do not let these 545 people shift the blame to bureaucrats....
If we are going to play the blame game, then lets put it where it belongs. Not at the feet of politicans, bureaucrats, the president, congress, mayors, city officals, or any other gov't employee...but squarely on the shoulders of the average citizen. They're the ones that do the electing, they're the ones that keep following the same B.S. party lines, they're the ones that give up their freedom and the power over their own lives and place it in the hands of the "officals". Go ask the average citizen what he can do to change the government and he will say "I can vote." He believes that is the extent of his power and freedom. He has forgotten what it is to be a sovereign individual. Unfortunately this is a diease that has infected 99% of the worlds population. And this isn't a new phenomenon, it has been occuring for millennia. Religion, Education, Politics, Government, Laws...they are all the same thing. Simply a means for a few to control the many. And it doesn't matter what country or form of government, the greatest lies ever told work.
Look at America. Land of the free and home of the brave right?...Wrong. More like Land of the rats trapped in a cage.
So it all comes back to what I have been trying to tell you and finally gave up on. WE, the PEOPLE, are responsible. So, please stop blaming Obama for everything bad. Put the blame where it belongs, then do something about it. Find the people that will do the job and persuade them that they need to be where their mouths are. Don't blame the Democrats when the Republicans continually block whatever they want to do. Don't blame the Republicans when the Democrats do the same thing. What we need are some honest Replublicrats or Democans.
Quote from: Wilma on April 08, 2011, 12:47:17 PM
So it all comes back to what I have been trying to tell you and finally gave up on. WE, the PEOPLE, are responsible. So, please stop blaming Obama for everything bad. Put the blame where it belongs, then do something about it. Find the people that will do the job and persuade them that they need to be where their mouths are. Don't blame the Democrats when the Republicans continually block whatever they want to do. Don't blame the Republicans when the Democrats do the same thing. What we need are some honest Replublicrats or Democans.
You know this is the best congress we have had in years. A Few democrats in the house, a few republicans in the house and a third party to make them behave and on top of that a split senate. Gotta love gridlock. The Best congress is the congress that is on vacation!
Ohmygod!!! You still don't get it! It doesn't matter if the Repub.s or Demo.s are in power, it doesn't matter who you vote for!! THE OUTCOME IS ALWAYS THE SAME!! That is exactly what I'm talking about.
In case you missed it I'm not blaming obama for anything, and haven't in quite a while. We don't need honest Republicrats or Democrats..what we need is NO republicans or democrats...or moderates, conservates, libertairans, or any other type of politican. We don't need somone to tell us what we can or can't do. Since day one the government of this country has only grown. No matter who it is that is in power. The bigger the government the less power people have over their own lives.
Isn't this the way the Founding Fathers set it up? Were they wrong? Are you saying, basically that the United States has never been a good idea?
Quote from: Varmit on April 08, 2011, 02:16:05 PM
Ohmygod!!! You still don't get it! It doesn't matter if the Repub.s or Demo.s are in power, it doesn't matter who you vote for!! THE OUTCOME IS ALWAYS THE SAME!! That is exactly what I'm talking about.
In case you missed it I'm not blaming obama for anything, and haven't in quite a while. We don't need honest Republicrats or Democrats..what we need is NO republicans or democrats...or moderates, conservates, libertairans, or any other type of politican. We don't need somone to tell us what we can or can't do. Since day one the government of this country has only grown. No matter who it is that is in power. The bigger the government the less power people have over their own lives.
Geeze varmit you really have gone off somewhere wierd. Yes we do need government. In case you haven't noticed, they are the ones who have the military. Without it, we wouldn't stand much of a chance in todays age. I do agree we do not need this government, but that of what was originally set up removing all the extra useless departments and tentacles that have grown since.
I've always said we could eliminate 50% of government and we would be fine.
It doesn't matter blaming the average citizen. No matter how they vote, the bureaucrats, lobbyists and the regulators will be sitting there, waiting.... waiting to pounce on the poor clown that was just elected, be he/she demo or repub. That's Politics. It has been that way for many, many decades.
So what do we do about it? Something has to change.
All:
God save your majesty!
Cade:
I thank you, good people—there shall be no money; all
shall eat and drink on my score, and I will apparel them all in one
livery, that they may agree like brothers,
and worship me their lord.
Dick:
The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
Cade:
Nay, that I mean to do.
INclude the politicians with the lawyers.
Quote from: Wilma on April 08, 2011, 02:57:44 PM
Isn't this the way the Founding Fathers set it up? Were they wrong? Are you saying, basically that the United States has never been a good idea?
Nothing built on genocide, slavery, extortion, or theft is a good idea. Were the founders wrong?...absolutely. Just look at the original constitution. It did not apply to all people. Just white male landowners.
Quote from: srkruzich on April 08, 2011, 05:05:22 PM
Yes we do need government. In case you haven't noticed, they are the ones who have the military. Without it, we wouldn't stand much of a chance in todays age.
I think we would. Simply turn over control of the military to the military. I would think that an entrie populace armed, trained, and prepared to fight would present more of a deterant than an overstreched and restrictive "military".
That was then. The Constitution was written is a way that allowed for amending and amend it they did. It doesn't apply only to white male landowners anymore.
Quote from: Varmit on April 08, 2011, 07:13:36 PM
Nothing built on genocide, slavery, extortion, or theft is a good idea. Were the founders wrong?...absolutely. Just look at the original constitution. It did not apply to all people. Just white male landowners.
I think we would. Simply turn over control of the military to the military. I would think that an entrie populace armed, trained, and prepared to fight would present more of a deterant than an overstreched and restrictive "military".
You know you can rant and rave all you want about the founding fathers were wrong but the simple fact is this. No other country has had the same form of government for as long as we have. It worked. ONLY WHEN lincoln usurped the constitutional authority and the progressives moved in and started their attack on it did it start to fail. Wilson is one of the biggest enemies of the state we have ever had until now.
Quote from: srkruzich on April 08, 2011, 07:39:46 PM
You know you can rant and rave all you want about the founding fathers were wrong but the simple fact is this. No other country has had the same form of government for as long as we have. It worked. ONLY WHEN lincoln usurped the constitutional authority and the progressives moved in and started their attack on it did it start to fail. Wilson is one of the biggest enemies of the state we have ever had until now.
Wrong. Every country has had the same form of gov't. Yeah, I know, we get to vote blah, blah, blah. But you have to remember what the purpose of govt is. Governments exist, no matter what type they are, for one reason, that is to limit the power and freedom of their citizens. I gues in that regard you're right, our gov't has worked.
You bring up a good point with Lincoln. If he hadn't "usurped" his constitutional authority slaveowners in southern states would have continued to make a living off the blood, sweat, and tears of others. Granted that wasn't the issue that started the war, but the abolishment of open slavery was the greatest outcome.
Yes Wilma, the constitution can be amended. But quite frankly what is the point? The gov't sure doesn't follow it. Hell, our own citizens don't even follow it. They use it as a means and excuse to push their own private agendas. Instead of applying it equally to everybody. If it was applied to everyone then there wouldn't be laws against polygamy, homosexuals, censorship laws, etc.
Again, the constitution is nothing more than a tool for the powers that be to limit and lists the freedoms you have. Thanks but No thanks. As a human being I'll decide what freedoms and rights I have.
When people run at election time to any office and they say "This is what I will do for you"!!!!! They need to do just that. We get sweet talked at election time but when they get in office all of a sudden it is "You scratch my back on my bill and I will scratch your back on the bill you want. Now we have an elected officer that is not doing what he/she said they would do. You can not go by what they are telling us you have to look at how they voted in the office that they have held or holding. Bottom line, both parties are at fault for the mess we are in. >:(
Also if anything get in the future gets shutdown it should be the Post Office instead of the Military. We have a lot postal workers making big money for sorting an delivering mail. We need to make it a part time job. Every time we turn around they are raising the price of stamps because the internet has caused them to lose their profits. When did the Post Office protect this country?
Quote from: Warph on April 08, 2011, 05:37:59 PM
It doesn't matter blaming the average citizen. No matter how they vote, the bureaucrats, lobbyists and the regulators will be sitting there, waiting.... waiting to pounce on the poor clown that was just elected, be he/she demo or repub. That's Politics. It has been that way for many, many decades.
Dammit Warph, how come you have not said this before? Due to your engaging writting style I was pulled into the politics forum here and have apparently been wasting my time . How many decades has it been this way? If it is true that no matter who is elected that the bureaucrats, lobbyists, Illuminati, Bildeberber group, (some of those are my words not Warph's) will dictate their path, what can I do? Warph, how come you never let me know this ?I could have spent more time down at the 19th hole (Not where you and Slappy are; think more like Charlie Sheen,Tiger Woods and Cinnamyn favorite haunt)
David
Quote from: Jane on April 09, 2011, 08:44:04 AM
Also if anything get in the future gets shutdown it should be the Post Office instead of the Military. We have a lot postal workers making big money for sorting an delivering mail. We need to make it a part time job. Every time we turn around they are raising the price of stamps because the internet has caused them to lose their profits. When did the Post Office protect this country?
I happen to be one of those "postal workers making big money for sorting and delivering mail." Until you've walked at least 14 miles a day in my shoes, don't knock delivering mail. It's hard work, what with the weather and dogs and hateful people. Part time job? LMAO! And no, we don't protect this country, but a lot of times we are the only people that some elderly people see all day and they enjoy the visit. Also, there are a lot of stories out there about postal workers being heroes after they saved people. If the post office was run better, they wouldn't be losing so much money. I, as well as a few of the carriers I work with, have said all along for them to drop my pay a few bucks so people wouldn't be out of work. What you are proposing, shutting down the post office, would put around 615,000 people out of work. Some people don't have internet or don't use the internet to pay their bills. So, in short, never gonna happen! I'll get off my soapbox now.---Jennifer
P.S. And before someone jumps my hiney about my post, I am in NO WAY comparing postal workers to our military servicemen and women. I'm just saying, maybe the current administration needs to get it together and pass a frickin budget so NO ONE has to be shut down...
Quote from: kshillbillys on April 09, 2011, 09:57:43 PM
I happen to be one of those "postal workers making big money for sorting and delivering mail." Until you've walked at least 14 miles a day in my shoes, don't knock delivering mail. It's hard work, what with the weather and dogs and hateful people. Part time job? LMAO! And no, we don't protect this country, but a lot of times we are the only people that some elderly people see all day and they enjoy the visit. Also, there are a lot of stories out there about postal workers being heroes after they saved people. If the post office was run better, they wouldn't be losing so much money. I, as well as a few of the carriers I work with, have said all along for them to drop my pay a few bucks so people wouldn't be out of work. What you are proposing, shutting down the post office, would put around 615,000 people out of work. Some people don't have internet or don't use the internet to pay their bills. So, in short, never gonna happen! I'll get off my soapbox now.---Jennifer
P.S. And before someone jumps my hiney about my post, I am in NO WAY comparing postal workers to our military servicemen and women. I'm just saying, maybe the current administration needs to get it together and pass a frickin budget so NO ONE has to be shut down...
While I agree with most of what you have to say, the administration is not the one that has to pass a budget, congress does and it is the constitutional power of the President to veto said budget if it is unacceptable. Congress needs to pass one first.
Quote from: jerry wagner on April 09, 2011, 10:25:37 PM
While I agree with most of what you have to say, the administration is not the one that has to pass a budget, congress does and it is the constitutional power of the President to veto said budget if it is unacceptable. Congress needs to pass one first.
She is correct in her statement this Administration. THIS ADMINISTRATION abdicated their responsibility cause they were too chickenshit to do it before the elections. They were too afraid it would cost them their job. THIS ADMINISTRATION had control of the house and the senate as well as the executive branch and they could have easily passed the budget had they even attempted it.
Quote from: jerry wagner on April 09, 2011, 10:25:37 PM
While I agree with most of what you have to say, the administration is not the one that has to pass a budget, congress does and it is the constitutional power of the President to veto said budget if it is unacceptable. Congress needs to pass one first.
And you do earn every dime not to mention beauacracy in the post office that you have to be concerned with. That alone should double your paycheck. It looks like a few thousand more postal workers may be losing their jobs soon. I'm a retired federal employee and I know what higher ups in the ranks of the employeed do in the government. Hang in there and be proud of your job.
I am VERY proud of the job I do for the Postal Service. I'm also very proud to say that I've been there for 10 years now. It's a very demanding job and somedays you wonder if you really have it in you to get it done! But I'm always proud when I do get it done! I may gripe about it now and then but working for the United States Postal Service is truly the best thing I could ever do!
No you can't lay off everyone in the post office but it is just like any other goverment run agency, there are corners that can be cut starting at the top, not the bottom.
Maybe if we did not get our mail for a couple of days our delivery person might drive up and knock on the door. As far as part time, the post office in Auburn is only open 1 1/2 hours on Saturday so why even open up at all?
It's only open for an hour and a half in most smaller towns on Saturday. I think they figure that gives people enough time to come buy stamps or mail something or pick up a package. And that way they don't have to spend a lot of money on having the office open til noon. And also, someone of authority is there to make sure the rural carriers are doing their thing and can tell them if there are any problems, via messages from the higher ups on the computer. Sorry if I jumped too hard on you Jane.
Quote from: Varmit on April 08, 2011, 10:11:18 AM
but squarely on the shoulders of the average citizen.
When's the last time anyone has gone to a county commissioners or school board meeting?
We try to go to the school board meetings but haven't been for a couple of months because they've been holding them on Saturday mornings over here at Longton and I'm usually at work. We go to our city council meetings every month and every time they hold a special meeting and I know about it. I've never been to a commission meeting because my day off never seems to fall right.
To us, if people want to gripe about what's going on they should at least go to the meetings to hear first hand about what is taking place at those meetings.
Thats ok kshillbillys, it just really upsets me that the first place they look to save money is from the people that are protecting this country. Of course I have never heard anyone from the House or the Senate say they will give up their wage. I know there are people that need help from some of the goverment programs but I think they could take a good look at all the programs there are out there and try and reorganize them to do the job and use less money. I think welfare should be revamped, that is an area were there are people needing it and other people just living off if it generation after generation.