Has a violent revolution begun? Is it real now? If you thought the government was intrusive yesterday.... just wait.
Congresswoman, 6 Others, Killed By Gunman
by NPR Staff
January 8, 2011
Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and six others died after a gunman opened fire at a public event on Saturday, the Pima County, Ariz., sheriff's office confirms.
The 40-year-old Democrat, who was re-elected to her third term in November, was hosting a "Congress on Your Corner" event at a Safeway in northwest Tucson when a gunman ran up and started shooting, according to Peter Michaels, news director of Arizona Public Media.
At least three other people, including members of her staff, were injured. Giffords was transported to University Medical Center in Tucson.
Giffords was talking to a couple when the suspect ran up and fired indiscriminately from about four feet away, Michaels said.
Full story: http://www.npr.org/2011/01/08/132764367/congresswoman-shot-in-arizona
Don't have the democrats dead before it is true. Facts are always good!
Quote from: greatguns on January 08, 2011, 03:11:37 PM
Don't have the democrats dead before it is true. Facts are always good!
Don't shoot the messenger, gunz. That was the headline at the time... things can surely change. This will, however, likely result in a bunch of liberal knee jerk overreaction that will result in more calls for govt to 'do more.' As to the death of 'the democrats'... don't think party affiliation was the issue. Hell, I've met a lot of demos that were ok.... they just weren't Wilsonian progressives.
Okay , I won't shoot.
It's sad that a nine year old was killed for adult foolishness. So where were all those heavily armed people who swore that if more people were armed all the time this kind of thing wouldn't happen because the shooter would be too afraid of being shot himself he wouldn't try anything? Sadly in this case that theory didn't pan out. This can't be allowed to be about left or right or conservative or liberal, this must be about life and death and loss of civilized behavior. There is no excuse for it, period. This didn't happen in a known violent area or a battlefield. It was at the local Safeway store north of Tuscon. If it's the one I think it is, it's in a very ordinary residential area. I'm not positive though. All those people died and were badly hurt for what? It doesn't change anything except the lives of those people and their families who will never be the same.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on January 09, 2011, 02:51:04 PM
It's sad that a nine year old was killed for adult foolishness. So where were all those heavily armed people who swore that if more people were armed all the time this kind of thing wouldn't happen because the shooter would be too afraid of being shot himself he wouldn't try anything? Sadly in this case that theory didn't pan out. This can't be allowed to be about left or right or conservative or liberal, this must be about life and death and loss of civilized behavior. There is no excuse for it, period. This didn't happen in a known violent area or a battlefield. It was at the local Safeway store north of Tuscon. If it's the one I think it is, it's in a very ordinary residential area. I'm not positive though. All those people died and were badly hurt for what? It doesn't change anything except the lives of those people and their families who will never be the same.
Well the guy was subdued by a doctor there. Not sure what reason no one else was armed. Might be that it was a democrat event and most dems are anti gun. Shrug....
I don't think any one is really anti gun around Tuscon are they? And how does a grocery store become political? If the locals shop there I would think it would be a mix of all kinds of people. The town meetings here are attended by all parties, not just the host's. How else does a person get a broad view of ideas, wants and needs from the people who live around there?
Quote from Diane
How else does a person get a broad view of ideas, wants and needs from the people who live around there?
Now there's an easy one to answer Diane---from the Elk County Forum :)
Someone tell Warph he can come out of hiding now. They caught the guy.
Larryj
He is a nutcase and often there is no defense against a nutcase.
Exactly Twirldoggy, but the lefties are already crying the blues wanting stricter gun laws---hang Glenn Beck---banish Sarah Palin to Siberia and on & on. Haven't heard it said yet but I'm sure we will be hearing how Geo. W. Bush is behind this shooting
This democrat is not anti gun, I'm just anti nutcase with a gun. I find it hard to believe anyone of any party thinks this was okay. God help you, if you do.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on January 09, 2011, 02:51:04 PM
It's sad that a nine year old was killed for adult foolishness. So where were all those heavily armed people who swore that if more people were armed all the time this kind of thing wouldn't happen because the shooter would be too afraid of being shot himself he wouldn't try anything?
This wasn't hardly mentioned... but for the record.. Fox News reported either an armed citizen, or security officer/LEO got a shot off at the BG, before the crowd tackled and disarmed him..
Marshal and I always carry concealed and open carry while we are in Arizona..( see my profile picture)) THAT was in Arizona and is how I went to the grocery market that evening) ;) but just because you CAN... it sadly doesn't mean everyone does.. And I can not say with any certainty what I would have done if I had of been there when all the shooting started. . UNLESS I had a chance to take consecutive clean shots without missing without an innocent person not getting injured from a stray bullet... I have to say that I would have been staying low..
waiting to see if I had a chance to take him out physically ( like what was done) or with a well placed bullet while he was reloading and his attention was distracted for that 5 seconds that you would have to make the move. Once again.. depends on where I was positioned ( as a shooter)
This act of violence happened so fast.. that in reality.. It would have been a shooting arcade if an armed citizen started shooting back with that many people in the close proximity of the violence taking place.
Most people do not realize that any shot you take at a human form has the capacity and probability to go through that person and hit someone else. And it isn't like in the movies.. where the good guy expertly draws his weapon and levels down and in the midst of flying bullets ..the perp is shot and the shot is clean and on a vital spot. I would say that most people in an adrenalin state ( who are your average every day citizen ) doesn't have the experience or nerves of steel to stay calm and level in a situation like this to make the shots and to make them good. .
Lots and lots of "ifs"...
But to say that just because Arizona has full open carry, that nut cases with a premeditated intent to kill , won't happen ..is grasping for a place to put the blame.
Losers like Jared Loughner, get huge amounts of notoriety. Perhaps this has more to do with violent acts like this than gun... magazine capacity and ammo used in a crime like murder.
Quote from: greatguns on January 09, 2011, 09:38:38 PM
This democrat is not anti gun, I'm just anti nutcase with a gun. I find it hard to believe anyone of any party thinks this was okay. God help you, if you do.
You better hang on to your hat Great Guns Sally~~ ....... cause it looks like its gonna be a bumpy ride...
The anti's gunners are just beginning their BS on this. I'm sure that as soon as the initial shock.. 0.35 seconds.. wore off they were gathering in the war rooms rolling out the plans to capitalize on this tragedy.
Because *gasp* everyone knows that the shooter had nothing to do with it. ::) This was all about that ugly and evil gun that not only can't be detected by x-ray or metal detectors.. but that evil gun that ran out and killed and wounded all these people in the hands of the poor victim that happened to be holding it.
I don't know what the Dictator in chief will try to have his regulatory hounds try to do... but I think they'll be looking to use the FCC to regulate the 1st amendment.... and get rid of as much conservative speech as they can....with
"Hate" speech laws being expanded to include political statements... I imagine that they will try to go for a limitation on the capacity of magazines... most likely be screaming to have a "re-examination" of carry laws in AZ and other places that are relatively "loose".
What bother's me is that this happened in January. How bad is it going to get when summer hits and both sides have been at each others throats for six months?
As much as I hate what happened to Ms Giffords and do not want her to suffer for this... you know that the Brady campaign already has the contracts ready for her to sign.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/congress-reacts-dems-propose-gun-restrictions-ban-on-threatening-language-or-symbols/
My hat done blew off and I left. Gun, pipe bomb, knife, brass knucks, or any other weapon doesn't matter to me. Crazy people on the loose bother me. Just my take on it. I guess in a nut decides to kill me, it really doesn't matter how it is done. Sounds like the lady that grab the magazine away from him done the most good.
Quote from: greatguns on January 09, 2011, 09:38:38 PM
This democrat is not anti gun, I'm just anti nutcase with a gun. I find it hard to believe anyone of any party thinks this was okay. God help you, if you do.
Maybe we should consider lockin up more of the nut cases instead of the guns!
Finally, an intelligent statement.
Teresa, I feel your post is right on. The gun will be the blame in this case as usual. I honestly think people have the right to own and carry guns, but in most cases, like with Teresa and others they know how to correctly use them!! This is was case of a guy that is, as great guns says, pure nuts. Read somewhere that he with drew himself from college and that the only way that he could attend again is if he had a pys evaluation.
When it comes to gun control, you just can't honestly control it or any weapon. People have ways of getting them no matter what. I think the shooting is a bad deal! I hope that it doesn't happen again, but chances are most likely. There are more people in this world with views like this guy, wish there wasn't but there is.
You just can't take guns away because of this incident or the others. It's not the gun that did the actual shooting, it was the man. Yes, the gun did the damage but it takes a person to shoot it.
So true Angie. God forbid we have mental institutions to put them in 'cause that isn't a nice thing to do.
You know having faced with a event in that i could have justly used a gun in defense, there is one thing that ran through my mind. Making sure that i tried everything else before using that gun up to and including threat of violence to that individual.
I don't think i could have taken the shot unless the guy was pointing at me, in that I would never be able to deal with the chance of killing a innocent in that crowd. It was way too crowded to be firing at anyone. Too big a risk of killing someone innocent.
Yup, my thoughts too. As you all know I'm not for gun control, but I'm very much for common sense. The chances of having a moment to "get the bad guy" without risking other lives would be slim to none. IMHO Even then the intention could be misunderstood unless you are wearing a white hat. ;) Not a good idea to have 5 well intentioned armed people shooting each other because they don't know who else is involved as a bad guy. By the way, I don't know if this got carried out there or not, but the little girl who was killed was Dallas Green's grand daughter. He lives here in Newark. He went to UD and was the head coach for the Phillies baseball team for many years including 1980 when they won the world series. I certainly didn't expect this incident to have a local connection.
Teresa,
Keep hearing that someone in the crowd took a shot or two at the nut case but what I've heard so far he was not wounded. Where did the bullets go that were intended for his sorry ass ? I hope like hell the good Samaritan didn't unintentionally shoot an innocent bystander.
The criminally insane must commit the crime first , then are sent to a facility second. Here in Missouri they have to have a court's permission to get out, not just the doctor's permission to get out. This does not protect the innocent from crimes, but it does keep the nutty ones somewhat contained. There are many manipulations done by the staff that run the system. Here iin this area, the courts would send criminally insane from Kansas City to St. Joseph. The people worked in situations in the community. That would put them out in city buses and walking on the streets. A staff person once told me St. Joseph had more criminally insane than Kansas City. It makes for an unsafe situation for the general public. But it was kept secret and the public did not know of it.
Hate to burst a few bubbles here (okay not really) but that guy was not insane or mentally disturbed or disabled. He knew exactly what he was doing. The only difference is that he felt he was right in doing it. Just because a person feels he or she is right about something and everyone else is wrong doesn't make that person crazy.
The mentally disordered can always make a choice to do something and they can realize that the act is against the law, immoral or evil. But in addition to that they can have depression, delusions, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder. The mental disorder does not excuse them from responsibility, but it can make them more prone to act with unlawful behavior.
In the case of the Tucson shooter he had been banned from college because others felt he was dangerous. He was rejected for the military because of drugs in his system. He did show intent in his writings and in his behavior before the incident. He showed that he knew it was wrong when he failed to talk after the incident. His lawyer will go for "mentally disordered" because he is making illogical and unreasonable statements, and there is little else to defend him. But he will be found guilty and most likely sentenced to death.
Does AZ have the "guilty but mentally insane" category? I hate the "innocent because of mental defect" plea because it makes it sound as if he didn't do it. The other is more accurate I think. I would suppose he will be thoroughly evaluated. I can't help feeling that he's a newish schizophrenic.That seems to develop most often in late teens, early 20's if I remember correctly. Does he have any family that has been interviewed? Twirl?
His family made a statement this afternoon, but said nothing of mental illness. I don't know about the mental health laws in Arizona. He won't see the light of day again and that is best. Many people have noted his picture with head shaved and smiling just a day after he killed six people.
It makes sense to me that he might have schizophrenia because of his statements about the connection between grammar and government. Sounds delusional but one can't diagnose from afar. Will have to wait until it unfolds in the court. I do know that even when there might be mental disorder, the lawyers can manipulate the system so there is no mental evaluation.
The sheriff said that the gunman had made assassination threats against people before. Why wasn't something done about him before if the sheriff had proof that he had made those threats before? Why is that same sheriff blaming Sarah Palin and Rush Limbaugh for the gunman shooting people when he knew what the creep had threatened before?
Westboro was supposed to go protest at the funerals in Arizona but the legislature of AZ said NO and will make it illegal for anyone to protest at or near a funeral. Governor Jan Brewer is to sign it into law. So I don't know if they will show up now or not.
Press Release: Westboro Baptist Church, the Topeka church known for its inflammatory anti-gay protests, plans to picket the funerals of the six people gunned down in Arizona on Saturday.
In a flier posted on its web site, the controversial church writes, "THANK GOD FOR THE SHOOTER -- 6 DEAD!" The message continues:
God appointed this rod for your sins! God sent the shooter! This hateful nation unleashed violent veterans on the servants of God at WBC--hoping to silence our kind warning to obey God and flee the wrath to come.
The flier claims that the shooting of both a House member and a federal judge -- the latter of whom was killed -- is god's punishment for judicial and Congressional action against the WBC. "God sent the shooter to shoot you! And He's sitting in Heaven laughing at you!" the announcement reads.
In graphic language, it continues:
Your federal judge is dead and your (fag-promoting, baby-killing, proud-sinner) Congresswoman fights for her life. God is avenging Himself on this rebellious house! WBC prays for your destruction--more shooters, more dead carcasses piling up, young, old, leader and commoner--all. Your doom is upon you!
WHAT A BUNCH OF FREAKS!
What the heck.... violent rhetoric seems to be the order of the week.........
WESTBORO (http://www.websmileys.com/sm/violent/sterb126.gif)
Not to worry, it's just free speech.
When he had no comeback of course "We're out of time". More like out of touch! (His response on Arizona's gun laws is at 5:25).
That was a very interesting video. The guy, Joe, is a hero. Only thing that I did worry about in this situation, he said he got the gun out of a guys hand. The guy he thought was the shooter. When he was asked if he would have shot the guy back he stated YES. I feel he has every right, but in this case he knocked the gun out of the wrong guys hand. The guy wasn't the shooter. But Joe thought about firing. He thought about it, that is what gun control is all about. He knew that it wasn't the time to open up and try to shot the guy back. I think in the back of his mind he knew that there were to many people around.
What I totally don't get is that the GOVERNMENT or whoever makes this LAW, like gun control and such, don't even think about the millions of people out there that can get guns illegally. That is why, to me, it is important to allow all others to carry a gun if they chose. We have guns at our house. I personally have never shot anything other than a BB gun. But if I lived iin a big more dangerous city, I just might carry a gun. But it is my right to chose. I always hated when my oldest girl was little, part of the well check up her dr at the time, would ask if we had locks on our guns or had them in a gun safe. We actually have them put away. Girls can't get to them. I just stated that to her and she looked at me like I was crazy. Well I told her a toddler wasn't going to climb up in the top of a closet to play with our guns. We teach our girls that guns can kill if not used right. The girls have been with Jeff feeding and have seen him have to use the gun. They are educated about guns. That is what we need to do with children these days, not take all the guns away. I do not let the kids at daycare play guns, only because they can't at school. You have to teach kids these things. I tell the girls to that no playing shooting at school. Educate kids, people and don't take away. We have to have guns on our farm, you never know when you will need one.
Mr. Ed is one of those people who wouldn't see the idiocy of his statements & reasoning if Jesus Christ Himself pointed it out. Reason and logic don't work because he is so self absorbed. His friends, his background, his experience, his expertise. And, heaven forbid somebody dispute his 'facts.'
Even Arpaio suggests Dupnik Shut up..
http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/Giffords-Dupnik-Arpaio-Arizona/2011/01/11/id/382540
Arpaio: Dupnik Should 'Shut Mouth' on Political Agenda in TragedyTuesday, 11 Jan 2011 04:15 PM
By Jim Meyers and Kathleen Walter
Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio tells Newsmax that, if his fellow Arizona Sheriff Clarence Dupnik were an appointed chief of police instead of an elected official, he would be "fired tomorrow" for comments he's made about the shooting of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and others on Saturday.
Thanks for this geat video
No kidding. I grew up with and around law enforcement. When I first heard Dupnik talk, I was dumbfounded that someone in his position was making those statements, but chalked it up to the intense emotion of the moment. But, as he keeps on talking and making these statements it is obvious he is doing so politically with no respect for his position. He should be relieved of duty immediately if it were possible. I think maybe he is just trying to avert any blame for his departments part in dealing with the suspect and the suspects family in the past.