-Ron Paul
Perhaps the biggest media story of 2010 was the influence of Tea Party voters on the congressional landscape. The new congress comes to Capitol Hill with a mandate to end profligate spending and restore fiscal sanity, we are told. But when the House and Senate convene in January, the newly elected members will face tremendous pressure to maintain spending levels for entitlement programs. Even the most modest proposals to trim Social Security or Medicare spending will be met with howls of indignation and threats of voter revolt. Legislators who propose any kind of means testing or increased retirement ages can expect angry visits from senior citizen lobbyists ready to fund a candidate back home who supports the status quo.
But millions of Americans now realize that the status quo is an illusion that will not last even another 10 or 20 years. The federal government cannot continue to spend a trillion dollars more than it collects in revenue each year, because we are running out of creditors. Fiscal reality is setting in, and the consequences may be grim even if Congress finds the courage to take decisive action now.
Courage begins with a commitment to see things as they are, rather than how we wish they were. When it comes to Social Security, we must understand that the system does not represent an old age pension, an "insurance" program, or even a forced savings program. It simply represents an enormous transfer payment, with younger workers paying taxes to fund benefits. There is no Social Security trust fund, and you don't have an "account." Whether you win or lose the Social Security lottery is a function of when you happened to be born and how long you live to collect benefits. Of course young people today have every reason to believe they will never collect those benefits.
read more:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul714.html
Really good article. Says it like it is. Thanks.
What he doesn't say is that when social security started, there were some 33 workers paying SS tax into the system for each retiree collecting benefits. Today there are only two per retiree! Talk about a Ponzi about to collapse. Unsustainable is an understatement.
Yet even today, we have an electorate so uninformed that many still worship at the Progressive alters of the likes of Woodrow Wilson, FDR, Johnson, Carter and BH Obama and their ilk in both parties & both houses of Congress (Kennedy, Durbin, Murkowski, Snowe, Reid, Pelosi, Schumer, et al). Some even believe the the Bush's were untainted by Progressive character stains. I suspect most don't even know (or care about) their names but just like their 'looks good on paper politics'.
Stock up on bean & melon seed! We may need em.
quote.....When it comes to Social Security, we must understand that the system does not represent an old age pension..
But that is exactly what it was intended as.......... until Johnson and the Democrats stole the money to fund his useless "Great Society" BS...
Quote from: Teresa on January 02, 2011, 01:48:30 PM
But that is exactly what it was intended as.......... until Johnson and the Democrats stole the money to fund his useless "Great Society" BS...
Again, I respectfully disagree, Teresa... The 'powers that be' (FDR & Co.) knew
EXACTLY what they were selling. Redistribution Snake Oil! LBJ & Crew just repackaged the same stuff in suppository form.
Yes Sir! Follow the money - what else has been set-up and served for the taking?
By the way, when the Federal income tax is repealed, let's don't allow or make provisions for a Federal "fair tax' or "flat tax". No more!
Nada.
Patriot.. I realize that.. but also keep in mind when Bush attempted to reform SS to personal investment choices that were PROVEN to get a better return... the left thought he had just killed puppies, kittens, and babies.,.....
There were massive protests across the country.
The thinking of the American people has to change. The thought of the majority (and I believe it is the majority) have ..is they somehow can pay next to nothing in taxes and get a benefit that far exceeds what they paid. It seems that an entitlement society is what makes up a vast majority of this country...."What's in it for me?" As opposed to stay the hell out of my life.... has become a rampant problem.
I know all the talk about about cutting entitlement programs but how about also cutting the defense budget?
How about pulling our troops out of places we have no business being?? How about cutting programs that even military brass say they don't need.. and getting rid of the DHS?
I mean .. come on~~defense and entitlements make up well over half of the budget. You can cut discretionary spending in half and still won't start reducing the deficit.. let alone the debt.
Its time to tell Europe and Japan that the 50 year free ride on defense spending is over. Likewise~ we will stop paying Egypt and Israel billions apiece every year not to kill each other... and the Kosovars are on their own.
Let the EU deal with it.
There is only one way to get out of debt. Reduce spending and increase revenue. Its an iron law of economics and we aren't immune to it just because we are the US of A. :P
That might not cure the problem, but it will be a big step in the right direction.
Was in the post office today.... and there were about 3 people standing outside discussing their SS. One old guy was hopping mad... I stopped and listened....
The government took his Mother's SS when she died. . he said they thumbed their nose at him with the answer of one less dependent to pay out~~ but here's your $200 one time death contribution.
Another gentleman said something to the effect of ......" Its the biggest scam of an entitlement society out there.
If I take a pistol and put it to a man's head and take his money,,....I go to Prison......The Gov't gets away with it every week."
Got me to thinking while I was doing my dreaded exercises this afternoon...
Social security can't be an entitlement if you are paid based on what you put in. Now if someone draws it as a disability.... then it should come out of the Welfare fund since it does not represent a lifetime of work deductions.
If I have an insurance claim against my policy that is not an entitlement. If I contribute to an annuity then there is a schedule to show what my payment will be when I retire and that is not an entitlement. It was intended as a supplement to whatever retirement you already had... that is why your pension is reduced when you begin to draw Social Security.
Now what gets in my hind end is giving SS benefits to illegals! That is totally is breaking a promise to the American people...plus breaking a couple of laws passed by Congress and signed by Presidents~~~ as well as violating the Constitution.
Actually teresa it depends on what you pay in to get disability SS. IF you don't have enough quarters paid you don't get it. You can get the welfare SSI but not SSDI which is based on what you pay in through the SS you pay every check.
I get the SSI stuff all mixed up with the SSDI .. and medicare and Medicaid..
I can't keep it all straight. :-\
All of it violates the intent of the founding fathers. The Fed's have been getting by with this stuff since the Civil War.
It was the Republican Party that brought socialism to this country and it's the Republicans who will never do anything
to change that.
Lincoln never saved the Union, Lincoln changed the Union.
Lots of people getting themselves a Federal check(s) in the mail box. It's gonna take a real change by the people to get the country
right and that's probably never going to happen. Meanwhile, when's the next Federal check gonna be here?
Redcliff, your going to rant til your blue in the face over social security. I for one am getting what i paid into it as much as i can. I doubt i'll ever get what i paid in since it is only doled out to me in paltry sums. You see for years i was writing out thousands of dollars to pay into social security every year on top of the thousands of dollars i paid to feds. Now every worker out there that is within grasp of getting some of what they paid in back is going to do so.
It doesn't matter at this point in time what the founding fathers intended. It is what it is. You have a federal government that FORCED everyone to pay into this with the PROMISE of a check if they survive long enough which is a contract. A payment is made for a service that is to be provided, providing you abide by the rules set forth by the parties involved.
What needs to happen is that the Govt needs to settle up on its contract, stop the SS as we know it for anyone under 35, and the rest get paid out.
But still, not every one who is working pays into SS or takes out. It depends on their contract. The Feds aren't always involved. Some states and local Governments have a different way of doing it. I won't risk boring you with details. But people who put in will eventually get it back, if you live to retire. Not all do. Al's mom was one of those. She had a very good income all of her working life and died just before SS age. All that money stayed in the pot. Reducing the possible retirement and draw age to 62, even though the payback is a little less, that still means less going into the pot also.
It's not really a Ponzi because then the catch is, "If we make money, you make money." With SS at least you will get your own money back if you live long enough. And payment adjustments for cost of living can be made. With a true Ponzi that never happens. Other changes over the years added more and more people to the payout side who may or may not have ever put money in. Then the Gov't raiding the pot and starting with the IOU business really hurt. If young people are smart they will save as if SS never existed, regardless if they put in or not.
I can't imagine why that" little old man" that Teresa mentioned was so mad. Surely he knew that SS payments stop when the person dies and no longer needs them, and usually that $200.00 burial payment goes to the funeral home directly. It did with both my parents. He wouldn't have gotten it anyway. Perhaps he should have figured out how much his mother had actually put into the SS pot. Chances are she had been getting back more than she had ever put in and was alive for sometime before SS ever started, which I believe was 1935. Don't forget too that there was a time when a person's SS deduct was fulfilled before the end of the year for people who had good pay. I know Al didn't have anything taken out in Nov. and Dec. because he had paid in the max. Now I don't think there is a max. Steve, I don't know how old you are but do you remember when your SS deduction topped out and stopped?
Does it top out?? It seems like ours has increased the past few years..
It is all so darn confusing to me.. makes me have a headache..
I checked since this came up. It's 6.27% up to $106,800.00 in earned income or $6,621.60. So if you make $130,00.00 in income from a job, or more than one job, once you paid in your 6.27% share into SS ,or $6,621.60, the rest would have no SS withholding. So there still is a top out for some people. I think I have that right. If there are any CPAs on here, please let me know if I didn't work that correctly.
I remember that it used to top out. People were overjoyed when they reached that point. Especially the doctors employed by the state.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on January 06, 2011, 11:17:06 AM
But still, not every one who is working pays into SS or takes out. It depends on their contract. The Feds aren't always involved.
Huh? Depends on their contract? Don't manage a payroll do ya? Exemptions (and there are few) from FICA & Medicare tax withholding is clearly outlined in IRS Pub 15 and have nothing to do with any contract. ???
Quote from: Diane Amberg on January 06, 2011, 11:17:06 AM
Some states and local Governments have a different way of doing it. I won't risk boring you with details.
Please explain what state & local governments have to do with Social Security taxation/payments. I really wanna know. I've been making a payroll for the last 20+ years and have never had a state/local taxing authority involved in SS taxation. Tell me, please so I can share your knowledge with my past & present tax accountants/lawyers & make ammends to those jurisdictions I may have underpaid. ???
Quote from: Diane Amberg on January 06, 2011, 11:17:06 AM
It's not really a Ponzi because then the catch is, "If we make money, you make money." With SS at least you will get your own money back if you live long enough. And payment adjustments for cost of living can be made. With a true Ponzi that never happens.
A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to separate investors, not from any actual profit earned by the organization, but from their own money or money paid by subsequent investors.
If taking money from today's worker & employer to pay it to yesterday's worker doesn't fit that definition, then the definition is wrong. And no, you
aren't getting your own contributions back.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on January 06, 2011, 11:17:06 AM
Don't forget too that there was a time when a person's SS deduct was fulfilled before the end of the year for people who had good pay.
Was a time? Still is. It's called the Social Security Wage Base. For CY 2009/2010/2011, that would be $106,800
Quote from: Diane Amberg on January 06, 2011, 11:17:06 AM
I know Al didn't have anything taken out in Nov. and Dec. because he had paid in the max.
Which simply means Alan had received a gross wage of at least $106,800 by November. His contribution to that point was $6,621.60 which had been matched by the employer. Making the total contribution $13243.20 for the year.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on January 06, 2011, 11:17:06 AM
Now I don't think there is a max.
Wrong again, diane.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on January 06, 2011, 11:17:06 AM
Steve, I don't know how old you are but do you remember when your SS deduction topped out and stopped?
Age has nothing to do with anything. Even a person receiving SS who goes back to work will find their wages are subject to FICA withholding.
For what it's worth:
IRS Circular E, Publication 15 can be found here: http://www.irs.gov/app/picklist/list/publicationsNoticesPdf.html
Click on the Publ 15 link on that page.
Patriot, do you really think it is necessary to tell Diane that she is wrong again when she says she "thinks" something? Aren't you being kind of picky?
Incidentally, it is good that someone can straighten us out on social security, but it is nicer to do it in a way that leaves out personalities.
My husband paid in the maximum several years and it was nice to have that extra in his pay check. Then they started raising the maximum.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on January 06, 2011, 11:17:06 AMSteve, I don't know how old you are but do you remember when your SS deduction topped out and stopped?
I think it topped out at 96,000 when i was working, i maxed mine out every year for the last 10 years i worked, but I paid the full 17% into social security. But i also had a lifetime of payments of 5k or more. I started working at 14 years old. I think i was 20 when i started paying 5k a year. i don't quite remember that far back.
Quote from: Teresa on January 06, 2011, 03:54:31 PM
Does it top out?? It seems like ours has increased the past few years..
It is all so darn confusing to me.. makes me have a headache..
I think the topout is around 120k or so now.
Quote from: Teresa on January 06, 2011, 03:54:31 PM
Does it top out?? It seems like ours has increased the past few years..
It is all so darn confusing to me.. makes me have a headache..
Alaskans do not pay into social security. They are exempt.
Wilma,
You're quite right on that one. I saw so much else stated as unsubstantiated fact that I missed the 'think'. My apologies, Diane.
Quote from: srkruzich on January 06, 2011, 05:51:43 PM
Alaskans do not pay into social security. They are exempt.
I seem to recall that there are a couple of Texas communities that are somehow exempt as well.
Quote from: Teresa on January 05, 2011, 04:06:19 PM
Was in the post office today.... and there were about 3 people standing outside discussing their SS. One old guy was hopping mad... I stopped and listened....
The government took his Mother's SS when she died. . he said they thumbed their nose at him with the answer of one less dependent to pay out~~ but here's your $200 one time death contribution.
You know, I reread this a bit ago and took another view. I can see the old fell pissed as much or more at the insolent, arrogant attitude of the bureaucrat. The termination of benefits, while sad, is a part of the system. The vile approach to it by a government lackey would piss off a rock!
There are at least a dozen states in which teachers do not pay into or receiver SS unless they also have other jobs that do fall under SS and work enough quarters to pay in that way. Al's aunt was a Philadelphia teacher. She never paid in, never took out. My grandfather worked for the railroad . They had their own pension arrangement and had no connection to SS. He never paid in and never took out. Our New Castle County Police, by contract, do not pay into SS, nor will they get it from their careers as police officers here. You can look up "Windfall Elimination Provision." For more yet, look up "Government Offset" that often affects husbands and wives in which one or both are Gov't employees. Not all Gov't jobs are still exempt. Some opted into SS years ago, some still haven't. Part of it went back to 1935 when it was thought that it was unconstitutional for the Federal Gov't to levy taxes on states, as in state employees. Look it up for yourself. No, it doesn't affect a local business owner. But there are fewer people paying in than is often thought. Delaware and Maryland, where I taught didn't opt out, so I didn't get to avoid SS withholding either. As far as my comments on "maxing out" I didn't mean there was none, I just meant the average person on here probably isn't making more than the $100,000 plus dollars one would have to have made to have those last few checks each year free of SS with holding. Sorry if I wasn't clear about that. Now since the temperature seems to be rising again in a few, I will duck out once more to avoid being whipped, beat, slammed or otherwise spindled and mutilated for anyone's amusement. :-X ;D
I've never had the problem of maxing out in August. And God forbid that the child draws a check when the 25 year old Dad gets killed in an accident because, after all, that child at 5 years old hasn't paid into SS and the Dad hadn't paid in for 50 years. I am so thankful I more in life to worry about than that.