Metal detectors have been working just fine. Why do we need to be subjected to humiliating body scanners? And intrusive pat downs?
I'm really concerned about all of this .. as we are supposed to be doing lots of fly time in 2011..
Pisses me straight off.. >:( >:(
The first thing you need to understand is that nothing about these screenings is about security, the x-ray machines are all about the money and the company providing them. I don't have the time to go into it, but if you look at the people behind the company providing the x-ray machines you will understand.
It is all about installing intimidation, fear and control, and the idea of the public getting used to it. If it was really about security, the techniques used in Israel would be implemented. ID the terrorist not the item; it has been 99.9% effective.
If you still don't believe, I would ask you one question, why are the people subjected to such extreme measures while baggage and cargo are not? Quick answer is you cannot take away the rights of a bag or cargo.
It's not about security! It's about money, control and power! It's about removing the Bill of Rights, and getting people used to it in the name of security, so when it expands beyond flying the T.V. bots among us, will not fight back and accept the loss of freedom for security. Which of course in the end we will have neither.
I have said since they implemented this farce that it would not make us any safer. you cannot make us safe with useless proceedures. Secondly putting these proceedures in place is like putting a barb wired fence up to contain a goat. It ain't possible to contain the goat. in fact theres a old saying, if it doesn't hold water it won't hold a goat.
TSA screeners aren't even qualified to do the job. They pretty much are govt union workers that don't give a crap enough about their own education level so why are they concerned about your safety. With this new power given to them, they think they can be as sadistic as they want to be.
Heck i basically tell them to go to hell when i fly and they look forward to the trip.
Also coming soon to a train/bus depot near you! Sounds strangely like Hitler's Germany in the 30s.
What's it gonna be, forum... freedom & liberty or another round of online word games?
Write/call your elected reps now!
How about we try to leave our kids/grandkids something that resembles a free republic.
No such on trains.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on November 17, 2010, 03:38:58 PM
No such on trains.
I would expect more fact checking from an educator, Diane. Go get your facts straight. Maryland, isn't that near where you live?
P.S. I thought it was you who reassured us that our teachers could be trusted to teach our children truth and fact.
TSA plays an important role in securing our railroads and conducts inspections and investigations to prevent attacks, share best practices and solve problems. Across the country, TSA deploys transit inspectors, VIPR teams, canine teams and provides grants to protect and support mass transit systems...
...Mobile checkpoint equipment can fit into two standard size shipping containers and be rapidly deployed for use in screening and detection at any major system in the country. Read more about this unique approach to security screening
Conducted in partnership with DOT, Amtrak, the Maryland Rail Commuter, and the Washington DC Metro Transit Authority, the Transit and Rail Inspection Pilot used advanced explosives detection equipment and canine patrols to screen thousands of passengers and...Directly from the TSA: http://www.tsa.gov/what_we_do/layers/rail/index.shtm
TSA Unveils Mobile Security Checkpoint Pilot Program with Maryland Transit Authority
Hanover, Md. – The Transportation Security Administration (TSA), in partnership with the Maryland Transit Administration (MTA), today announced a Mobile Security Checkpoint (MSC) pilot program to screen MARC passengers and their bags for explosive material. Passenger screening will be conducted at the Dorsey Road MARC commuter rail station, April 4-28, 2006. Screening will occur every weekday for four weeks between 5 a.m. and 9 a.m.
Also directly from the TSA: http://www.tsa.gov/press/releases/2006/press_release_04032006.shtm
And then there's this....
Through the Transit Security Grant Program (TSGP), DHS has allocated $547 million to date to 60 of the Nation's mass transit and passenger rail systems in 25 states and the District of Columbia. As substantive lead for the program, TSA employs a risk-based prioritization in determining eligible passenger rail and transit agencies, funding allocations, and evaluations for award. This approach applies TSGP resources to generate the highest return on investment and, as a result, strengthen the security of the Nation's transit systems in the most effective and efficient manner.
From the TSA: http://www.tsa.gov/what_we_do/tsnm/mass_transit/sec_baseline.shtm
Like I said, "Coming soon to bus/train depot near you."
What is it about closet and non-closet liberals that they jump to deny government overreach and violations of our constitutional protections. Distrust of government is one major basis of our founding. Power corrupts, and our founders knew that all too well.
U.S Constitution
Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Emphasis added for the constitutionally challenged.
My sister wanted me to fly to Cleveland for Thanksgiving. I am not flying!!!
Quote from: Patriot on November 17, 2010, 04:43:41 PM
And then there's this....
Through the Transit Security Grant Program (TSGP), DHS has allocated $547 million to date to 60 of the Nation's mass transit and passenger rail systems in 25 states and the District of Columbia. As substantive lead for the program, TSA employs a risk-based prioritization in determining eligible passenger rail and transit agencies, funding allocations, and evaluations for award. This approach applies TSGP resources to generate the highest return on investment and, as a result, strengthen the security of the Nation's transit systems in the most effective and efficient manner.
From the TSA: http://www.tsa.gov/what_we_do/tsnm/mass_transit/sec_baseline.shtm
Like I said, "Coming soon to bus/train depot near you."
What is it about closet and non-closet liberals that they jump to deny government overreach and violations of our constitutional protections. Distrust of government is one major basis of our founding. Power corrupts, and our founders knew that all too well.
U.S Constitution
Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Emphasis added for the constitutionally challenged.
Then don't fly... you have the right to walk across the country... you do not have the right to drive or fly or whatever else... they are privileges. With those privileges come responsibilities.
Quote from: jerry wagner on November 17, 2010, 05:56:33 PM
Then don't fly... you have the right to walk across the country... you do not have the right to drive or fly or whatever else... they are privileges. With those privileges come responsibilities.
Wrong jerry.... Courts do not agree.
"Even the legislature has no power to deny to a citizen the right to travel upon the highway and transport his property in the ordinary course of his business or pleasure, though this right may be regulated in accordance with the public interest and convenience." Chicago Motor Coach v. Chicago, 169 NE 22.
("Regulated" here means traffic safety enforcement: stop lights, signs, etc.)
"The right of the citizen to travel upon the public highways and to transport his property thereon, either by carriage or by automobile, is not a mere privilege which a city may prohibit at will, but a common right which he has under the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Thompson v. Smith, 154 SE 179.
It could not be stated more conclusively that citizens of the states have a right to travel, without approval or restrictions (license), and that this right is protected under the U.S. Constitution. Here are other court decisions that expound the same facts:
"The right to travel is a part of the liberty of which the citizen cannot be deprived without due process of law under the 5th Amendment." Kent v. Dulles, 357 US 116, 125.
"Undoubtedly the right of locomotion, the right to move from one place to another according to inclination, is an attribute of personal liberty, and the right, ordinarily, of free transit from or through the territory of any State is a right secured by the 14th amendment and by other provisions of the Constitution." Schactman v. Dulles, 96 App DC 287, 293.
Like I said~~ its all about control not safety. If you want safe air travel you do what El Al does. That involves profiling not patting.
But ..if you want to control the people, push them around, and appease the politically correct muslim lovers in this country, you do what the TSA, (Thousands Standing Around), is doing.
Here is what El Al terminals do:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Al
Passengers are asked to report three hours before departure. All El Al terminals around the world are closely monitored for security. There are plain-clothes agents and fully armed police or military personnel who patrol the premises for explosives, suspicious behavior, and other threats. Inside the terminal, passengers and their baggage are checked by a trained team. El Al security procedures require that all passengers be interviewed individually prior to boarding, allowing El Al staff to identify possible security threats. Passengers will be asked questions about where they are coming from, the reason for their trip, their job or occupation, and whether they have packed their bags themselves. The likelihood of potential terrorists remaining calm under such questioning is believed to be low (see microexpression).[38]
At the check-in counter, passengers' passports and tickets are closely examined. A ticket without a sticker from the security checkers will not be accepted. At passport control passengers' names are checked against information from the FBI, Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS), Scotland Yard, Shin Bet, and Interpol databases. Luggage is screened and sometimes hand searched. In addition, bags are put through a decompression chamber simulating pressures during flight that could trigger explosives.[39] El Al is the only airline in the world that passes all luggage through such a chamber.[40] Even at overseas airports, El Al security agents conduct all luggage searches personally, even if they are supervised by government or private security firms.[41]
Undercover agents (sometimes referred to as sky marshals) carrying concealed firearms sit among the passengers on every international El Al flight.[42] All El Al pilots are former Israeli Air Force pilots.[43] The cockpits in all El Al aircraft have double doors to prevent entry by unauthorized persons. A code is required to access the doors, and the second door will only be opened after the first has closed and the person has been identified by the captain or first officer.[43] Frthermore, there are reinforced steel floors separating the passenger cabin from the baggage hold.[44]
El Al is widely acknowledged as the world's most secure airline, after foiling many attempted hijackings and terror attacks through its security protocols.[2][3]
On 26 December of the same year, two PFLP members attacked an El Al aircraft at Athens International Airport, killing an Israeli mechanic.[13] The Israeli Defense Forces responded to the incident on 29 December, with a night-time raid on Lebanon's Beirut Airport, destroying 14 planes on the ground belonging to Middle East Airlines, Trans Mediterranean Airways and Lebanese International Airways.[14] The military action was responsible for the demise of the LIA, which had most of its fleet destroyed.
Heaven forbid that we even would think of suggesting we do what El Al does. That is simple, cost effective, and it works. This is the United States government we're talking about.
Your odds of being killed by a terrorist are extremely low. The Patriot act is a farce, along with the TSA. There are many things that are more likely to kill you in America than a terrorist attack. We have many more dangerous things in the world that we should be spending our money on than terrorism and fake security from TSA agents. This happens due to our nature of reacting and not unerstanding the real odds of a threat. I would rather strip naked than get a super dose of radiation or be groped by a TSA agent. This is just another example of the government spending our money for a useless "benefit"
Sodbuster: I'm assuming you're a Mister, not a Miss, so Mr. please leave your clothes on. No one wants to see that.
Teresa: When you go through the full body scan, make sure you get extra pictures to post on the forum.
Jerry: I'm sure you love getting groped by the Canadian Mounties, but seeings how you haven't been in America for a long time (quite frankly you haven't been gone long enough) we here in Elk County think we have been groped, beaten and bent over by the Government long enough. What do you think, eh hoser?
Mr. KsHillbilly
Patriot don't waste your time trying to insult me. Your opinion of me has no value. It means nothing. You gave an example of a 4 month program from 2006? That's the dark ages when it comes to security. The subject was personal searches ,not getting a few licks on Diane. Train security is different, no hassle for the passengers unless there is a plausible threat .Can you speak from experience? When was your last trip by train? We go to DC by train occasionally and went to Boston last May by train.They profile. I was never touched or had to take off shoes or open my purse, nothing. It was no stress all the way. Unfortunately flying is no longer fun and is a pain. I agree with Teresa on that. Now go insult someone else, it won't work on me.
Quote from: kshillbillys on November 17, 2010, 07:50:00 PM
Sodbuster: I'm assuming you're a Mister, not a Miss, so Mr. please leave your clothes on. No one wants to see that.
Teresa: When you go through the full body scan, make sure you get extra pictures to post on the forum.
Jerry: I'm sure you love getting groped by the Canadian Mounties, but seeings how you haven't been in America for a long time (quite frankly you haven't been gone long enough) we here in Elk County think we have been groped, beaten and bent over by the Government long enough. What do you think, eh hoser?
Mr. KsHillbilly
WTF ever... I have about as much use for your opinion as you do for mine, but you didn't actually provide an argument to anything.
Listen to this: "My freely chosen bedmates and doctors are the only ones allowed to see my naked body or touch my genitalia." For a sane person in a sane country that's the ultimate in "no shit, Sherlock" statement. But not where I live.
Not the United States of America. Not since 11 September 2001, when the government reacted to an attack on its citizens by lashing out against the very citizenry it claims to protect. No bureaucracy better embodies that reactionary principle than the Transportation Security Administration (TSA), whose contempt for American citizens has grown so great that they now require we submit to government agents either photographing our, to them, visibly naked bodies or groping us in molestation-style pat downs if we ever want to fly again.
I'm sick of the craven cliches TSA apologists have cited these past nine years:
"They protect us from terrorists."
No, they impose pointlessly superstitious security theater, trample Americans' constitutional rights and make foreigners feel sorry for us. TSA protected nobody with its infamous "bathroom bans" after last year's Christmas terror attempt; rules like "keep your lap empty and your hands visible at all times" only demonstrated the agency's willingness to treat ordinary citizens like serial killers in supermax prison.
"You gave up your rights when you bought an airline ticket."
I never gave up any rights. The government stole them while cowards egged them on.
Read the rest of this article...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/nov/17/tsa-patdowns-scanner
Quote from: Teresa on November 17, 2010, 08:12:16 PM
Listen to this: "My freely chosen bedmates and doctors are the only ones allowed to see my naked body or touch my genitalia." For a sane person in a sane country that's the ultimate in "no shit, Sherlock" statement. But not where I live.
Not the United States of America. Not since 11 September 2001, when the government reacted to an attack on its citizens by lashing out against the very citizenry it claims to protect. No bureaucracy better embodies that reactionary principle than the Transportation Security Administration (TSA), whose contempt for American citizens has grown so great that they now require we submit to government agents either photographing our, to them, visibly naked bodies or groping us in molestation-style pat downs if we ever want to fly again.
I'm sick of the craven cliches TSA apologists have cited these past nine years:
"They protect us from terrorists."
No, they impose pointlessly superstitious security theater, trample Americans' constitutional rights and make foreigners feel sorry for us. TSA protected nobody with its infamous "bathroom bans" after last year's Christmas terror attempt; rules like "keep your lap empty and your hands visible at all times" only demonstrated the agency's willingness to treat ordinary citizens like serial killers in supermax prison.
"You gave up your rights when you bought an airline ticket."
I never gave up any rights. The government stole them while cowards egged them on.
Read the rest of this article...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/nov/17/tsa-patdowns-scanner
I agree to a point... I support some of the security measures for air travel, although not most but I realize that they can constitutionally regulate that travel. I do not support many of the measures used especially the warrantless wiretaps, etc. Those I find the most offensive.
Patriot: I don't see where you were insulting to anyone but some people have to make it all about them, on any post. Keep up the good work.---Robert
P.S. Jerry: I didn't provide an argument to anything? Are you saying you like to be groped by the Canadian Mounties? hmmm...interesting.--Mr. KsHillbilly
Quote from: kshillbillys on November 17, 2010, 08:27:19 PM
Patriot: I don't see where you were insulting to anyone but some people have to make it all about them, on any post. Keep up the good work.---Robert
P.S. Jerry: I didn't provide an argument to anything? Are you saying you like to be groped by the Canadian Mounties? hmmm...interesting.--Mr. KsHillbilly
LOL Mounties don't grope.... you don't need to be searched to enter public buildings up to and including Parliament Hill. A simple metal detector suffices.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on November 17, 2010, 08:00:28 PM
Patriot don't waste your time trying to insult me. Your opinion of me has no value. It means nothing. You gave an example of a 4 month program from 2006? That's the dark ages when it comes to security. The subject was personal searches ,not getting a few licks on Diane. Train security is different, no hassle for the passengers unless there is a plausible threat .Can you speak from experience? When was your last trip by train? We go to DC by train occasionally and went to Boston last May by train.They profile. I was never touched or had to take off shoes or open my purse, nothing. It was no stress all the way. Unfortunately flying is no longer fun and is a pain. I agree with Teresa on that. Now go insult someone else, it won't work on me.
I fully realize that ignorance of fact/history/human nature can't be insulted, diane. As to insulting you not working... Seems even the perception of an insult works... otherwise you would not have even responded/reacted. I only wish that innocent blindness didn't have such a loud voice in our country. If you, or anyone else misses the "scanners ready to be quickly deployed" theme in the TSAs forward looking plans, then shame on you. As to syntax, I said 'coming soon', I didn't say it's 'here now'. Learn something from the history of those in positions of power and influence. The TSA will likely follow that course of history and expand their influence/intrusion unless stopped in advance. As Teresa said, it's about power & control, not security. The articles I cited only show that they are already preparing to so expand. Again: Intrusive screening, coming soon to a bus/train depot near you.
You know you are dealing with a liberal when you present them with facts and they begin blowing steam from their bodily orifices.
Quote from: kshillbillys on November 17, 2010, 08:27:19 PM
Patriot: I don't see where you were insulting to anyone but some people have to make it all about them, on any post. Keep up the good work.---Robert
Thanks. Sometimes facts appear to the uninformed/ignorant as an insult/attack. Emotional/personalized reactions are usually a dead giveaway that the uninformed/ignorant are determined to stay that way.
Quote from: jerry wagner on November 17, 2010, 08:35:50 PM
LOL Mounties don't grope....
Nope, they fondle! IF you can get them away from the horse and the Labatt Blue.
Nasty won't do it either pal. If you can't attack the issue, attack the person? When were you ever patted down or touched or had your baggage examined while boarding a train? There are no limits on how much liquid you can carry, or how many bags you. If and when it changes I'll gripe too.Talking mean to me won't change anything.
It took only four words to set you off again ..
I totally agreed with Teresa ,but no, you go off in a snit about my being teacher? What does that have to do with anything? Completely off the subject! (Ya wanna know about real Israeli airport security and how it works? Ask me. I can give it to you from someone who just returned from there. But you can't stand it that I might really know about something.)
Flying used to be fun. I've flown all over the country for many, many years, sometimes even without the broom. My point being that people ARE fighting back by taking the train whenever they can. What, by the way is "nievte?"Are you showing me a fist? Weird. No, I m not going to be driven off here, so do your worst. This forum is not your personal property to abuse as you wish and you will not turn it into a bullies club house if I have anything to do with it. Argue issues all you want, but as soon as you make a personal attack, then you've lost the strength of your issue and show you really don't have any, or any more facts or substance.Then you turn into nothing more than a playground bully. Now why is that? Is that what you really want? Your fan club, the people who stand along the sideline and encourage you are the same way. They have nothing of substance to say about the issue themselves, so they encourage the bully to go fight it out and make personal attacks while they vicariously enjoy it all at no risk to themselves. Perhaps I should just start reprinting moderate bloggers over and over and never risk my own hide. As it is now I'm brave enough to speak for myself.
So what are the Repubs. gonna do about it. If what they did yesterday about cutting Gov't spending is any indication, I'm not impressed that they will do anything about this either. Plenty of political talk but when it comes to getting their hands dirty they bailed out. Can't upset all the people they owe or all the back room deals that they made during the mid term to get where they are now. Uh, where is that anyway? I'm beginning to hate politics in general.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on November 18, 2010, 10:11:56 AM
Nasty won't do it either pal. If you can't attack the issue, attack the person? When were you ever patted down or touched or had your baggage examined while boarding a train? There are no limits on how much liquid you can carry, or how many bags you. If and when it changes I'll gripe too.Talking mean to me won't change anything.
It took only four words to set you off again ..
I totally agreed with Teresa ,but no, you go off in a snit about my being teacher? What does that have to do with anything? Completely off the subject! (Ya wanna know about real Israeli airport security and how it works? Ask me. I can give it to you from someone who just returned from there. But you can't stand it that I might really know about something.)
Flying used to be fun. I've flown all over the country for many, many years, sometimes even without the broom. My point being that people ARE fighting back by taking the train whenever they can. What, by the way is "nievte?"Are you showing me a fist? Weird. No, I m not going to be driven off here, so do your worst. This forum is not your personal property to abuse as you wish and you will not turn it into a bullies club house if I have anything to do with it. Argue issues all you want, but as soon as you make a personal attack, then you've lost the strength of your issue and show you really don't have any, or any more facts or substance.Then you turn into nothing more than a playground bully. Now why is that? Is that what you really want? Your fan club, the people who stand along the sideline and encourage you are the same way. They have nothing of substance to say about the issue themselves, so they encourage the bully to go fight it out and make personal attacks while they vicariously enjoy it all at no risk to themselves. Perhaps I should just start reprinting moderate bloggers over and over and never risk my own hide. As it is now I'm brave enough to speak for myself.
So what are the Repubs. gonna do about it. If what they did yesterday about cutting Gov't spending is any indication, I'm not impressed that they will do anything about this either. Plenty of political talk but when it comes to getting their hands dirty they bailed out. Can't upset all the people they owe or all the back room deals that they made during the mid term to get where they are now. Uh, where is that anyway? I'm beginning to hate politics in general.
Touchy, touchy, touchy. What was that about a 'snit'? See what I meant about emotional reactions?
You should know, you have 'em all the time. >:( You simply will not debate issues so I'll go. Don't you have to go tip cows or something?
Quote from: Diane Amberg on November 18, 2010, 10:20:41 AM
You should know, you have 'em all the time. >:( You simply will not debate issues so I'll go. Don't you have to go tip cows or something?
Nice to see you so able to live up to your standards in re personal attacks.
See what I mean about steam? Facts just suck, don't they?
God bless, and have a wonderful afternoon. ;D
Buh, bye!
Ron Paul had it right...as usual....
Quote from: Teresa on November 18, 2010, 12:22:25 PM
Ron Paul had it right...as usual....
AMEN, Teresa! And expand the phrase "Don't touch my junk" to include private property, our childrens minds, our wealth (estates), our health, and a host of other things.
It just seems that this whole thing is getting worse by the day.
There is only one way to be safe in the air, and that is to profile. Based on nothing more than the fact that while not all Muslims are terrorists... most all terrorists are in fact Muslim.
Until we not just recognize this simple fact, but act on it... this kind of silly, stupid, overpriced nonsense will continue.
This is yet again a perfect example of how political correctness is destroying this country from within. The world without question has to be laughing at us. Quite frankly, I don't blame them. The entire matter has turned into a really sad.. stupid joke.
Many, many things are snowballing daily in a crazy downward spiral, Teresa. But, by way of encouragement, I read the last chapter of the last book.... We win in the end. Keep your head lifted up, your eye on the prize, your powder dry and keep on keepin' on. :)
Teresa, again I agree, but then why don't they (us ) do something about it? Stop talking and do something! Strike the airlines. Follow the Israeli model. Is it because TSA provides jobs?Is it because the right people are making big bucks or have power and influence? The conservatives, Repubs. aren't doing anything either excepting talking about it. None of them will do something. Hence back to my earlier comment about the trains. Ron Paul didn't mention them , or buses ,or ships or water taxis or trolleys or subways or cable cars or ferries or any of the other forms of transportation used in this country. Why not? Probably because they are all still civil to their passengers and see them as customers. A concerted effort to blow up the Washington State Ferry System could just about cripple Seattle, but all we hear about are the airplanes. I don't have answers either, just lots of questions.
Quote from: Patriot on November 18, 2010, 09:05:26 AM
Nope, they fondle! IF you can get them away from the horse and the Labatt Blue.
Is this ridiculous post necessary?
Quote from: jerry wagner on November 18, 2010, 03:14:19 PM
Is this ridiculous post necessary?
No more or less than the ridiculous posts that led up to it, I suppose.
Now that I've answered your question, how about you answer my original question and 2 new ones, eh.
1. Why would you ask about the ridiculous post unless you desire to suppress free speech?
2. Why would you, an exemplary US citizen, want to stifle free speech?
3. Since you've taken residence in a foreign country, do you vote in US elections.
Now, while you attempt to form some cogent answers, I'm gonna go tip a cow somewhere in the northeast.
;D ;D ;D :angel:
Quote from: Patriot on November 18, 2010, 04:11:48 PM
No more or less than the ridiculous posts that led up to it, I suppose.
Now that I've answered your question, how about you answer my original question and 2 new ones, eh.
1. Why would you ask about the ridiculous post unless you desire to suppress free speech?
2. Why would you, an exemplary US citizen, want to stifle free speech?
3. Since you've taken residence in a foreign country, do you vote in US elections.
Now, while you attempt to form some cogent answers, I'm gonna go tip a cow somewhere in the northeast.
If you want to waste your right to free speech insulting people, go right ahead so long as you don't commit libel in the process. I find it demeaning and a complete waste of time. It displays a lack of intellect when one has to revert to insulting things about which they have little information instead of providing some kind of intelligent comment. I have no desire to stifle free speech, although I do believe that there is a correct manner to conduct one's self when speaking/writing to others. I do not vote in US elections currently, but how again is that relevant unless you want to stifle free speech. My residence is not relevant. BTW prove that every other person who posts in the 'Politics' section votes, please do.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on November 18, 2010, 02:01:07 PM
Teresa, again I agree, but then why don't they (us ) do something about it? Stop talking and do something! Strike the airlines. Follow the Israeli model. Is it because TSA provides jobs?Is it because the right people are making big bucks or have power and influence? The conservatives, Repubs. aren't doing anything either excepting talking about it. None of them will do something. Hence back to my earlier comment about the trains. Ron Paul didn't mention them , or buses ,or ships or water taxis or trolleys or subways or cable cars or ferries or any of the other forms of transportation used in this country. Why not? Probably because they are all still civil to their passengers and see them as customers. A concerted effort to blow up the Washington State Ferry System could just about cripple Seattle, but all we hear about are the airplanes. I don't have answers either, just lots of questions.
Right now... it seems that we..as human citizens ..can't do much. Other than verbally rebel. Unless of course you don't want to fly ( which I don't) but more times than not..we also have 4 days only to get to an event.. film it and get back home to edit and run it for viewing.
Our hands are tied. The TSA big cheese was on Fox last night and he said that they're NOT changing their form of "security handling". Hannity specifically mentioned the way that the Israelis successfully handled it.. and why didn't we use dogs and profile and copy their map on this.
He just looked blankly at him and ignored that ..once again spouting his rhetoric about since 9-11 we have had to .. blah blah blah... and that this keeps everyone safe.. blah blah blah... and we will continue to use the "x-ray machines and the pat downs".. and on and on..
To me and I'm sure most Americans..this attitude and their policy goes a long way in showing the flying public what the TSA thinks about their rights.
Police and Military are instructed not to follow illegal orders. An x-ray or a grope is an illegal search without cause so I think we all feel and rightly so... that our rights are being grossly violated.They say that they "inform" you of what they are doing. Now.. by informing you..that is NOT asking your permission.. Because I'm pretty sure that most people if ask.. would say no to some stranger fondling and groping around on their crotches and breasts.. ( with the excuseof " Well.. I'm keeping everyone safe by doing this"..
I know that if asked I couldn't put my hand inside another mans pants and feel up his family package..or run my hands inside and around a woman vagina area without a hell of a lawsuit..
So........Where do we draw the line?
As I said earlier .. time and schedules leave some people with no choice but to fly if they are to continue working a job that requires travel.
I once again go back to my original argument. None of this will nail Mohammad with his backside packed full of RDX, will it? If these guys pack dead children's bodies with I.E.D.'s to kill our guys~ do you think their rear end is off limits when they walk on a plane?
These scanners cannot detect plastic. They don't know it from a turd. Neither will the off the street morons on the monitor.
And another thing while I'm on my bitch box...
It really irritates me for those who say.. "well then don't fly.. if you don't want to blindly follow their rules.."
Tell THAT to the father of a 13 yr old girl who is having to have her crotch and breasts groped and fondled 4 TIMES by a 250 pound government worker with the I.Q. of room temperature. The whole thing is totally insane.
How can anyone think that we should just "go along" with this?!?
That is the whole viewpoint of everything anymore! Starting with the Hussein administration and Pelosi.
This whole "go along to get along" attitude is foolish and stupid when the whole concept is totally flawed and backward to begin with. The TSA.. our government... and the idiot's who choose to work for it ARE WRONG! PERIOD! Going along with them isn't going to make anyone "safer". It's like gun control. The entire concept is flawed from the get go because they don't understand the problem. Good intentions won't buy you shit against radical Islam or anyone else who wants to kill you. You need a good system and people to administrate it. We have neither one at this point.
And a President who doesn't have a clue or the desire how to obtain it because he is trying to be too politically correct.
What's next... ?
If they get by with this... What is next??
Quote from: jerry wagner on November 18, 2010, 05:31:39 PM
If you want to waste your right to free speech insulting people, go right ahead so long as you don't commit libel in the process. I find it demeaning and a complete waste of time. It displays a lack of intellect when one has to revert to insulting things about which they have little information instead of providing some kind of intelligent comment. I have no desire to stifle free speech, although I do believe that there is a correct manner to conduct one's self when speaking/writing to others. I do not vote in US elections currently, but how again is that relevant unless you want to stifle free speech. My residence is not relevant. BTW prove that every other person who posts in the 'Politics' section votes, please do.
I vote.
And just to clarify, I have not voted as I have not registered to receive an Absentee ballot as a US citizen living abroad, which I am permitted to do.
Quote from: Teresa on November 18, 2010, 01:01:14 PM
It just seems that this whole thing is getting worse by the day.
There is only one way to be safe in the air, and that is to profile. Based on nothing more than the fact that while not all Muslims are terrorists... most all terrorists are in fact Muslim.
Until we not just recognize this simple fact, but act on it... this kind of silly, stupid, overpriced nonsense will continue.
This is yet again a perfect example of how political correctness is destroying this country from within. The world without question has to be laughing at us. Quite frankly, I don't blame them. The entire matter has turned into a really sad.. stupid joke.
Bless you, Teresa..... PROFILE.... PROFILE.... PROFILE! It is the only answer to safer airways. The Israeli's have been very successful doing it for years.
WARPH ALERT....... WARPH ALERT.......... WARPH ALERT.......
THIS JUST IN:
From the desk of Janet Napolitano:
Re: Recruitment and training of TSA airport screeners.
It has come to my attention that some of our TSA employees have expressed a certain amount of discomfort with the use of full-body scans and the accompanying "grope the rope" or "press the chest" searches that are mandatory for those opting out of our high-powered (but perfectly safe) X-ray machines. While I appreciate that the use of any new technology may be somewhat disconcerting at first, it is our obligation to make sure that we perform our assigned function flawlessly, without regard for our personal feelings for the manner in which we conduct ourselves on the job.
To expedite this flawless function, I am immediately implementing the following hiring and training policies for our personnel. Please be advised that Attorney General Eric Holder has reviewed these policies and assures me that they are both legal and Constitutional, and that President Obuma has personally expressed to me his full support for these policies.
1) In all future background checks, we will now give preference to individuals who have arrest and/or conviction records for such offenses as indecent exposure, voyeurism and contributing to the delinquency of a minor. It is the finding of our psychology department that these individuals will be far less likely to flinch from performing their required duties while taking nude X-ray pictures and feeling up passengers. Additionally, any individual who has been successfully sued for sexual harassment should be given preference in the hiring process, especially if the harassment in question involved "inappropriate" touching. It is the finding of this office that such individuals have the moxie to do what needs to be done to accomplish our mission. Finally, extra preference should be given to any individual who meets the above criteria AND is sexually oriented towards members of his/her own gender. It is our belief that these individuals will be highly motivated to provide an extra-thorough touch to their job performance.
2) For those screeners who still blanch at doing their duty for their country due to "moral scruples" or other such nonsense, our psychologists have developed a training regimen which they assure me will bring them around in a hurry. These screeners will be required to view no fewer than four (4) consecutive hours of same-sex pornography (the gender of the performers will be the same as the gender of the TSA screener) at least twice a week. It is the view of our psychologists that repeated exposure to this material will, over time, break down these screeners reluctance to "get a grip" on their job duties, and thus improve their performance.
3) As per our previous guidelines, please be aware that the following groups are considered especially dangerous, and should receive extra attention from our new screening procedures:
a) U.S. military personnel returning from war zones or headed to war zones.
b) Individuals wearing garb readily identifiable as christian clergy.
c) Individuals sporting any button, decal, t-shirt, hat, logo, etc. identifying themselves as members of the "Tea Party" movement.
d) Elderly or disabled persons using metallic walkers, canes or braces of any sort.
e) Boy Scouts.
4) As per previous guidelines, please be aware that any individual wearing readily identifiable Muslim garb is NOT to be subjected to this screening process for ANY reason. This process is, of course, highly objectionable to practitioners of the peaceable religion of Islam, and could well be construed as profiling. Any TSA screener found to have coerced or attempted to coerce any Muslim to submit to these screening procedures is subject to immediate termination and criminal prosecution.
I hope and expect these new recruitment tools and training tips will be of the utmost value in carrying out our ongoing mission. Remember, only you can prevent profiling.
Sincerely,
Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano
Quote from: Teresa on November 18, 2010, 06:08:47 PM
And another thing while I'm on my bitch box...
It really irritates me for those who say.. "well then don't fly.. if you don't want to blindly follow their rules.."
Tell THAT to the father of a 13 yr old girl who is having to have her crotch and breasts groped and fondled 4 TIMES by a 250 pound government worker with the I.Q. of room temperature. The whole thing is totally insane.
How can anyone think that we should just "go along" with this?!?
That is the whole viewpoint of everything anymore! Starting with the Hussein administration and Pelosi.
This whole "go along to get along" attitude is foolish and stupid when the whole concept is totally flawed and backward to begin with. The TSA.. our government... and the idiot's who choose to work for it ARE WRONG! PERIOD! Going along with them isn't going to make anyone "safer". It's like gun control. The entire concept is flawed from the get go because they don't understand the problem. Good intentions won't buy you shit against radical Islam or anyone else who wants to kill you. You need a good system and people to administrate it. We have neither one at this point.
And a President who doesn't have a clue or the desire how to obtain it because he is trying to be too politically correct.
What's next... ?
If they get by with this... What is next??
Hmmmm....Several comments come to mind..... My 3-step solution....
1: If EVERY air traveler was issued a .45 ACP caliber handgun and a full clip with the boarding pass, everybody would sit quietly, reading a book for the full flight.
2: Why not require that every traveler eat a ham sandwich before boarding?
3: Suppose we all borrowed from the Meg Ryan orgasm scene in "When Harry Met Sally" during their pat-down?
1 and 2 would certainly discourage Muslim terrorists, and 3 would discourage the TSA.
Private Screening Companies?? I dunno. Seriously tho'... It doesn't matter who they choose to do the screening.... they must follow the exact same SOP that TSA follows, set by DHS, unfortunately. Most people can't tell the difference in a TSA screening and that of a private security company, it has been said. One that comes to mind is SFO. The real problem is with DHS. They control the content of the SOP.
Soooo.... I think I like my idea best.
A good article on private screeners: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hkv8DAy2qgKuuVCICy6HASaKlFFQ?docId=c5e727bff09845e393608ea000909811
Unfortunately the "alternative" company didn't make it. They jumped in before they were ready and failed. They were undercapitalized and had to declare bankruptcy early on.You may remember them, they started up right after TSA did. You would have to go through a one time in depth back ground check ,photo, passport check and screening and would have been issued a secure pass with a chip in it something like a drivers license and then go through a totally different area at the airport with no searches. It was meant for business people, etc. who travel constantly and would have been ideal for someone like Teresa. Perhaps someone like them will try that approach again.
Look its real simple, if you want to stop the "terrorists" then kill the terrorists! This TSA pat down and scanners haven't stopped a damn thing. Not one. The only thing they have accomplished is restricting the freedoms of the citizens of this country. Which is EXACTLY what the muslims community wants as well as our own gov't. Do you honestly believe that our gov't is doing all it can to stop terrorist attacks against us? If you do then you're a fool. Just look at the so called Rules of Engagement our boys have to follow. My God, we are giving terrorist combatants civilivan trials for crying out loud! Something else I would like to point out. This story has just come to the mainstream recently and is a "hot topic". However, alternative news sources and blogs (such as infowars.com) have been covering this same story for quite a while. But of course they were labeled as 'crazy conspiracy theorist". It is high time that the citizens of this country wake up to what is really happening in our country, and around the world. People who say "just don't fly, its not a Right afterall, its a priviledge" provide a clear illustration of just how effective the indoctration agenda of the "powers that be" has become.
I have some guy friends who have been talking about this alot.. as they also have to do a lot of flying.. Have to pass on what one said.. LOL
I think we should all fly as much as possible and pop a double dose of Viagra before going to the airport. When they grab your junk you'll sproing up like a giant bed spring then all the burka wearing TSA agents will have to retire since they can't look. It would greatly increase membership in the mile high club too.
Another nice touch is to bean up and fart when they touch your junk.
This could be fun.
Personally, I think private security companies will go after the job contracts really quick. Not all airports use TSA, they just have to be to TSA "standards." Also I was just told that not everyone will be patted or touched. Most will still go through the scanners, but a person would be pulled aside if the scanner "sees" something or the metal detector repeatedly goes off and can't be cleared or you get caught as a "random" pick, however that works. I don't know who to believe. Some of the smaller airports like Midway are much more casual, but the big International airports like O'Hare are the pits. So far we've been treated very well, but Teresa has flown since I have, so she would know better. If we decide to fly to Puerto Rico I'll let you know how it went. Maybe we'll take the train to Florida and then a ship to Puerto Rico instead. ;)
Glad I don't fly. Simply put I would be going to jail for assualt. This is insanity. You opt not to fly and still get searched.
TSA Warns Travelers May Be Arrested, Detained, and Fined for Refusing Search
Kurt Nimmo
Infowars.com
November 20, 2010
You will not be allowed to leave an airport until the government forces you to answer questions about why you refuse to have your genitalia groped.
In response to growing outrage over naked body scanners and intrusive pat down searches of the private parts of air travelers, the TSA is warning Americans that they may be arrested and fined $11,000 if they refuse to cooperate with the agency's invasive and humiliating techniques.
The TSA warns that any "would-be commercial airline passenger" who enters an airport checkpoint and refuses to be subjected to "the method of inspection designated by the TSA will not be allowed to fly and also will not be permitted to simply leave the airport" (emphasis added).
The TSA will work with local police in order to make sure the person remains on the premises and answers questions. "Anyone refusing faces fines up to $11,000 and possible arrest," reports the Palm Beach Post.
"Once a person submits to the screening process, they can not just decide to leave that process," Sari Koshetz, regional TSA spokesperson, told the Florida newspaper. The policy includes people who decide not to fly.
Teri Barbera, a spokesperson for the Palm Beach Sheriff's office, said local police would assist the TSA in preventing people from leaving the airport. "We will handle each incident on a case-by-case basis," said Barbera. "The deputies will do it at the airport just as they would do it anywhere else."
On Wednesday, TSA boss John S. Pistole testified before Congress on the controversy brewing over the fact airports have become areas where the Bill of Rights no longer applies. Pistole said the TSA will enforce the new policies despite complaints that the search methods are too invasive and a violation of the Fourth Amendment.
Senator John Ensign, a Nevada Republican, asked Pistole about groups that objected to all forms of bodily search on religious grounds. "While we respect that person's beliefs, that person's not going to get on an airplane," said the TSA boss.
Now the TSA has announced it will also enlist local police to detain people who refuse dangerous naked body scans and molestation of their private parts.
In addition to not being permitted to board a commercial plane, they will also be interrogated by agents of the federal government. If not cleared by government bureaucrats, they will presumably be arrested and charged with a crime and fined $11,000.
By John Lantigua Palm Beach Post
8:59 a.m. EST, November 20, 2010
If you don't want to pass through an airport scanner that allows security agents to see an image of your naked body or to undergo the alternative, a thorough manual search, you may have to find another way to travel this holiday season.
The Transportation Security Administration (TSA) is warning that any would-be commercial airline passenger who enters an airport checkpoint and then refuses to undergo the method of inspection designated by TSA will not be allowed to fly and also will not be permitted to simply leave the airport.
That person will have to remain on the premises to be questioned by the TSA and possibly by local law enforcement. Anyone refusing faces fines up to $11,000 and possible arrest.
Click to get the latest Business headlines sent to your phone
"Once a person submits to the screening process, they can not just decide to leave that process," says Sari Koshetz, regional TSA spokesperson, based in Miami.
Koshetz said such passengers would be questioned "until it is determined that they don't pose a threat" to the public.
No one will be forcibly searched or arrested "just because they refuse to go through the security procedures," Barbera said. "That may rise to the level of suspicious behavior for the TSA, but it wouldn't rise to the level of suspicious behavior for a deputy," she said.
But Barbera said that if a person is judged to be a possible threat, deputies are legally permitted to detain and search that individual. "The deputies will do it at the airport just as they would do it anywhere else," she said.
Once cleared by the TSA and deputies, the people will be allowed to leave, she said.
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/business/sfl-airport-scans-pat-downs-refual-20101121,0,5604032.story
This is sick. Every single agent standing there should be charged with molestation. There is absolutely NO reason for this. And to make matters worse people are just standing around doing nothing about it.
A retired special education teacher on his way to a wedding in Orlando, Fla., said he was left humiliated, crying and covered with his own urine after an enhanced pat-down by TSA officers recently at Detroit Metropolitan Airport.
"I was absolutely humiliated, I couldn't even speak," said Thomas D. "Tom" Sawyer, 61, of Lansing, Mich.
Sawyer is a bladder cancer survivor who now wears a urostomy bag, which collects his urine from a stoma, or opening in his stomach. "I have to wear special clothes and in order to mount the bag I have to seal a wafer to my stomach and then attach the bag. If the seal is broken, urine can leak all over my body and clothes."
On Nov. 7, Sawyer said he went through the security scanner at Detroit Metropolitan Airport. "Evidently the scanner picked up on my urostomy bag, because I was chosen for a pat-down procedure."
Due to his medical condition, Sawyer asked to be screened in private. "One officer looked at another, rolled his eyes and said that they really didn't have any place to take me," said Sawyer. "After I said again that I'd like privacy, they took me to an office."
Sawyer wears pants two sizes too large in order to accommodate the medical equipment he wears. He'd taken off his belt to go through the scanner and once in the office with security personnel, his pants fell down around his ankles. "I had to ask twice if it was OK to pull up my shorts," said Sawyer, "And every time I tried to tell them about my medical condition, they said they didn't need to know about that."
Before starting the enhanced pat-down procedure, a security officer did tell him what they were going to do and how they were going to it, but Sawyer said it wasn't until they asked him to remove his sweatshirt and saw his urostomy bag that they asked any questions about his medical condition.
"One agent watched as the other used his flat hand to go slowly down my chest. I tried to warn him that he would hit the bag and break the seal on my bag, but he ignored me. Sure enough, the seal was broken and urine started dribbling down my shirt and my leg and into my pants."
The security officer finished the pat-down, tested the gloves for any trace of explosives and then, Sawyer said, "He told me I could go. They never apologized. They never offered to help. They acted like they hadn't seen what happened. But I know they saw it because I had a wet mark."
Humiliated, upset and wet, Sawyer said he had to walk through the airport soaked in urine, board his plane and wait until after takeoff before he could clean up.
"I am totally appalled by the fact that agents that are performing these pat-downs have so little concern for people with medical conditions," said Sawyer.
Sawyer completed his trip and had no problems with the security procedures at the Orlando International Airport on his journey back home. He said he plans to file a formal complaint with the TSA.
When he does, said TSA spokesperson Dwayne Baird, "We will review the matter and take appropriate action if necessary." In the meantime, Baird encourages anyone with a medical condition to read the TSA's website section on assistive devices and mobility aids.
The website says that travelers with disabilities and medical conditions have "the option of requesting a private screening" and that security officers "will not ask nor require you to remove your prosthetic device, cast, or support brace."
Sawyer said he's written to his senators, state representatives and the president of the United States. He's also shared details of the incident online with members of the nonprofit Bladder Cancer Advocacy Network, many of whom have offered support and shared their travel experiences.
"I am a good American and I want safety for all passengers as much as the next person," Sawyer said. "But if this country is going to sacrifice treating people like human beings in the name of safety, then we have already lost the war."
Bladder Cancer Advocacy Network executive director Claire Saxton said that there are hundreds of thousands of people living with ostomies in the United States. "TSA agents need to be trained to listen when someone tells them have a health issue and trained in knowing what an ostomy is. No one living with an ostomy should be afraid of flying because they're afraid of being humiliated at the checkpoint."
Eric Lipp, executive director of Open Doors Association, which works with businesses and the disability community, called what happened to Sawyer "unfortunate."
"But enhanced pat-downs are not a new issue for people with disabilities who travel," Lipp said. "They've always had trouble getting through the security checkpoint."
Still, Lipp said the TSA knows there's a problem. "This came up during a recent meeting of the agency's disability advisory board and I expect to see a procedure coming in place shortly that will directly address the pat-down procedures for people with disabilities."
By Suzanne Choney
msnbc.com msnbc.com
updated 11/20/2010 11:51:31 AM ET 2010-11-20T16:51:31
Share Print Font: +-A longtime Charlotte, N.C., flight attendant and cancer survivor told a local television station that she was forced to show her prosthetic breast during a pat-down.
Cathy Bossi, who works for U.S. Airways, said she received the pat-down after declining to do the full-body scan because of radiation concerns.
The TSA screener "put her full hand on my breast and said, 'What is this?' " Bossi told the station. "And I said, 'It's my prosthesis because I've had breast cancer.' And she said, 'Well, you'll need to show me that.' "
Bossi said she removed the prosthetic from her bra. She did not take the name of the agent, she said, "because it was just so horrific of an experience, I couldn't believe someone had done that to me. I'm a flight attendant. I was just trying to get to work."
For Americans who wear prosthetics — either because they are cancer survivors or have lost a limb — or who have undergone hip replacements or have a pacemaker, the humiliation of the TSA's new security procedures — choosing between a body scan or body search — is even worse.
Musa Mayer has worn a breast prosthesis for 21 years since her mastectomy and is used to the alarms it sets off at airport security. But nothing prepared her for the "invasive and embarrassing" experience of being patted down, poked and examined recently while passing through airport security at Dulles International Airport in Washington, D.C.
"I asked the supervisor if she realized that there are 3 million women who have had breast cancer in the U.S., many of whom wear breast prostheses. Will each of us now have to undergo this humiliating, time-consuming routine every time we pass through one of these new body scanners?" she said in an e-mail to msnbc.com.
'I was so humiliated'
Marlene McCarthy of Rhode Island said she went through the body scanner and was told by a TSA agent to step aside. In "full view of everyone," McCarthy said in an e-mail, the agent "immediately put the back of her hand on my right side chest and I explained I wore a prosthesis.
"Then, she put her full hands ... one on top and one on the bottom of my 'breast' and moved the prosthesis left, right, up, down and said 'OK.' I was so humiliated.
"I went to the desk area and complained," McCarthy wrote. "The woman there was very nice and I asked her if the training included an understanding of how prosthetics are captured on the scanner and told her the pat-down is embarrassing. She said, 'We have never even had that discussion and I do the training for the TSA employees here, following the standard manual provided.' She said she will bring it up at their next meeting."
If she has to go through the scanner again, McCarthy said, "I am determined to put the prosthesis in the gray bucket," provided to travelers at the security check-ins for items such as jewelry.
"Let the TSA scanners be embarrassed .... not me anymore!" she wrote.
Sharon Kiss, 66, has a pacemaker, but also has to fly often for her work.
"During a recent enhanced pat-down, a screener cupped my breasts and felt my genitals," she said in an e-mail to msnbc.com "To 'clear my waistband' she put her hands down my pants and groped for the waistband of my underwear.
"I expressed humiliation and was told 'You have the choice not to fly.' "
The remark infuriated Kiss, who lives in Mendocino, Calif. "Extrapolate this to we should not provide curb cuts and ramps for people confined to wheelchairs because they can choose to stay home ... This a violation of civil rights. And because I have a disability, I should not be subjected to what is government-sanctioned sexual assault in order to board a plane."
No planned changes to security
So far, the government is not letting up on the enhanced screening program. TSA administrator John Pistole said this week at a Congressional hearing on the matter that "reasonable people can disagree" on how to properly balance safety at the nation's airports, but that the new security measures are necessary because of intelligence on latest attack methods that might be used by terrorists.
Gail Mengel, of Blue Springs, Mo., is used to being patted down; she had a hip replacement five years ago.
"I admit that I was relieved when I flew last week and was able to spend a few seconds in front of the X-ray screen in Seattle and Denver," she said in an e-mail to msnbc.com. "I have heard medical experts say the level of radiation will not hurt us. And frankly I was happy to realize I won't have my body touched, patted and rubbed anymore.
"Unfortunately last weekend, I arrived at the New Orleans airport and learned that airport staff (was) still being trained in using the X-ray machine. Because my hip replacement sets off the security buzzer, I was faced with the new regulations."
While she is "used to" being patted down, "this experience was certainly much more personal, uncomfortable and embarrassing," she said. "Every part of my body was touched. I do not want to be harmed by radiation, but the experience was painless and quick compared to what I have faced over the last five years. I support security measures but I also hope we can be assured of safe procedures."
One man, from Nashville, wrote in an e-mail that "as a handicapped person, I am sick and tired of being 'raped' at the security line. I lose my crutches and leg orthotics to be 'nuked' by the X-ray machine. Then manhandled by the pat-down, followed by chemical swabbing for 'possible explosives.' ...Enough is enough."
Said Mayer, the longtime breast cancer survivor: "I am outraged that I will now be forced to show my prosthesis to strangers, remove it and put in the X-ray bin for screening, or not to wear it at all whenever I fly. To me, this seems unfairly discriminatory and embarrassing for me, and for all breast cancer survivors."
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I'd heard about these, first time I ever saw one though. ;D Hope all the gunpowder on you doesn't activate it. :o
Ha~~ Don't carry gunpowder on me.. Heck I have to check everything in beforehand.. carry guns , competition guns..ammo, holsters.. knives...
Just think how safe everyone would be on that plane if I could strap on and carry all my stuff. ;)
Hey, diane, tell me again how it can't/ain't gonna happen!
TSA Searches: Are Trains and Subways Next?
Kurt Nimmo
Infowars.com
November 22, 2010
John Pistole, the TSA boss, has implored activists to rethink their "opt-out" protest this week. Pistole warns that the national protest against naked body scanners and intrusive pat downs at airports would be a mistake and will only serve to "tie up people who want to go home and see their loved ones," according to the Associated Press.
If John Pistole and the federal government have their way, we may have to opt-out of taking the subway or riding a train in the near future.
"I understand people's frustrations," said president Obama from Lisbon over the weekend. Obama said at present naked body scanners and pat down searches bordering on sexual molestation are the best way to prevent Muslims in caves from attacking the American people. Secretary of State Clinton told Meet the Press on Sunday that "everyone, including our security experts, are looking for ways to diminish the impact on the traveling public" and that "striking the right balance is what this is about."
For now, that "balance" means a near minimum wage TSA worker will fondle your testicles and there is nothing you can do about it. Protesting will only slow down traffic and prevent people from visiting their family and friends.
Obama and Clinton expect you to bite the bullet and accept what amounts to sexual molestation in order to board a commercial airplane in the United States. Pistole said it really is not a big deal because "a very small percent" of people are subject to the process of submission and humiliation.
If past comments made by Mr. Pistole are any indicator, however, the government would like to see naked body scanners and intrusive pat downs expand from airports to train stations and subway platforms.
Soon after taking over the TSA earlier this year, the former FBI deputy director Pistole told USA Today that he will work to expand airport Gestapo zones. "Protecting riders on mass-transit systems from terrorist attacks will be as high a priority as ensuring safe air travel, the new head of the Transportation Security Administration promises," the newspaper reported on July 17.
"Given the list of threats on subways and rails over the last six years going on seven years, we know that some terrorist groups see rail and subways as being more vulnerable because there's not the type of screening that you find in aviation," Pistole said. "From my perspective, that is an equally important threat area."
In addition, Pistole said he would like to see TSA workers, including 47,000 screeners at 450 airports, to operate as a "national-security, counterterrorism organization, fully integrated into U.S. government efforts." He wants to "take TSA to the next level."
Earlier this month, the TSA implemented the "enhanced" security procedures that are now coming under fire and have resulted in countless people refusing to fly and the roll out of the national opt-out campaign that will commence on November 24 across the country.
If John Pistole and the federal government have their way, we may have to opt-out of taking the subway or riding a train in the near future.
It may not be long before you are forced through a naked body scanner or obliged to have your genitals groped in order to visit the local market to buy food and necessities. Considering the trajectory the TSA and the government are on, you may have to submit to a body cavity search at the local mall.
The Pentagon and local law enforcement are ahead of the curve. "As the privacy controversy around full-body security scans begins to simmer, it's worth noting that courthouses and airport security checkpoints aren't the only places where backscatter x-ray vision is being deployed. The same technology, capable of seeing through clothes and walls, has also been rolling out on U.S. Streets," Andy Greenberg wrote for Forbes in August. "While the biggest buyer of AS&E's [roving x-ay] machines over the last seven years has been the Department of Defense operations in Afghanistan and Iraq, Reiss says law enforcement agencies have also deployed the vans to search for vehicle-based bombs in the U.S."
There are few if any "vehicle-based bombs" on U.S. roads, not that this fact has prevented the government from claiming it is a threat. The DHS released a memo "stating that terrorists may try to kill innocent women, children and men in the United States by hiding IEDs in luggage left at airports," Fox News reported not long after patsy and barbeque grill gas canister non-bomber Faisal Shahzad was arrested.
For anyone in denial, consider that the TSA has already beta tested searching Greyhound bus terminals in Florida. In 2005, the agency used the Madrid bombings as an excuse to train officers to use bomb sniffing dogs in mass transit stations. "The agency's broader role overseeing all forms of public transportation and the increased terrorist threat to mass transit indicated by train bombings in Madrid and London have caused the canine program to expand significantly in recent years, the TSA's Web site reports," according to the U.S. Air Force.
As early as 2005, teams of undercover air marshals and uniformed law enforcement officers swamped bus and train stations, ferries, and mass transit facilities across the country. The TSA dubbed the paramilitary effort "Viper," short for "Visible Intermodal Protection and Response" teams. The TSA has been beta-testing a federal takeover of all transportation which constitutes a huge violation the ten amendment in spades.
Finally, the Department of Homeland Security has developed FAST, or Future Attribute Screening Technology, to detect "hostile thoughts" by screening people at airports and special events. See the video below. The technology is like something out of a Philip K. Dick short story.
Article & video here: http://www.infowars.com/tsa-searches-are-trains-and-subways-next/
Compliments of Debbie Lane.. ;D
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj216/marshalette/image0011-2.gif)
And the absolute incompetence continues..
This would be funny if not so damned tragic for our country.
Another TSA Outrage
Posted by Erick Erickson (Profile)
Thursday, November 18th at 6:28PM EST
106 Comments
UPDATE: I'm getting a lot of emails asking if this is actually true and is this person actually someone I know. (1) Yes it is true — it is too absurd to be made up. (2) Yes, I know the person.
A friend of mine sent me this about his TSA experience. He, unlike most of us, was coming back into the country from Afghanistan on a military charter.
——–
As the Chalk Leader for my flight home from Afghanistan, I witnessed the following:
When we were on our way back from Afghanistan, we flew out of Baghram Air Field. We went through customs at BAF, full body scanners (no groping), had all of our bags searched, the whole nine yards.
Our first stop was Shannon, Ireland to refuel. After that, we had to stop at Indianapolis, Indiana to drop off about 100 folks from the Indiana National Guard. That's where the stupid started.
First, everyone was forced to get off the plane–even though the plane wasn't refueling again. All 330 people got off that plane, rather than let the 100 people from the ING get off. We were filed from the plane to a holding area. No vending machines, no means of escape. Only a male/female latrine.
It's probably important to mention that we were ALL carrying weapons. Everyone was carrying an M4 Carbine (rifle) and some, like me, were also carrying an M9 pistol. Oh, and our gunners had M-240B machine guns. Of course, the weapons weren't loaded. And we had been cleared of all ammo well before we even got to customs at Baghram, then AGAIN at customs.
The TSA personnel at the airport seriously considered making us unload all of the baggage from the SECURE cargo hold to have it reinspected. Keep in mind, this cargo had been unpacked, inspected piece by piece by U.S. Customs officials, resealed and had bomb-sniffing dogs give it a one-hour run through. After two hours of sitting in this holding area, the TSA decided not to reinspect our Cargo–just to inspect us again: Soldiers on the way home from war, who had already been inspected, reinspected and kept in a SECURE holding area for 2 hours. Ok, whatever. So we lined up to go through security AGAIN.
This is probably another good time to remind you all that all of us were carrying actual assault rifles, and some of us were also carrying pistols.
So we're in line, going through one at a time. One of our Soldiers had his Gerber multi-tool. TSA confiscated it. Kind of ridiculous, but it gets better. A few minutes later, a guy empties his pockets and has a pair of nail clippers. Nail clippers. TSA informs the Soldier that they're going to confiscate his nail clippers. The conversation went something like this:
TSA Guy: You can't take those on the plane.
Soldier: What? I've had them since we left country.
TSA Guy: You're not suppose to have them.
Soldier: Why?
TSA Guy: They can be used as a weapon.
Soldier: [touches butt stock of the rifle] But this actually is a weapon. And I'm allowed to take it on.
TSA Guy: Yeah but you can't use it to take over the plane. You don't have bullets.
Soldier: And I can take over the plane with nail clippers?
TSA Guy: [awkward silence]
Me: Dude, just give him your damn nail clippers so we can get the f**k out of here. I'll buy you a new set.
Soldier: [hands nail clippers to TSA guy, makes it through security]
This might be a good time to remind everyone that approximately 233 people re-boarded that plane with assault rifles, pistols, and machine guns–but nothing that could have been used as a weapon.
http://www.redstate.com/erick/2010/11/18/another-tsa-outrage/
The upside of airport outrages
- Dr. Thomas Sowell
No country has better airport security than Israel – and no country needs it more, since Israel is the most hated target of Islamic extremist terrorists. Yet, somehow, Israeli airport security people don't have to strip passengers naked electronically or have strangers feeling their private parts.
Does anyone seriously believe that we have better airport security than Israel? Is our security record better than theirs?
"Security" may be the excuse being offered for the outrageous things being done to American air travelers, but the heavy-handed arrogance and contempt for ordinary people that is the hallmark of this administration in other areas is all too painfully apparent in these new and invasive airport procedures.
Can you remember a time when a Cabinet member in a free America boasted of having his "foot on the neck" of some business or when the president of the United States threatened on television to put his foot on another part of some citizens' anatomy?
read more:
http://www.wnd.com/index.php/index.php?pageId=231637
Patriot,You are a worse smart Alec than I am and what you did to me is exactly how misinformation gets spread so fast. I never said trains were never going to have tighter security, I said they don't right now! Get it right will ya! I even told about my trip up the east corridor last spring. By the way, Teresa, since you may fly again before I do, ask them why they aren't using the bomb sniffing dogs anymore? I think I'd rather be goosed by a dog than manhandled by a person. ;D Eventually we'll find out what is really going on. Maybe someone is about to come out with a new machine that will seem so civilized as compared to this touchy stuff that everyone will clamor for it and someone will make kazillions. By the way, someone recently told me that we can't profile because it's considered unconstitutional.Thought you'd laugh at that. Other countries can profile because they don't have our constitution to hold them back. Please note I didn't say I agreed, I just passed on what I was told.
Assuming that TSA starts checking people at bus and train and subway stations.
Does anyone wonder what's going to happen the first time they "frisk" someone and find a legal CCW in a LEGAL situation? Last time I checked CCW is not illegal on most inner city mass transit. So someone who is just doing what they have always done is going to get completely run through the ringer for doing something that is completely legal.
Any bets that the blue shirt (hmm~~~ I wonder why blue, what other socialist organization is fond of baby blue ::) ) that pats him down over reacts and tazes the poor guy?
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Unless you have had to check and recheck your firearms.. ammo etc at an airport.. you haven't yet known the meaning of "fun".. NOT!! ::)
Unlike local subways trains and buses...
Amtrack and Grey Hound have always had a very strict no guns.. period! rules. That includes checked bags.
That is about to change..at least for Amtrak. So.. now~~if we travel by Amtrack train we all get to take the firearms and ammo with us.. BUT..get to deal with all the hassle that goes with it..
Guess it's better than having to send them ahead by postal. But ..........all I want to do is have mine with me.. Not too much to ask is it? I mean..I'm a legal Carry citizen with all the right background checks etc.. all I want to do is be able to carry while traveling so I can rightfully protect myself... sighhhhh...
From the Amtrak site
Firearms in Checked Baggage.
The Departments of Transportation and Housing and Urban Development, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act of 2010, enacted into law on December 16, 2009, requires Amtrak to implement the procedures necessary to provide storage and carriage of firearms in checked baggage cars and at Amtrak stations that accept checked baggage, within one year of the bill's enactment. This requirement applies solely to checked baggage, not carry-on baggage.
Amtrak's current policy prohibits all firearms, ammunition and other weapons aboard its trains. This includes any being carried on the person, in carry-on baggage or in checked baggage. Please be advised that this policy remains in effect until Amtrak begins firearms carriage in checked baggage on December 15, 2010; starting on this date all passengers wishing to check firearms or ammunition will be required to follow the Firearms Policy.
Firearms in Checked Baggage
Effective December 15, 2010, passengers will be allowed to check unloaded firearms and ammunition between Amtrak stations and on Amtrak trains that offer checked baggage service. The following policies apply:
Notification that the passenger will be checking firearms/ammunition must be made no later than 24 hours before train departure by calling Amtrak at 800-USA-RAIL. Online reservations for firearms/ammunition are not accepted.
All firearms and/or ammunition must be checked at least 30 minutes prior to train departure. Some larger stations require that baggage be checked earlier.
All firearms (rifles, shotguns, handguns, starter pistols) must be unloaded and in an approved, locked hard-sided container not exceeding 62" L x 17" W x 7" D (1575 mm x 432 mm x 178 mm). The passenger must have sole possession of the key or the combination for the lock to the container. The weight of the container may not exceed 50 lb/23 kg.
Smaller locked, hard-sided containers containing smaller unloaded firearms such as handguns and starter pistols must be securely stored within a suitcase or other item of checked baggage, but the existence of such a firearm must be declared.
All ammunition carried must be securely packed in the original manufacturer's container; in fiber, wood, or metal boxes; or in other packaging specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition. The maximum weight of all ammunition and containers may not exceed 11 lb/5 kg.
The passenger is responsible for knowing and following all federal, state, and local firearm laws at all jurisdictions to and through which he or she will be traveling.
All other Amtrak checked baggage policies apply, including limits on the number of pieces of checked baggage, the maximum weight of each piece (50 lb/23 kg).
Firearms/ammunition may not be carried in carry-on baggage; therefore, checked baggage must be available on all trains and at all stations in the passenger's itinerary.
At the time of check-in, passengers will be required to complete and sign a two-part Declaration Form.
BB guns and Compressed Air Guns (to include paintball markers), are to be treated as firearms and must comply with the above firearms policy. Canisters, tanks, or other devices containing propellants must be emptied prior to checking and securely packaged within the contents of the passenger's luggage.
Notice: Passengers failing to meet the above-mentioned requirements for checking firearms will be denied transportation.
The next time they tell you that they can't see you naked, watch this and then tell me that!
CONTAINS NUDITY AT :40
This website is something to look at..
Flying Pasties™ are NOT your typical 'Pasty' or 'sticker', they are reusable - and can obscure your private areas when you pass through airport scanners. No adhesive necessary as they simply slip into your clothing!
http://flyingpasties.com/
This was posted this morning by a contributor to one of my daily newsletters. I'm sharing it because I think it voices a warning that should be shared.
Whiskey & Gunpowder
By Robert Wenzel
November 24, 2010
Los Angeles, California, U.S.A.
We Are All German Jews Now
The introduction of so-called porno scanners at America's airports and the egregious pat downs of airline travelers have turned every American into a German Jew. Instead of dehumanizing and demeaning one segment of the population in order to pave the way for the Holocaust, all airline travelers are being treated like German Jews by our government for our own good — to keep us safe from terrorists on airplanes.
The TSA now considers every American a potential "enemy of the state," because any one of us may be carrying a bomb aboard an airplane, despite the fact that young men from the Middle East perpetrated the 9/11 attacks.
"Hold on," say TSA officials and their lackeys in Congress and in the media, "Our federal government is not out to harm us let alone kill us like the Nazis did to the Jews; our government needs to conduct "aggressive measures" to "protect" us on all commercial flights from potential terrorists." That is the party line.
I can understand objections to those who point to Nazi Germany and warn that this is what current day America is about. But I disagree with this objection.
The ultimate horrors in Nazi Germany were, indeed, much more terrible than anything close to what has occurred so far in America. But one should do more than only consider just the ultimate horrors of what went on in Nazi Germany. One must think about the road that was traveled by the Germans to get to that point.
I believe one of the most serious misunderstandings about totalitarianism is that it arrives as a full package that requires no assembly. That it is put on the people, like a winter coat. All at one time, and in full view for all to see.
This is a grave misunderstanding.
I often wondered why more Jews didn't flee Nazi Germany. The answer did not come to me until I saw Roman Polanski's important movie, The Pianist.
In the movie, Polanski demonstrates how many Jews were simply one step behind. When Nazi Germany limited how much money a Jew could have, instead of leaving the country, many Jews debated where they should hide their money. When Jews were required to move to certain parts of the city, many Jews simply focused on how to find the best place to live, instead of leaving the country. And then, of course, eventually it was too late to leave the country.
Would some Jews, perhaps a few, have listened and benefited from early warnings of "fringe" voices about dangers? I think so. Would it have made sense to object to the Nazi limit on how much money a Jew could hold, and thus put at least a speed bump in the way of the Nazis? I think so.
No, they haven't pulled up the trains in America, yet. But, when the trains do pull up, it is too late.
It's clear what totalitarianism looks like and when I see it in America, I am going to object loud and clear. Whether it is groping TSA agents, or spying SEC agents. For it is those first steps where the battle needs to be won. Dehumanization in Germany, as Murray Sabrin points out, came step-by-step.
Dehumanization, whether it is groping or limiting how much money an ethnic group can hold, is still dehumanization. It's the same road. We all know where that road led to in Nazi Germany. Maybe we can learn from history and stop the US from heading any further down that road.
Do my cries of warning put me on the fringe? Yes, they do. But it is a fringe group that I am proud to stand with.
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x286/red364/image.jpg)
You know, the government might be right after all. We simply just can't trust anyone anymore and must be eternally vigilant. Everyone must be suspect. For, you see, how can we know who is a threat and who is not? We just can't know, can we!
So from now on, to avoid terrorism, intruders, burglars, bill collectors and people I find annoying, I will be instituting a strip search at my front and back doors.
Since I cannot afford the naked scanner, or as it is known by its technical name the 'Nudie Intrudy', I have to request everyone undergo a strip search at my door. These searches will make my home safer for democracy, or something. Maybe. I don't want anyone entering my home with things in their underwear or whatever.
My rather huge neighbor Sruly Ben-Shtus, will be doing the searches with a magnifying glass after your clothing has been blown off by an industrial sized leaf blower. Once you are found to be no threat to anyone, you may hunt down your clothing from the trees and neighborhood lawns and proceed to the front door. Its not too much to ask for security is it?
Those who are insulted by this new institution just don't understand how important security is. There is far more crime and terror at home and on the street than on airlines. Do you know there are 8,000 home invasions daily in the United States? People, that is 240 terroristic invasion per hour! No airline suffers those numbers. Robbery is a crime that is out of control. The FBI tells us that in 2009, there were an estimated 2,199,125 burglaries. Sometimes these people pose as home inspectors, gardeners, etc to gain access to your house. You can't be too careful.
So you can see my home strip searches will be an effective way to curb crime in my little corner of the world. By the way, though we will be taking digital photographs of you during the search, these will never be shared with anyone or leaked from my personal online album to anyone else.
I can't help thinking that the men who complain the loudest are the same ones who would grab a female the first chance they got. None of them ever played football? Or showed off in the locker room ;D ;D ;D Women and girls have been "bumped"and grouped "accidentally",especially by drunks, since forever .Maybe its time the men found out what is like! ;D I'm not serious of course, but it is a little strange.
Quote from: Warph on November 26, 2010, 02:12:53 AM
after your clothing has been blown off by an industrial sized leaf blower. Once you are found to be no threat to anyone, you may hunt down your clothing from the trees and neighborhood lawns and proceed to the front door.
ROTFL~~~~(http://www.cascity.com/howard/forum/cryinglaughing.gif)
That was perfect... hahahahahahahaha Ohhh... I will laugh about that for the rest of the day;.