Elk County Forum

General Category => Politics => Topic started by: redcliffsw on November 01, 2010, 11:49:49 AM

Title: We Get It, Do You?
Post by: redcliffsw on November 01, 2010, 11:49:49 AM



Title: Re: We Get It, Do You?
Post by: Varmit on November 05, 2010, 06:21:21 AM
The cat that was hosting the Tea Party had a point.  To get the Tea Partys message out there then they DO need to give thought about their image.  Then once they are firmly established they can begin to broach the subject of Political Correctness of one symbol or another.  I understand what the southern gentleman was saying and agree but he should give more thought to his delivery.
Title: Re: We Get It, Do You?
Post by: Diane Amberg on November 05, 2010, 03:52:07 PM
Since this was not written by one of you...could the person who made the tape at least proofread and spell "southern" correctly. You complain that we are falling behind other countries, yet they won't take the extra moment to proofread something that they want to have seen by a lot of people? To me that's like the women years ago who never took the curlers out of their hair.  I saw them everywhere ! Ya had to wonder what in the world did they considered important enough to take them out and fix their hair.  What does this dude think is important enough to take a moment to get it right? It's nice when people take pride in their work.  My personal take on this was that they might have found the uniform a problem, not the flag.
Title: Re: We Get It, Do You?
Post by: Varmit on November 06, 2010, 08:18:34 AM
What are you talkin about it is spelled correctly??
Title: Re: We Get It, Do You?
Post by: jarhead on November 06, 2010, 08:37:00 AM
Billy, Billy, Billy !! You just stepped into a bear trap. A certain forum member has been doing everything in her power to start a fight and you fell for it. Let your Army training kick in and go for victory and take no prisoners !!
Title: Re: We Get It, Do You?
Post by: Varmit on November 06, 2010, 09:16:54 AM
Well if thats the case...then it shall be the Black Flag.  No quarter asked or given.  Cry "HAVOC" and slip the dogs of WAR!!

Fix Bayonets!...Give'em the Cold Steel!....Here I abandoned peace and desecrated law; fortune it is you I follow. Farewell to treaties. From now on war is our judge!" Hail Caesar! We who are about to die salute you...

Up, men! Up,  Hold your fire until they are within fifty yards, and then give them the bayonet! And when you charge, yell like furies! ...

We're gonna keep fighting. Is that CLEAR? We're gonna attack all night, we're gonna attack tomorrow morning. If we are not VICTORIOUS, let no man come back alive
Title: Re: We Get It, Do You?
Post by: Diane Amberg on November 06, 2010, 11:56:18 AM
Sorry, no trap. Go back and look at the blue title page of the tape. Southern is missing the "t"  Is that how YOU spell it?  ;) That is sloppy work. I'm not trying to cause trouble, but you all, and the speaker on this tape, have taken mean huge mean swipes at our schools and teachers.  Shouldn't that error have been caught and corrected? IMHO Is ''souhern" really " good enough?" They knew that would get thousands of hits, why not show a different kind of pride and fix it before it hit the internet?
  I'm in no way trying to start a fight. What would it be about? Rudeness? Lies? Where? Is shooting and getting close but never hitting the target going to put venison on the table? Sorry, I just don't see why you think I'm trying to cause trouble. If adults honestly think that "close" is good enough, then kids will never strive for excellence and we'll keep falling farther and farther behind. It needs to start somewhere. I know I beat this to death, but it does bother me. I doubt you would accept misspelled sports trophies or a graduation degree.   SO.... By the way, on your last post, Varmit, that is so silly I may have to call out the Elk County Creeper to deal with ya. ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: We Get It, Do You?
Post by: srkruzich on November 06, 2010, 04:52:54 PM
Whats really sad is that your so fixated on the one error that the message just gets ignored.   The fact that his message hit the nail on the head.  You know that denotes an elitist attitude.  Sorry but just because he might have mispelled the word, most likely its a typo, doesn't mean his message is any less important.  

Personally i would rather have a individual running the country that has a message like this man in the video has, than have someone that has x degree from y university and can spell every word correctly and use them in complicated sentence structures.  Actually i would rather have a illiterate dirt farmer in office that has common sense and honor than i would any of these clowns up there in washington. 

Title: Re: We Get It, Do You?
Post by: kshillbillys on November 06, 2010, 05:01:17 PM
Well said Steve! You hit the nail on the head there!
Title: Re: We Get It, Do You?
Post by: Diane Amberg on November 06, 2010, 06:48:58 PM
Sorry guys, that wasn't my point at all. Do you really consider proper spelling and grammar to be elitist? That's a real shame. Of course it's "just a typo" and probably wasn't set up by anyone who was actually on the tape and my concern had nothing to do with the subject.That wasn't my point. It didn't have anything to do with the message! It was an example of whether accuracy counts; is "not good" is good enough. Do you care if your paycheck is "just close" but isn't correct? Do you want your doctor to write a proper  prescription for you or is "close enough," good enough. Does a Pharmacist have to fill a prescription correctly or is "close" good enough. Does a surveyor have permission to get it ''close" but not accurate?  When you pay for a pound of meat, is 14 ounces good enough? If adults keep excusing errors of any kind, not just spelling and grammar, we as a producing nation will fall further and further behind and nobody, teachers, ministers, coaches will ever be able to fix it because of the defensive attitude of some people. There are many places in life where accuracy does count. You'll fight me to the death to attack schools and teachers for producing what you see as a poor product but then you defend that poor product as being of no importance. By the way, there is no reason for there ever to be an "illiterate" dirt farmer in this country.
   I guess the reason I even noticed is because I just finished reading and judging a big pile of grade 4-8 fire prevention essays. Actually they were much better than I usually get. The concepts were quite good in each grade's topic. In the final cut spelling does count. I had to eliminate a number of good essays because of spelling errors in favor of ones that had equally good concepts but no spelling or grammar errors. (And Steve you still don't have "your" and "you're" straightened out. ;)) It's the same for people going on job interviews. Presentation, dress, attitude, knowledge, grammar and spelling do count. Depending on the job description, why should I hire someone who is functionally illiterate if I don't have to?
Title: Re: We Get It, Do You?
Post by: Roma Jean Turner on November 06, 2010, 07:25:45 PM
All this mental masturbation over a missing letter..tiresome.
Title: Re: We Get It, Do You?
Post by: srkruzich on November 06, 2010, 07:31:20 PM
Well i am not all that concerned about the your you're much.  i also do not capitalize much either, habit in the field i was in because caps were only used for certain system functions and most everything else was in lower case.  
As far as my resume,  i have one i built and still could throw out there and use today as it stands. Doesn't need changing much if at all.  Not important anymore as my work career is over.  

All i care about right now is living. The state of being.  Not the state of aquiring.  Being is so much simpler and more peaceful.  I have no desire to write a memoir nor do i care much about impressing anyone.  But if someone wants a computer fixed, or a program written, i can do it right fast and get them back up and running.  See thats all that matters isn't it?  I am one of the best in my field and do not have to prove it through writing fancy documents or memos.  When i was in the workforce, i didn't write memos, letters or documents and refused to document anything i did.  All that matters is if i can do the job, and getting it done and thats what i did.  
One of the best aspects of it is that you do not have to prove your the best before you do it.  You just go in and do it.   I have a unique approach.  I tell the client i'll fix this that or the other before they decide to hire me to finish the job. thats all i need to get the job.   IF i don't fix it, then i don't get the job or get paid.
Title: Re: We Get It, Do You?
Post by: srkruzich on November 06, 2010, 07:31:57 PM
Quote from: Roma Jean Turner on November 06, 2010, 07:25:45 PM
All this mental masturbation over a missing letter..tiresome.

yeah really.....
Title: Re: We Get It, Do You?
Post by: srkruzich on November 06, 2010, 07:37:00 PM
You know, I know folks that are smart and can dot every i and cross every t and are perfect in all things written, they are also very smart as they are engineers and can create and design things i never could imagine. BUT those same folks that i know are the ones who have many times walked out the front door on their way to work get in the car and halfway to work when they realize they haven't put their britches on. 

Now one thing i do know.  I put my britches on before i leave the house!  I might not be as smart as they are but i have a hell of a lot more common sense.
Title: Re: We Get It, Do You?
Post by: jarhead on November 06, 2010, 07:42:48 PM
Quote from: Roma Jean Turner on November 06, 2010, 07:25:45 PM
All this mental masturbation over a missing letter..tiresome.


That's funny RJT. Must be a slow day on the east coast !!!
Title: Re: We Get It, Do You?
Post by: frawin on November 06, 2010, 08:39:44 PM
Quote from: Roma Jean Turner on November 06, 2010, 07:25:45 PM
All this mental masturbation over a missing letter..tiresome.

Roma Jean, that is a classic, you said it all.
Frank
Title: Re: We Get It, Do You?
Post by: Diane Amberg on November 06, 2010, 09:29:26 PM
Sorry folks, I didn't mean for my observation to turn into so many posts and bore you to death. But if you hadn't answered back so many times it would have gone away on it's own. I was interested in your comments. I'll go bother someone else. Steve your comment on common sense is also true. I know some of those too. ;D
Title: Re: We Get It, Do You?
Post by: Varmit on November 07, 2010, 06:55:51 AM
You know Diane, it could be that whoever wrote that title page never had a typing class, and was just trying to type without looking at the keys. ;) ;)  The point being that we shouldn't let one little mistake distract from the overall message.
Title: Re: We Get It, Do You?
Post by: Diane Amberg on November 07, 2010, 11:11:01 AM
 So what was the "message?" From the tea party or from two fellows in Confederate uniforms? Had he not wandered into a slap at schools for not teaching his version of "right", I'd have never said a word. That title slide was the only one I mentioned because it was right up front and it wasn't the only spelling error in the piece!The subject hopped around so much between the flag, the definition of "civil", which has more that one meaning, his great, ever so great grandfather and the NAACP, I wasn't quite sure what he or any of them had originally intended. Now I'll stop before I get accused, and rightfully so, of being boring again. I'll leave the really long stuff to WARPH.
Title: Re: We Get It, Do You?
Post by: twirldoggy on November 07, 2010, 11:37:32 AM
I am wondering if the Tea Party has a written document stating what they actually do believe and support.  This was the problem with ODonnel, she did not seem to know in detail what she believed and supported. 
Title: Re: We Get It, Do You?
Post by: Varmit on November 07, 2010, 03:38:01 PM
TD, thats the thing about the Tea Party as they have come to be called.  Its not one big party like the Dems or Repubs, but rather several groups.  They don't have a "leader" or chain of command.
Title: Re: We Get It, Do You?
Post by: srkruzich on November 07, 2010, 03:42:35 PM
Quote from: twirldoggy on November 07, 2010, 11:37:32 AM
I am wondering if the Tea Party has a written document stating what they actually do believe and support.  This was the problem with ODonnel, she did not seem to know in detail what she believed and supported. 
The Tea Party itself  is libertarian in concept.  Minimal Government,  Minimal taxes.  iF you tax, you had better have a damn good reason to do it.  Constitutional principles.   Right now our Govt could be chopped 50% and the country would prosper and flourish and rise fast and strong.   
Title: Re: We Get It, Do You?
Post by: Diane Amberg on November 07, 2010, 04:26:15 PM
50% of what? Nobody  is going to want their personal projects or states affected. I've got an even better idea. Give the country back to the original 13 states to run like the forefathers did.Things were great until the rest of the states started sneaking in! Or how about this. Dump the house ,drop 50 senators and the country could be run down at the diner not far from the Capitol. No projects that are good for any states. No subsidies of any kind,  no depletion allowances or allowing anybody's cattle to graze on public lands. No water rights or mineral rights on public lands. Nobody gets special treatment. A small flat tax for everybody with no deducts. No survivors benefits with SS. Make sure you die by 65 so you'll never run out of money. All Gov't jobs are volunteer...no pay. ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: We Get It, Do You?
Post by: srkruzich on November 07, 2010, 04:39:27 PM
Quote from: Diane Amberg on November 07, 2010, 04:26:15 PM
50% of what? Nobody  is going to want their personal projects or states affected. I've got an even better idea. Give the country back to the original 13 states to run like the forefathers did.Things were great until the rest of the states started sneaking in! Or how about this. Dump the house ,drop 50 senators and the country could be run down at the diner not far from the Capitol. No projects that are good for any states. No subsidies of any kind,  no depletion allowances or allowing anybody's cattle to graze on public lands. No water rights or mineral rights on public lands. Nobody gets special treatment. A small flat tax for everybody with no deducts. No survivors benefits with SS. Make sure you die by 65 so you'll never run out of money. All Gov't jobs are volunteer...no pay. ;D ;D ;D
You know what, i agree to drop SS and welfare.  But you got one problem with SS, the govt owes those who paid into it.  Sorry but we were forced into it, and were forced to pay for it and we deserve to get back what we paid.  I say drop SS for anyone 30 and under, let those who have paid into it pay out and then go from there.   
Furthermore, the Government should not own property.  Release all the public lands and sell them off. Would be a massive savings for the taxpayer.  An even better idea is to take those of the 13 colonies that wish to keep it the way it is and let them form their own country and see how long they make it.  I am quite sure that after the other peoples money runs out from the socialism, that they would be doing what mexicans are doing and we would have to implement border security along the eastern border.

Title: Re: We Get It, Do You?
Post by: Diane Amberg on November 07, 2010, 05:15:44 PM
 Go back and carefully read what I really said. The 13 as the forefathers ran it. I said nothing about now. Delaware would come out great anyway because we wouldn't have poor states taking our money away from us. We are a donor state and don't get back as much as we pay in because of poor states that are receiver states and get back more than they pay in. You can look for yourself and see who they are.
  So those 30 and under would have to, on their own, start saving, not spending, much more in order to insure they have enough to live on later. What people save and don't spend doesn't help the economy or help create jobs. People who go out and spend their SS checks are putting money back into the economy. So which system is better? Some will tell you that SS is better because it is guaranteed and not tied to the success or failure of the stock market or investments. I don't know. I'd have been fine either way because I'm a natural saver. Not everybody is. How many people would turn to crime to get money they didn't save? I sure don't know.
Title: Re: We Get It, Do You?
Post by: kshillbillys on November 07, 2010, 06:22:35 PM
Well, well, well...look what has floated to the surface from the deep end of the septic tank...I'm sure if I would have left this alone, Steve, it would've gone away on its own. But like the turd that won't flush, sometimes you have to force them with a plunger. This is an old trick that was tried on me a couple of years ago; Just ignore the turd in the septic tank and it will dissolve and someone else can come and pump it out. I hope I crossed my I's and dotted my T's. Just a little humor from Longton, Steve. We're a donor town....---MR. KSHillbillys
Title: Re: We Get It, Do You?
Post by: Diane Amberg on November 07, 2010, 07:20:31 PM
Says who? I said donor STATES and there are a number of them. We had talked about this many times before you came along and there is nothing new or malious about it. We had been talking about flat taxes vs VAT and income vs sales taxes and one comment was even made that Texas never saw a tax it didn't like. There was discussion about how several people would like to see the tax laws changed and in what ways.  There was no anger or sarcasm by anybody, so why are you trying to make a big deal about it. It sure doesn't take much to set you off does it? Sorry, not playing.
Title: Re: We Get It, Do You?
Post by: jarhead on November 07, 2010, 07:48:23 PM
Mr Hillbilly,
I thought you were talking to Steve about turds but instead SOMEONE else jumped in on your conversation. Maybe it was because of your "donor town" comment. You should point out you meant 'sperm donor town".
Title: Re: We Get It, Do You?
Post by: kshillbillys on November 07, 2010, 08:07:02 PM
Well geez, Jar, I shouldn't have to explain to ANYONE what I meant if I directed my comment to Steve, now should I?
Title: Re: We Get It, Do You?
Post by: Diane Amberg on November 07, 2010, 09:54:02 PM
Since it was Steve and I who had been talking when you commented  was pretty easy to see what was up. and on Sunday too. Like I said,  not playing.
Title: Re: We Get It, Do You?
Post by: Varmit on November 08, 2010, 08:29:46 AM
Quote from: Diane Amberg on November 07, 2010, 04:26:15 PM
50% of what? Nobody  is going to want their personal projects or states affected. I've got an even better idea. Give the country back to the original 13 states to run like the forefathers did.Things were great until the rest of the states started sneaking in! Or how about this. Dump the house ,drop 50 senators and the country could be run down at the diner not far from the Capitol. No projects that are good for any states. No subsidies of any kind,  no depletion allowances or allowing anybody's cattle to graze on public lands. No water rights or mineral rights on public lands. Nobody gets special treatment. A small flat tax for everybody with no deducts. No survivors benefits with SS. Make sure you die by 65 so you'll never run out of money. All Gov't jobs are volunteer...no pay. ;D ;D ;D

I like it, save for a few points...

1.  The Gov't should stick to the Constitution.  Programs to be cut are the ones not mentioned in it.  Such as Dept. of Education, Enegry, Justice, transportation, welfare.  Let the states decide what is best for themselves and their citizens.

2.  A flat 10% tax on income, no deductions.  No sales tax unless the states vote on it.


Quote from: srkruzich on November 07, 2010, 04:39:27 PM
You know what, i agree to drop SS and welfare.  But you got one problem with SS, the govt owes those who paid into it.  Sorry but we were forced into it, and were forced to pay for it and we deserve to get back what we paid.  I say drop SS for anyone 30 and under, let those who have paid into it pay out and then go from there.  
Furthermore, the Government should not own property.  Release all the public lands and sell them off. Would be a massive savings for the taxpayer.  An even better idea is to take those of the 13 colonies that wish to keep it the way it is and let them form their own country and see how long they make it.  I am quite sure that after the other peoples money runs out from the socialism, that they would be doing what mexicans are doing and we would have to implement border security along the eastern border.

1.  Yes, drop SS but not just for those under 30, but for everybody, regardless of how long a person might have paid into it.  Afterall, there is no contract saying that a person is "owed" taht money by the gov't.  Remember this little tidbit Steve, "The voters think they are entitled to these payments. "After all, we paid for this." No, they didn't. They paid for whatever the government wanted to pay for when it collected the taxes – not "premiums. A bitter pill to swallow, but needs doing none the less.

2.  I agree that Gov't shouldn't own land, but not all land should be sold off.  National parks (yellowstone, grand canyon, yosemite etc) should stay open for all to enjoy, and not fall into private ownership.  

3.  As for division of the country, no way.  America, now more than ever, needs to present a united front.  
Title: Re: We Get It, Do You?
Post by: srkruzich on November 08, 2010, 09:29:43 AM
Quote from: Varmit on November 08, 2010, 08:29:46 AM

1.  Yes, drop SS but not just for those under 30, but for everybody, regardless of how long a person might have paid into it.  Afterall, there is no contract saying that a person is "owed" taht money by the gov't.  Remember this little tidbit Steve, "The voters think they are entitled to these payments. "After all, we paid for this." No, they didn't. They paid for whatever the government wanted to pay for when it collected the taxes – not "premiums. A bitter pill to swallow, but needs doing none the less.


I'm sorry but we were forced to pay into it.  Not voluntary.  There is a implied contract given when we are forced to pay into that system with a promise given that we would get it back in our later years.   has nothing to do with a bitter pill. IF I HAD VOLUNTARILY given that money then yeah, its a bitter pill.  But thankfully I personally won't be subject to that pill one day.  For myself, I'll tell you, i would rather be working making some money than having to live on nothing.  ANYONE that thinks living on SS is so wonderful needs to do the same themselves for 2 or 3 years.  You will find it's a miserable existence.  God willing i will be off of it in 5 years. 
Title: Re: We Get It, Do You?
Post by: Varmit on November 08, 2010, 10:05:49 AM
Steve, thats the point, there is no contract, implied or otherwise.  People just THINK there is.  Read the fine print.  If we are going to cut it for one age group, then we cut it for all.
Title: Re: We Get It, Do You?
Post by: kshillbillys on November 08, 2010, 05:38:09 PM
Varmit,
    Just exactly what kind of pirate are you? I'm just wondering, not curious, at least not as curious as you might be...
                                                                                            Robert
Title: Re: We Get It, Do You?
Post by: srkruzich on November 08, 2010, 05:46:21 PM
Quote from: Varmit on November 08, 2010, 10:05:49 AM
Steve, thats the point, there is no contract, implied or otherwise.  People just THINK there is.  Read the fine print.  If we are going to cut it for one age group, then we cut it for all.
Varmit you don't get the point.  THey took that money by force, and if they choose to try and take it away from me i and most US worker will use force too to keep it.  IF this does happen, you will find a bunch of bluehairs going to war.


Title: Re: We Get It, Do You?
Post by: Varmit on November 10, 2010, 05:06:13 AM
"...Bluehairs going to war"??  I doubt it.  Bluehairs allowed it to be taken in the first place, and they are the ones that are taking it from the workers now.  But aside from that, can you show proof that folks are entitled to recieve SS?  That it is a "Right"? 
Title: Re: We Get It, Do You?
Post by: srkruzich on November 10, 2010, 07:25:45 AM
Quote from: Varmit on November 10, 2010, 05:06:13 AM
"...Bluehairs going to war"??  I doubt it.  Bluehairs allowed it to be taken in the first place, and they are the ones that are taking it from the workers now.  But aside from that, can you show proof that folks are entitled to recieve SS?  That it is a "Right"? 

A right, no its not a right guaranteed by the constitution but it is a contract in that they forced you to pay for it with the promise that it would there when you need it.  You can't get out of paying it, unless.... you don't work. IF you don't work you die.  That is extortion. So if they don't deliver, then they are nothing more than extortionists.   If that isn't a reason to go to war with them then you know i don't know what is.

I suspect that in the near future, they will fix the problem.  My belief is that there will be something come along like the AUAG strain of hep that will be delivered somehow into the population that is modified so that it targets elderly.  THey have the ability now to genetically modify a virus so that it targets certain groups of people. 

Don't think it can't happen.  Imagine what would happen if they killed off 4 billion people world wide....
Title: Re: We Get It, Do You?
Post by: Varmit on November 10, 2010, 08:43:07 AM
Look, all I'm saying is that SS if a fraud, its broke.  The very premise of it is flawed in thats its based on an unchanging ratio of workers to retirees.  The real extortionists are the ones collecting it, living off of it.  Now, people will say "I paid into it, I should get it back".  I understand what they're saying but at the same time, the money they are recieving was taken from somone else.  How is that not theft?  The recieveing of stolen property is illegal, is it not?  The whole thing needs to be done away with without anyone getting another penny.  The gov't included the SS fund into the general budget, which is empty, i.e. there is no money left in the SS fund. 

They don't need a virus or whatever that targets a specific group, all they need is the control of the healthcare system.  I fgrandma doesn't get her heart pills or the surgery she needs, she dies.  Problem solved.  And they can always hide behind the "we just don't have the money" whine.  But if things keep going the way they are we won't even reach that point.  With the continued devaluation of our dollar, the gov't thinking they can fix it by flooding the system with worthless currency, we are more and more beginning to resemble the Weimar republic. And we know what that leads to.  Which frankly, in a way, I think that is exactly what this county needs, a Revolution.  We need to get rid of the "something for nothing" crowd and hit the Reset button on what this country has become.
Title: Re: We Get It, Do You?
Post by: Diane Amberg on November 10, 2010, 11:16:08 AM
Groups could opt out of of SS for years, so there are still people in programs that started before, I think 1986, that do not pay into SS and it isn't "stolen" from them either. They had another pension option, and took it, There are still groups who work who can chose to opt out. When I started teaching in 1966 I could opt out. I did not have to have SS withheld because I had a state pension option.  It was my choice. Police, fire, teachers, ministers, certain religious sects didn't have to either. i don't know how it is now, but it used to be kids didn't have to if they had simple jobs like baby sitting and seasonal and part time people didn't either. My grandpa had a railroad pension, chose not to take SS also. Al's aunt, a teacher in Philly didn't take it either. She had a Philly School System pension.
Title: Re: We Get It, Do You?
Post by: Varmit on November 11, 2010, 08:48:16 AM
So, its an "either/or" option.  Either you have your own pension fund, or you take SS.  How about this though, what if I don't plan on retiring?  What if I choose to work until the day I die?  So theres no need to set a "retirement fund", now I have to pay into SS.  A forced choice option, is no choice at all.