America Is In A Societal Meltdown
-Chuck Baldwin
We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." So said Founding Father and America's second President John Adams. And he was absolutely right. And that is what is absolutely wrong with our country today: America is in a complete moral, societal, and cultural meltdown.
Founding Father and America's first US Supreme Court Chief Justice John Jay correctly summarized the reason our new nation (and the fight for its liberty and independence) was successful. He wrote in Federalist 2, "With equal pleasure I have as often taken notice that Providence has been pleased to give this one connected country to one united people–a people descended from the same ancestors, speaking the same language, professing the same religion, attached to the same principles of government, very similar in their manners and customs, and who, by their joint counsels, arms, and efforts, fighting side by side throughout a long and bloody war, have nobly established general liberty and independence."
In other words, a united constitutional republic can only exist within the framework of certain rather narrow and finite conditions. Remove those conditions and the framework for liberty and limited government falls apart. And the above statements by Adams and Jay succinctly summarize the conditions necessary for freedom's framework.
more:
http://chuckbaldwinlive.com/home/?p=1862
So he's saying Pres. O is correct, we are no longer a Christian Country? I just had some one explain to me in very sad terms why that is so and I don't think they had ever thought of it that way. Some small Christian groups spend a lot of time and energy shouting down other Christian groups as being "fake" Christians or state that the only real Christians are those who believe as exactly as they do. I don't think they realize that if one accepts only a very narrow view of Christianity, and one tosses out all the other people who consider themselves Christians, you would drop the percentages of Christians in this country to well below 50%, which means we are indeed no longer a Christian country. To say we are still a Christian country one has to accept that all people who consider themselves Christians are and do count. Not sure if this goes in politics or religion, but since it's a reaction to the above writer I left it here.
I always thought that there was no state religion according to the constitution; that is why the president said this is not a christian nation. I suspect that the majority of people in this country claim to be christian, but in practise you have to wonder. But that is only my opinion, that and a buck-fifty might buy a cup of coffee most places.
Obama said we are no longer "just" a Christian nation, but a nation of many other faiths as well.
http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/did_obama_say_we_are_no_longer.html
Aren't we guaranteed Freedom of Religion and wouldn't that include every known religion in the world today, not just what was there when the Bill of Rights was written? I don't know if we could be called a Christian nation or not, but we do still offer a prayer to the one and only God at the beginning of each session of Congress.
Quote from: Wilma on July 09, 2010, 03:21:14 PM
I don't know if we could be called a Christian nation or not, but we do still offer a prayer to the one and only God at the beginning of each session of Congress.
Unfortunately that is no longer true. They allow any other religion to do this.
I think what the author is saying is that in order to save this country we need to return to the things that made us. Mainly, a strong belief in God and Christ. Is the USA a christian nation? Absolutely. We were not founded on muslim, hindu, buddist, or atheist beliefs, but on Christian beliefs and principles and by the very hand of God. Not allah, not budha, not by the spirit of mother earth.
If you look at the history of this Country we began to go downhill when we started to turn away from God. There has always been a segment of our population that didn't believe, but the majority still held on to a common thread of morality. And because of that we had been blessed with prosperity. But once we began, as a whole, to stop upholding those morals, and we let a minority of people decide on how we should be governed we began to lose it. I would say that starting in the late 50's and early 60's we began to freefall into a moral sewer. It wasn't that we were no longer holding to our beliefs, but we quit standing up for them. We took christian prayer out of schools, we offered on demand abortion (after that one I am surprised that we are still here), we began to teach that premartial sex is ok, we accepted deviant lifestyles and homosexuality in the name of diversity, we began to view pornography as entertainment instead of the vile thing it is, we allowed our gov't to pass laws stating that it is okay to write pornograhic stories and books involving children because it is protected under free speech but don't you dare hand out a Bible in schools. I could go on and on but you get the point. It is not that the vast majority of Americans have stopped believeing in God, but that they have stopped fighting for Him. And we are beginning to reap what we have sown.
Yes, we have Freedom of Religion in this country, but the purpose of the First Admendment has been twisted. It was written so that Congress couldn't pass a law declaring a national religion, not the states. The Founders did this to avoid what happened in Britian with the catholic church. However, they knew that we could not continue to exist without our gov't basing its laws on Godly principles. And they were right.
I believe we are still a Christian Nation. Obama said we are no longer a Christian Nation because he is not a Christian. He worshipped with the Rev Jeremiah Wright for 20+ years, Wright is definitely not Christian and hates the principles that America was founded on. For my Children and Grandchildren's sake I hope and pray we can overcome all of the mistakes that have been made in this once Great Nation and get back to the greatness that we once had.
Frawin, I agree with you. I think we Can get back to the greatness we once had, but I don't think we Will. I think that, as a whole, most christians in this country have lost the stomach for the fight.
Hey! Nobody I know of teaches that premarital sex is acceptable! But there are sick twisted people out there that prey on the unfortunate insecurities of young girls AND the fact that kids get caught up in the moment, (both sexes) and there is still, after all these years, bad information that floats around the kids world about how pregnancy happens. Now there is this stupid thing with the girls sending racy photos over their phones. What is up with that?
The 60's with the free love reputation, and that's all is was, a reputation, is long over. An awful lot of kids weren't having the free sex they bragged about!
As far as taking prayer out of schools, you can thank one person for that. I don't know how she gained such a huge influential following and I've always thought that individual schools should have the chance to decide for themselves. It's harder in areas of greater population because there are so many different religions represented. But I'm sure it could be worked out if the parents would get together and talk.
Why shouldn't the little Elk County schools have prayer if they want it.? There are so few of you and if you are all cookie cutter versions of each other, the way some of you say why not allow prayer? There is nobody there to get upset or have their feeling hurt. I also do not believe this country has turned away from God, not for a minute. There are too many squeaky wheels out there with something to sell that benifits themselves that want you to think that. I do not have to go to church to prove my belief. There are huge numbers of spiritual people who are good people in their thinking and action, but don't care to have some one else telling them how to think or what to believe or which version of the Bible to read. As far as this whole country being"immoral," who decides that? some author selling books? The same bad spots, mostly deep in the slums of big cities are still there as they have always been. What we call pornography has always been around. Before cameras it was drawn and painted. The same man who goes to church every Sunday is just as likely to have"dirty" books at home. It depends on how you act about it. Frankly, is it anybodies business if they don't misbehave because of it?
I don't understand "deviant" lifestyles and I'll never agree with you on homosexuality. Several people who are friends felt as you until they had a homo sexual child of their own. They were very torn about it. Several families were destroyed by it, a couple asked God for guidance and learned to accept it and have done very well, and one close friend never did tell his parents. They both died not ever knowing their son was gay. He has a permanent boy friend now and they are very happy, gentle, well adjusted contributing members of their community. I figure if God lets them happen it can't be all wrong, even if it's hard to understand.
As far as what the founder fathers had in mind, some areas will be debated for more centuries than have already passed. They knew that none of what they wrote was perfect and some, like Ben Franklin wrote a lot. Unfortunately that allows much of what they wrote to be taken out of context and used in ways the words were never intended. Even Thomas Jefferson wanted the new Constitution to be looked over every seven years and revised if necessary to the times.
This is not 1776 and as much as some would like we can't go back to then.This country was officially founded by the British, but the French and Dutch and other countries were already here and had been for a long time. Not all the British wanted to be independent they were wealthy and thriving just the way things were. A lot of political and financial maneuvering went on before it was all said and done and some went back to Britain to stay. If this country was determined to never have the influences of other cultures, why were the boarders left open for so many years and so many immigrants of so many countries allowed to come here? The would be no Muslims or Hindus,Shinto,Tao or anyone else if we hadn't let them in.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on July 10, 2010, 08:46:10 AM
Hey! Nobody I know of teaches that premarital sex is acceptable!
Try any public school that hands out condoms to 6th graders. Try a society that no longer places a stigma on unwed mothers.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on July 10, 2010, 08:46:10 AM
But there are sick twisted people out there that prey on the unfortunate insecurities of young girls AND the fact that kids get caught up in the moment, (both sexes) and there is still, after all these years, bad information that floats around the kids world about how pregnancy happens. Now there is this stupid thing with the girls sending racy photos over their phones. What is up with that?
insecurites?...please...try a society that has sexualized girls from the moment they exit the womb. Have you seen the clothes that are made for girls these days? As for racy photos...blame the parents! If they had raised their children the way they were supposed to it wouldn't be an issue.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on July 10, 2010, 08:46:10 AM
The 60's with the free love reputation, and that's all is was, a reputation, is long over. An awful lot of kids weren't having the free sex they bragged about!
Maybe so. But it did spawn a generation of morally bankrupt individuals that set a tone in this country of a mindset compeletly lacking of anything Biblical. This mindset carried over to the 70's and resulted in the horrific decision of Roe v. Wade.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on July 10, 2010, 08:46:10 AM
As far as taking prayer out of schools, you can thank one person for that. I don't know how she gained such a huge influential following and I've always thought that individual schools should have the chance to decide for themselves. It's harder in areas of greater population because there are so many different religions represented. But I'm sure it could be worked out if the parents would get together and talk.
Actually, we can think thousands of people for that, namely, the silent christians that allowed it to happen. As for the different religions involved, I don't care about them. We were founded on Christian beliefs, not any other. So there shouldn't be any other prayer considered. For some children this may be the only time they hear about the gospel of the only true God.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on July 10, 2010, 08:46:10 AM
Why shouldn't the little Elk County schools have prayer if they want it.? There are so few of you and if you are all cookie cutter versions of each other, the way some of you say why not allow prayer? There is nobody there to get upset or have their feeling hurt.
Unfortunately, the State and federal gov't (which governs how our schools are run and which have teachers and school adminstrators tucking their tails) doesn't agree. BTW, when has anyone said that we "are cookie cutter versions of each other"? That is a low blow and insulting.
This country HAS turned away from God. Being "spritual" isn't the same as being Christian. Who decides what is "immoral"?...God. Compare the actions of this country as a whole over the last few decades to the Biblical principles given to us by God, you'll find the two do not match.
I do not care how long pornography has been around, that doesn't make it right. As Christians not only should we not have any part of it, but we should be fighting against it.
Deviant lifestyles...let me clarify...homosexuals, trans-genders, cross dressers, swingers, drunks, drug addicts, "players", so forth. As for God allowing these things to happen, no. These are choices that people make. Thats really the beauty and the hell of it. God gives us free will and the ability to chose, but also the responsiblity to suffer the consequences of those choices. It doesn't matter how "good" a person is in their actions and thinking, they cannot be a christian and agree with the homosexual lifestyle. It goes against the laws of God.
As for the influences of other cultures, no one is saying that is neccessarly a bad thing. Only when that influence begins to erode the thing that truly made us who we are. Immigrants are welcome so long as they assimilate to OUR culture.
If you want to learn what the Founders thought about God and how we as a nation should be governed then read some of their writings on the subject.
"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full."
Matt 6:5
"But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."
Matt 6:6
"And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words."
that's the kind of prayin I learned to do and my children were taught to do so you see it doesn't MATTER what SOMEbody else says I can or can't do because I can do it anytime I want to anywhere I want to. You can talk to God/Jesus/Buddha/Krishna/Goddess anywhere anytime so spare me the diatribes against the "People who took that right away from us" bull.
and more evil cruel things have been done in the name of progressing the cause of "God" and "His Divine Gift of this magnificent land" than I care to expand upon to people who don't want to hear it. People in glass houses should not throw stones and that goes for ALL of us.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on July 10, 2010, 08:46:10 AM
Hey! Nobody I know of teaches that premarital sex is acceptable! But there are sick twisted people out there that prey on the unfortunate insecurities of young girls AND the fact that kids get caught up in the moment, (both sexes) and there is still, after all these years, bad information that floats around the kids world about how pregnancy happens. Now there is this stupid thing with the girls sending racy photos over their phones. What is up with that?
The 60's with the free love reputation, and that's all is was, a reputation, is long over. An awful lot of kids weren't having the free sex they bragged about!
These 60's teenagers are the ones who bred and raised children in thier own image who took it even further, and bred and raised another generation in their lower morality image. Its self perpetuating.
You can't expect a generation to climb high in anything including morals if you don't set the bar high.
QuoteAs far as taking prayer out of schools, you can thank one person for that. I don't know how she gained such a huge influential following and I've always thought that individual schools should have the chance to decide for themselves. It's harder in areas of greater population because there are so many different religions represented. But I'm sure it could be worked out if the parents would get together and talk.
It was simple. People never thought it could happen. They never thought people would stoop that low.
Quote
I don't understand "deviant" lifestyles and I'll never agree with you on homosexuality. Several people who are friends felt as you until they had a homo sexual child of their own. They were very torn about it. Several families were destroyed by it, a couple asked God for guidance and learned to accept it and have done very well, and one close friend never did tell his parents. They both died not ever knowing their son was gay. He has a permanent boy friend now and they are very happy, gentle, well adjusted contributing members of their community. I figure if God lets them happen it can't be all wrong, even if it's hard to understand.
God allows things to happen, right or wrong. He himself says its wrong so it cannot be good.
om 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
knowlege means of ethical and devine knowlege, and reprobate means unfit.
Quotewhy were the boarders left open for so many years and so many immigrants of so many countries allowed to come here? The would be no Muslims or Hindus,Shinto,Tao or anyone else if we hadn't let them in.
So the country would grow. Now we have to limit the immigration so that it doesn't get overcrowded.
Varmit my comment was not meant to be insulting at all. You are all very similar and mostly do and like the same kind on things. All small towns are like that. Very little diversity and most like it that way.That's just the way it is, not a meant to be a cut at all. I could tell you exactly who said it, but I'm sure she wouldn't want to be quoted in this context. But part of it was the fact that its nice to come home to where people are all alike and you pretty much know how they think about things. And I didn't say it, she did so don't start on me!
I'll worry about a stigma on unwed mothers when there is a stigma on unwed fathers! When they used to send girls "away" to have the baby, I never knew why the fathers weren't sent away too. They just went on, life as usual.
I'm not crazy about schools handing out condoms, but I'm told they have to go to the nurse to get them. I wish the parents would do their job so the schools wouldn't be forced into feeling they have to. Haven't many men's rooms had condom machines for ages? Who made that decision?( Not until recently have a few public ladies rooms had condom machines.) What's to keep any kid from buying one there just as they always have...or should have. How about going to the drug store just as they always did? Embarrassed? Too bad. Having to tell their parents they are involved in a pregnancy ISN'T embarrassing? The girls clothes I agree, but if the parents of the girls that dress inappropriately were doing their job the girls wouldn't be allowed to buy flimsy stuff ,much too tight,and they wouldn't sneak them off to school with them in a back pack and try to change into them there. Dressing your kid is not my job. But why preachers and ministers and parents would let them show up in church like that is beyond me. (Boys too.) Sounds like a good subject for a sermon.
Steve, I know the borders were left open so the country could grow, but many didn't /don't want any diversity within that growth, so why are we now complaining that particular groups are "taking over" or changing the ways of this country? We let them in! It's our own fault! You want an all Christian country, don't let anybody else in. No diversity wanted? Then why were they let in? What did people expect them to do, sit in a ghetto and not have children? Learn to "keep their place" like women are supposed to do?
As far as setting the bar high do it! Don't let the local girls do a car wash in a bikini! That's generic, I don't mean your girls.
I agree girls are sexualized much too soon and all the stuff on TV and the sexy ads don't help. Perhaps if the parents aren't up to it it's time for the grandparents and great grandparents to take a stand! They are the ones with the memory of history and can measure change. Speak up !
Quote from: pamagain on July 10, 2010, 09:50:28 AM
that's the kind of prayin I learned to do and my children were taught to do so you see it doesn't MATTER what SOMEbody else says I can or can't do because I can do it anytime I want to anywhere I want to. You can talk to God/Jesus/Buddha/Krishna/Goddess anywhere anytime so spare me the diatribes against the "People who took that right away from us" bull.
So long as that prayer isn't led by a God fearing public school teacher??...so spare me the diatribe about how we can pray whenever or wherever we want.
As for the evil done in His name you're right. That doesn't mean that it came from Him, or was of Him.
Diane, I guess I misunderstood your comment. I apologize.
As for unwed mothers, I see what you're saying, the guys that get these girls pregnant are just as much to blame. However, if the girls were raised properly then it wouldn't happen. Same can be said for the guys.
As for the clothing issue, have you tried to buy girls clothes recently? I have a 6yr old daughter and I can't believe how difficult it is to purchase tasteful clothing for her.
No, I haven't had to buy kids clothes in a long time. All the kids in my life are grown up and no little ones coming along. Perhaps some of the moms on here can help.They tend to buy more of the clothes than the dads. Most of the kids I see are OK but every now and then I spot one. Like the girl who got caught by her Mom at Newark night. On the one hand it was funny, but on the other hand she could have been in real danger if someone was on the prowl. She's probably still locked in her room!
Varmit,
I'm curious as to what your solution would be concerning these things you consider immoral - pornographers/those who watch porn, homosexuals, underage pregnant girls, etc.
QuoteSo long as that prayer isn't led by a God fearing public school teacher??...so spare me the diatribe about how we can pray whenever or wherever we want.
as usual you missed the point............WHICH was........I am perfectly capable of prayin for myself.....so are my kids....we don't need to be LED by ANYbody........ERRRRGGGOOOOO...........I can pray WHEN I want...HOW I want.....WHEREVER I want.
QuoteAs for the evil done in His name you're right. That doesn't mean that it came from Him, or was of Him.
well..............DUH
just because SOME think it "right" doesn't make it OF or FROM Him either.
QuoteHowever, if the girls were raised properly then it wouldn't happen. Same can be said for the guys.
uh.....yeeaahhh......riiigghhhhttt. NOT
QuoteAs for the clothing issue, have you tried to buy girls clothes recently? I have a 6yr old daughter and I can't believe how difficult it is to purchase tasteful clothing for her.
I have a 7 year old and 8 year old granddaughters.......it ain't that hard.
Quote from: pamagain on July 10, 2010, 03:18:55 PM
as usual you missed the point............WHICH was........I am perfectly capable of prayin for myself.....so are my kids....we don't need to be LED by ANYbody........ERRRRGGGOOOOO...........I can pray WHEN I want...HOW I want.....WHEREVER I want.
No Ma'am, didn't miss the point. I understand that a person can pray whenever he or she wants to. Thats not the issue. The point I was making was that a school offical cannot lead a prayer, not a teacher opening her class for the day, not a principal during a graduation ceremony, not a coach before a game. As for not having to be led in prayer, are you saying that your family never says a prayer before a meal, at a funeral, etc? That each of you says your own? Not judging just curoius?
Quote from: pamagain on July 10, 2010, 07:36:57 PM
uh.....yeeaahhh......riiigghhhhttt. NOT
I have a 7 year old and 8 year old granddaughters.......it ain't that hard.
Actually, my statement was exactly right. Tell me, when were the rates of unwed teenage mothers higher, nowadays or 50 years ago?
As for the clothing issue, I guess that depends on a persons idea of tasteful.
Tdub, I don't have time to get into it right now, gotta go to work. I'll address your question later.
QuoteAs for not having to be led in prayer, are you saying that your family never says a prayer before a meal, at a funeral, etc? That each of you says your own? Not judging just curoius?
apples and oranges........and yeah I tend to tune out whoever is talkin and have my own conversation with God. I pray in silence. There is nothin ges on my nerves like listenin to somebody repeat themselves 400 times before they get around to amen.
QuoteActually, my statement was exactly right. Tell me, when were the rates of unwed teenage mothers higher, nowadays or 50 years ago?
actually....proportionately it's not really that much higher.
QuoteAs for the clothing issue, I guess that depends on a persons idea of tasteful.
Pretty sure my idea of tasteful is at LEAST as good as yours.
Quote from: tdub on July 10, 2010, 02:07:08 PM
Varmit,
I'm curious as to what your solution would be concerning these things you consider immoral - pornographers/those who watch porn, homosexuals, underage pregnant girls, etc.
Simple, a return to the Biblical principals and morals given to us by God. Not just in our society but in our homes as well. Have the things you mentioned always been around? Yes. But not on such a widespread, accepted scale as they are today. We, as a society, have this misguided idea that these things are ok, and they are not. Pornography is not art or a form of self expression...its filth, plain and simple. It is harmful, not only spiritually but to families and marriages as well. Unwed mothers are nothing more than a product of a spiritually and Biblically bankrupt upbringing. Instead of teaching our children why they should wait, according to the Scriptures, we give them condoms. Homosexuality is an an abomination before God. Romans 1:24-27 pretty much says it all. If we as a nation, would simply turn back to God and His laws we would not only see the number of these things decrease, but also a prosperity in this country like never before.
Varmit, I wonder how many girls get pregnant who WERE taught right from wrong, went to church, heard it over and over from both parents and fooled around anyway and got caught. There are parents who who would tar you and tape you up on a door if they heard you accuse them of the morally bankrupt upbringing of their children! There are many, many parents who do the best they know how and their sons or daughters succumb to the urges anyway, with the boys, (no, not always) leading the uneducated charge.
Just like "empty guns" sometimes kill people, and people run red lights and stop signs and kill people with and without texting, cell phoning and alcohol involved. Isn't murder, homicide, manslaughter by vehicle, just as morally bankrupt and as much of a sin as premarital sex? Both change lives forever! Why are some people so quick to judge? Who put them in charge? So we stop giving out condoms (I'm not crazy about it myself) to prevent unwanted children and STDs, shall we stop teaching our children to drive too, because they might kill someone? Don't give out condoms and stop sex education. Stop drivers ed classes and stop giving out the car keys until the kids are much older and more responsible. Hey, sounds like a plan! No? Ya know why not? Because many parents can't wait until the kids can drive and they don't have to haul them around any more! Do they talk about the moral aspects of driving responsibly or just the mechanical aspects of making the car go? Is the same young person who is positive they can text and drive at the same time safely, the same one who is sure they can manage sex without protection? Does the Bible or the Constitution say anything about responsible driving? No? Perhaps we should stop judging and help each other figure it out! It only takes one slip to make a child and one slip up to commit vehicular homicide.
Appreciate how you feel about the prayer Pam. My great Uncle John used to say that most people pray like classical music. Just about the time you think it's going to end.....it starts up all over again. :laugh: :laugh: I never say a prayer in public, without remembering that.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on July 14, 2010, 02:35:53 PM
Varmit, I wonder how many girls get pregnant who WERE taught right from wrong, went to church, heard it over and over from both parents and fooled around anyway and got caught. There are parents who who would tar you and tape you up on a door if they heard you accuse them of the morally bankrupt upbringing of their children! There are many, many parents who do the best they know how and their sons or daughters succumb to the urges anyway, with the boys, (no, not always) leading the uneducated charge.
Thats his point. Its hard enough for kids who are raised right to deal with it, those kids who aren't, have no chance. And come on, all this bs of government intervention in the sexual reproduction of humans kids, and all is nothing more than destruction of family. By PP and government interference, they usurp parental authority. Time to put government in its place. by any means necessary.
QuoteJust like "empty guns" sometimes kill people,
I've never heard of a empty gun. where did you hear that? Whoever told you that is a fool.
QuoteDoes the Bible or the Constitution say anything about responsible driving? No? Perhaps we should stop judging and help each other figure it out! It only takes one slip to make a child and one slip up to commit vehicular homicide.
I have more of a problem with the wholesale murder of children done every year than i do with a pregnancy. Funny that you mention murder.... Its apparantly not as bad as we think you know, they do it to the tune of over 50 million in the last 30 years. 50 million. thats 1/6 of the population of our country that has been murdered. And you think peoples moral compass is ok??? sheesh
I said Vehicular Homicide...that's things with wheels that go around? Stay with me Steve, the subject was out of wedlock kids and kids with poor driving skills, and being judgemental, not abortion. Besides, someone on here said the only ones who got murdered needed killing. Sex ed in schools was demanded by parents who belonged to groups who wanted kids to learn better ways for those who weren't taking responsibility at home. It didn't just suddenly spring from some superentendent's head. Lots of discussion and in some areas,voting. They don't want it any more? Then petition the school boards with facts and figures to support that kids aren't getting pregnant anymore and the parents are doing a fine job. It should be specific to each school district. Parents doing a poor job? Kids getting pregnant left and right? Keep it in the schools, or take it to church. How about sex ed in Sunday school? Don't like abortion? Change the law. If parents aren't being parents then there is no "Parental Authority." Besides parents can always sign not to have kids take controversial classes such as sex ed. Or they can here. There was another unloaded weapon killing a few days a go. Nine year old was playing with his fathers "empty" gun and killed his two year old brother.
As far as real murder, keep the moral compass comments to the specific and don't generalize.That's deep in the areas of urban decay that decent people try to stay out of. They have a moral compass, but it's not like ours. They kill because it's how they've solved problems for years. Little and medium towns won't have the problem until the drug lords move in. You can wave Bibles at them all you want and it won't change a thing. by the way, a couple of books Al thought you might like. Citizens of London by Lynne Olson. Interesting WWII stuff and FDR's Deadly Secret, by Steven Lomazow MD and Eric Fettman. More about FDR's illness.
LOL Roma......he was SO right!
Here I go....out on a limb again :P.......oh well. Solution to sexual education or lack thereof..............1. QUIT havin a cow...it's a natural bodily process that if God REALLY didn't want us to have we WOULDN'T.
2 QUIT havin a cow.........I'm pretty sure every last one of you was a teenager at some point in time, IF you are honest I bet VERY few of you made it to marriage before any sex of any kind.
3 QUIT havin a cow and have a REALISTIC conversation with your sons and daughters about the HORMONAL urges they are gonna have instead of labelin them EVIL for even havin the thoughts to start with and tellin them they are fallin short for BEING NORMAL. FOREWARNED IS FOREARMED.
4. QUIT HAVIN A COW!!!!!!!!!!!!! TELL them about condoms ETCETERA so if they DO decide to "give in to their lower nature" ( can't even say that with a straight face it's SO retarded) you won't HAVE a daughter who HIDES from you and sneaks for an abortion or hides from you until she CAN'T anymore and runs away rather than face your "JUDGEMENT" of her "SIN".
5. BE AN ADULT AND A PARENT THEY CAN TRUST INSTEAD OF A JUDGEMENTAL A^%HOLE.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on July 14, 2010, 04:28:11 PM
I said Vehicular Homicide...that's things with wheels that go around? Stay with me Steve,
I think you need to stay with me diane, YOU SAID "Isn't murder, homicide, manslaughter by vehicle, just as morally bankrupt"
QuoteAs far as real murder, keep the moral compass comments to the specific and don't generalize.That's deep in the areas of urban decay that decent people try to stay out of. They have a moral compass, but it's not like ours. They kill because it's how they've solved problems for years. Little and medium towns won't have the problem until the drug lords move in. You can wave Bibles at them all you want and it won't change a thing. by the way, a couple of books Al thought you might like. Citizens of London by Lynne Olson. Interesting WWII stuff and FDR's Deadly Secret, by Steven Lomazow MD and Eric Fettman. More about FDR's illness.
Uhmm drug lords need killing. There is a difference you know. The 10 commandments only condemned murder.
Diane, I never said that it would compeletly eliminate the problem but it would cut it down dramatically. As for the taring and taping, I don't doubt it, doesn't make what I said any less true. Unless they are bringing up their children according to Gods word then they are NOT doing their best. As for the driving example you gave, with the exception of when alchol is involved, I would say no. A person that is texting and causes an accident that kills someone did not intentionally set out to commit murder. A child that is brought up properly knows that premarital sex is wrong and that to engage in it is a sin against God. The difference is that one was an accident the other is intentional. Children don't need condoms, they need a strong foundation and faith in God. As for the sexual education in schools, voting and all that is great when the school boards actually listen to what parents say. Take for example the latest incident in Montanna. The school board along Planned Parenthood wanted to introduce sexual education to children as young as kindergardeners. When the children are at the age of 10, they wanted to "educate" them on the numerous ways that people can actually engage in sexual activity, i.e. positions. Including the mechanics of homosexual behavior.
As for the "moral compass" comment he wasn't generalizing. Anyone that supports abortion has no morals. And as for this one....
Quote from: Diane Amberg on July 14, 2010, 04:28:11 PM
You can wave Bibles at them all you want and it won't change a thing.
You're right. Just waving the Bible and quoting scripture won't change anything. Not until realize the truth about what God offers and what He can do. It takes parents raising their children into strong christians, it takes a return to the Biblical principals of absolute truths.
Pam...quit having a cow, God gave very specific instructions as to when people should engage in sex. That is ONLY after they were married.
2. Quit having a cow....I don't know about you but I actually want my kids to do better than I did.
3. Quit having a cow...No one said that a person is EVIL for having natural urges. And yes, parents should talk about them with their children and arm them with the ways to deal with them.
4. Quit having a cow...part of being a parent IS being judgemental about the decisions they make.
We could solve this by putting all the girls in chastity belts until after they are married, don't you think? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :angel:
well Wilma......puts me in mind of somethin my Dad said one time about just that subject.......somethin to the effect of he'd put all us girls in chastity belts and throw away the key till we were 40 or so but the way his luck ran the boys would just have hack saws and an unlimited supply of new blades LOL
QuotePam...quit having a cow, God gave very specific instructions as to when people should engage in sex. That is ONLY after they were married.
2. Quit having a cow....I don't know about you but I actually want my kids to do better than I did.
3. Quit having a cow...No one said that a person is EVIL for having natural urges. And yes, parents should talk about them with their children and arm them with the ways to deal with them.
4. Quit having a cow...part of being a parent IS being judgemental about the decisions they make
This may surprise you Varmit...but I have read the Bible several times and I know EXACTLY what the MEN who wrote it SAID God said about a LOT of things. I don't accept the part about Eve /Women bein responsible for all the "sin" in the world....ADAM coulda kept his pants on so to speak. No. Being JUDGEMENTAL is NOT part of being a good parent.....givin your child ADVISE about consequences and repercussions IS. I happen to have three of the best kids a Mom could ever want...and I RAISED them WITH my flawed (according to you) way of doin things. so bite me LOL
Well, Pam, what can I say...even the Devil knows whats in the Bible. BTW, its not according to me, just relaying a message.
Quote from: Varmit on July 14, 2010, 07:52:43 PM
Well, Pam, what can I say...even the Devil knows whats in the Bible. BTW, its not according to me, just relaying a message.
yeah.........like I've never heard THAT one before LOL that's the STANDARD fall-back position and it quit botherin me when I was like 10 LOLOLOLOL......
Wilma, only if you can invent one for the boys too. :o :o :o Or chemical castration until they are 25. ;D
Now why didn't I think of that. Maybe our good scientists could come up with something that could be put in their marijuana that would temporarily dampen their natural urges.
Quote from: pamagain on July 14, 2010, 08:05:05 PM
yeah.........like I've never heard THAT one before LOL that's the STANDARD fall-back position and it quit botherin me when I was like 10 LOLOLOLOL......
Well what do you expect me to say? You don't believe the Bible which means you can't be a Christian, so trying to discuss Biblical principles with you is a moot point.
Quote from: Varmit on July 15, 2010, 08:52:26 PM
Well what do you expect me to say? You don't believe the Bible which means you can't be a Christian, so trying to discuss Biblical principles with you is a moot point.
yeah I never heard THAT before either.........I believe in Jesus........by what YOU all consider a "christian" I admit I'm not and damn GLAD I'm not. I generally don't don't discuss RELIGION with people like that either unless I have a LOT of time on my hands because it is a HUGE exercise in futility.
Give me a break.........now I'm sposed to go crawl in a corner or beg for forgiveness or whatever cause varmit, who doesn't know me OR my relationship with the Creator says I'm not a "christian" boohoo. ::) next you'll be tellin me I'm goin to hell and blah blah blah.....got news for ya.......no I'm not.
You say you believe in Christ...ok...where did you learn about Him?
Actually that question is irrelevant. It doesn't matter where you learned about Him. You have admitted to not believing the Bible, supporting homosexuals, and think that premarital sex (even between children) is ok. So even if you say that you believe in Christ you are not Christian. Being a Christan is more than just believing, it is also being a disciple. At the very least it is at least trying to follow the word of God, which you do not. You said that it wouldn't matter if a person was raised with Biblical principles, that it would make no difference what so ever, by that you deny the power of God. So tell me again, how exactly is it that you are Christian?
QuoteYou have admitted to not believing the Bible, supporting homosexuals, and think that premarital sex (even between children) is ok. So even if you say that you believe in Christ you are not Christian.
I will answer your questions........once.
1. I did NOT say I DO NOT believe in the Bible......I SAID it was WRITTEN BY MEN......the TRUTH is in there you just have to dig thru the PREJUDICIAL HUMAN BULLSHIT to get to it.
2.I DON"T support OR NOT support homosexuals.....I SAID I don't CARE.....THAT IT IS THEIR CONVERSATION TO HAVE WITH THE CREATOR WHEN THEY GET THERE.....same with women who get abortions......THAT is THEIR cross to BEAR NOT mine...according to JESUS it is MY JOB to LOVE my fellow man NOT judge them.
3. I don't know WHERE YOU GOT THE SEX BETWEEN CHILDREN THING but I will not even qualify THAT BULLSHIT with an answer.
4. Premarital sex.......I SAID..... ITS A NATURAL URGE.....PEOPLE DO IT......TEENAGERS DO IT.......I AIN'T CONDEMNIN ANYBODY TO HELL FOR DOIN IT
5. I KNOW the power of GOD..........and that story is none of YOUR business my friend.
6.I have been dealin with holier than thou pricks like you seems like forever. I would NEVER presume I was holy enough to JUDGE YOUR "CHRISTIANITY" or LACK THEREOF. SO KEEP your judgmental BULLSHIT to yourself as concerns me and mine my friend.
Well, allow me to retort...
1. The Bible is the Word of God. There is No "prejudicial human bullshit" in it. There is nothing in it that says Eve was solely responsible, it was a shared thing.
2. As a Christian one must offer the gospels to the lost. It is the duty of a Christian to witness and testifiy as we are commanded "Go ye forth and preach the Gospel". So when we see things like abortion and homosexuality we have to speak out against it.
3. The sex between children thing came from you when you said that it was okay for them to engage in it so long as they were safe about it.
4. I never condemed anybody either. All I said is that it is a sin.
5. How can you know the power of God when you don't believe His word, don't think it contains the power to change peoples lives?
6. I am not saying that I am holier than you. Just measuring what you said against the Scripture.
7. Before your last post I asked two questions, not six, you only answered one.
Good thing about this being internet.......everything I said is in writing........anybody who wants to know what I ACTUALLY said can go and read it.......anybody who just takes YOUR twisted around VERSION of what I said is welcome to that too. You took what I said added your own little TWISTS and TURNS about what YOU THINK I said because I don't agree with YOUR particular brand of "Christianity". I know what I said, GOD knows what I said and neither one of us really is too worried about what YOU think about it. I will not be browbeaten by the "Word".
It has been my experience in life....and this AIN'T my first rodeo bud......that the ones who get busy "witnessing" the "Word" are usually in WAY more need of the "Word" than I am.
My knowing the power of God in my life means YOU and people LIKE you HAVE no power in my life. I will not reply to this particular little personal bullshit attack by you again......FINE "CHristian" that you are ( and yes that's sarcasm) I'm afraid I don't NEED your efforts on the behalf of my immortal soul....but We thank you for your efforts and give you two brownie points for tryin :P
How did I twist what you said?
I have twisted nothing that you said..you said
Quote from: pamagain on July 14, 2010, 04:47:04 PM
Here I go....out on a limb again :P.......oh well. Solution to sexual education or lack thereof..............1. QUIT havin a cow...it's a natural bodily process that if God REALLY didn't want us to have we WOULDN'T.
And you are right. Although He did give us instruction on what that process was for.
Quote2 QUIT havin a cow.........I'm pretty sure every last one of you was a teenager at some point in time, IF you are honest I bet VERY few of you made it to marriage before any sex of any kind.
You're probably not too far off the mark on that either. I didn't make to my first marriage before having sex. Doesn't mean I don't want my children to wait.
Quote3 QUIT havin a cow and have a REALISTIC conversation with your sons and daughters about the HORMONAL urges they are gonna have instead of labelin them EVIL for even havin the thoughts to start with and tellin them they are fallin short for BEING NORMAL. FOREWARNED IS FOREARMED.
No one ever said that they called their children EVIL for having natural urges (whose twisting whose words?). Only that it is a SIN to act upon those urges outside of marriage.
Quote4. QUIT HAVIN A COW!!!!!!!!!!!!! TELL them about condoms ETCETERA so if they DO decide to "give in to their lower nature" ( can't even say that with a straight face it's SO retarded) you won't HAVE a daughter who HIDES from you and sneaks for an abortion or hides from you until she CAN'T anymore and runs away rather than face your "JUDGEMENT" of her "SIN".
This one I cannot disagree with more.
Nowhere in your statement have you stated that kids shouldn't have sex, only that they should protect themselves. Your whole "give in to their lower nature" bit and how its "..so retarded can't say it with a straight face" hate to break it to you but that is exactly what it is. Its walking in the flesh instead of in the Spirit.
Quote5. BE AN ADULT AND A PARENT THEY CAN TRUST INSTEAD OF A JUDGEMENTAL A^%HOLE.
I would rather be a Chritian parent and instill in them a trust and faith in God and His word. That way when the "urge" hits them, as it will, they will have a better understanding of what it is for and when it should be acted on.
Thank you, Pam.
Since when did the Political board convert to being the Religion board?
Varmit will have to explain it.
Quote from: pamagain on July 16, 2010, 09:20:14 AM
I will answer your questions........once.
1. I did NOT say I DO NOT believe in the Bible......I SAID it was WRITTEN BY MEN......the TRUTH is in there you just have to dig thru the PREJUDICIAL HUMAN BULLSHIT to get to it.
2.I DON"T support OR NOT support homosexuals.....I SAID I don't CARE.....THAT IT IS THEIR CONVERSATION TO HAVE WITH THE CREATOR WHEN THEY GET THERE.....same with women who get abortions......THAT is THEIR cross to BEAR NOT mine...according to JESUS it is MY JOB to LOVE my fellow man NOT judge them.
3. I don't know WHERE YOU GOT THE SEX BETWEEN CHILDREN THING but I will not even qualify THAT BULLSHIT with an answer.
4. Premarital sex.......I SAID..... ITS A NATURAL URGE.....PEOPLE DO IT......TEENAGERS DO IT.......I AIN'T CONDEMNIN ANYBODY TO HELL FOR DOIN IT
5. I KNOW the power of GOD..........and that story is none of YOUR business my friend.
6.I have been dealin with holier than thou pricks like you seems like forever. I would NEVER presume I was holy enough to JUDGE YOUR "CHRISTIANITY" or LACK THEREOF. SO KEEP your judgmental BULLSHIT to yourself as concerns me and mine my friend.
Pam, after months of reading the self righteous, uninformed, unsupported, humanistic drivel you regurgitate continually I have concluded that your non-judgmental love is quite hollow and absent any semblance of long suffering or kindness. Looking at #6 in your ad nauseam diatribe I see a clear contradiction between your comments there and your claims of being non-judgmental and loving. Your judgmental qualities are just as evident as those you are attempting to ascribe to others. Yes, I'm making a reasoned judgment, and no, I have no problem doing so. BTW, save the caps key, we already know you're emphatically grounded in your 'beliefs'.
posted this as an answer on another thread.......thought it fit your little diatribe here also Patriot........
QuoteThe only way NOT to judge is to accept people with all the things that piss you off even if you think/KNOW they are wrong....
I accept you Varmit, you Steve, you Patriot, you Red......warts and all.
Y'all have a most wonderful weekend
my last words on the subject.