1. Prominent among the coalition organizations participating in the aid flotilla is the Turkish IHH (Insani Yardim Vakfi, IHH, "humanitarian relief fund"). It is a radical Islamic organization, established in 1992 by a member of the Turkish Refah Party and formally registered in Istanbul in 1995.
2. As far back as 1996, it was identified by the CIA as a radical Islamic humanitarian organization named International Humanitaire Hilfsorganization (IHH) a.k.a International Humanitarian Relief Organization, with its main offices in Zagreb and Sarajevo and headquarters in Germany. The CIA report noted that the organization had connections with extremist groups in Iran and Algeria.
3. The January 1996 CIA report entitled International Islamic NGOs and Links to Terrorism was declassified by the American administration after the September 2001 attacks for use in the government trials of captured Al Qaeda members. The report mentions a large number of Islamic organizations affiliated with radical Islamic groups.
4. The report deals with the charities and their involvement in terrorism during the conflict in Bosnia, where aiding Muslims in distress was an Islamic religious duty. Islamic activists dominate the leadership of the largest charities, and prominent members of some smaller organizations have been identified as extremists. The main objectives of the organizations include proselytizing, helping the needy and defending Muslim communities. Where Muslims are engaged in armed conflict, some Islamic organizations provide military aid as part of a "humanitarian" package.
5. All the major and most of the minor Islamic charities were significant players in the former Yugoslavia, particularly in aiding Bosnian Muslims. Their contributions represented a significant proportion of the humanitarian aid received. According to the US embassy in Riyadh, Saudi nationals alone gave $150 million through Islamic NGOs in 1994. Most of the offices of NGOs active in Bosnia are located in Zagreb, Sarajevo, Zenica, and Tuzla. Their field of operations appears to be confined to the Muslim areas in the northeastern and central parts of the country.
6. The CIA report identified International Humanitaire Hilfsorganization (IHH) as part of 15 organizations employing members or otherwise facilitating the activities of terrorist groups operating in Bosnia. Some Islamic NGOs not included in the list have terrorist connections outside of the Balkans.
7. Some the charities mentioned in the report were designated by the United States as terrorist organizations after the 1998 embassy bombings in Africa, while the majority were designated only after 9/11.
8. IHH is not designated by the USA and was designated by Israel only in 2008 because of its connections with Hamas and its fronts within the Union of Good umbrella organization, which, along with its 36 affiliated associations, was outlawed by Israel.
This piece was written as the flotilla left port in Turkey. More on the IHH Terrorist Organization:
Israel: Gaza Freedom Flotilla Organizers Linked To Worldwide Terrorism
Israel News Agency
By Joel Leyden Jerusalem ---- May 29, 2010 .... The "Gaza Freedom Flotilla", a group of ships carrying up to 800 people and 10,000 tons of supplies destined for the Gaza Strip has the alledged aim of stirring international debate regarding the humanitarian situation in Gaza. However, questions have been raised as to their motives especially given evidence of the organizer's direct ties to international terrorist organizations including al Qaida and Hamas.
Israel security sources have told the Israel News Agency that the main organization behind the "freedom" flotilla that is now sailing towards the Gaza Strip is called The Turkish Humanitarian Relief Foundation (IHH), a so-called "relief" organization from Turkey.
This is an organization unabashedly proud of its close ties to Hamas, a terror organization as recognized by the United States, Israel and the European Union (EU).
The Turkish Humanitarian Relief Foundation is openly supportive of Hamas, an organization that is widely seen as the one of the largest perpetrators of human rights violations, having violently seized control of the Gaza Strip, and committed immeasurable human rights violations against its own people, not to mention hundreds of terror attacks initiated targeting the citizens of Israel.
These aren't the only roles the IHH has played to support Islamic terror, as if this wasn't enough. In fact, not only is IHH linked to global Islamic terror organizations, but it is the direct supporter of not only terrorism against Israel, but a primary backer of world-wide terrorism against nations which practice democracy.
At the heart of many terrorist networks are so-called Islamic "relief" organizations have proven invaluable as sources of cash, weapons, and recruitment of terror operatives. So effective is their role in covering up terrorist activity from the international intelligence community under the guise of promoting humanitarian aid, that Osama bin Laden has admitted that these NGO "charities" have been al-Qaida primary source of funding and have enabled the build-up of his organization to fly under the radar.
Examples of Islamic organizations funneling funds to terror organizations masked as NGOs include: the Benevolence International Foundation, Global Relief Foundation, Taibah International Aid Association, all of whom and countless other have been shut down, banned and its leaders arrested by the US government.
The IHH is one of such organizations, a primary example of an NGO that functions as a "charitable" organization in order to divert resources to terror activity.
In a working paper for The Danish Institute for International Studies, an independent international affairs research institution of Denmark, terrorism analyst and expert witness for the prosecution in U.S. terrorism trials, Evan Kohlmann details IHH's extensive affiliation with the Islamic terror network, including: explicit ties to Hamas, al-Qaida, as well other militant Islamic organizations based in Algeria, Libya, Turkey.
Even in Turkey there have been hostile exchanges between the IHH and the Turkish government, who had previously made efforts to combat home-grown terrorism. In December 1997, Turkey authorities began a criminal investigation into IHH when sources revealed to them that the IHH had purchased semi-automatic weapons from Islamic terror groups. Their Istanbul bureau was thoroughly searched and the local leaders arrested. Inside the bureau an array of items were found: "firearms, explosives, bomb-making instructions and a jihadi flag." After analyzing seized IHH documents, the Turkish authorities determined that the arrested leaders had been on their way to fight in Afghanistan, Bosnia, and Chechnya.
During the 1999 earthquake in Turkey, the IHH was banned from providing relief aid efforts because the organization was deemed by the government as a fundamentalist organization and would not provide transparency of their bank accounts to Turkish officials.
It is odd that today Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan supports the IHH in their attempt to break the maritime closure of the Gaza Strip, and ranks the IHH's efforts as his "top priority" for the country.
The IHH has also provided aid to insurgents seeking to kill American troops in Iraq. In his working paper, Kohlmann notes that the IHH played a large role in providing "charitable donations" to insurgent rich areas in central Iraq such as Fallujah and that the current president of IHH and organizer of the "Freedom Flotilla", Bulent Yildrim, had galvanized anti-America sentiment and incitement in these areas against U.S. troops during the Iraqi War.
Not only have the IHH stirred trouble in Turkey for supporting terror, but their aims to promote terror activity have reached a worldwide level.
In 1996, phone records of the IHH showed calls to an Al Qaida guesthouse in Milan and to Algerian terror cells throughout Europe.
Kohlmann also cited that famed counter-terrorism magistrate Jean-Louis Bruguiere found that in the mid 1990's Bulent Yildrim also conspired to recruit members in anticipation for a coming jihad, and sent IHH members to war zones in Muslim countries in order for them to gain combatant experience. He sought to obtain support by these Muslim countries for the IHH by transferring weapon and explosives caches to these countries.
Jean-Louis Bruguiere has also testified to a U.S. Court in 2003 that the IHH played a "central role" in the attempted al-Qaida Millenium bomb plot targeting Los Angeles International Airport, among other areas of the world. Bruguiere added that the IHH is a "cover-up" NGO which had served to recruit, forge documents and traffic weapons for the terrorists involved in the terror attack attempt.
The same U.S. Court document cites that the IHH has also had contact with Abdurahman Alamoudi, founder of the American Muslim Council, who is serving a 23 year sentence for illegal transactions with the Libyan government and was part of a Libyan plot to assassinate the Saudi Crown Prince Abdullah.
The IHH organization is banned in Israel as part of a group of organizations ironically titled the "Union of Good." Israel Defense Minister Ehud Barak signed an order citing the IHH as an organization that fund-raises and assists Hamas.
It would be comical to assume that an organization so entrenched in terror activity has good intentions in orchestrating a large PR publicity stunt for an area with a supposed "humanitarian crisis", and it would be naïve to assume that most of the so called peace activists on the ships heading towards Gaza are unaware of their organization's connections with terror.
In fact, one of the 39 principles of Islamic Jihad or Holy War practiced and advocated by Al-Qaeda's Jihad, which was exposed in a private study by Israel researcher Col. Jonathan D. Halevi (res.), explicitly illustrates a how-to chapter on performing electronic Jihad.
These people are not riding donkeys, rather these 21st century Jihadists have their fingers dancing on computer keyboards across the globe. In performing electronic Jihad - Al-Salem attributes paramount importance to the Internet as a component for Jihad. He calls believers to join the Jihad against all Jews and Christians by participating in Internet forums to defend the Islam and Mujahideen, to preach Jihad and to encourage Muslims to learn more about this sacred duty. The Internet provides an opportunity to reach vast, target audiences on Facebook, Twitter and YouTube and respond swiftly to opposing allegations. Islamic computer experts are asked to use their skills and experience in destroying American, Jewish and secular Websites as well as morally corrupt web sites. The so called Gaza Peace ships are using this inciteful electronic Jihad as they broadcast live using the Internet from their ships.
Sadly, much of the international media from the BBC, SKY News and CNN to Reuters, AP and AFP are not reporting about recent previous terror activity and present media public relations tactics of the IHH, as well as the long history of bogus NGO's created to divert funds to Islamic terror groups.
The IHH and organizations similar to it have always sought to generate PR publicity stunts of providing humanitarian aid in order to mobilize their extremist base and the "Freedom Flotilla" is yet another example of this.
I wondered how long it would take for the zionists to start their BS pubilicity campaign. The IHH is not a terrorist organization, being investigated doesn't make them guilty. They are not on the list, end of story.
By the way, 1 boat out of the more than 25 that have attempted to break the blockade in the last 4 years hardly equates "involved bigtime" The flotilla was led by european organizations.
One of the people killed was an American teenager. But just like Rachel Corrie (an american who was ran over by an Israeli bulldozer) you zionists chicken hawks and your propaganda machines will prove that America is not your primary interests, although you live here and take advantage of our resources and political system. America is just a tool for you to protect Israel in her sins agains humanity.
Israel: Hamas Gaza Terror Flotilla Organizers Not Humanitarian, Wanted Massacre For Public RelationsIsrael News Agency
By Joel Leyden
May 31, 2010"The so called Gaza Peace Freedom Flotilla is using
electronic Jihad to incite thousands of Muslims."Jerusalem ---- May 31, 2010 .... The Israel Navy this morning blocked the Hamas backed "Gaza Freedom Flotilla", a group of ships carrying up to 800 people from entering the Gaza Strip.
Israel was well aware that this was not a humanitarian love boat trek but rather an exercise in Islamic digital PR.
The organizers of the Palestine Flotilla to Gaza consisted of some of the worst global terror groups including Hamas, Islamic Jihad, al-Qaeda and their fund raisers the Turkish Humanitarian Relief Foundation.
What made this Palestine PR stunt or electronic Jihad exercise even more barbaric was the blatant use of volunteers on the ship who had good and true humanitarian intentions.
Some of these humanitarian volunteers were unaware that they were being used by the terror group Hamas as Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the Turkish Humanitarian Relief Foundation used both diplomats and volunteers from the UK, the US, Sweden, France, Germany and other countries as human shields as Hamas attacked a peaceful IDF boarding force with guns, knives and clubs.
Just before sunrise the IDF Navy intercepted six ships that were attempting to break the maritime closure of the Gaza Strip. Israel and the Israel Navy provided numerous warnings issued prior to the incident. The Israel Navy requested that the Hamas backed ships to redirect themselves towards Ashdod where they would be able to unload their aid supplies which would then be transferred to Gaza after undergoing security inspections.
Israel provides tons of food, water, medical supplies and fuel to Gaza on a daily basis. Israeli officials repeated that if this was a true humanitarian event, not a PR exercise, Hamas would have used the existing channels - the UN, the EU and Israel to transfer whatever cargo they had.
During the boarding of the Gaza flotilla ships, protesters onboard demonstrated that this was not a non violent event as they attacked IDF Naval personnel with live fire and light weaponry including knives and clubs.
"The Palestinian Gaza demonstrators had clearly prepared their weapons in advance for this specific purpose," the IDF told the Israel News Agency.
Israel was aware that Hamas true intent was to gather support for Islamic Jihad against Israel and all Western, democratic nations. The IDF knew that Hamas would not hesitate to use the flotilla volunteers as human shields and thus employed riot dispersal means.
Hamas, Islamic Jihad, al-Qaeda and the The Turkish Humanitarian Relief Foundation were responsible for murdering 10 demonstrators on the flotilla and injuring 7 Israel Defense Forces commandos, 2 of which remain in severe condition.
All of the injured from Israel and abroad are currently being evacuated by helicopter to hospitals in Israel.
In the coming hours, the Hamas backed Gaza flotilla ships will be directed to the port of Ashdod port, while the IDF naval forces perform security checks in order to identify the people on the ships and the cargo brought on board.
Israel security sources have told the Israel News Agency that the main organization behind the so-called "Gaza Freedom" flotilla is the Turkish Humanitarian Relief Foundation (IHH), a so-called "relief" organization from Turkey.
This is an organization which does not conceal its close ties to Hamas, a terror organization as recognized by the United States, Israel and the European Union (EU).
The Turkish Humanitarian Relief Foundation is openly supportive of Hamas, an organization that is widely seen as the one of the largest perpetrators of human rights violations, having violently seized control of the Gaza Strip, and committed immeasurable human rights violations against secular Palestine Arabs, not to mention hundreds of terror attacks initiated targeting the citizens of Israel.
Many find it odd that Turkey Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan supports the IHH in their attempt to break the maritime closure of the Gaza Strip and ranks the IHH's efforts as his "top priority" for the country. Turkey has withdrawn its ambassador to Israel and canceled three joint military drills as they keep a watchful eye on riots taking place at the entrance of Israeli ambassador's residence in Ankara - something they could have prevented.
The IHH has also provided aid to insurgents seeking to kill US troops in Iraq.
Not only have the IHH stirred trouble in Turkey for supporting terror, but their aims to promote terror activity have reached a worldwide level.
In 1996, phone records of the IHH showed calls to an Al Qaida guesthouse in Milan and to Algerian terror cells throughout Europe.
Sadly, much of the international media including the BBC, SKY News and CNN to Reuters, AP and AFP are not reporting the terror activity and present media public relations tactics of the IHH, as well as the long history of false NGO's created to divert funds to Islamic terror groups.
The IHH and organizations similar to it have always sought to generate PR publicity stunts of providing humanitarian aid in order to mobilize their extremist base and the "Freedom Flotilla" is yet another example of this.
"It's going to be a big scandal, no doubt about it," Benjamin Ben-Eliezer, the Israel trade minister, said in an interview in Doha, where he was on a visit to Qatar, one of the few Arab states where Israeli officials can travel.
"The whole thing was a provocation from its beginning. They planned it almost two months ago, and we tried all the way to explain to them: 'Gentlemen, don't try to do it because we have all the right to defend ourselves'," he said in English.
StandWithUs, a pro Israel, pro democracy group denounced the anti-Israel flotilla goals and lynching attempt.
"We regret the violence, unnecessary casualties, and loss of life instigated by the anti-Israel flotilla when it defied national and international law, and provoked a confrontation with Israel early this morning. It did not have to be like this," said StandWithUs Israel Director Michael Dixon.
"Israel has sought peace and compromise with its neighbors for all of its 62 years. However, Hamas terrorists and supporters, in an intentional provocation against Israel, violated international law, violently attacked Israeli military and security personnel with steel pipes, knives, rocks and, according to the most recent news reports, with gun fire, and provoked bloodshed."
As the the White House says it: "deeply regretted" the loss of life and injuries sustained in the clashes, those of us living in Israel remain committed to peace.
Israelis know that the Palestine people are being used and abused by Hamas and Islamic Jihad.
That they use civilians as human shields to create massacres and then attempt to secure PR for Islamic Jihad (holy war against Jews and Christians) - a very unhumanitarian, bloody act that has now transcended the dusty streets of Gaza and has found its way onto "Gaza peace ships" in the Mediterranean Sea.
The Israel News Agency, which is accredited by Israel Government Press Office, was the first on line news organization in Israel. The INA reaches up to 60 million readers through Google News and Internet social networking channels such as Facebook, Twitter and YouTube from New York, London, Moscow and Paris to Toronto, Los Angeles, China and India. Leyden is presently launching the United States News Agency using the INA as a successful working model.
Another BS article from the same lying BS reporter. This was a humanitarian mission, run completely by internationally recognized humanitarian organizations, Stop spamming us with your BS
Quote from: Anmar on June 03, 2010, 02:33:42 PM
I wondered how long it would take for the zionists to start their BS pubilicity campaign. The IHH is not a terrorist organization, being investigated doesn't make them guilty. They are not on the list, end of story.
By the way, 1 boat out of the more than 25 that have attempted to break the blockade in the last 4 years hardly equates "involved bigtime" The flotilla was led by european organizations.
One of the people killed was an American teenager. But just like Rachel Corrie (an american who was ran over by an Israeli bulldozer) you zionists chicken hawks and your propaganda machines will prove that America is not your primary interests, although you live here and take advantage of our resources and political system. America is just a tool for you to protect Israel in her sins agains humanity.
Funny how you justify the attacking israeli soldiers. Sure there was a few activists killed. IF they were so peaceful, then why did they pick up weapons and attack the soldiers? That was stupid if they are nothing but activists. What this was is a setup by anti israeli organizations to try and get the soldiers to massecre the ones on the ship so they can drive the world against israel. The problem is it didn't work. The soldiers as they were traind to do diffused the situation with minimal casualties.
Quote from: Anmar on June 03, 2010, 02:47:27 PM
Another BS article from the same lying BS reporter. This was a humanitarian mission, run completely by internationally recognized humanitarian organizations, Stop spamming us with your BS
Humanitarian mission my ass. IF they were on a humanitarian mission, then they are absolute morons to attack the soldiers.
Israel had every right to search the ships.
I'm not justifying anything. But when someone breaks into your house, you fight them, right? I mean, they have the right to defend themselves, don't they? Are you saying that you wouldn't have defended yourself if some soldier drops out of the sky onto your boat?
They didn't attack the soldeirs genius, the soldiers attacked the boat....
In a "cause" like this you are going to have 99% people who are sincere in their desire to bring humanitarian aid and 1% looking to "make a point". Generally the ones who are sincere in their desire to help are the ones who end up with busted heads and dead.
Personally I have ALways thought Israel is arrogant, argumentative and confrontational in the extreme. They are like the chihuahua my Dads cousin had when I was a kid...I absolutely HATED that dog..it would run out and bite you and when you swelled up at it run back under the furniture where you couldn't get at it yippin like IT was in pain and get MY ass whupped......that's what I think of when I think of Israel.......they are the chihauhau with the god complex and the USA is the furniture it hides under when it bites.
And before you trot out the well they are "the Chosen" people of God.........whatever......yeah THEY think THEY are.....WE are just a TOOL they are usin to get what they want.......
The "Humanitarian Relief" Wing of Hamas and Al-Qaeda
Written by John Perazzo
Wednesday, 02 June 2010
Frontpage Magazine
The Foundation for Human Rights and Freedom and Humanitarian Relief (better known by its Turkish acronym, IHH) is the group that organized the six-ship flotilla which recently tried, without success, to sail all the way to Gaza. Established in Turkey in 1992, the Foundation sends aid to distressed areas throughout the Middle East - in the form of food, medicine, vocational education, and building supplies.
A prime destination for this aid is Gaza, where - according to IHH - Palestinians are being oppressed by an unjustified Israeli naval blockade. (For the record, that blockade was put in place to prevent Hamas, which controls Gaza politically and has fired thousands of rockets into southern Israeli towns in recent years, from importing additional weaponry from Iran and other allies abroad.)
For several days last week, as the flotilla approached Gaza, Israel issued warnings that the ships would not be permitted to reach their destination without first submitting to an inspection of their cargoes - to ensure that no weaponry was being transported. But when the respective crews of the vessels refused to comply, Israeli commandos took action and intercepted the flotilla in the early morning hours of May 31. The IHH-affiliated activists responded with violence, instantly attacking the commandos with knives and clubs, and throwing one of them overboard. In the melee that ensued, ten activists were killed and seven Israeli soldiers were wounded. How could this be? How can we be expected to believe that a well-meaning "humanitarian relief" group would ever behave in a manner that might provoke violent reprisals from Israeli troops?
A more thorough examination of IHH's history and affiliations explains everything:
While IHH is indeed involved in the aforementioned humanitarian endeavors, its overall objectives are much broader. Belying the dove of peace whose image appears on its logo, IHH overtly supports Hamas, is sympathetic to al Qaeda, and maintained regular contact with al Qaeda cells and the Sunni insurgency during the bloodiest stretches of the Iraq War. Moreover, IHH has supported jihadist terror networks not only in Iraq, but also in Bosnia, Syria, Afghanistan, and Chechnya. According to Carnegie Endowment analyst Henri Barkey, IHH is "an Islamist organization" that "has been deeply involved with Hamas for some time." A 2006 report by the Danish Institute for International Studies characterized IHH as one of many "charitable front groups that provide support to Al-Qaida" and the global jihad.
Is the IHH beginning to sound less and less like a "humanitarian relief" group? Let's look a little deeper still:
***According to a French intelligence report, in the mid-1990s IHH leader Bülent Yildirim was directly involved in recruiting "veteran soldiers" to organize jihad activities, and in dispatching IHH operatives to war zones in Islamic countries to gain combat experience. The report also stated that IHH had transferred money as well as "caches of firearms, knives and pre-fabricated explosives" to Muslim fighters in those countries. Given this track record, can Israel's concern about the contents of the IHH flotilla cargoes really be considered excessive or unwarranted?
***In 1996, IHH continued to burnish its credentials as a "humanitarian relief" organization when an examination of its telephone records showed that repeated calls had been made to an al Qaeda guest house in Milan and to Algerian terrorists operating in Europe. That same year, the U.S. government formally designated IHH as a terrorist organization with ties to extremist groups in Iran and Algeria, and as a facilitator of terrorism in Bosnia.
***In December 1997, Turkish authorities, acting on a tip from sources claiming that IHH leaders had purchased automatic weapons from other regional Islamic militant groups, initiated a domestic criminal investigation of IHH. A thorough search of the organization's Istanbul bureau uncovered a large assortment of firearms, explosives, bomb-making instructions, and a "jihad flag." In addition, Turkish authorities seized a host of IHH documents whose contents ultimately led investigators to conclude that the group's members "were going to fight in Afghanistan, Bosnia, and Chechnya."
***Near the end of 2000, IHH organized protests against proposals to overthrow that humanitarian icon, Iraqi President Saddam Hussein; American and Israeli flags were burned at these rallies.
***During the April 2001 trial of would-be "millennium bomber" Ahmed Ressam, it was revealed that IHH had played an "important role" in the plot to blow up Los Angeles International Airport on December 31, 1999. Some reasonable observers might contend that to classify such a pursuit under the heading of "humanitarian relief" would require an unduly broad definition of that term.
***In 2002, investigators found correspondences from IHH in the offices of the Success Foundation, a Muslim Brotherhood-affiliated organization whose Secretary was Abdul Rahman Alamoudi. For the record: The Brotherhood was the ideological forebear of Hamas and al Qaeda; it supports jihad; and it seeks to impose shari'a law on the entire civilized world. Mr. Alamoudi, for his part, is currently serving a prison term of nearly a quarter-century for his role as a funder of international terrorism. He is best known for having proudly declared himself to be a passionate supporter of Hamas and Hezbollah. The connections to "humanitarian relief" seem rather tenuous here.
***According to a report issued by a website close to Israeli military intelligence: "Since Hamas took over the Gaza Strip, IHH has supported Hamas' propaganda campaigns by organizing public support conferences in Turkey." The report also states that IHH continues to operate widely throughout Gaza and to funnel large sums of money to support the Hamas infrastructure.
***In January 2008, an IHH delegation met with Ahmed Bahar, chairman of Hamas' council in the Gaza Strip. At the meeting, the delegation not only boasted about the large amount of financial support it had given Hamas during the preceding year, but also declared its intent to double that sum in the future. Once again, we are left to wonder how any of this falls under the rubric of "humanitarian relief."
***In 2008 Israel banned IHH from the country because of the organization's membership in the "Union of Good" (UOG), a Hamas-founded umbrella coalition comprised of more than 50 Islamic charities (most of which are associated with the global Muslim Brotherhood) that channel money and goods to Hamas-affiliated institutions. In December 2008, the U.S. government designated UOG as a terrorist entity that was guilty of "diverting" donations that were intended for "social welfare and other charitable services," and using those funds "to strengthen Hamas' political and military position."
***In January 2009, IHH head Bülent Yildirim met with Khaled Mash'al, chairman of Hamas' political bureau in Damascus, and Mash'al thanked Yildirim for the support of his organization.
***In November 2009 IHH activist Izzat Shahin transferred tens of thousands of American dollars from IHH to the Islamic Charitable Society (in Hebron) and Al-Tadhamun (in Nablus), two of Hamas' most important front groups posing as "charitable societies."
This, then, is the IHH: a pack of anti-Semitic supporters of terrorism, cloaking themselves in the vestments of victimhood, and bleating to the world about how unfairly they have been treated by the very nation whose extermination they have worked long and hard to bring about. It's actually a story that has become quite familiar.
Quote from: Anmar on June 03, 2010, 02:52:36 PM
I'm not justifying anything. But when someone breaks into your house, you fight them, right? I mean, they have the right to defend themselves, don't they? Are you saying that you wouldn't have defended yourself if some soldier drops out of the sky onto your boat?
They didn't attack the soldeirs genius, the soldiers attacked the boat....
Defense of their home?? ROTFLMAO you really are stretching.
You drive your boat/car/mule or whatever and meet my defense border, and then refuse to stop, I'm going to shut your butt down right there. Secondly these nimrods have no business entering someone elses territory without permission. They did not have permission to cross into the area.
That flotilla was a unsanctioned entry into controlled waters protecting the israeli nation. When they refused to alter course, to a offered port in israel, they became a military target. And these idiots knew it would happen and they knew what would illicit a miltary response once boarded and engaged the soldiers in order to drum up sympathy.
Lets put it this way, they asked for it, and when they got what they asked for they start calling foul.
Quote from: pamagain on June 03, 2010, 03:49:10 PM
In a "cause" like this you are going to have 99% people who are sincere in their desire to bring humanitarian aid and 1% looking to "make a point". Generally the ones who are sincere in their desire to help are the ones who end up with busted heads and dead.
Personally I have ALways thought Israel is arrogant, argumentative and confrontational in the extreme. They are like the chihuahua my Dads cousin had when I was a kid...I absolutely HATED that dog..it would run out and bite you and when you swelled up at it run back under the furniture where you couldn't get at it yippin like IT was in pain and get MY ass whupped......that's what I think of when I think of Israel.......they are the chihauhau with the god complex and the USA is the furniture it hides under when it bites.
And before you trot out the well they are "the Chosen" people of God.........whatever......yeah THEY think THEY are.....WE are just a TOOL they are usin to get what they want.......
Lets put it this way, they handle themselves very well on their own. No other nation in this world has taken on a 3 front war to its borders, and won.
This bunch maybe had good intentions but the 1% in there your talking about had the control apparantly. What idiot on a humanitarian aid boat fires at soldiers? That is sheer stupidity. Your a** is sitting on a metal tub in the middle of a deep body of water with nowhere to go.
Anmar,I'm getting off track here but a few months back before you dropped off the radar you said on the forum that you had been to basic training (or boot camp) and another forum member asked where you had went to boot camp at. You departed the forum world before you gave an answer but I'd still like to hear where you went to basic training and what branch of service you were in.
This incident occurred in international waters--- looks like piracy to me! ::) ::)
Quote from: sixdogsmom on June 03, 2010, 08:41:01 PM
This incident occurred in international waters--- looks like piracy to me! ::) ::)
Now even the UN doesn't say its piracy. now thats stretching!
It is however defensive move that is justified. Since those waters are known for terrorist organizations to move weapons to gaza, then it is justified maneuver for israel to patrol those waters to stop them from delivering their weapons. And if these groups were legit, why aren't they cooperating with allowing their vessels to be checked?
SOrry but your piracy theory doesn't hold water. IF it did then what many nations are doing down there near somolia patrolling international waters is piracy.
They did not enter Israeli waters, the attack occured in INTERNATIONAL waters. There was no attack on Israel, it was the Israelis who attacked the convoy. How much are you willing to lie and sell your principals in order to distort the facts?
About Basic, that info is classified.
Quote from: Anmar on June 04, 2010, 01:02:16 AM
They did not enter Israeli waters, the attack occured in INTERNATIONAL waters. There was no attack on Israel, it was the Israelis who attacked the convoy. How much are you willing to lie and sell your principals in order to distort the facts?
About Basic, that info is classified.
IF the boats were attacked, they would have used fire from the helicopters. The boarding is not an attack. THey were warned many times before getting there that they would have to come to and be searched.
Heres something for yall to peruse, International law concerning just this topic.
The San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea. Specifically, paragraph 67-68:
67. Merchant vessels flying the flag of neutral States may not be attacked unless they:
(a) are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture;
(b) engage in belligerent acts on behalf of the enemy;<
(c) act as auxiliaries to the enemy s armed forces;
(d) are incorporated into or assist the enemy s intelligence system;
(e) sail under convoy of enemy warships or military aircraft; or
(f) otherwise make an effective contribution to the enemy s military action, e.g., by carrying military materials, and it is not feasible for the attacking forces to first place passengers and crew in a place of safety. Unless circumstances do not permit, they are to be given a warning, so that they can re-route, off-load, or take other precautions.
So these were ostensibly merchant vessels who were flying the flags of neutral states (since Turkey and Greece have not declared that they officially side with Hamas in their war for Israel's destruction). However, there was definitely reasonable grounds to believe that they were carrying contraband and
breaching a blockade (since that was their very public, stated intention).
After receiving prior warning (see this YouTube video) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6jDIQr59Sk they intentionally refused to stop, and they quite clearly resisted visit, search or capture.
Just in case you didn't know, a blockade can be and is legal to setup in international waters. And all nations as well as civilian ships are subject to that blockade and may not cross it without permission of the country enforcing the blockade. To do so constitutes an attack on that country.
So your opinion that the israelis attacked first is wrong, the flotilla violated the law. Secondly, the israelis followed the international law of the sea to the letter.
Look at the following
1. A maritime blockade is in effect off the coast of Gaza. Such blockade has been imposed, as Israel is currently in a state of armed conflict with the Hamas regime that controls Gaza, which has repeatedly bombed civilian targets in Israel with weapons that have been smuggled into Gaza via the sea.
2. Maritime blockades are a legitimate and recognized measure under international law that may be implemented as part of an armed conflict at sea.
3. A blockade may be imposed at sea, including in international waters, so long as it does not bar access to the ports and coasts of neutral states.
4. The naval manuals of several western countries, including the US and England recognize the maritime blockade as an effective naval measure and set forth the various criteria that make a blockade valid, including the requirement of give due notice of the existence of the blockade.
5. In this vein, it should be noted that Israel publicized the existence of the blockade and the precise coordinates of such by means of the accepted international professional maritime channels. Israel also provided appropriate notification to the affected governments and to the organizers of the Gaza protest flotilla. Moreover, in real time, the ships participating in the protest flotilla were warned repeatedly that a maritime blockade is in effect.
6. Here, it should be noted that under customary law, knowledge of the blockade may be presumed once a blockade has been declared and appropriate notification has been granted, as above.
7. Under international maritime law, when a maritime blockade is in effect, no boats can enter the blockaded area. That includes both civilian and enemy vessels.
8. A state may take action to enforce a blockade. Any vessel that violates or attempts to violate a maritime blockade may be captured or even attacked under international law. The US Commander's Handbook on the Law of Naval Operations sets forth that a vessel is considered to be in attempt to breach a blockade from the time the vessel leaves its port with the intention of evading the blockade.
9. Here we should note that the protesters indicated their clear intention to violate the blockade by means of written and oral statements. Moreover, the route of these vessels indicated their clear intention to violate the blockade in violation of international law.
10. Given the protesters explicit intention to violate the naval blockade, Israel exercised its right under international law to enforce the blockade. It should be noted that prior to undertaking enforcement measures, explicit warnings were relayed directly to the captains of the vessels, expressing Israel's intent to exercise its right to enforce the blockade.
11. Israel had attempted to take control of the vessels participating in the flotilla by peaceful means and in an orderly fashion in order to enforce the blockade. Given the large number of vessels participating in the flotilla, an operational decision was made to undertake measures to enforce the blockade a certain distance from the area of the blockade.
12. Israeli personnel attempting to enforce the blockade were met with violence by the protesters and acted in self defense to fend off such attacks.
Quote from: srkruzich on June 04, 2010, 06:15:12 AM
Just in case you didn't know, a blockade can be and is legal to setup in international waters. And all nations as well as civilian ships are subject to that blockade and may not cross it without permission of the country enforcing the blockade. To do so constitutes an attack on that country.
So your opinion that the israelis attacked first is wrong, the flotilla violated the law. Secondly, the israelis followed the international law of the sea to the letter.
Look at the following
1. A maritime blockade is in effect off the coast of Gaza. Such blockade has been imposed, as Israel is currently in a state of armed conflict with the Hamas regime that controls Gaza, which has repeatedly bombed civilian targets in Israel with weapons that have been smuggled into Gaza via the sea.
2. Maritime blockades are a legitimate and recognized measure under international law that may be implemented as part of an armed conflict at sea.
3. A blockade may be imposed at sea, including in international waters, so long as it does not bar access to the ports and coasts of neutral states.
4. The naval manuals of several western countries, including the US and England recognize the maritime blockade as an effective naval measure and set forth the various criteria that make a blockade valid, including the requirement of give due notice of the existence of the blockade.
5. In this vein, it should be noted that Israel publicized the existence of the blockade and the precise coordinates of such by means of the accepted international professional maritime channels. Israel also provided appropriate notification to the affected governments and to the organizers of the Gaza protest flotilla. Moreover, in real time, the ships participating in the protest flotilla were warned repeatedly that a maritime blockade is in effect.
6. Here, it should be noted that under customary law, knowledge of the blockade may be presumed once a blockade has been declared and appropriate notification has been granted, as above.
7. Under international maritime law, when a maritime blockade is in effect, no boats can enter the blockaded area. That includes both civilian and enemy vessels.
8. A state may take action to enforce a blockade. Any vessel that violates or attempts to violate a maritime blockade may be captured or even attacked under international law. The US Commander's Handbook on the Law of Naval Operations sets forth that a vessel is considered to be in attempt to breach a blockade from the time the vessel leaves its port with the intention of evading the blockade.
9. Here we should note that the protesters indicated their clear intention to violate the blockade by means of written and oral statements. Moreover, the route of these vessels indicated their clear intention to violate the blockade in violation of international law.
10. Given the protesters explicit intention to violate the naval blockade, Israel exercised its right under international law to enforce the blockade. It should be noted that prior to undertaking enforcement measures, explicit warnings were relayed directly to the captains of the vessels, expressing Israel's intent to exercise its right to enforce the blockade.
11. Israel had attempted to take control of the vessels participating in the flotilla by peaceful means and in an orderly fashion in order to enforce the blockade. Given the large number of vessels participating in the flotilla, an operational decision was made to undertake measures to enforce the blockade a certain distance from the area of the blockade.
12. Israeli personnel attempting to enforce the blockade were met with violence by the protesters and acted in self defense to fend off such attacks.
You are absolutely correct.... if Israel acknowledges that they are in an INTERNATIONAL armed conflict.... as the rules of the sea require that there be a war (according London Declaration) or while San Remo refers to "the parties to an armed conflict at sea".... which opens quite a can of worms since Israel doesn't recognize Gaza as a state. Therefore to legitimize it as a conflict and not an internal struggle then they would have to recognize Gaza as a state. Even then it is debatable whether there blockade has legal standing since they are not armed parties at Sea as they are neighboring states in a NIAC.
Quote from: jerry wagner on June 04, 2010, 06:39:33 AM
You are absolutely correct.... if Israel acknowledges that they are in an INTERNATIONAL armed conflict.... as the rules of the sea require that there be a war (according London Declaration) or while San Remo refers to "the parties to an armed conflict at sea".... which opens quite a can of worms since Israel doesn't recognize Gaza as a state. Therefore to legitimize it as a conflict and not an internal struggle then they would have to recognize Gaza as a state. Even then it is debatable whether there blockade has legal standing since they are not armed parties at Sea as they are neighboring states in a NIAC.
I don't believe that it matters in international law and the law of the sea if the armed conflict is with a state or not. Piracy is not armed conflict with a state as well as terrorists are not a state yet we recognized them as a threat and are in a armed conflict.
The second the palestinians elected hamas as their government (terrorist government) that technically gave Israel a State (not necessarily the palestinians but Hamas) to which it could respond to within the international law. So now the blockaid is there still against hamas, to prevent it from using that area of ingress and egress to transport weapons and supplies to its terrorists operating in the territory.
IF israel was in violation of international law, then you would see more countries including allies of israel condemning it. The only ones raising a stink about it are the islamic nations and the UN.
Secondly Israel isn't in armed conflict with Gaza, its in armed Conflict with hamas which is a recognized government now.
Quote from: srkruzich on June 04, 2010, 07:02:50 AM
I don't believe that it matters in international law and the law of the sea if the armed conflict is with a state or not. Piracy is not armed conflict with a state as well as terrorists are not a state yet we recognized them as a threat and are in a armed conflict.
The second the palestinians elected hamas as their government (terrorist government) that technically gave Israel a State (not necessarily the palestinians but Hamas) to which it could respond to within the international law. So now the blockaid is there still against hamas, to prevent it from using that area of ingress and egress to transport weapons and supplies to its terrorists operating in the territory.
IF israel was in violation of international law, then you would see more countries including allies of israel condemning it. The only ones raising a stink about it are the islamic nations and the UN.
Secondly Israel isn't in armed conflict with Gaza, its in armed Conflict with hamas which is a recognized government now.
Believe its allies are raising a stink, but privately.
You know its amazing how people are so against israel, for being a country of its own, exercising its rights as a nation against its agressers, yet people don't care about iran or syria or other terrorist nations doing what they do.
it is clear that nations are against israel because they are Gods people, and their lands were given to them before the muslims were even though of.
And all throughout history, Israel has flourished and never been anihalated, and they have flourished under Gods hand.
I for one will always support Israel because to stand against them is to stand against God and only a fool would become Gods enemy.
I may be wrong, but didn't the captain of the one ship tell all the passengers to go back to their cabins and stay until things were sorted out? Since they refused the captain's order that has to breaking some law or other. I'm afraid the words "humanitarian aid" there don't mean the same as here. I think the real aid supplies would have been sent on, but they would have been searched for hidden weapons etc. I'm not even sure that most of the passengers on board knew that they were being sucked up into some thing other than what it was being portrayed to be. I wonder what a good search will turn up. "They protesteth too much."
SRK........
1. Saying something against Israels tactics and agressive attitudes does not mean one thinks they don't deserve their own country.
2. I don't think they are anymore God's people than anybody else is...so they get no special privileges in MY Book.
3. They think THEY are Gods chosen people....unless you are one of them you are just excess baggage bud. You don't get brownie points.
4. Supporting whatever somebody/countries do just because THEY say God thinks they are right is stupid.
5. Saying they did something wrong does not make me or anybody ELSE Gods enemy.
6. PERsonally...I speak out against Iran, Iraq, Syria, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. I have NO use for their barbaric religion, their "jihad"....their STONEAGE mentality.
7. Yes blockading ports is legal...closing borders to ALL traffic is legal.......we can ALL do it......it is a stonage tactic to make governments cave by punishing their people......humans have been doing it since there were humans.....being LEGAL does NOT make it right
I saw a report of the Israelis going thru cargo from the ships Diane....all they had found so far was medical, construction, electrical and water supplies just like what the people had said they were carrying. Haven't heard anything since and that was like two days ago.
Good!
God does not love murderers, and people who turn their backs on their religion. The Torah prohibits the jews from returning to Israel until the messiah comes.
Certainly, the Messiah has been here.
Quote from: Anmar on June 04, 2010, 09:01:48 AM
God does not love murderers, and people who turn their backs on their religion. The Torah prohibits the jews from returning to Israel until the messiah comes.
The messiah has come. and they are back in their lands. so if he hasn't returned and they are prohibited, then how is it that they are back in their land??
Quote from: srkruzich on June 04, 2010, 09:14:48 AM
The messiah has come. and they are back in their lands. so if he hasn't returned and they are prohibited, then how is it that they are back in their land??
um.........I was under the impression Jews do not agree that the messiah has come. They are on land they DECIDED was theirs. Israel was not a place in ancient history..it was a people, but dont let that one technicality get in the way.
No I am not Jewish...what I know I learned from books........I am not muslim...what I know I learned from being exposed to them as a college student and books.
Quote from: pamagain on June 04, 2010, 10:48:22 AM
um.........I was under the impression Jews do not agree that the messiah has come. They are on land they DECIDED was theirs. Israel was not a place in ancient history..it was a people, but dont let that one technicality get in the way.
No I am not Jewish...what I know I learned from books........I am not muslim...what I know I learned from being exposed to them as a college student and books.
God made a contract, or covenant to Abraham approximately 3500 years ago. He defined the lands specific borders and ti was given to the israelites. So the israelites did not decide that was theirs, it was given to them. Israel/israelites same people Doesn't matter about your technicality. Jews/Israelites/Israel. In fact God addresses Israel man times in the bible as a nation and people.
Jdg 6:15 And he said unto him, Oh my Lord, wherewith shall I save Israel? behold, my family [is] poor in Manasseh, and I [am] the least in my father's house.
1Ch 4:10 And Jabez called on the God of Israel, saying, Oh that thou wouldest bless me indeed, and enlarge my coast, and that thine hand might be with me, and that thou wouldest keep [me] from evil, that it may not grieve me! And God granted him that which he requested.
Psa 14:7 Oh that the salvation of Israel [were come] out of Zion! when the LORD bringeth back the captivity of his people, Jacob shall rejoice, [and] Israel shall be glad.
Psa 53:6 Oh that the salvation of Israel [were come] out of Zion! When God bringeth back the captivity of his people, Jacob shall rejoice, [and] Israel shall be glad.
Psa 81:13 Oh that my people had hearkened unto me, [and] Israel had walked in my ways!
Notice, that There is no such thing as a ISLAMIC nation that has claims to the land that God gave Israel. None whatsoever. Until 636 ad i think, there wasn't any such thing as a muslim.
The land has been occupied by enemies of God and israel has been in captivity as slaves many times, but each time Israel overthrew their captors and returned to their land. In fact right now, they have not reclaimed their rightful lands fully. But i do see it happening possibly in our lifetime espcecially with iraq changing politically.
The promise that is the basis of the term is contained in several verses of Genesis in the Torah. In
Genesis 12:1
The LORD had said to Abram, "Leave your country, your people and your father's household and go to the land I will show you."
and in Genesis 12:7:
The LORD appeared to Abram and said, "To your offspring [or seed] I will give this land."
Genesis 15:7
He also said to him, "I am the LORD, who brought you out of Ur of the Chaldeans to give you this land to take possession of it."
And in Genesis 15:18-21 the boundary of the promised land is clarified in terms of the territory of various ancient peoples, as follows:
" On that day the LORD made a covenant with Abram and said, "To your descendants I give this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the Euphrates - the land of the Kenites, Kenizzites, Kadmonites, Hittites, Perizzites, Rephaites, Amorites, Canaanites, Girgashites and Jebusites." "
The verse is said to describe what are known as "borders of the Land" (Gevulot Ha-aretz).[1] In Jewish tradition, these borders define the maximum extent of the land promised to the descendants of Abraham through his son Isaac and grandson Jacob.[2]
The promise was confirmed to Jacob at Genesis 28:12-15, though the borders are still vague and is in terms of "the land on which you are lying".
More precise geographical borders are given in Exodus 23:31 which describes borders as marked by the Red Sea, the "Sea of the Philistines" i.e the Mediterranean, and the "River," (the Euphrates) the traditional furthest extent of the Kingdom of Israel under David.[3][4]
Around here all Jews go to Israel at least once in their lifetimes, usually on tours which stop at every Falafel stand in the country. Boy do they get sick of it! By the way, did you know that Solomon had seven hundred wives and 300 porcupines?
(http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad256/waldoegray/26612.jpg)
Ha. Isn't that funny?
forget the porcupines, 900 wives!??? :O :O the man was nuts!
SRK................. yeah....thanks for the history/religion lecture...........:P
I have found it is possible for anybody to justify/explain anything they want to espouse using scripture verses........Trust me I have tested this theory many times...........LOL
Just theoretically SRK........if I was to have some people who had been slaves for like a couple thousand years and they followed me and "knew" God talked to me and told me what to do, that God had made a covenant with me, had promised to show me "our" land and I just showed up on your place and said Sorry dude.....I was goin down the road lookin for this place God told me was mine and he was going to show it to me and I looked out the window and saw this place.....THIS is the place GOD told me was mine so pack your s*&^ and git........would you? or would you say I was delusional? Would you BELIEVE......TODAY......that God talked to me and told me that? or are you one of those people that thinks God hasn't said anything new since they agreed on what to put in the Bible and what to leave out? just theoretically.......................hmm? It's true because it's from a few thousand years ago and really doesn't affect you? What if it happened to YOU......TODAY........?
Quote from: pamagain on June 04, 2010, 05:36:00 PM
Just theoretically SRK........if I was to have some people who had been slaves for like a couple thousand years and they followed me and "knew" God talked to me and told me what to do, that God had made a covenant with me, had promised to show me "our" land and I just showed up on your place and said Sorry dude.....I was goin down the road lookin for this place God told me was mine and he was going to show it to me and I looked out the window and saw this place.....THIS is the place GOD told me was mine so pack your s*&^ and git........would you? or would you say I was delusional? Would you BELIEVE......TODAY......that God talked to me and told me that? or are you one of those people that thinks God hasn't said anything new since they agreed on what to put in the Bible and what to leave out? just theoretically.......................hmm? It's true because it's from a few thousand years ago and really doesn't affect you? What if it happened to YOU......TODAY........?
Who said God doens't talk to people?? Proof of that is?? He talks to me every day.
I swear trying to make a point on here could give a person an aneurism.......................
NOBODY said God doesn't talk to anybody today..............try reading what I said again and if it still doesn't click just forget it.................
but just because I'm feelin magnanimous.........my POINT is if some guy showed up and told me I had to move, that God had told him MY land was really his I (as in me myself) would tell him to take it on down the road and try it on some dumbass that is gonna fall for it which is what I would've told ABRAHAM when HE showed up.
I believe God talks to us everyday.....I DON'T believe everything somebody SAYS God told them. If He/She tells ME then maybe I'll listen to you....until then.........
Quote from: pamagain on June 04, 2010, 07:21:22 PM
I
but just because I'm feelin magnanimous.........my POINT is if some guy showed up and told me I had to move, that God had told him MY land was really his I (as in me myself) would tell him to take it on down the road and try it on some dumbass that is gonna fall for it which is what I would've told ABRAHAM when HE showed up.
Well abraham didnt go in and tell everyone to move. It was joshua that went in and claimed the land. And the land was given to them by God, all they had to do was take it. And they did and held the land. Abraham came out of Ur which was included in the boundaries of israel after joshua conquered the land with his army.
So even if you had resided in the land at the time of joshua, you wouldn't have had a choice.
After reading these following articles and watching the video's... anyone who still believes that Israel is at fault.. HAS TO BE HAMAS and ISLAMIC TERRORISM SYMPATHIZERS, PERIOD! ...WarphHamas/IHH Are Behind the "Gaza Freedom Flotilla?"Without minimizing the suffering and loss of the Gaza population, it is also necessary to point out a few facts that might dim the enthusiasm of supporters of the fleet of ships sailing to Gaza with "humanitarian supplies," at least among decent people.
In a typical week, 15,000 tons of Israeli humanitarian aid supplies enter Gaza. Truckloads of meat, poultry, fish, dairy products, fruits, vegetables, milk powder, baby food, wheat and other supplies arrive in Gaza daily. Building materials are also shipped in, when monitored by International organizations so that it is not commandeered by Hamas for the fortification of bunkers. That is, in a week, Israel sends more aid to Gaza than is contained in the 10,000 tons of the so-called humanitarian aid flotilla.
SOURCE:
The ships sailing from Turkey to Gaza are sponsored by the Turkish organization for Human Rights, Liberties, and Humanitarian Relief (IHH). What does the nature of this group tell us about the "humanitarian" purpose of the voyage? A recent Israeli report pointed out that the launching of the flotilla was attended by Hamas personnel and other extremists, but we already know that Hamas and IHH work closely together.
http://dover.idf.il/IDF/English/News/today/10/06/0402.htm
If you like the flotilla, chances are you think Hamas is an innocuous humanitarian group too. More interesting, perhaps, are the previous connections of IHH, revealed by foreign sources.
(I have layed out pretty well in other articles just what and who IHH is comprised of.... now What and Who is Hamas... Warph) The Hamas Charter: http://www.mideastweb.org/hamas.htm
In 2006, a Danish study by Evan F. Kohlmann reported: http://www.diis.dk/graphics/Publications/WP2006/DIIS%20WP%202006-7.web.pdf
Turkish authorities began their own domestic criminal investigation of IHH as early as December 1997, when sources revealed that leaders of IHH were purchasing automatic weapons from other regional Islamic militant groups.43 IHH's bureau in Istanbul was thoroughly searched, and its local officers were arrested. Security forces uncovered an array of disturbing items, including firearms, explosives, bomb-making instructions, and a "jihad flag." After analyzing seized IHH documents, Turkish authorities concluded that "detained members of IHH were going to fight in Afghanistan, Bosnia, and Chechnya."44
According to a French intelligence report: the terrorist infiltration of IHH extended to its most senior ranks. The report, written by famed counterterrorism magistrate Jean-Louis Bruguiere, revealed that IHH President Bulent Yildrim had directly conspired in the mid-1990s to "recruit veteran soldiers in anticipation of the coming holy war [jihad]. In particular, some men were sent into war zones in Muslim countries in order to acquire combat experience."45
Furthermore, in the hopes of "obtaining political support from these countries, financial aid was transferred [on behalf of IHH], as well as caches of firearms, knives, and pre-fabricated explosives."46 An examination of IHH's phone records in Istanbul showed repeated telephone calls in 1996 to an Al-Qaida guesthouse in Milan and various Algerian terrorist operatives active elsewhere in Europe – including the notorious Abu el-Ma`ali, who has been subsequently termed by U.S. officials as a "junior Osama Bin Laden."47
At a USA trial, Brugiere testified: http://www.investigativeproject.org/documents/case_docs/312.pdf#page=17
The IHH is an NGO, but it was kind of a type of cover-up... in order to obtain forged documents and also to obtain different forms of infiltration for Mujahideen in combat. And also to go and gather[recruit] these Mujahideens. And finally, one of the last responsibilities that they had was also to be implicated or involved in weapons trafficking.48
According to the Danish report, IHH was later involved in supplying arms to Sunni terrorists in Iraq. More recently, they have developed close relations with Hamas and Hezbollah. Is it any wonder that Israel would not allow an organization that smuggles arms to Al Qaeda to send an uninspected cargo of "humanitarian aid" to Gaza? These are the sort of "humanitarians" who would do less harm as vegetarians.
Still looking for the 'Rioters' that are referred to in the film. Didn't see anyone rioting----?
Quote from: jarhead on June 03, 2010, 07:46:51 PM
Anmar,I'm getting off track here but a few months back before you dropped off the radar you said on the forum that you had been to basic training (or boot camp) and another forum member asked where you had went to boot camp at. You departed the forum world before you gave an answer but I'd still like to hear where you went to basic training and what branch of service you were in.
Hell, JarHead... I'm thinking the guy started his basic training with Hamas and washed out in the second week. I'm pretty sure they don't have "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" in that numb-nut army. He was probably lucky to get out with his life intact.
Quote from: Anmar on June 04, 2010, 01:02:16 AM
About Basic, that info is classified.
Classified, my ass.... LOL... CLASSIFIED, MY ASS! ...btw, Tebbi, the nice man in the KC baseball cap from India who shoots in the low 70s and owns five 7-11, wanted to know that somewhere someone said... he thinks on this forum... that you worked the late shift at 7-11? Maybe it was one of the "Smoke Shops" that's popping up all over the place. He couldn't remember which one it was. Is that true or is he mistaken?
Who was it that attacked first again??
Isreal was enforcing a legal blockade. Hell, they even offered to transfer some of the cargo to gaza, but hamas refused. If all that ship was carrying was humanitarian aid then they should have had no problem with Isreal searching the ship. If the Isrealis were intent on killing folks then why was the only lethal weapon they carried a sidearm?
Quote from: Anmar on June 04, 2010, 01:02:16 AM
About Basic, that info is classified.
No its not. Most Basic Training Posts are open to the public. Absouletly no training that you recieve in Basic is Classified. In order to recieve Classified, Eyes Only, or Top Secert information or training a Soldier must first be given clearence. Thats not going to happen until after a Soldier passes Basic. Try another one, wannabe.
Ah good ol warph, I was wondering when your snide personal attacks would start. I've not been back for 3 full days yet before the poisonous personality and hatred begins dripping from the cesspool of your aging, dirty heart. Just like all of our american zionists, your loyalties are clear. Just like Rhambo, you are an Israeli first, American second. Did you know that Rhambo is an Israeli citizen and former member of the Israeli army? While the gulf of mexico is being defiled by BP, Rhambo was in Israel reporting to the Israeli government.
Don't be surprised by the vids, The Israeli soldiers stole every little bit of personal property on those boats. Even the video tapes. What you are seeing are bits and peices of footage shot by reporters on the flotilla that have been edited by the Israeli army and released for their PR campaign. Did you know that Israel spends hundreds of millions of dollars in the US on lobbying and PR? If they are such great people, why do they need to try to buy the opinion of the American people and our government? Why do they need to spy on us?
Its funny that you label anyone who opposes ISrael has a Hamas sympathizer. A very large percentage of Israeli's have spoken out against the military's actions. In europe, even many Zionists and non-zionist jews are speaking out. Do you think they support Hamas?
I wonder if you will ever talk about the terrorism committed by the early zionists. Will you ever explain to us how the state of Israel was founded on terrorism? It's a lot nicer talking to you than that other guy. Can you believe he tried to use international law to justify Israel's actions? Talk about Irony..... Israel is in violation of more international laws than any other country. In fact, Several of their ministers are wanted in Europe for war crimes. Lets talk about White phospherous, depleted uranium, occupation, annexation, settlements, assasinations, checkpoints (and pregnant women dying at them) and a really big wall built on palestinian land. How about all the treaties that Israel has agreed to and then broken?
As for the biblical thing, Please review revelation 7. And remember that jews do not accept Jesus as the Messiah. Here's an interesting fun fact. As any student of the bible knows, the anti-christ will come before Jesus' return. the Anti-christ will have a way with words, preform miracles, yadda yadda, in short, he will appear to be the Messiah to the untrained eye. Christians, already knowing that Jesus was the first coming of the messiah, will be able to recognize that this anti-christ is the not the messiah. Others, who don't believe that Jesus was the messiah, will still be waiting, and when this dude comes along, well, you get the picture. It all seems a little silly though, but hey, thats what the bible says.
Quote from: Anmar on June 04, 2010, 09:35:31 PM
Ah good ol warph, I was wondering when your snide personal attacks would start. I've not been back for 3 full days yet before the poisonous personality and hatred begins dripping from the cesspool of your aging, dirty heart.
And speaking of snide personal attacks...
Quote from: Anmar on June 04, 2010, 09:35:31 PM
Just like all of our american zionists, your loyalties are clear. Just like Rhambo, you are an Israeli first, American second.
So let me get this straight...it is okay for Hamas, muslims, and whoever else to stand for their religious beliefs even though they are not in the best interest of America? But it is not okay for Christians that support Isreal to stand for theirs?
Quote from: Anmar on June 04, 2010, 09:35:31 PM
As for the biblical thing, Please review revelation 7. And remember that jews do not accept Jesus as the Messiah. Here's an interesting fun fact. As any student of the bible knows, the anti-christ will come before Jesus' return. the Anti-christ will have a way with words, preform miracles, yadda yadda, in short, he will appear to be the Messiah to the untrained eye. Christians, already knowing that Jesus was the first coming of the messiah, will be able to recognize that this anti-christ is the not the messiah. Others, who don't believe that Jesus was the messiah, will still be waiting, and when this dude comes along, well, you get the picture. It all seems a little silly though, but hey, thats what the bible says.
IF you review Revelations you will find that the jews will not recieve this false messiah, and their eyes will be opened to the fact that he had already come. The gentiles will fall for this false messiah at this point.
Hell, JarHead... I'm thinking the guy started his basic training with Hamas and washed out in the second week. I'm pretty sure they don't have "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" in that numb-nut army. He was probably lucky to get out with his life intact.
WARPH my friend. You are probably right. Back to digging my bunker deeper !!!
Good grief, this is exactly why the middle east will never have true peace. Nobody will give an inch! Hatfields and McCoys thousands of years old and all tribal at that. If you all go shoot something will you feel better?
Quote from: Diane Amberg on June 05, 2010, 02:27:05 PM
Good grief, this is exactly why the middle east will never have true peace. Nobody will give an inch! Hatfields and McCoys thousands of years old and all tribal at that. If you all go shoot something will you feel better?
The day peace is achieved in the Middle East, this world will be 7 years or less from armageddon. The peace will not be real. nothing but deception for a entire planet.
Carving Up Jerusalem
When I first heard Joe Biden going ballistic over Israel's plans to build housing in Jerusalem, I thought I must be dreaming. But when Secretary of State Clinton voiced her own outrage, insisting that Israel's making such an announcement while our vice president was in Israel, was an insult not only to Biden, but to the United States, I realized that not even in those dreams where I'm tall, good-looking and know how to play the piano, have I been so out of touch with reality. After all, these were the same two people who have been so careful not to insult Iran or any of the other gangster states in Africa or the Middle East, lowering the boom on an ally for doing something as benign as building housing for its citizens. Which, it seems to me, isn't quite as bad as developing a nuclear bomb while vowing to annihilate one of its neighbors.
It took New York's Daniel Greenfield to bring some pertinent facts to light, for which I am in his debt.
***In 1990, it seems that Sen. Biden co-sponsored a resolution which resolved that Congress acknowledge that Jerusalem is and should remain the capital of Israel and remain an undivided city.
***In 1992, Biden also co-sponsored Senate Consecutive Resolution 113, which resolved that Congress congratulates the people of Israel on the 25th anniversary of the reunification of that historic city; that Congress believes that Jerusalem must remain an undivided city; and called upon the President and the Secretary of State to issue an unequivocal statement in support of those principles.
http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/21563
***In 1995, Biden co-sponsored, along with such colleagues as John McCain, Harry Reid, John Kerry, Joe Lieberman and Ted Kennedy, Senate 1322, stating that Jerusalem should remain an undivided city and should be recognized as the capital of Israel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_Embassy_Act
As late as 2001, Joe Biden said, "Why is it that the one ally we have in that part of the world is the one that we feel we have the right to publicly chastise? We would not do that with any other friend. Such criticism emboldens those in the Middle East and around the world who still harbor as their sacred goal the elimination of Israel. It's not for you to tell them, nor for me, what is in their best interest."
What a shame that V.P. Joe Biden never had the opportunity to meet and speak to Senator Joe Biden.
For her part, Hillary Clinton, in 2007, issued a statement claiming that she believed that "Israel's right to exist safely as a Jewish state, with defensible borders and an undivided Jerusalem as its capital, secure from violence and terrorism, must never be questioned."
http://dfi.10point10.com/files/HillaryonIsrael.pdf
http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2010/03/138722.htm
http://www.thecuttingedgenews.com/index.phparticle=11379&pageid=16&pagename=Opinion
What a shame that Secretary of State Hillary Clinton never had the opportunity to meet and speak to Senator Hillary Clinton.
I suppose one could say that's just Joe being Joe and Hillary being Hillary, just liberals trolling for Jewish votes and campaign contributions. Now that they're no longer running for office, perhaps they no longer feel compelled to lie about their true feelings.
For his part, Barack Obama, in 2008, gave a campaign speech in which he said, "Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided."
http://www.nysun.com/national/obama-promises-undivided-jerusalem-as-israeli/79363/
http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2008/06/post_58.html
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas/2008/06/200861502339267561.html
Perhaps his teleprompter malfunctioned on that occasion, because the very next day, he explained that he actually was in favor of dividing Jerusalem, but he didn't want barbed wire to be used to divide it.
If one is to draw any insights from all this, it might be that liberal senators only tell you the truth when they're no longer running for office, and that Barack Obama, who seems to be okay with nukes in the hands of Muslims, draws a line in the sand when it comes to barbed wire.
.....Burt Prelutsky
The Full Measure of Joe Biden's Hypocrisy on Jerusalem Not that long ago, Joseph Robinette Biden was supposedly gravely insulted by Israel announcing that potential housing to be built in Jerusalem had passed one stage of a multi-stage approval process. Biden was so insulted by this dastardly act that he stood up the Prime Minister of Israel for 90 minutes and that he and various Obama Administration officials proceeded to lambaste Israel for "insulting" Biden.
Hillary Clinton proclaimed; "it was not only an insult to Biden, but an insult to the United States." "There was an affront, it was an insult", huffed Senior Obama advisor David Axelrod. Hundreds of newspapers immediately penned editorials denouncing Israel's grave insult. The essence of it was that Israel had insulted Biden by laying claim to Jerusalem during his visit.
There's just one problem with this. In 1995 Biden himself served as a co-sponsor of S. 1322, known as the Jerusalem Embassy Act. (Additional Senate co-sponsors included such obscure legislators as John McCain, Ted Kennedy, Harry Reid, Jesse Helms, John Kerry, Joseph Lieberman, Strom Thurmond and Bob Dole.) Let's look at the text of the Jerusalem Embassy Act now:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s104-1322
(a) STATEMENT OF THE POLICY OF THE UNITED STATES-
(1) Jerusalem should remain an undivided city in which the rights of every ethnic and religious group are protected;
(2) Jerusalem should be recognized as the capital of the State of Israel; So if we believe the White House, in 1995 Senator Biden co-sponsored a bill in which he laid out a Statement of the Policy of the United States as that of an "Undivided Jerusalem" that is the undivided capital of the State of Israel. In 2010 that same Biden however was gravely insulted by a potential Israeli housing project in Jerusalem.
But surely that was an accident. After all Biden might not have known what resolution he was actually co-sponsoring. Except that in 1992 Biden also served as co-sponsor of Senate Consecutive Resolution 113. It states that:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d102:SC00113:@@@PNow, therefore, be it Resolved by the Senate (the House of Representatives concurring), That the Congress--
(1) congratulates the residents of Jerusalem and the people of Israel on the twenty-fifth anniversary of the reunification of that historic city;
(2) strongly believes that Jerusalem must remain an undivided city in which the rights of every ethnic and religious group are protected as they have been by Israel during the past twenty-five years; and
(3) calls upon the President and the Secretary of State to issue an unequivocal statement in support of these principles.
So in 1992, Biden "strongly believed" that Jerusalem should be Israel's undivided capitol and even wanted the President to issue an "unequivocal statement" in support of that. Fast forward a bit and Biden is supposedly gravely insulted because Israel believes unequivocally that Jerusalem is its undivided capital.Now certainly Senator Biden twice co-sponsored resolutions and bills that proclaimed Jerusalem to be Israel's undivided capital. But he couldn't for the love of god have done it three times? Or could he have.
In 1990 Senator Joseph Robinette Biden co-sponsored Senate Concurrent Resolution 106 which stated that: Whereas ambiguous statements by the Government of the United States concerning the right of Jews to live in all parts of Jerusalem raise concerns in Israel that Jerusalem might one day be redivided and access to religious sites in Jerusalem denied to Israeli citizens; and
Whereas such concerns inhibit and complicate the search for a lasting peace in the region: Now, therefore, be it
Resolved by the Senate (the House of Representatives concurring), That the Congress--
(1) acknowledges that Jerusalem is and should remain the capital of the State of Israel;
(2) strongly believes that Jerusalem must remain an undivided city in which the rights of every ethnic religious group are protected; and
(3) calls upon all parties involved in the search for peace to maintain their strong efforts to bring about negotiations between Israel and Palestinian representatives.Now just so we're keeping track, Biden co-sponsored three Senate resolution, all three of which insisted that Jerusalem should remain Israel's undivided capital. One of which insisted that it was vital for the peace process that Jerusalem should be affirmed by US policy as Israel's undivided capital.
So naturally, like any good politician, he was insulted by Israel taking him at his word. To argue that Biden was gravely insulted by Israel, is to argue that he was insulted by the policies he himself supported.
Not just passively supported, but co-sponsored in three Senate resolutions which repeatedly stated that these were meant to be the policy of the United States.
But of course the hypocrisy train doesn't just stop at Joe Biden Station.
Hillary Clinton who claimed that Israeli housing "was not only an insult to Biden, but an insult to the United States", in 2007 (barely 2 and a half years ago) issued a paper stating:
"Hillary Clinton believes that Israel's right to exist in safety as a Jewish state, with defensible borders and an undivided Jerusalem as its capital, secure from violence and terrorism, must never be questioned." http://www.nysun.com/national/clinton-reminds-voters-of-commitment-to-israel/62739/
And barely 2.5 years later, Hillary Clinton is vocally doing the questioning. And the woman who not that long ago said that an "Undivided Jerusalem" must never be questioned, was pretending that Israel approving housing in Jerusalem was a grave insult to the United States.
The question must then be asked, if Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton supported an undivided Jerusalem and if Israeli housing projects in Jerusalem are an insult to the United States-- weren't Hillary and Joe insulting the United States. Or were they just insulting the Jewish voters who believed their empty promises? http://israelinsider.ning.com/profiles/blogs/zoa-demands-apology-from
But the "insults" don't stop there. In 2008 Obama gave a speech in which he said, "Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided."
To be fair to Obama, he didn't waste too much time divorcing himself from the statement he had just made. It actually took him only a day to explain that he actually supported dividing Jerusalem, he just didn't want it divided by barbed wire. No, seriously. http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/07/13/zakaria.obama/
You know, the truth is that this was an example where we had some poor phrasing in the speech. And we immediately tried to correct the interpretation that was given. The point we were simply making was, is that we don't want barbed wire running through Jerusalem, similar to the way it was prior to the '67 war, that it is possible for us to create a Jerusalem that is cohesive and coherent.... BHObama
After a prolonged study by experts in semantics, it turns out that Obama felt that "Undivided Jerusalem" was subject to all sorts of misinterpretations, such as it being undivided, when he actually meant that it should be cohesive and coherent. Unlike Obama himself. Since no one knows what in the world "cohesive and coherent" might mean as applied to a city, that made it a safe statement to make.
So to sum up, Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton and even Obama were enthusiastic supporters of an "Undivided Jerusalem" not too long ago, but in the spring of 2010 they were gravely insulted because Israel moved housing in Jerusalem to be built on deserted land through one stage of a multi-stage approvals process while Biden happened to be in the country.
Now this dog just won't hunt. Either an "Undivided Jerusalem" is a grave insult to the United States and completely destructive of the peace process... in which case Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton and Obama have all insulted the United States and are destructive of the peace process... or they are completely shameless liars and hypocrites. Just to close off this sad chapter with one more stop for the Hypocrisy Express at Joe Biden Station, let's tune in to Joe Biden circa 2001: "Why is it that the one ally we have in that part of the world [Israel], that we have the right to publicly chastise them? We would not do that with any other friend ... As much as the Middle East is always on our minds, the best thing we can do is keep it off the US and world press." He also said that such criticism "emboldens those in the Middle East and around the world who still harbor as their sacred goal the elimination of Israel ... It is not for you to tell them [Israel], nor for me, what is in their best interests. We should give them the right to determine what chances they will take"Fast forward to 2010 where under the guidance of Barack Hussein Obama, Biden staged a very loud and public bashing of Israel. One is reminded of the question, how can you tell when a politician is lying? Easy, his lips are moving......Daniel Greenfield[/color]
Good, I have a lot of things to respond to and educate you all about.
Lets start with the idea that people in the holy land have been fighting for thousands of years. While there certainly have been periods of conflict, There have also been relatively long peaceful periods. We all know the history of the romans and the eventual breakup for the roman empire. Jerusalem became part of the Byzantine empire and although the empire was christian, Jews were still persecuted and expulsed from the holy land. Early in the 7th century, when the city was attacked by Persians, the jews helped the Sassanids slaughter 90,000 christians. The city was later recaptured by Heraclius in the name of the Byzantines.
In the 7th century, Caliph Umar from the islamic empire conqured jerusalem in a relatively bloodless siege. For over 400 years, the people lived in peaceful coexistance. in 1099, europe sent crusaders to the holy land, and once again war came to the area. Eventually Salahadin defeated Richard the lion heart and then for the next 600 years, another long period of peace took hold, ending with the outbreak of WW1. European jews begun to come to palestine despite the protests of Arabs of all faiths, muslims, christians, and even jews.
You may notice a trend. When the area is ruled by arabs, they get along fine. When europeans come in and try to take control, there's a problem. You'd think a lesson would have been learned?
Hmmm what next. It was said
QuoteSo let me get this straight...it is okay for Hamas, muslims, and whoever else to stand for their religious beliefs even though they are not in the best interest of America? But it is not okay for Christians that support Isreal to stand for theirs?
I think muslims should stand up for muslims, palestinians should stand up for palestinians, israelis for israelis, christians for christians and americans for americans. The problem I have with people like you Varmit is that you and others would sell out your country and your christian brothers because you bought into zionist propaganda. Let me explain.
This conflict isn't jews vs muslims, it's not israelis vs muslims. What we have are Zionists vs Palestinians. Labels are important. Our media most often portrays palestinians as a bunch of wild eyed muslims running around plotting to destroy the world. What they don't tell you is that many palestinians are christian too. I've said this on these forums before, but I guess it didn't penetrate the wall of propaganda that warph likes to post. Recently, the pope put out a working paper on christians in the holy land, I'll give you some excerpts from an article...
QuoteThe 46-page document said input from clerics in the region blamed the Israeli occupation of Palestinian territories for inhibiting freedom of movement, the economy and religious life, alleging that access to holy places is dependent on military permission that is sometimes denied on security grounds.
It also complained that some Christian fundamentalists use biblical texts to justify Israel's occupation "making the position of Christian Arabs an even more sensitive issue."
so according to the pope, christian fundamentalists who make the argument that Israeli's have the right to occupy the holy land are putting the christian arabs in a bad position. There are 17 million of them by the way.
Now, about selling out your country.... We've actually had this discussion before, and I don't recall exactly what you said varmit, but I think I remember you saying that your christian beliefs were more important that being a patriot. Where does that fall in line with the whole "our nation was founded on christian principals" argument? Our nations principals are freedom, justice, equality of men, and the right to govern our own affairs. We should strive to be a beacon to the world, expounding those principals, right? Wasn't that part of the Bush doctrine? In this conflict, which party is struggling to obtain those things? Which party is preventing the other from attaining freedom? Ah yes, that would be the Israelis, trampling on our principals... Not only have they ruined the palestinians right to self governance, but they have tainted our own political system by spending hundreds of millions of dollars in lobbying efforts and infiltrating congressional offices.
QuoteAs Morris Amitay, a former head of AIPAC, once admitted, 'there are a lot of guys at the working level up here' – on Capitol Hill – 'who happen to be Jewish, who are willing ... to look at certain issues in terms of their Jewishness ... These are all guys who are in a position to make the decision in these areas for those senators ... You can get an awful lot done just at the staff level.'
Interesting stuff.
If you have time, you should read this article.
http://mideast.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/03/14/the_petraeus_briefing_biden_s_embarrassment_is_not_the_whole_story
http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/capitol/petraeus_and_israel_KtqwlgoulH7DstKmpOBedO
Gen Petraeus recently testified before congress. He said that our relationship with Israel is a strategic disadvantage for the US. Too often, we are putting Israel's interests ahead of our own.
Then, there is this paper written by a couple of jewish guys over at Harvard.
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n06/john-mearsheimer/the-israel-lobby
I'll just quote some important parts for those who don't have time to read it.
QuoteOther special-interest groups have managed to skew foreign policy, but no lobby has managed to divert it as far from what the national interest would suggest, while simultaneously convincing Americans that US interests and those of the other country – in this case, Israel – are essentially identical.
Quotethe Bush administration's ambition to transform the Middle East is at least partly aimed at improving Israel's strategic situation.
QuoteThe first Gulf War revealed the extent to which Israel was becoming a strategic burden. The US could not use Israeli bases without rupturing the anti-Iraq coalition, and had to divert resources (e.g. Patriot missile batteries) to prevent Tel Aviv doing anything that might harm the alliance against Saddam Hussein. History repeated itself in 2003: although Israel was eager for the US to attack Iraq, Bush could not ask it to help without triggering Arab opposition. So Israel stayed on the sidelines once again.
QuoteMore important, saying that Israel and the US are united by a shared terrorist threat has the causal relationship backwards: the US has a terrorism problem in good part because it is so closely allied with Israel, not the other way around. Support for Israel is not the only source of anti-American terrorism, but it is an important one, and it makes winning the war on terror more difficult. There is no question that many al-Qaida leaders, including Osama bin Laden, are motivated by Israel's presence in Jerusalem and the plight of the Palestinians. Unconditional support for Israel makes it easier for extremists to rally popular support and to attract recruits.
Finally, I know that someone is going to jump in here and call me an anti-semite or anti-jew. I am not. I believe in freedom and justice for all people. Anyone who attempts to deny freedom and justice to any other group of people is a criminal in my eyes. Those are the values that this country is built on. This is not an issue of judaism, there are Jews on both sides of the issue. The last article I'd like to link is the response of a jewish group to the Gaza flotilla. Warph would call these people terrorists, but I think they are couragous people who stand up for the truth in the face of hardship.
http://fastforgaza.net/node/146
QuoteAs rabbis, we believe all human beings are our kin. We cannot abide the suffering inflicted upon the people of Gaza.
We lift up our voices and say: Unlock the fetters of oppression. Untie the cords of the yoke. Open the gates.
June 4, 2010 - By now virtually the whole world has heard about the debacle of the "Gaza Freedom Flotilla." And virtually the whole world has condemned Israel for it. On May 31 Israeli naval forces stopped a group of six ships trying to break the blockade of Gaza . Unfortunately there was loss of life; several activists aboard the main ship, the Mavi Marmara, died, and several Israeli soldiers were wounded, some of them seriously. Around the world Israel has been demonized for its act of "piracy," attacking a ship delivering "humanitarian" aid to suffering people and whose mission was "freedom." When the situation is defined in these terms, it's hard not to feel deep hatred for Israel . But we need to bear two things in mind:
1. The facts do not support this portrayal.
2. The facts hardly matter anymore.
Let's take each point in turn. The Facts Do Not Support the Popular PortrayalThe "Freedom Flotilla" billed itself as a nonviolent, peaceful mission to help the starving people of Gaza . The truth is that the mission was not nonviolent, it was not peaceful, and the people of Gaza are not starving. The "nonviolent" protesters were not nonviolent. Video exists showing that those on board had prepared metal rods and knives, slingshots, and broken bottles to attack the Israelis. Not generally reported but noteworthy are spent bullet cartridges found on the Mavi Marmara that were not of any caliber used by Israeli commandos, some of whom did suffer gunshot wounds. Also found were propaganda photos of protesters who were supposedly injured. Evidence that these photos were shot during daylight showed they were prepared hours before the operation, which took place at night. The "nonviolent" nature of the flotilla is a myth, though a well-staged one.
The Israelis did carry side arms, but were under orders not to use them unless their lives were in danger. At first they tried using nonlethal methods to break up the attack. They had paintball guns to disperse the crowds, but those were not sufficient to stave off the threat. Video exists showing Mavi Marmara protesters attacking Israeli soldiers, beating them with metal pipes and chairs, and throwing one Israeli soldier over the railing to a deck below. The soldier suffered a serious wound to the head. A humanitarian "crisis"?Now let's look at the assumption that these protesters were trying to relieve a "humanitarian crisis" in Gaza . The reason for the blockade is simple. It is not to impose suffering on the Palestinian people. Hamas has been importing material to manufacture weapons and an infrastructure of bunkers it has used to attack Israeli citizens inside Israel . Israel 's goal is to keep out those materials while allowing genuine humanitarian aid to enter.
Therefore Israel offered to dock the Mavi Marmara at Ashdod and offload the cargo there, then transfer all verified humanitarian supplies to Gaza - a reasonable compromise. The protesters refused. A peaceful move like that would have undermined the purpose of their mission and cost them their moment of drama.
The plain fact is that Israel is not starving Gaza and is not holding up humanitarian aid. Israel maintains an open corridor for the delivery of food and humanitarian supplies to Gaza by recognized groups such as the UN and Red Cross. Every week Israel arranges the delivery of 15,000 tons of supplies on hundreds of trucks - more than the 10,000 tons carried on the flotilla.
These goods include not only food but building supplies. Imports of cement and iron must be controlled because Hamas uses them to cast bunkers and rockets for attacking Israeli cities. Nevertheless, tons of iron and cement are regularly allowed into Gaza under carefully monitored safeguards ensuring they will not go to Hamas for military purposes.
Gazans are suffering not because Israel prohibits aid from getting through to them - it doesn't - but because Hamas steals a lot of that aid. Last year the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) had to suspend humanitarian aid to Gaza because Hamas was stealing it. Specifically, Hamas seized truckloads of rice and flour and confiscated by force of arms thousands of blankets and food parcels intended for the poor.
In spite of this theft by Hamas, ample goods are reaching the people of Gaza . This is true not only because Israel allows these goods to enter legally, but also because of a thriving economy in items smuggled through tunnels across the Egyptian border. According to a very recent report in the Financial Times of London, "Shops all over Gaza are bursting with goods" from this literally underground economy. In fact many of these goods have become so abundant that merchants are complaining about falling prices.
"Everything I demand, I can get," says Abu Amar al-Kahlout, who sells household goods out of a warehouse big enough to accommodate a passenger jet. (Buck, 2010)
And now, irony of ironies: After so much concern about a humanitarian crisis, Hamas is refusing to allow into Gaza the 21 truckloads of goods from the flotilla, which were safely offloaded at Ashdod . Hamas says it wants all flotilla passengers released first.
Huh?
First, Israel is in process of releasing the detainees. Second, and more to the point, if Hamas has a gripe with Israel , why hold the Palestinian people hostage? If the humanitarian "crisis" is really so acute, how can Hamas possibly excuse withholding these vital supplies from the people simply because it wants to punish Israel?
If a humanitarian crisis really does exist in Gaza , many aren't feeling it. But if a humanitarian mission is truly needed, it should be targeted at Hamas.
Who were the flotilla organizers?So just who are these "Freedom Flotilla humanitarians" ? Two principal groups are involved, the Turkish Insani Yardim Vakfi (IHH), and the Free Gaza Movement (FGM).
The IHH is a Turkish Islamic NGO and owner-operator of three of the ships, including the Mavi Marmara. A report by the Danish Institute for International Studies identifies the IHH as a "charitable front group" supporting terrorist groups such as Al Qaeda and the Sunni insurgents in Iraq . An investigation by Turkish Authorities (before Turkey 's current Islamist government took power) found even more: that the IHH had procured firearms, explosives, and bomb-making instructions and was sending jihadists to fight in Afghanistan , Bosnia , and Chechnya (Kohlmann, 2006).
A French intelligence report (citation in Kohlmann, 2006) found that the IHH was recruiting soldiers for a coming "holy war" and sending them to war zones in Muslim countries to get combat experience (see Isseroff, 2010 for further details).
The true intentions of this supposed mission of "peace" became evident as the participants shouted this chilling battle cry, on footage taken aboard the flotilla just before its departure:
"Remember Khaybar, Khaybar, O Jews! The army of Muhammad will return!" Khaybar is the name of the last Jewish village destroyed by Muhammad in 628, marking the beginning of the end of any Jewish presence in Arabia . It has become a rallying cry for Islamic extremists, threatening death to Jews throughout history. You probably did not see this footage if you live in the West, but it was broadcast on Al-Jazeera.
(Watching it I couldn't help thinking of Stevenson's Treasure Island, in which once safely on board the "nice fellows" recruited for the treasure hunt raised the Jolly Roger and began singing their pirate songs. Only this time the targets of the deception were not those on board but the public at large.)
The clip ends with one woman passenger proudly proclaiming: "Right now we face one of two happy endings: either martyrdom or reaching Gaza ."
It looks like they got what they wanted.
The other group involved with the flotilla, the Free Gaza Movement, also has a distinguished membership. The FGM is a coalition of pro-Palestinian activists. They were the main coordinators of the flotilla, and its board of directors prominently includes Adam Shapiro and Huwaida Arraf, founding members of the International Solidarity Movement. Arraf is actually the board chair of the FGM and was herself aboard one of the ships. The International Solidarity Movement (ISM) practices to perfection the pretense of nonviolence and peace while actually supporting violence and terrorism. While ISM members do not engage directly in violence, they make no secret of supporting those who do. They even say the Palestinian "resistance" must be "both nonviolent and violent." The ISM in fact has ties to violent groups such as Hamas and Islamic Jihad. It has supported terrorists and shielded them from Israeli authorities.
It is no coincidence that these people are behind the Free Gaza Movement. They are practicing the identical strategy: using the language of peace and humanitarianism to mask an act of war. And that is exactly what the flotilla action was. Its purpose was to break the Israeli blockade in order to enable the free flow of weapons to Hamas. It is the same purpose the ISM had when it tried to block Israeli bulldozers from demolishing tunnels used for smuggling weapons into Gaza . It works by prostituting the language of peace to support the Hamas war effort.
Here is another glimpse of the sincerity of the peace-loving humanitarians. The following exchange was captured from a radio transmission between the Israeli Navy and the Mavi Marmara: Israeli ship: This is the Israeli Navy. You are approaching an area which is under a naval blockade. Mavi Marmara: Shut up! Go back to Auschwitz . An illegal act of piracy?So was the Israeli raid on the flotilla illegal, as many claim? Was it even an act of piracy?
That is the accusation of many of Israel 's antagonists. They often bring up international law against Israel, hoping people won't check the details. But if we look at the statutes themselves, this is what we find:
The San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea states (Section V) that "merchant vessels flying the flag of neutral states" may be attacked if "they are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture." This is precisely what happened in this case. The flotilla's stated intent was to breach the blockade. And there is clear video evidence that the ships were warned and refused to stop. Section VI states further that such ships may even be captured if they are attempting to breach a blockade.
Hamas is openly at war with Israel . It has used the seas to bring in materials for its war effort. Thus the blockade is justified under international law. But what about the charge that Israel had no right to stop the ships in international waters? Posner (2010) points out that there is longstanding precedent in international law for enforcing "publicly announced blockades on the high seas." In word and in deed, the Hamas government in Gaza has declared itself in mortal conflict with Israel . Israel has the right to try to stop the buildup of Hamas's military capability.
The Facts Hardly Matter AnymoreIsrael has a strong moral and legal case for the actions it took. Nevertheless, it hardly seems to matter. Israel has never been more isolated than it is right now. How can we explain this?
The explanation cannot be legal: there is a basis in international law for what Israel did, and in any case most anti-Israel demonstrators are not familiar with the subtleties of the law. The explanation cannot be moral, for the clear double standard by which Israel is judged cannot be justified morally. Because it too has fears of being destabilized Egypt enforces a strict blockade of its own border with Gaza , yet there is hardly any reaction and nobody accuses Egypt of occupying Gaza . Gaza fires rockets on Israeli cities, which is the whole reason for the blockade, and no one seems to think it's important. North Korea sinks a South Korean ship, and it hardly gets an eye blink. Saudi Arabia uses its oil wealth to bankroll terrorists around the world, and nobody notices. In Afghanistan girls' schools are attacked with poisoned gas and female students get acid splashed into their faces, and nobody protests, demonstrates, or sends freedom flotillas. The examples are endless - just tour the globe and you will find them. China and Tibet, Iran and its homosexuals and Bahais - situations far more serious than what happened on this flotilla, yet hardly eliciting a squeak of protest in comparison to the international uproar against Israel for trying to take measures to protect its cities.
What is going on here?
There is an obvious explanation, but I won't mention it because Jews aren't allowed to talk about it anymore. So I'll mention the not-so-obvious explanation, which can be captured in one word: politics. Political conditions have shifted to isolate Israel more than ever. The Muslim world, which has hated Israel since its inception, has become stronger and more assertive, especially since the collapse of the Soviet Union . The Arabs have oil, Israel does not, and the world is more dependent on oil, not less. Islam has experienced a revival, and with that also the conflicts with Jews enshrined in its scriptures - the chants of "Khaybar! Khaybar!" heard aboard the flotilla were no unique occurence; similar language is common in the Arab world and especially among Palestinians. Turkey now has an Islamist government, interested in proving its Islamic credentials and willing to approach Iran by provoking an incident with Israel .
The Palestinians have also become experts at manipulating the media. In this electronic age they are way ahead of Israel in harnessing the potential of the latest media channels such as Facebook and Twitter and YouTube, though Israel is beginning to catch up. The medium has indeed become the message.
This brings us to the Palestinians' greatest success: turning the language of morality into political cant.
George Orwell did a beautiful job of showing how this works in his political novel 1984. The Ministry of Truth, whose job of course was to disseminate lies, had on the walls of its edifice three slogans:
***WAR IS PEACE
***FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
***IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH It seems incredible, yet with proper massaging words can be made to convey precisely the opposite of what they were intended to mean. Just keep selling the idea hard enough and often enough, and if it jibes with something people already wish to believe, then it will stick. Here is a great example: When Hamas took over Gaza by force in 2007 and threw out Fatah, it proclaimed in radio messages that it had "liberated" Gaza (Tran, 2007).
And so again the Palestinians have skewered the language of morality to enable people to believe what they want to believe for political reasons, with the comfortable delusion that they are rising above politics. If the mission of the flotilla were truly humanitarian, there would have been a way to deliver those supplies wihout a confrontation. Israel offered to have them unloaded at Ashdod , inspected for weapons materials, and then sent to Gaza . But that would have ruined the protesters' plans to create an incident even at the expense of jeopardizing their mission to get those "vitally needed" supplies to the people of Gaza .
What the flotilla people don't want you to know is that every week Israel allows the transfer into Gaza of 50% more supplies than were carried on those ships. What they don't want you to know is that Israel is not starving the people of Gaza , and that Gaza markets have been overflowing. What they don't want you to know is the true purpose of their mission: to leverage international opinion to break the blockade so that bombs and missiles can once again flow freely to Hamas.
Seen in this light, the flotilla must be considered an act of aggression, whose mission would result in putting Israeli towns and cities in danger. Yet it was billed as "humanitarian, " a mission of "freedom," so that those who support aggression against Israel can do so with a clear conscience, perhaps sincerely believing they are doing what's morally right. And this is the most devastating and cynical victory of all: the transformation of language to make people truly believe that wrong is right.
When Hamas began shooting rockets at Sderot and other towns in southern Israel , people dismissed them as kids firing home-made firecrackers. Yet people were wounded and killed. And since then Hamas has steadily increased the range and payload of its rockets. With no Israeli blockade in place, Iran-backed Hamas could start importing long-range Iranian missiles capable of striking Haifa and Tel Aviv. Understandably Israel does not want to wait until this happens.
Clearly Hamas is not entitled to the language of morality it is exploiting for political purposes. We may not be able to change the political situation, but we must take back the language. We must expose the lie behind the "humanitarian" effort to support a regime with a murderous agenda. We need to unravel the deceptions, reminding ourselves that war is not peace, freedom is not slavery, and sometimes even "humanitarianism" can be aggression by another name.
Sources: Abu Toameh, Khaled, Ron Friedman, and Abe Selig. "Flotilla Aid Refused by Hamas." Jerusalem Post, June 3, 2010.
"Behind the Headlines: The Israeli Humanitarian Lifeline to Gaza." Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs, May 25, 2010.
Buck, Tobias. "Gaza Looks Beyond Tunnel Economy." Financial Times, May 23, 2010.
Deutsche Presse-Agentur (DPA). "Hamas Blocking Entry of Flotilla Aid into Gaza." Haaretz, June 3, 2010.
Gordis, Daniel. "A Botched Raid, a Vital Embargo." New York Times, June 2, 2010.
Haaretz Service and Associated Press. "UN, Hamas Meet to Discuss Stolen Gaza Aid." Haaretz, February 6, 2009.
Isseroff, Ami. "Who Is Behind the Gaza 'Freedom Flotilla'?." Zionism & Israel Information Center , May 30, 2010.
Kohlmann, Evan F. "The Role of Islamic Charities in International Terrorist Recruitment and Financing." DAnish Institute for International Studies, 2006.
Levitt, Matthew, David Makovsky, and Jeffrey White. "Fallout from the Gaza Flotilla Tragedy." Washington Institute, June 1, 2010.
Oren, Michael B. "An Assault, Cloaked in Peace." New York Times, June 2, 2010.
Phillips, Melanie. "'Peace Convoy'? This Was an Islamist Terror Ambush
." Spectator ( UK), May 31, 2010.
Posner, Eric. "The Gaza Blockade and International Law." Wall Street Journal, June 4, 2010.
Ravid, Barak and Yuval Azoulay. "Israel: Gaza Aid Convoy Can Unload Cargo in Ashdod for Inspection." Haaretz, May 27, 2010.
"San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea." International Committee of the Red Cross, June 12, 1994.
"Three Dozen Girl Students Were Poisoned in Afghanistan." Rawa News, April 26, 2009. "97 Girl Students, Teachers Poisoned in Afghanistan." Rawa News, May 12, 2009.
Tran, Mark. "Hamas on Brink of Gaza Takeover." Guardian, June 14, 2007.
Videos: A number of following videos: "Flotilla Passengers Fire Live Ammunition at IDF Soldiers" June 01, 2010 — The IDF commandos, during the operation to redirect the Gaza flotilla, boarded the Mavi Marmara in the early hours of May 31st, 2010. When they attempted to board, activists, in a prepared attack, lynched the soldiers and stole two pistols. In this footage you can hear the radio exchange between soldiers on their way to the bridge and the IDF ship. The soldiers report encountering live fire and serious violence.
"Flotilla Rioters Prepare Metal Rods, Slingshots, Broken Bottles, and Metal Objects to Attack IDF Soldiers." IDF Spokesperson' s Unit, June 2, 2010.
"Gaza Flotilla Participants Invoked Killing of Jews." Palestinian Media Watch, May 31, 2010. (Also Middle East Media Research Institute [MEMRI] Video Clip #2489,
Al-Jazeera TV Report from 'Freedom Flotilla' Before Its Departure for Gaza: Activists on Board Chant Intifada Songs and Praise Martyrdom. Al-Jazeera TV [ Qatar], May 28, 2010.)
"IDF Navy Soldiers Who Were Attacked Aboard the Marmara Ship." IDF Spokesperson' s Unit, May 31, 2010.
"IDF Navy Warns Flotilla." Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs, May 30, 2010.
"Mavi Marmara to Israeli Navy: 'We're Helping Arabs Go Against the US, Don't Forget 9/11 Guys'." IDF Spokesperson' s Unit, June 4, 2010.
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An Open Letter to Turkey by Daniel Greenfield
Dear Former Friends,Ever since you decided to trade in the Secularism of Ataturk for the Islamism of Erdogan, you also seem to have dispensed with the ability to coexist with non-Muslims on a peaceful basis. These days all we ever seem to get from you, is video clips of your leader, Prime Minister Erdogan, barking at us like a dog that its owner carelessly let off the leash. And if you don't know that Erdogan's owner lives in Riyadh, then you don't know very much of what goes on in your own country.
But your affairs are your own affairs. And our affairs are our affairs. If you want to let a fanatic in a cheap suit destroy Turkish nationalism in the name of Islam, that's your business. But when he gets into business with terrorist organizations who attack and murder our soldiers, then it's our business. And when a country that persecutes its Kurdish, Assyrian and Armenian citizens, and sends their elected representatives to jail-- presumes to self-righteously lecture us on how to manage our affairs, it had better remember that holding a stone throwing contest in a glass house will just lead to piles of broken glass.
You say you want an international investigation into the flotilla raid? Sure. Right after we have an international investigation into that minor matter of Armenian genocide that you've been ducking for quite a while. As the new "standard bearer" in fighting for human rights, I'm sure you will agree that it's only fair that Turkey should undergo the same scrutiny it demands for other countries.
And then we can move on to the more than 10,000 political prisoners in your jails. A number that at times has topped 100,000. An independent investigation could also begin by looking into the torture and murder of political activists such as Engin Ceber. They could meet with representatives of TAYAD, the organization representing the families of prisoners. And they would no doubt be fascinated by the more than 1500 children in your prisoners who are there on "terrorism" charges. Like that 12 year old you arrested in 2008 for singing a Kurdish folk song. So by all means wrap yourselves in the banner of "Human Rights" and we'll turn it into a noose and strangle you with it.
In Israel, Arabs are a legally recognized minority. Arabic is taught in schools and used as a legally recognized language. Meanwhile Kurdish identity is all but banned in Turkey. Kurdish names, folk songs and even the Kurdish language itself has been repressed. Your regime has actually prosecuted and removed officials for simply incorporating a Kurdish phrase into a greeting. You screech self-righteously about the "Palestinian children"-- perhaps we should talk about the hundreds of Kurdish children arrested for throwing stones at protests. Arrested and charged with terrorism. Just more of the thousands of political prisoners of oppressed minorities in your prisons.
And perhaps next time your dog Erdogan gets up to bark up at us about human rights, we can stuff this in his mouth. Jenin, the Second Lebanon War and every armed encounter between Israel and Islamic terrorists over the last 20 years combined together killed fewer people, than your country did in 1997 alone. After you get through lecturing us on the use of force against Islamic terrorists, shall we discuss how many times you used jets to bomb Kurdish rebels who were lightly armed at best. Including in 2008 when you invaded sovereign Iraqi soil in order to continue your genocide of the Kurdish people.
You talk about stolen land, when your entire country is stolen land, from Cyprus to Istanbul. Your regime is a racist illegitimate entity based on the oppression of the Kurds, the Armenians, the Assyrians, the Circassians and numerous others. You went directly from being Imperialists to Fascists to Islamists, a truly dubious achievement for any nation. Your history is filled with slavery, ethnic cleansing, genocide and invasion. And that's just in the last century alone. If you had any sanity or shame, you would dig a hole, crawl into it, and hope that no one mentions words like "Minority Rights" or "Territorial Legitimacy" in your presence, instead of trying to use them as a club against a nation whose national history predates yours by thousands of years. We had kingdoms and a civilization that changed the world, back when your ancestors were still trying to decide whether to eat the sheep or rape it.
But let us get back to your precious Islamist flotilla, decorated with Turkish flags that used to be more than just red versions of the Saudi flag. That ship you filled up with Muslim Brotherhood members and Islamist radicals bound for our shores. Over in your wonderful nation of boundless freedom, reporters have been put on trial for even interviewing leaders of terrorist groups. You sentenced the head of a Kurdish party to six months in prison for calling the head of the PKK, Mr. Ocalan, instead of just Ocalan. He joins the more than 800 Kurdish politicians you imprisoned in the last year alone. And after all that you actually have the nerve to pretend to be "outraged" when Israel intercepts your flotilla full of political terrorists?
But of course we know how strongly you feel about blockades. Like the time you blockaded Armenia for Sixteen Years. Very well then. If you insist on sending vessels flying the Turkish flag to aid Hamas, perhaps we'll begin sending vessels flying the Israeli flag to aid the PKK. We're not big fans of the PKK, but since you've decided to friend Hamas, then what's good for the turkey, just might be good for the gander. We can also fill a flotilla full of senile troublemakers, phony survivors and leftist radicals-- along with a few hundred well armed "activists" who know how to use a knife. Or perhaps we won't bother with any of that. Instead for every boat flying the Turkish flag that invades our territory, we'll donate a million to the PKK. I wonder how many rocket launchers that would buy. Perhaps the next time, your air force sweeps in to bomb Kurds out of their homes, they might get a surprise or two.
And then there's the Republic of Cyprus, which has actually been helping us stop weapons smuggling. They might benefit from significantly upgraded air defenses. While the US insists on equalizing weapons sales to Turkey and Greece, we just might have something tastier to offer to one side. And the citizens of the Republic of Cyprus might actually be able to sleep soundly in their beds, instead of being intimidated by savages showing off their F-16's over their heads. The Cyprus National Guard likes our drones, just like you do. But what if they had a much better equalizer at their disposal? Being a small non-Muslim nation surrounded by much larger Muslim countries, we do have a certain fondness for the infidel underdog.
Oh I know, what you're going to say. This means war. But you might want to consider that we've fought and beaten enemies many times our size. And what exactly was the last war you won single-handedly? And no, bombing starving Kurdish rebels from the air, or occupying Cyprus doesn't count. And how long could you fight that war, before a domestic Kurdish insurgency overthrows your little empire. If that doesn't happen, you might want to think about the big Russian bear at your back. The bear has been eyeing you for a long time now. And with your military engaged in a disastrous war for the Great Caliphate, your borders would be temptingly open. And who exactly would bail you out then?
Oh I know you've made many great news friends, such as Ahmadinejad and that nice burnoosed king in the Arabian Desert, who tells your Erdogan when to jump and how high, but if you think Iran is about to pass up Russian nukes in order to bail you out, you've got another thing coming. Meanwhile old Abdullah in the desert can't even protect himself without the US Marines. And if you think Obama would send them in to save your asses, you've got another thing coming. I'm sure if there were Russian tanks headed to Ankara, he'd make a vocal statement about it. And Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov would pretend not to laugh while hanging up the phone.
There is of course the European Union. Last time Russia pulled that trick, it was Britain that bailed you out in the Crimean War. But these days Her Majesty's Empire isn't quite in the same shape it used to be. Sure Cameron, Clegg and Harman will lick Erdogan's feet. But none of them want to be the next Tony Blair either. Germany doesn't like you very much anymore. Perhaps that time when it got enmeshed in WW1 to protect your Ottoman Empire may have put them off. Or your internal campaign of subversion exploiting Germany's horde of Turkish laborers. What are you left with then? France, Italy or perhaps Austria will forget that whole pesky Gates of Vienna thing and this time ride to your rescue.
No, when Russian commandos are ripping off your wife's Burqa-- there will be no one left to save you. Not your newfound allies, or Erdogan who will take the first plane to Riyadh, with as many Lira as his sweaty hands can shove into the pockets of his cheap suit. And just think of it, as the Hagia Sophia church that you turned into a mosque, will become a church again. Istanbul will once again be Constantinople, which means a certain catchy 20's song will require a rewrite. Of course it may not happen exactly that way. But it will happen. Erdogan's plan to suppress and integrate Kurds into a Muslim Turkey will not succeed. And his antagonizing of former allies means that Turkey is exchanging friends, for enemies. Meanwhile your new friends happen to share borders with you and have territorial claims on your land.
So when that day of reckoning comes, you will find that you have made enemies of former allies such as Israel and the US-- and that the new allies Erdogan has found for you in Iran and Syria would prefer a Russian controlled Turkey, that has no chance of ever reverting to a Kemalist government. And Erdogan's godfather in Saudi Arabia commands oil money, not troops. And while he might be willing to sink Turkey for the sake of Islam, perhaps there are Turks who value their nation, more than Islamism. If not, you can look forward to Erdogan "reforming" your country, until it has the military might of Pakistan, the literacy level of Saudi Arabia and the poverty rate of Egypt. It is of course your choice.
A people have the right to choose their destiny, for good or ill. And if you find that this letter is filled with contempt, it is a contempt fully merited by a regime that seeks to cloak its shameful betrayal of a former ally in the guise of human rights, when it brutally suppresses the rights of its own minorities. You may wish to go on dancing to the tune being played by Erdogan, to sheet music composed in Riyadh. It is a very good tune. Filled with hate, violence and religious fanaticism. That also is your choice. But know that whatever you have was bought and paid by your ancestors who understood that Turkey would either modernize out of the gutter of Islam, or it would be washed away by the colonial tide. Your power does not come from Islam, it comes from the bread crusts of civilization that fall from the table of Europe. Abandon them for the red hued madness of the Jihad, and you will not rule over an empire, but over a wasteland. If you doubt that, look to the south and to the east. Look to the desert. You came from there once. And if you throw away civilization for the fanatical madness of Islam-- you will return there again.
Sincerely Yours
A Descendant of a Subject of the Ottoman Empire
Daniel Greenfield
P.S. - That must be a Israeli Horse you are trying to mount, Erdogan:
I like how warph is now trying to hide my posts.... Whats wrong warph? too chicken sh!t to debate?
Quote from: Anmar on June 06, 2010, 01:07:40 PM
I like how warph is now trying to hide my posts.... Whats wrong warph? too chicken sh!t to debate?
Hiding your posts.... Oh, you mean that hamas garbage you're posting ??? Pretty idiotic comment, Clown. That garbage you posted is there for all to see.
Oh... and do I want to debate a hamas Clown??? Okay, chicken shit.... here goes: I'm RIGHT.... you're WRONG... END of debate!
I'll keep posting the FACTS and you can keep posting the hamas garbage. Let the forum figure it out.
Quote from: Warph on June 06, 2010, 08:00:17 PM
Hiding your posts.... Oh, you mean that hamas garbage you're posting ??? Pretty idiotic comment, Clown. That garbage you posted is there for all to see.
Oh... and do I want to debate a hamas Clown??? Okay, chicken shit.... here goes: I'm RIGHT.... you're WRONG... END of debate!
I'll keep posting the FACTS and you can keep posting the hamas garbage. Let the forum figure it out.
You'll continue to post fact huh? The same kind of fact that you usually post:
**"you're a terrorist for disagreeing with me"
**"you're a liberal"
**"clown this, clown that"
**"mooncalf"
Yes Warph, you're right you keep posting the facts for us all to see.
Quote from: Anmar on June 06, 2010, 12:49:06 PM
Good, I have a lot of things to respond to and educate you all about.
Lets start with the idea that people in the holy land have been fighting for thousands of years. While there certainly have been periods of conflict, There have also been relatively long peaceful periods....
You may notice a trend. When the area is ruled by arabs, they get along fine. When europeans come in and try to take control, there's a problem. You'd think a lesson would have been learned?
When arabs are in control theres peace?? Really? Now, maybe its just me but somehow I don't see a country that allows things like Honor killings, the public beating of women, genocide, the gential mutalation of young girls, or actively seeking the destruction of a sovergin country, as being peaceful...but like I said, maybe its just me.
As to the rest of your post...I would be selling out not only my country but also my belifes if I didn't stand for Isreal. I believe that the Jews are Gods chossen people, that they are "the apple of His eye" and I am not going to mess with that.
As for the Pope saying this and that, I really don't care. I don't see him or the catholic church as Christian. And speaking of such, if there are Christians in paliestine then they too would stand for Isreal and the Jewish people. Oh, and I might mention that they wouldn't have been dancing in the streets on 9/11 nor would they follow Hamas (muslim) leadership.
Now, you can quote all the papers and articles you want, I'll let the actions of palestine speak for themselves. And with their rocket and mortar attacks on Isreal their stance has been clear.
Quote from: Varmit on June 07, 2010, 10:37:35 AM
When arabs are in control theres peace?? Really? Now, maybe its just me but somehow I don't see a country that allows things like Honor killings, the public beating of women, genocide, the gential mutalation of young girls, or actively seeking the destruction of a sovergin country, as being peaceful...but like I said, maybe its just me.
As to the rest of your post...I would be selling out not only my country but also my belifes if I didn't stand for Isreal. I believe that the Jews are Gods chossen people, that they are "the apple of His eye" and I am not going to mess with that.
As for the Pope saying this and that, I really don't care. I don't see him or the catholic church as Christian. And speaking of such, if there are Christians in paliestine then they too would stand for Isreal and the Jewish people. Oh, and I might mention that they wouldn't have been dancing in the streets on 9/11 nor would they follow Hamas (muslim) leadership.
Now, you can quote all the papers and articles you want, I'll let the actions of palestine speak for themselves. And with their rocket and mortar attacks on Isreal their stance has been clear.
And with the actions of Israel, there stance is clear as well: THEY ARE NOT PEACEFUL AND HAVE EVERY INTENT ON KILLING.
Quote from: jerry wagner on June 07, 2010, 12:54:33 PM
And with the actions of Israel, there stance is clear as well: THEY ARE NOT PEACEFUL AND HAVE EVERY INTENT ON KILLING.
So Jerry, if i start lobbing rockets designed to maim and kill people into your front yard, does that mean your not going to retaliate?
Quote from: srkruzich on June 07, 2010, 01:04:50 PM
So Jerry, if i start lobbing rockets designed to maim and kill people into your front yard, does that mean your not going to retaliate?
It has not always been retaliation in Israel's case. That's the point. And retaliation is not right in of itself either. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Quote from: jerry wagner on June 07, 2010, 01:09:02 PM
It has not always been retaliation in Israel's case. That's the point. And retaliation is not right in of itself either. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Retaliation is not right?? Your telling me that its wrong to fight back when someones trying to kill you!!?!????
Quote from: srkruzich on June 07, 2010, 01:22:20 PM
Retaliation is not right?? Your telling me that its wrong to fight back when someones trying to kill you!!?!????
I'm saying that it is not always right.... depends on the circumstances and also the lack of retaliation displays authenticity towards accomplishing peace. However, I don't believe that there is a point to arguiing this point as it is clear that you believe that Israel is only ever acting in their defence.
Quote from: jerry wagner on June 07, 2010, 01:27:30 PM
I'm saying that it is not always right.... depends on the circumstances and also the lack of retaliation displays authenticity towards accomplishing peace. However, I don't believe that there is a point to arguiing this point as it is clear that you believe that Israel is only ever acting in their defence.
its amazing how you and so many people out there can only see israel as being the evil ones, when they defend themselves against THOUSANDS of rockets and missiles being fired at their people. THeir nto the one blowing up markets and bus's and businesses targeting civilians. They do respond when pushed so far, and yes civilians do get killed but thats because the enemy is too coward to stand up and fight. They have to hide behind civilians.
I know, your stance as you have made it well known many times is that if israel wasn't there, there wouldn't be any fighting. Well thats not a valid argument. Israel is there, and it is their land, and they do have a right to defend themselves from any and all aggressors.
What really needs to be done is that if the folks in Gaza cannot or will not remove the terrorists, and those who attack Israel, then Israel needs to go in and clean house completely. After all, its Israeli land, and the folks living there are doing so because Israel hasn't run them off. By all rights, Israeli land goes from Mediterranean sea all the way to iran border, and from turkey down to the red sea. That is the land that was given them.
Quote from: jerry wagner on June 06, 2010, 08:15:44 PM
You'll continue to post fact huh? The same kind of fact that you usually post:
**"you're a terrorist for disagreeing with me"
**"you're a liberal"
**"clown this, clown that"
**"mooncalf"
Yes Warph, you're right you keep posting the facts for us all to see.
Ah so.... jerry wagner, the person who loves to throw out his "verbal diarrhea".... like that phrase, jerry? Not bad, got it from you. Going over some of your past postings, I have an idiom for you that fits you to a "T":The pot calling the kettle black." Since you think I'm into name calling, here's the perfect one for you: Liberal Chain Rattling Clown. No offense, jerry... you rattled, I responded. Question: Why do you hate Israel and the Jews, jerry? Just curious.
Quote from: Warph on June 07, 2010, 03:07:32 PM
Ah so.... jerry wagner, the person who loves to throw out his "verbal diarrhea".... like that phrase, jerry? Not bad, got it from you. Going over some of your past postings, I have an idiom for you that fits you to a "T":The pot calling the kettle black." Since you think I'm into name calling, here's the perfect one for you: Liberal Chain Rattling Clown. No offense, jerry... you rattled, I responded. Question: Why do you hate Israel and the Jews, jerry? Just curious.
Do not hate Israel and the Jews, that's your conservative insert-words in people's mouth trait. And call my post verbal diarrhea huh? Have you bothered to look at the lengths of your reposts? Either way, you are the "wingnut - post other people's wingnutty work clown", if we are name-calling.
So what happened to the topic?I was trying to learn something. Personally I was more interested in the blockade, not more name calling from ANYBODY. Could we please get beyond that? I may have to make you all go stand by the flagpole for a time out. >:(
SSDD Diane
Quote from: jerry wagner on June 07, 2010, 03:42:16 PM
Do not hate Israel and the Jews, that's your conservative insert-words in people's mouth trait. And call my post verbal diarrhea huh? Have you bothered to look at the lengths of your reposts? Either way, you are the "wingnut - post other people's wingnutty work clown", if we are name-calling.
I challenge anyone to go back and read your caustic posts to see what I mean by your "verbal diarrhea," a phrase btw that you came up with. I have yet to see you give a civil word in response to Varmit, Steve and some others.
As for the length of my repost articles... I can see they are wasted on you. Too bad... you could learn something about what is really going on over there. But, you could care less... right, sport. I know, worked there for State and made a number of trips to other middle eastern countries.
Okay, jerry... give me your expert advice.... tell me why you
do not hate Israel and the Jews. This ought to be interesting.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on June 07, 2010, 03:45:10 PM
So what happened to the topic?I was trying to learn something. Personally I was more interested in the blockade, not more name calling from ANYBODY. Could we please get beyond that? I may have to make you all go stand by the flagpole for a time out. >:(
Right, Diane... on my way to the flagpole. :-[
Quote from: pamagain on June 07, 2010, 05:51:46 PM
SSDD Diane
LOL... well said, Pam. SSDD.... same sh*t, different day....
Quote from: srkruzich on June 07, 2010, 02:20:11 PM
its amazing how you and so many people out there can only see israel as being the evil ones, when they defend themselves against THOUSANDS of rockets and missiles being fired at their people. THeir nto the one blowing up markets and bus's and businesses targeting civilians. They do respond when pushed so far, and yes civilians do get killed but thats because the enemy is too coward to stand up and fight. They have to hide behind civilians.
I know, your stance as you have made it well known many times is that if israel wasn't there, there wouldn't be any fighting. Well thats not a valid argument. Israel is there, and it is their land, and they do have a right to defend themselves from any and all aggressors.
What really needs to be done is that if the folks in Gaza cannot or will not remove the terrorists, and those who attack Israel, then Israel needs to go in and clean house completely. After all, its Israeli land, and the folks living there are doing so because Israel hasn't run them off. By all rights, Israeli land goes from Mediterranean sea all the way to iran border, and from turkey down to the red sea. That is the land that was given them.
Well said, Steve and I agree. The way it sits as of now, Egypt does not want Gaza.... the Fatah is not prepared to retake Gaza... Hamas is absolutely unwilling to negotiate a permanent peace agreement.... so the only thing left for Israel to do is retake Gaza, drive out Hamas and reassert control over the area. This will lead to short term violence, but long term peace. As opposed to the current scenario adopted by the Obama administration which leads to both short term violence and long term catastrophe. The blockade of Gaza is failing... not because of Israel, but because the world could not make the right choice between a democratic country and Hamas, a genocidal terrorist group that is second cousins with Al Queda. The blockade was Israel's concession to terrorism, a passive enforcement of its borders and interdiction of arms smuggling. The passive response is dead now. It's time to retake Gaza or face the consequences.
Hamas was elected..... it was a democratic process with international observers. You really are telling a lot of lies, you must be losing it in your old age, you can't seriously by trying to tell that many lies on purpose?
Also, accusing someone of being anti-jew when they speak out against Israel is an outdated tactic. There are just as many anti-Israel jews as pro-Israel jews. And there's nothing wrong with standing against a racist, aparthied regime. There is something wrong with supporting them, as you do. In fact, do you also condone their acts of genocide?
Quote from: Anmar on June 08, 2010, 07:18:11 PM
Hamas was elected..... it was a democratic process with international observers. You really are telling a lot of lies, you must be losing it in your old age, you can't seriously by trying to tell that many lies on purpose?
Also, accusing someone of being anti-jew when they speak out against Israel is an outdated tactic. There are just as many anti-Israel jews as pro-Israel jews. And there's nothing wrong with standing against a racist, aparthied regime. There is something wrong with supporting them, as you do. In fact, do you also condone their acts of genocide?
So then, if palestinians elected hamas, a terrorist organization, then they themselves must be terrorist or supporters of terrorism. Either way, Israel has a right to defend itself, and if hamas or palestinians are embracing terrorism they have every right to root out all forms of terrorism.
Do the palestinians not have the right to defend themselves? seems to be a double standard here.
Quote from: Anmar on June 08, 2010, 08:38:54 PM
Do the palestinians not have the right to defend themselves? seems to be a double standard here.
No they do not have the right to attack israel. They are first of all, living on israeli soil, secondly, they bring in a terrorist organization and essentially bed down with terrorists whose sole purpose is the extinction of jews. So by their actions they have become terrorists themselves. The unfortunate fact is that those people there that do not support it, are victims of hamas.
You know its obvious that you and jerry, both would rather see evil to prosper and good men die. Your obvious support of hamas, and al queda, show that. Might i suggest that if you don't like how israel handles their own business, why don't you go there to "educate" the israelis on how they are wrong and terrorist organizations are right.
typical neocon response, try to associate the other side with whatever evil is on your mind. Who's talking about Al queda? Hamas was elected by the palestinians as their government. That was said in response to someone saying they don't have elections. Can you debate without demonizing your opponent?
In 1900, the palestinians (arabs jews and christians) were living peacefully together. European jews came to the land and started committing terrorist attacks against the british and arab inhabitants. This is an old war, a group of people, zionists, europeans, came to palestine and invaded the land. The palestinians have been fighting for their territory back ever since. The israelis are the aggressors here. No matter what lies you spin, thats the bottom line.
Quote from: Anmar on June 08, 2010, 09:47:16 PM
typical neocon response, try to associate the other side with whatever evil is on your mind. Who's talking about Al queda? Hamas was elected by the palestinians as their government.
Al- Qaeda and the Palestinian Islamist Resistance Movement -Hamas were established in the period of 1987-1989 as offshoots of the Muslim Brotherhood (MB), a political party set up by Hassan Al Banna in Egypt in 1928. MB considered Islam to have an essential political and social character that needed to be reasserted in the face of the societal ills that had come to the Islamic world with secularism. (The Society of the Muslim Brothers in Egypt, p.28)
So yeah Al Queda and hamas are the same thing.
QuoteThat was said in response to someone saying they don't have elections.
Even North Korea and iran has elections, not that it does the people any good. You saw how they handled elections in iran recently, anyone that protested the results disappeared.
QuoteCan you debate without demonizing your opponent?
Maybe when yall quit demonizing the israeli's for defending and holding onto what is theirs.
QuoteIn 1900, the palestinians (arabs jews and christians) were living peacefully together. European jews came to the land and started committing terrorist attacks against the british and arab inhabitants. This is an old war, a group of people, zionists, europeans, came to palestine and invaded the land. The palestinians have been fighting for their territory back ever since. The Israelis are the aggressors here. No matter what lies you spin, thats the bottom line.
Again, as has been said many times the land in question from the mediterranean sea to iran, from turkey all the way to the red sea is Israelis land. Right now all they have is a tiny portion of it, but they will reclaim all of their land that was given to them. And in 1900, the land was sitting idle waiting for its owners to come back. No arab or Palestinian owned it, they were nomadic tribes that wandered. so they didn't have a ownership of the land. To own it one has to settle on it and keep it in their possession, defend its borders, ect ect....
IF anyone had ownership at that time it might have been GB. But then they just renounced ownership and transferred whatever ownership they might have had to the israelis. So again, the land is theirs not anyone elses. The only reason anyone can be against them living on their own land is they hate the Israelis.
Prior to 1900 there was no concept such as the Palestinians.
the Land of Israel, according to dozens of visitors to the land, was, until the beginning of the last century, practically empty. Alphonse de Lamartine visited the land in 1835. In his book, Recollections of the East, he writes "Outside the gates of Jerusalem we saw no living object, heard no living sound?." None other than the famous American author Mark Twain, who visited the Land of Israel in 1867, confirms this. In his book Innocents Abroad he writes, ?A desolation is here that not even imagination can grace with the pomp of life and action. We reached Tabor safely?. We never saw a human being on the whole journey.? Even the British Consul in Palestine reported, in 1857, ?The country is in a considerable degree empty of inhabitants and therefore its greatest need is that of a body of population??
SO where is this Indiginous people of palestine??? They weren't there in 1800's, they weren't there in 1900, only around 1916 there was a presence of arabic moving into the region because there were some israeli's moving into this barren desolate region and building. They provided jobs and guess what.... The arabs needed work so they came.
Quote from: Anmar on June 08, 2010, 07:18:11 PM
Hamas was elected..... it was a democratic process with international observers. You really are telling a lot of lies, you must be losing it in your old age, you can't seriously by trying to tell that many lies on purpose?
Maybe it was a democratic process, but it was not one that is binding on the israelis. Castro, Iran, North Korea claims to use a democratic process, yet they still remain on a terrorist list and one that we will go in if they attack us and wipe them out.
You made a statement that terrorism isn't evil that those who fight it are evil. One problem there. Both worlds have a simple commandment that the islamic/muslim/ are violating. thou shalt not covet thy neighbors house. IF they were so right, then they would follow their own commandments as it is the moral foundation of their faith.
So by attacking israel they are in fact in violation of one of their most respected prophets in their belief. To deny the israelis land that was promised to them, the muslims are violating the laws that were given, and ironically the promise of the land was given to them by moses, delivered by joshua, the same moses that transcribed the laws that the muslims are supposed to follow.
The palestinains are ruled under islamic law so why don't they follow their own laws? They have no moral compass or justification in their quest to sieze land.
Quote from: jerry wagner on June 07, 2010, 12:54:33 PM
And with the actions of Israel, there stance is clear as well: THEY ARE NOT PEACEFUL AND HAVE EVERY INTENT ON KILLING.
Gee...ya' think!! Someone attacks my home I am going to kill the son of a Bit@#. If they were intent on "killing" the Isreali military could wipe out all of palestine in a heartbeat. And you know what, maybe they should. Maybe its time for the Jewish people to start dishing out what they have been given since practically the beginning of time. If they did the world would see a bloodbath like never before, because there is not a country on the globe that could stand against them.
Quote from: Varmit on June 09, 2010, 09:44:22 AM
Gee...ya' think!! Someone attacks my home I am going to kill the son of a Bit@#. If they were intent on "killing" the Isreali military could wipe out all of palestine in a heartbeat. And you know what, maybe they should. Maybe its time for the Jewish people to start dishing out what they have been given since practically the beginning of time. If they did the world would see a bloodbath like never before, because there is not a country on the globe that could stand against them.
Varmit that day is soon coming. In fact the ensuing war will kill around half a billion people in the valley of meddigo. And it won't be isralis dying either.
"What did the President know, and when did he know it?" asked Howard Baker about President Nixon during the Watergate hearings. The carefully planned May 31 ambush of Israeli naval commandos by armed Turkish martyrdom fanatics, in collusion with Jodie Evans of the radical leftist group Code Pink and along with Obama friends Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn, raises precisely the same question.
Most conspiracy theories are hogwash, but not all of them. Stalinism really was a conspiracy to infiltrate, sabotage, and ultimately conquer the West. It had some spectacular successes, like stealing nuclear secrets from the Manhattan Project, a feat for which physicist Klaus Fuchner was celebrated in Communist East Germany.
The Boomer Left's "march through the institutions" was really a secretive plan to take over U.S. universities and media in the 1970s and '80s. The Great March shifted the whole U.S. media and political culture to the left.
For decades, the network of leftists and Islamic fascists behind the Gaza ambush has been trying to create a media extravaganza to make Israel look bad before the world. Call it a conspiracy, or call it a network of like-minded radicals and Islamofascists. Whatever it was, their chance came on May 31 off the coast of Gaza.
As Robert Maginnis just wrote:
The contrived Turkish-led aid flotilla crisis was intended to force Israel to lift its arms blockade of Gaza. While the Israelis were victorious in forcing the flotilla to its demands, the political outcomes are still reverberating around the globe. For now the Islamist forces have been emboldened, Turkey has been added to the list of terrorism supporters and long-term Israeli security has been weakened.
Obama is now trying to use the flotilla crisis to force concessions from Israel.
My question is whether Obama's network of associates colluded before the fact to provoke a "suicide by cop" spectacular to put Israel at a political disadvantage.
The evidence for Hamas and Turkish connivance before the event is now widely recognized. Three days before the bloodshed, the Hamas TV channel in Gaza showed a Yemeni professor proclaiming that "as much as the heroes on the flotilla want to reach Gaza, the option of martyrdom is more desirable to them." That same day, Al Jazeera TV, seen throughout the Middle East, reported of the "Freedom Flotilla," "Before Its Departure for Gaza: Activists on Board Chant Intifada Songs and Praise Martyrdom."
Shortly before the May 31 ambush, Obama's "anti-terror Czar," John O. Brennan, made worldwide headlines by praising jihad (martyrdom warfare to convert infidels by force or terror), reciting a passage in Arabic signaling his sympathy and approval, and referring to Jeruslaem as "al Quds," its Arabic name. Jihad has a deliberate double meaning. To Western suckers, it means the inner struggle for Muslim virtue. To Iran and Saudi Arabia, Hamas, Hezb'allah, and now Turkey, it means killing the infidels unless they surrender to Islam.
The Turkish cruise boat, decorated with an enormous red Turkish flag, was owned by the IHH and backed by the Islamist government of Turkey, including Prime Minister Erdogan, who has described Israel as "a festering boil in the Middle East that spreads hate and enmity." Erdogan also claims that "It is not possible for a Muslim to commit genocide" -- while congratulating the Islamist perpetrators of genocide in the Sudan.
That was not the story spread by the Western media, and especially not oby Code Pink, the radical leftist group led by Jodie Evans, or by Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn, trying to agitate for a march on the Gaza blockade in Egypt at the very same time. The radicals promised peace and love if only Israel lifted the blockade on terror materiel for Hamas.
Is there any chance that Bill Ayers and Jodie Evans and the other Americans did not know whom they were in bed with? If anybody wants to know what Islamic fascists say and do when they get a chance, just look at the daily stream of English translations from Arabic and Persian on the MEMRI website. A little sample from Imam Ahmad Ibrahimi, Coordinator of Algerian Delegation to "Freedom Flotilla": "Our Hatred of Them Is So Intense That We Wished We Could Have Been Bombs and Blown Ourselves Up among the Brothers of Apes and Pigs." Hamas TV and the Arab and Iranian propaganda channels drive that message home to their captive audiences day after day.
In the upshot, "peaceful protesters" from Code Pink provided false-flag cover to the Turkish cruise ship Mavi Marmara, filled with an estimated forty Turkish wannabe suicides and even owned by the Turkish version of Hamas. The Turks engaged in standard pre-martyrdom rituals before leaving, wearing white headbands, writing their last wills and testaments, chanting martyrdom slogans, and equipping themselves with curved knives, steel bars, night goggles, and perhaps guns.
The idea that Code Pink and the others did not see the Turkish suicides-to-be getting ready before the confrontation is absurd. They knew. In fact, according to Bill Ayers in the days before the crisis, Hamas was guaranteeing the safety of Code Pink in Gaza
In a New York Times op-ed, Israeli Ambassador Michael Oren wrote:
The Mavi Marmara on Monday was not motivated by peace. On the contrary, the religious extremists embedded among those on board were paid and equipped to attack Israelis -- both by their own hands as well as by aiding Hamas -- and to destroy any hope of peace. Millions have already seen the Al Jazeera broadcast showing these "activists" chanting "Khaibar! Khaibar!" -- a reference to a Muslim massacre of Jews in the Arabian peninsula in the seventh century. YouTube viewers saw Israeli troops, armed with crowd-dispersing paintball guns and side arms for emergency protection, being beaten and hurled over the railings of the ship by attackers wielding iron bars.
The Turkish chant "Khaibar! Khaibar!" is the equivalent of "Auschwitz! Auschwitz!" It is the name of a famous genocide of the Jews of Mohammed's time.
In the upshot, the Israelis fell into the Turkish-Code Pink trap and lucked out with only six badly wounded soldiers. The suiciders got what they were looking for: martyrdom for Allah and outraged anti-Israel headlines around the world.
What did the White House know, and when did it know it? That's what I am wondering. We have a mass of circumstantial evidence. But I wonder: Was there culpable collusion among the Obama White House, Jodie Evans, Bill Ayers, Bernardine Dohrn, and the Turkish Muslim Brotherhood -- or was it a matter of like-minded individuals acting independently?
White House National Security staffers have long been directly involved in undercover operations, from LBJ's Gulf of Tonkin deception to Ollie North's Iran Contra outreach to the mullahs.
Shortly afterward, the White House sent its advisor Dalia Mogahed to the U.K. to appear on a radical Islamist television show. Ms. Mogahed's message to the U.K. audience was that "Sharia Law is misunderstood." Shariah law "includes the controversial 'Hadd offences,' crimes with specific penalties set by the Koran and the sayings of the prophet Mohammed. These include death by stoning for adultery and homosexuality and the removal of a hand for theft."
The Obama White House was therefore signaling to Islamist radicals that it would be willing to indulge their actions against Israel and the West.
Jodie Evans and Code Pink also ensured the presence on the flotilla of many small leftist delegations from Europe and the U.S., who flew home immediately after the Turkish ambush to spread malicious disinformation. One of these "eyewitness accounts" has since been retracted, as the true story has emerged via YouTube and the blogosphere and even filtered through some of the mainstream media.
As for the wildly biased media, Reuters has confessed to yet another "fauxtography" scandal by cropping Turkish weapons out of the photos of the fight on the cruise ship.
After the Gaza ambush hit the headlines, another amazing coincidence occurred. Within a few days, the usual liberal chorus simultaneously called for Israel to lift the weapons blockade around Gaza. The chanting chorus included:
1. Barack Obama
2. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton
3. Turkish P.M. Erdogan
4. The U.N. Security Council
5. U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki Moon
6. Britain, Spain, the EU, Egypt, and Iran
This is pure Alinsky, giving the impression of unanimous "non-negotiable" demands after an agitprop stunt grabs the headlines. It's what Obama has done by publicly scapegoating the car companies, Wall Street, the banks, Rush Limbaugh, doctors who supposedly perform operations on kids just for the money, the State of Arizona, British Petroleum, and anybody else who can be shocked and scared by the President of the United States. It is Obama's SOP. The attack on Israel looked like just another example of Obama's Chicago Way.
Let's back up for a moment and look at it strategically.
Obama is in a huge mess. His ratings are in the dumps. The Democrats in Congress are running away from him. The Gulf oil fiasco has even Louisiana Dems raging against him. The economy is entering a second dip.
So Obama desperately needs a foreign affairs victory. But he has alienated all of our allies, including the U.K., France, Germany, and Japan. He's even scared the Chinese, who will lose a ton of money if the US economy gets worse. He has promised a New World Order to the Muslims, but they haven't seen any results.
What do you do if you're Barack Obama and you've been surrounded for decades by Jodie Evans, John Brennan, and Rashid Khalidi? Not to mention Jeremiah Wright, Louis Farrakhan, and Bill Ayers?
Your playbook says to create a provocation to give cover for a radical shift in U.S. policy against Israel. Whether the White House knew what was going to happen, or whether Obama just watched it benignly from a distance, we don't know. I believe there is a serious, rational question whether this was an NSC black op, just like LBJ's Gulf of Tonkin and JFK's assassination of the president of South Vietnam.
The Watergate burglaries were known to a lot of people, including Mark Felt at the FBI, who leaked it to the WaPo in the guise of Deep Throat. If the Gaza ambush was stirred up with White House knowledge or collaboration, there must be large numbers of people around the world who know all about it. Turkey's role has now been exposed. The role played by Hamas is clear. Code Pink's open collusion is a public fact.
Stand by for more revelations. I don't think they will get away with this.
QuoteAfter the Gaza ambush hit the headlines, another amazing coincidence occurred. Within a few days, the usual liberal chorus simultaneously called for Israel to lift the weapons blockade around Gaza. The chanting chorus included:
1. Barack Obama
2. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton
3. Turkish P.M. Erdogan
4. The U.N. Security Council
5. U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki Moon
6. Britain, Spain, the EU, Egypt, and Iran
well, 3 out of 6 aint bad. You should do a little less lying and a little more fact checking.
I am reminded of the conspiracy theories trotted out about George Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, etc etc etc after 9-11.
BIG headlines...who knew what when.....all the "oh NO Our president would NEVER do things like that.........SSDD. The SHOE is just on the OTHER foot now and the OTHER side is doin all the theorizin.
Quote from: Anmar on June 14, 2010, 07:53:36 PM
well, 3 out of 6 aint bad. You should do a little less lying and a little more fact checking.
That's 6 for 6, you hamas clown.... you need to learn to count.
In case you haven't noticed, Bo's last press conference was sans American Flags. What's up with that? The man hasn't a Patriotic bone in his body! He is totally clueless. Ever since Barack Obama moved into the Oval Office, he's given one speech after another, some with Flags, most without. Moreover, the majority of his spiels seem to be devoted to his trying to clarify or, in some instances, absolutely deny and contradict what he stated in earlier addresses. The end result is that it all becomes something of a vicious circle, resembling a snake trying to swallow its own tail. I mean, even if you're a fan of his, you have to admit that the only thing longer than Obama's health care bill were the endless lectures he devoted to the subject. Not too long ago, a woman asked him a question, and 17 minutes later, barely pausing to take a breath, he was still blathering on. The man obviously suffers from diarrhea of the vocal cords, or as jerry wagner would put it: "verbal diarrhea." Unfortunately, that's one more malady the health care bill doesn't cover.
Still, in spite of the fact that Barry never shuts up for even five seconds at a time and is on TV more often than that green gecko lizard trying to sell us insurance, he never tells me what I really want to know.... like, for instance, where is his real birth certificate and what happened to his college transcripts? Am I the only person who's curious about what ever happened to his mother-in-law? And where is Bo, the First Dog, these days? I've seen neither hide nor hair of either one in a very long time, and, as a taxpayer at least partially responsible for their well-being, I'd like to know whether either one is back in Chicago or waiting to be adopted at the local pound.
Leaving Obama for a minute, the clowns who really mystify me are the liberals. For instance, consider the way they speak. Take Israel. Without even blushing, they refer to the "peace process" whenever they're slapping down Israel. No matter what that little tiny country does.... be it defending itself against missile attacks and suicide bombers or building houses in Jerusalem.... the loonie clowns on the left, such as the resident Hamas supporter, lying anmar.... will insist the Jews are jeopardizing the peace process. And just what exactly is the peace process to which Arabs, Muslims and just about every U.S. president since Carter pay lip service? When you get past the P.R. spin, it's the "extinction of Israel!"
Another term the lefty clowns toss around is the "international community." That has a high-sounding ring to it, which is why the nincompoops love it so much. In fact, if by that particular community, one is referring to the members of the U.N., one is referring to a gang of chiselers, cowards and incompetents, representing the interests of gangsters, rogues and butchers. Frankly, I wouldn't trust the creeps at the U.N. to run the 7/11 that anmar works for, let alone the world. Only a mushy-headed liberal clown would endow the organization with moral authority. In fact, between the two groups, if I had to pick one, I'd vote for the Mafia, if only because it doesn't rely on American tax dollars to survive.
Another term liberals like to use is "misspeak." Take Richard Blumenthal, candidate for the U.S. Senate, claimed he misspoke when he went around claiming he'd served in Vietnam. It seems he'd never even been there for a vacation, let alone a war. Now... when a person says, "They is coming over for dinner," he has misspoken, using "is" for "are."
What Blumenthal did was lie. Then to compound his sin, he held a press conference after his lies were uncovered by the NY Times, and claimed he was taking complete responsibility. Yet another lie. If this schlimiel was taking complete responsibility, he would have said:
"I have lied to all of you. I have shamed my friends and family. At no point in my life have I possessed even an ounce of the courage displayed by the men who actually served and suffered in Vietnam. If I stood on my tiptoes, I couldn't reach their shoelaces. I stand here today completely disgraced by my past words and actions in order to announce that I have tendered my resignation as attorney general of Connecticut and to withdraw from the Senate race."
Instead, this clown told the world that he was proud of his years of public service thus turning what was supposed to be his public confession into just another campaign speech.
Years ago, liberals hated those who had served in Vietnam. Back in the 1960s, mollycoddled left-wing kids who tried to make a virtue of the fact that they'd lacked the guts to serve in the military actually spat on returning vets and called them the vilest of names. Flash forward and you have the disgusting spectacle of presidential candidate John "look at me, I'm a clown" Kerry donning a military jacket and announcing to cheering lefty clowns that he was "reporting for 'clown' duty" and now you have Senate candidate Richard Blumenthal lying about having faced not only the horrors of war, but the public vilification by people exactly like himself!
Getting back to Barack Obama, I honestly don't know why so many Jews are shocked to discover that he is so blatantly pro-Arab and is willing, even anxious, to sell out Israel for far less than the usual 30 pieces of silver. During the presidential campaign, a lot of people insisted that Obama was really a Muslim pretending to be a Christian. I might have been one of them tho' I really don't remember. I did figure, tho', that if my name was Barack Hussein Obama and I was going to run for president a mere seven years after 9/11, I wouldn't admit I was a Muslim, either. On the other hand, I, personally, would have sooner trusted a Muslim (except for that hamas supporter, little lying anmar) who'd been attending a mosque in Dearborn for 20 years than a Christian who'd been attending a racist, anti-jew, anti-American church in Chicago for all that time. Perhaps they are shocked simply because he has surrounded himself with so many Jewish leftists, and was so deep into the pockets of George Soros and Andy Stern that along with hundreds of millions of dollars in campaign funds, he was also collecting lint. The Jewish liberals will apparently sacrifice anything, including Israel's survival, for the sake of furthering their loony left-wing agenda.
The Jews announce they plan to build 1200 housing units in Jerusalem and Obama goes positively apeshit, but anmar's Hamas fires ten thousand plus rockets into Israel and Bo doesn't say a word about it! Clearly, it's none of our business whether or not Israel builds homes. Obviously if they weren't needed, they wouldn't be built. But there are other equally basic truths to consider. For one thing, Jerusalem is Israel's capital. How would we feel if a foreign country told us whether or not we could erect buildings in Washington, D.C.? For another thing, it is Judaism's holiest city and always has been. The only reason that Muslims now lay claim to it is in order to make trouble, which, as you may have noticed, is pretty much the only thing they've managed to produce over the past thousand years.
This brings us to what countless American presidents and secretaries of state have persisted in calling a peace process. And who would have ever guessed that all of those rather sober-sided ladies and gentlemen possessed such a marvelous sense of whimsy? There is, as all rational people realize, no such thing as a peace process in the Middle East. There are merely two opposing sides. On one side are those dedicated to wiping Israel off the map, like anmar's little group, hamas, which in fact they've already done on their own maps, and who also just happen to be America's sworn enemies. On the other side is Israel, a western-style democracy that is home to over a million Arabs, a nation that foolishly keeps trying to bribe the opposition by handing over its legal property, only to discover that its enemies are not bought off as easily as Democratic congressmen.
Speaking of American politicians, I'm aware that a lot of people assumed that Obama would be a strong ally of Israel's because he had people like Rahm Emanuel and David Axelrod in his inner-circle, and that the outer-circle was filled with such heavy-hitters as Charles Schumer, Barney Frank, Arlen Specter, Henry Waxman, Barbara Boxer, Dianne Feinstein, Brad Sherman, Al Franken, Bernie Sanders and more than 30 other Jewish congressmen and senators whose poisonous personality and hatred begins dripping from the cesspool of their aging, dirty hearts. (I borrowed that last line from anmar who must have been reading too many Simon R Green books to come up with that line). But there really is no excuse for such gullibility in 2010. Anyone who doesn't understand that these days, Jewish politicians are liberals first, last and always, and have greater allegiance to Barack Obama and Karl Marx than to Thomas Jefferson and Moses, just hasn't been paying attention. So far as I'm concerned, it has always seemed obvious that Obama is a virulent anti-Semite. Before you attack moi for attacking him, ask yourself one simple question: Can you imagine sitting in Rev. Wright's church for 20 minutes, let alone 20 years, if you weren't a Jew hater?
Gee, I hope jerry wagner doesn't think this rant is too long.
No presidents are ever in charge of the "stage'' from which they speak. They have people who do that and if they are out some where, the crew usually works with the host. Whether there is or isn't water, the height and angle of the teleprompter etc. is always done by others. Lacking the flag is a mistake, but not one to lay at any President's feet. First Mother in Law is still helping take care of the kids as far as I know, and first dog is busy spying on the Republicans as always. Boy are you a grump today.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on June 15, 2010, 07:58:13 AM
No presidents are ever in charge of the "stage'' from which they speak. They have people who do that and if they are out some where, the crew usually works with the host. Whether there is or isn't water, the height and angle of the teleprompter etc. is always done by others. Lacking the flag is a mistake, but not one to lay at any President's feet. First Mother in Law is still helping take care of the kids as far as I know, and first dog is busy spying on the Republicans as always. Boy are you a grump today.
Actually diane, it is laid at his feet. He had the choice to go on without the flag displayed. In fact it would have taken only seconds to bring them in. There is no excuse for it and it speaks loudly about his lack of commitment to this country. Remember, even his wife was not proud of America until they got into the whitehouse.
I don't mind telling you, having been a conference speaker and workshop leader many, many times over the years, when you are announced to come on from off stage, remembering to look for anything including a flag, is about the last thing on your mind. Now I know I'm not in the same league as a president, but I was always more mentally consumed with not falling down, having my notes, would my mike work, would the AV equipment work and so on. You people sure are picky and unforgiving. Presidents are human after all.
As much as I didn't care for George Bush's policies sometimes, it would never have occurred to me to lambaste him over his strange English, dress, trying to go out locked doors, giving everybody weird nicknames or paying attention as to whether he spoke before a flag or the back of a wagon. "Mission Accomplished?" Not hardly, but I'm sure he didn't put that famous sign up there. Not his problem!
Was Ruffles and Flourishes played? Who cares! It doesn't matter! I want to know what's in a President's head, what does he say that does or doesn't lead to what he, or his staff, actually do. The other stuff is petty as far as I'm concerned.
Right now I am furious with congress. They seem to be stuck in neutral and can't get a move on about anything. I'm not sure it would matter who the President is. They seem to be consumed with stopping any progress about anything.
Israel Continues to Transfer Humanitarian Aid to Gaza:
http://www.theisraelproject.org/site/apps/nlnet/content2.aspx?c=hsJPK0PIJpH&b=689705&ct=8407335
More Flotillas Bound for Gaza in Coming Days and Weeks
http://www.theisraelproject.org/site/apps/nlnet/content2.aspx?c=hsJPK0PIJpH&b=689705&ct=8445617#examples
Ships from several countries, including Iran and Lebanon, have left or are planning to leave for Hamas-controlled Gaza in defiance of an Israeli maritime blockade on that territory.[1]
Israel considers Gaza-bound convoys a security risk because of Hamas' ongoing efforts to smuggle Iranian rockets and other weaponry into Gaza since the Iran-backed group overthrew the Fatah-led Palestinian Authority in a bloody coup there in 2007.[2] Israel Security Agency Director Yuval Diskin has said that a port in Gaza would "pose a huge security threat to Israel."[3]
Iran arms, funds and trains Hamas, which has been designated a terrorist organization by the European Union, the United States, Israel, Canada and Australia.[4] Since Israel voluntarily withdrew from all of Gaza in August 2005 in hopes of paving the way for a peaceful, independent Palestinian state, Hamas has fired more than 6,500 rockets and mortars into Israel.[5]
Reports about the new flotillas come in the aftermath of a May 31 Israeli campaign to prevent an illegal flotilla from reaching Gaza, in which nine activists – all Turks or of Turkish descent – were killed after passengers on board the Mavi Marmara, a Turkish ship in the convoy, attacked Israeli military personnel.[6] Israel had ordered the vessels to dock in the southern Israeli port of Ashdod to unload the cargo for security inspections and subsequent delivery to Gaza.[7] Despite the refusal of all six ships to detour to Ashdod, the Mavi Marmara was the only vessel where a violent confrontation took place.[8]
Although two individuals coordinating the Lebanese convoy have denied they are receiving support from Hezbollah, another proxy of Iran, one of them has written in praise of the terrorist group's leader, Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah, and the other has met and thanked Nasrallah publicly.[9] Nasrallah called for more ships to Gaza at a June 4 rally, stating that "only diplomacy which is built on strength and arms is effective."[10] Since the end of Israel's 2006 war with Hezbollah, the terrorist group has rearmed far beyond its pre-2006 capacity.[11]
Following are details about new ships heading for Gaza, collected from published reports as of June 16, 2010:
******************************************************************************************************************
"Freedom Fleet II"
Free Gaza – the group that sponsored the flotilla intercepted by Israel May 31 – and Viva Palestina, a UK-based group,[31] are planning another convoy of 10 – 15 ships, slated to leave for Gaza by October. One of the main organizers is Iyad el-Sarj, based in Norway.[32]
******************************************************************************************************************
Iran
One Iranian ship left for Gaza June 12 from the Iranian port of Khorramshahr and plans to sail through Omani, Yemeni and Egyptian territorial waters before it tries to reach Gaza.[12]
Two Iranian ships organized by Iran's Society for the Defense of Palestine are scheduled to depart shortly: one ship is named Toward Gaza and will set sail from the southern Iranian port of Bandar Abbas, while the other ship will leave from northern Iran and stop in Turkey before making its way to Gaza.[13]
Despite a previous statement by Iran's Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC) that it was willing to provide a naval escort to any additional aid ships wishing to reach Gaza,[14] an IRGC commander and an official in charge of the ships both said June 14 that IRGC forces would not accompany the ships.[15]
An Iranian official in charge of the convoy said those aboard the ships "are willing to become martyred in this way."[16]
Three members of the Majlis (Iran's parliament) also intend to travel to Gaza by way of Egypt later this week.[17]
An Iranian ambassador recently threatened that "if the (Zionist) entity dares to direct any aggressive attack (against the ship) then it is certain [Israel] will be met by a much stronger and firm blow."[18]
Lebanon
Two Lebanese organizations – Journalists without Borders and Free Palestine – are sponsoring the Naji Al Ali, with at least 50 journalists and 25 European volunteers on board, including European parliament members.[19]
Palestinian businessman and Free Palestine chairman Yasser Kashlak is funding the Naj Al Ali vessel, as well as an all-women's ship, the Mariam.[20] Kashlak has insisted he has no connection with Hezbollah, Hamas or Iran, but in 2009 Kashlak sent a letter to Nasrallah in which he wrote, "We ask Allah to extend your life and the lives of all who support Palestine and the noble resistance."[21] Additionally, in a blog post, Kashlak criticized Arab governments and media for failing to embrace Nasrallah's self-proclaimed victory in Hezbollah's 2006 war with Israel.[22] Samar Hajj, who is organizing the Mariam, said the ship "has nothing to do with Hezbollah even though it is an honor for us to be supporters of the resistance."[23] She is the wife of Ali Hajj, a former Lebanese general imprisoned until recently for his suspected involvement in the assassination of former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafiq Hariri.[24] The couple met with Nasrallah three weeks ago to thank him for his support.[25] A U.S.-based group, the Council for the National Interest Foundation, has asked its supporters to volunteer to join the Lebanese convoy.[26]
Turkey
The Insani Yardim Vakfi, or "humanitarian relief fund" (IHH), the hardcore Turkish Islamist group that partly organized and funded the previous flotilla that included the Mavi Marmara, said it will send six more ships to Gaza in July.[27] A 2006 study conducted by the Danish Institute for International Studies showed that the IHH was involved in planning an al-Qaeda attack against Los Angeles International Airport in 1999. The IHH reportedly acquired forged documents, enlisted operatives and delivered weapons to al-Qaeda in preparation for the attack, which was ultimately foiled.[28]
Germany
A German organization called Jewish Voices for a Just Peace is sponsoring a ship with 14 activists aboard, scheduled for departure in mid-July. According to the group's spokeswoman, that vessel may be delayed because 40 additional German-Jewish activists wish to participate, requiring them to charter another ship. The port from which the ships plan to depart has not been announced.[29]
European leaders have reportedly reacted positively to Israel's request that they take action to prevent Gaza-bound vessels from leaving European ports and forbid their citizens from participating.[30]
Historically, ships bound for Gaza have carried tons of weapons among their cargo. Examples of previous Gaza-bound ships carrying weapons:
"Francop" (2009)
In November 2009 the Israeli Navy intercepted the "Francop," a ship containing 320 tons of arms sent from Iran and destined for Hezbollah in Lebanon.[33] Weaponry and ammunition were disguised as civilian cargo in the hundreds of containers the ship was transporting.[34]
"Abu Hasan" (2003)
On May 21, 2003 Israeli naval commandos intercepted a fishing boat, the Abu Hasan, sailing from Lebanon to Egypt carrying a Hezbollah explosives expert bound for Gaza. Also seized were CD discs with instructions on how to assemble bomb belts for suicide bombers, a radio-activation system for remote-control bombs and 25 detonators for Kassam rockets.[35]
"Karin A" (2002)
In January 2002 a ship carrying weapons intended for the Palestinian Authority was captured in the Red Sea by Israel's Navy and Air Force. The boat's cargo included 50 tons of advanced weaponry including Katyusha rockets, rifles, mortar shells, mines and a variety of anti-tank missiles. Senior figures in the Palestinian Authority were involved in the smuggling. [36] [37]
Ashkelon and other coastal cities would have been threatened by these Katyusha rockets if they reached Gaza.[38]
"Santorini" (2001)
On May 7, 2001 Israeli naval forces intercepted a Lebanese ship destined for Gaza, which contained anti-aircraft missiles, anti-tank missile-launchers, RPG rockets, mortar shells, mines, rifles and guns. The shipment, some of which originated in Iran, had been loaded in Lebanon by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine.[39] The Santorini and another boat, the Calypso-2, made three successful smuggling operations of which the first was in November 2000.[40]
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[1] Sofer, Roni, "Israel to EU: Stop your citizens from joining flotillas," YnetNews, June 15, 2010, http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3905357,00.html
[2] "The Gaza flotilla and the maritime blockade of Gaza - Legal background," Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs, May 31, 2010, http://tinyurl.com/33tofyd; Vick, Karl, "Can Israel Learn How to Make Its Case?" TIME, June 10, 2010, http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1995850,00.html
[3] "Diskin: No aid crisis in Gaza," The Jerusalem Post, June 15, 2010, http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=178503
[4] "Council Decision," Council of the European Union, Dec. 21, 2005; "Foreign Terrorist Organizations (FTOs)," U.S. Department of State Web site, Oct. 11, 2005, http://www.state.gov/s/ct/rls/fs/37191.htm; Wilson, Scott, "Hamas Sweeps Palestinian Elections, Complicating Peace Efforts in Mideast," The Washington Post , Jan. 27, 2006, accessed Jan. 18, 2006,
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/26/AR2006012600372.html; Public Security and Emergency Preparedness Canada, National Security, Listed entities, accessed Jan. 18, 2007, http://www.psepc.gc.ca/prg/ns/le/cle-en.asp#hhi18; "Listing of Terrorist Organisations," Australian Government Web site, May 24, 2007, http://tinyurl.com/2cfzzw
[5] IDF Spokesperson's Unit communiqué, Jan. 3, 2009
[6] Black, Ian; MacAskill, Ewen; Booth, Robert, "Gaza flotilla attack: Turks killed by Israeli soldiers given heroes' funeral," The Guardian (UK), June 4, 2010, http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/03/gaza-flotilla-attack-turkey-funeral
[7] "IDF forces met with pre-planned violence when attempting to board flotilla," Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs, May 31, 2010, http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Government/Communiques/2010/Israel_Navy_warns_flotilla_31-May-2010.htm
[8] Teibel, Amy; Goldenberg, Tia, "Israeli commandos storm aid flotilla; 9 killed," AP, May 31, 2010, http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ioi_0jtO9RjMwPNRoXNCndRPRq3gD9G1ST400
[9] Nahmias, Roee, "Lebanese flotilla organizers found to have Hezbollah ties," YnetNews, June 16, 2010, http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3906357,00.html
[10] Yazbeck, Natacha, "Hezbollah chief calls for 'Freedom Flotilla II,'" AFP via Asharq Alawsat, June 5, 2010, http://www.aawsat.com/english/news.asp?section=1&id=21193
[11] Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center communiqué, Feb. 22, 2009, http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/malam_multimedia/English/eng_n/html/ipc_e013.htm; "One year since the acceptance of UN Security Council Resolution 1701, which ended the second Lebanon war: An interim report," Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center, Aug. 12, 2007, http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/malam_multimedia/English/eng_n/html/un1701_0807.htm
[12] "Iran sending aid ships to Gaza, Iranian agencies say," CNN, June 14, 2010, http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/06/14/iran.gaza.ship/index.html
[13] Walker, Peter, "Iran sends aid ships to Gaza," The Guardian (UK), June 14, 2010, http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/14/iran-aid-ships-gaza
[14] "Iran Red Crescent to send two aid ships to Gaza," AFP, June 7, 2010, http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iEWKLpKjRKdQtCat_2tmvahx_Uaw
[15] "Iran to send aid ships to Gaza," Al Jazeera English, June 15, 2010, http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2010/06/20106159550707221.html
[16] "Iranian flotilla leaving for Gaza," The Jerusalem Post, June 14, 2010, http://www.jpost.com/IranianThreat/News/Article.aspx?id=178395
[17] "Iranian flotilla leaving for Gaza," The Jerusalem Post, June 14, 2010, http://www.jpost.com/IranianThreat/News/Article.aspx?id=178395
[18] Reem Khaleefa, "The Iranian ambassador warns Israel from targeting Iranian ship heading to Gaza," Al-Wasat (Bahrain), June 16, 2010, http://www.alwasatnews.com/2840/news/read/434953/1.html
[19] "Israel braces for Iranian attempt to break Gaza blockade," Xinhua via Global Times, June 15, 2010, http://world.globaltimes.cn/in-depth/2010-06/542419.html
[20] Nahmias, Roee, "Lebanese flotilla: No link to Hamas, Hezbollah," YnetNews, June 15, 2010, http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3905607,00.html; "Gaza-bound ship seeks women volunteers," The Daily Star (Lebanon), June 14, 2010, http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=1&categ_id=1&article_id=115939#axzz0r1uIpf7T
[21] Nahmias, Roee, "Lebanese flotilla organizers found to have Hezbollah ties," YnetNews, June 16, 2010, http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3906357,00.html
[22] Yasser Kashlak, "I am sad (2)," Yasser Kashlak's blog, July 27, 2009, http://kashlakyasser.blogspot.com/2009/08/2.html
[23] "Lebanese women to send aid ship to Gaza: organizers," AFP, June 15, 2010, http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/100615/world/israel_conflict_gaza_lebanon_women
[24] "Lebanese women to send aid ship to Gaza: organizers," AFP, June 15, 2010, http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/100615/world/israel_conflict_gaza_lebanon_women
[25] Nahmias, Roee, "Lebanese flotilla organizers found to have Hezbollah ties," YnetNews, June 16, 2010, http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3906357,00.html
[26] E-mail communication from Eugene Bird, "PRIORITY, PRIORITY, PRIORITY: JOIN SECOND AID BOAT TO GAZA," Council for the National Interest Foundation, June 15, 2010
[27] "Turkish flotilla organisers to send more Gaza ships," Reuters, June 16, 2010, http://af.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idAFTRE65F3JI20100616
[28] "IHH, which plays a central role in organizing the flotilla to the Gaza Strip, is a Turkish humanitarian relief fund with a radical Islamic anti-Western orientation," Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center, May 26, 2010, http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/malam_multimedia/English/eng_n/html/hamas_e105.htm
[29] "Deutsche Juden schicken ein Schiff nach Gaza", Sueddeutsche, Jun 9, 2010, http://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/palaestinenser-blockade-durch-israel-ein-schiff-nach-gaza-1.955844; "German Jews 'inundated' with requests to join new Gaza aid flotilla," DPA via Haaretz, June 14, 2010, http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/german-jews-inundated-with-requests-to-join-new-gaza-aid-flotilla-1.296146
[30] Sofer, Roni, "Israel to EU: Stop your citizens from joining flotillas," YnetNews, June 15, 2010, http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3905357,00.html
[31] "About Us," Viva Palestina Web site, http://www.vivapalestina.org/about.htm, accessed June 16, 2010
[32] Sofer, Roni, "Israel to EU: Stop your citizens from joining flotillas," YnetNews, June 15, 2010, http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3905357,00.html
[33] "Documented proof of Iranian complicity in arms smuggling to terrorists," Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Nov. 10, 2009, http://tinyurl.com/ykuhj2j
[34] "500 Tons of Weapons for Hezbollah Intercepted by Israeli Navy," IDF Spokesperson Web Site, Nov. 4, 2009, http://idfspokesperson.com/2009/11/04/500-tons-of-weapons-for-hezbollah-intercepted-by-israeli-navy-4-nov-2009/
[35] "The Seizing of the Abu Hasan," Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs, May 22, 2003, http://tinyurl.com/8pz7p
[36] "Seizing of the Palestinian weapons ship Karine A: Photos," Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Jan. 4, 2002, http://tinyurl.com/3xn9ln5
[37] "IDF Seizes PA Weapons Ship: The Karine A Affair," Jewish Virtual Library, Jan. 3, 2002, http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/paship.html
[38] "Seizing of the Palestinian weapons ship Karine A," Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Jan. 4, 2002, http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Government/Communiques/2002/Seizing%20of%20the%20Palestinian%20weapons%20ship%20Karine%20A%20-
[39] "IDF Seizes PA Weapons Ship: The Karine A Affair," Jewish Virtual Library, Jan. 3, 2002, http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/paship.html
[40] Lorenz, Akiva J. "The Threat of Maritime Terrorism to Israel," IDC Herzliya International Institute for Counter-Terrorism, Sept. 24, 2007, http://www.ict.org.il/Articles/tabid/66/Articlsid/251/currentpage/6/Default.aspx
How to fight the next Gaza bound flotilla:
Apart from being the diversion by Iran to finish the bomb, the flotillas against Israel are essentially propaganda tools to discredit Israel and the Jewish people. Islamic propaganda kamikazes or kamikaze protesters, as Caroline Glick calls them, are willing to kill and die for jihad and to blacken the Jews in the eyes of the gullible West in the process. The right way to fight the flotilla in addition to stopping it with military means is to turn the tables on the jihadists and expose to the world what these people believe in and what they are fighting for.
This can be done by printing thousands of leaflets and making a few huge posters with quotations from the Hamas Charter. For instance:
Article 7: 'Oh Muslim, oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him,'
Article 14: There is no solution to the Palestinian problem except by jihad.
These leaflets can be dropped on the ships before the interception takes place and posters appended to the side of the ships in full view of any video taken by international media.
If this is done there it is almost certain that the essential message of what the Hamas members believe in will finally reach the TV audiences around the world.
Article 7 and Article 14 will clearly be seen on the side of the flotilla ships. People will ask what is written on the thousands of leaflets.
The target of these leaflets is not the Islamic propaganda kamikaze but the world at large which is almost totally ignorant what Hamas stands for
.....Warph
Poll: Most Palestinians want peace with Israel
Fafo poll conducted in West Bank and Gaza finds that 89% Palestinians support PA legislative elections this year, 84 % believe Fatah will win.
The majority of Palestinians support a peace agreement with Israel and believe that the Palestinian Authority should use non-violent means to achieve their political goals, a new Fafo poll revealed.
Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas
Fafo, a Norwegian based international multidisciplinary research foundation, found that 73 percent of Palestinians in both the West Bank and Gaza were in favor of peace negotiations with Israel, but stressed that a settlement freeze should be a precondition to talks.
The poll also revealed a rise in Palestinian support for halting rocket attacks from Gaza against Israel, rising from 53 percent in favor of a halt in 2009 to 61 percent in 2010.
Most Palestinians who agreed to answer the poll said they had more confidence in the Fatah leadership, headed by Mahmoud Abbas, than that of Hamas, and revealed that support of Hamas in Gaza was relatively lower than it was in 2008.
Also, over 89 percent of Palestinians are greatly in favor of new legislative elections this year, but only if it were held in both the West Bank and the Gaza Strip with the participation of Hamas.
The poll also found that if the elections were held this year, 84 percent believed that the Fatah would win. However, three of ten poll respondents believed that neither Abbas nor Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh were qualified to lead the Palestinian Authority, and claimed they would not vote.
The poll, which has been conducted in the PA for the past three years, found that after the Gaza War in December 2008, support for the Hamas party surged, but has gradually dropped since.
The respondents were randomly selected individuals aged 18 and above.
Of the 960 respondents in the West Bank in February 2010, and 933 respondents in Gaza during May 2010, the poll found that Palestinians were split over a unilateral declaration of a Palestinian state, the poll found.
Interviews took place at 66 fieldwork points in both areas, yet researchers limited their results saying that "These are people who refuse to answer the question, claim they do not intend to cast their votes, or do not know which party (or candidate) to support."
yes, most palestinians want peace, and most israelis don't. what else is new?
Quote from: Anmar on June 22, 2010, 12:44:32 AM
yes, most palestinians want peace, and most israelis don't. what else is new?
What's new, clown.... I'm glad you asked. Check this out on Gaza City:
It began with an innocent trailer on YouTube -- a plug for a club called "Roots." The scene showed well-fed women wearing traditional Muslim head coverings but otherwise garbed in chic clothing enjoying themselves at the club's "fine dining restaurant, banquet hall and terrace cafe." What was startling was the club's location: in the heart of Gaza City.
Gaza, the territory which, to judge from international news media reports, is the most impoverished place on the planet earth. Gaza, which is supposedly suffering from such terrible shortages that "activists" from around the world have no choice but to ram blockades to bring in desperately needed goods. Gaza, which has managed to capture the sympathies of the United Nations, Europe - and even the White House.
The YouTube image of plump, fashionably garbed Gaza women enjoying a night out on May 10, made many people wonder if perhaps all those news media accounts of Gaza poverty were not quite accurate.
And then people started asking: if the Arabs of Gaza are starving, as the news media have suggested, how is it that not a single resident of the territory has died from malnutrition. Not one! How do we know? Because you can be sure that if even one Gaza Arab died of starvation, it would be front page news around the world, for starters.
But leave it to the New York Times to (inadvertently) blow the lid off the entire myth of Gaza's poverty. In its June 13 "Week in Review" section, the Times featured six "slice of life" photographs from Gaza and in its online version, a full twelve. The contrast between these photos and what the UN and the news media have been claiming for years is startling.
We see a traffic snarl. Several of the cars appear to be late-model BMWs. In the background one can see modern, colorful stores.
A family at the beach. Nobody starving here. Smiling women, children in clean, modern clothing, a table with a platter of food.
Gaza fishermen at work. In rowboats? Homemade rafts? Hardly. They clearly have relatively modern fishing trawlers.
A couple emerging from a mall in what the caption calls "a wealthy neighborhood of Gaza." There are wealthy neighborhoods in Gaza? Nobody at the White House seems to know that.The caption to photo number nine announces: "The opening of a new shop in Gaza City selling wedding and engagement dresses." In the windows, one can see some very fancy wedding gowns. In Israel, brides often cannot afford to buy a wedding dress and have to borrow from what is known as a "gemach," a community charitable society.
Maybe it's time for a flotilla of aid for poor Israeli brides.And on and on it goes, with each photo providing more evidence that the dramatic claims about impoverished Gaza, which are routinely used to bash Israel and justify billions in Western aid to Gaza are, at the least, vastly overstated.
See for yourself:http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2010/06/13/weekinreview/13gaza-ss-12.html
Oooops.....
US Warns Lebanon: Don't Send Flotilla to Gaza
IsraelNationalNews.com
by Hana Levi Julian
Published: 06/24/10, 11:28 AM
Last Update: 06/24/10, 11:51 AM
The United States has warned Lebanon to steer clear of the current effort by various elements to escalate tensions with Israel by attempting to violate its maritime sovereignty over Gaza waters.
In a statement issued Wednesday, the U.S. State Department urged Lebanon to "behave responsibly" and not to try to send aid to the Hamas terrorist-ruled Gaza region by sea. Instead, organizers who are planning an "aid flotilla" similar to the one sponsored last month by the terror-linked Turkish organization IHH, were told to send their aid via the approved overland routes.
The Beirut-based group said that one of the two boats it plans to send to Gaza from Lebanon has already received approval from the government to set sail for Cyprus.
In order to reach Gaza, however, the boats must also receive approval from the Cypriot authorities prior to departure from their local port. But organizers said they might avoid this problem by simply changing course on their way to Cyprus and heading directly for Gaza.
"Direct delivery by sea is neither appropriate nor responsible, and certainly not effective under the circumstances," the U.S. statement said. "We, along with our partners in the Quartet, urge all those wishing to deliver goods to do so through established channels so that their cargo can be inspected and transferred via land crossings into Gaza."
The Quartet – comprised of the United States, Russia, the European Union and the United Nations – has repeatedly called on Hamas to officially recognize Israel's right to exist, renounce violence and uphold prior agreements.
"There is no need for unnecessary confrontations, and we, along with our partners in the Quartet, call on all parties to act responsibly in meeting the needs of the people of Gaza," the statement continued.
Lebanese and foreign journalists have said they are planning to be aboard the two vessels, along with the activists and the alleged aid. According to the Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center, the two groups behind the operation are Journalists without Borders and the Free Palestine Movement. The ITIC added, however, that the vessels were purchased and the flotilla was organized with backing from Syria and the Lebanese Hizbullah terrorist organization. "Neither of them wants to expose its true identity," said ITIC.
Israel has warned that it will act to prevent the flotilla from reaching Gaza if the organizers fail to heed its warnings and those of the international community.
"Israel reserves its right under international law to use all necessary means to prevent these ships from violating the existing naval blockade imposed on the Gaza Strip," wrote Israel's ambassador to the United Nations, Gabriela Shalev, in a letter last Friday to U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon. "While those who organize this action claim that they wish to break the blockade on Gaza and to bring humanitarian assistance to the people of Gaza, the true nature of the actions remains dubious," Shalev added. "The organizers of these boats have made repeated assertions to the media that they wish to be Shahids [martyrs]."
The Lebanese government has said, meanwhile, that it does not allow vessels to set out from its ports to any destination under Israeli sovereignty, since the Jewish State is considered an enemy nation. In addition, the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon (UNIFIL) patrols the waters off the Lebanese coast, and it is not clear what role the UN vessels might play in preventing an attempt by flotilla organizers to send the boats to Gaza, whether directly or via Cyprus.
(IsraelNationalNews.com)
.....Warph