'Civil Rights' and Total War
by William Norman Grigg
http://www.lewrockwell.com/grigg/grigg-w149.html
Ok. Snippets from here there and everywhere. Please explain what the point is. Everything from Plato to Cromwell to Sheridan and Lincoln. What is the issue here? ( and on Memorial Day weekend at that.) Stringing together a bunch of quotes does not a good article make. Is this a "feel sorry for the south" piece again? Like it or not the south lost, and "To the victor go the spoils" One person quoted was even anti Constitution, which around here is treason. Red, please explain what the author means, and I'm not being a smart Alec when I say this...I really don't understand, as a teacher would say,"the main idea."
Much as it scares me that I do.....I think I get the point Diane. It's another rant about government agression in a round about way...by using examples of what various governments were willin to do in the past to squash dissension.
Yeah it COULD happen again..........but WILL it? .......and what will the general public do about it?
Thanks Pam, it was too fragmented for me. Especially the anti constitution part. Every time I thought I got it, it went somewhere else. I'm just not in the mood I guess, to have to think that hard today. ::) ;)
"The American people, North and South, went into the war [Between the States] as citizens of their respective states, they came out as subjects... And what they thus lost they have never got back."
-- H. L. Mencken
And Obama acts more like an educated Republican than a Democrat.
Ok, what did the people really lose that they never got back? People prey on each other all the time, did then, do now. Big business is in the pockets of politicians, then as now. Money talks. So what's new? They came out as "subjects" and how might that be? That's how politics works. (That's how war ends, with winners and losers and a lot of dead people.) If you aren't making somebody mad you aren't doing your job! The 2 Bushes expanded Gov't and set the wheels in motion for some bad stuff to happen. So far Pres. Obama hasn't been able to do very much about it. If the parties continue to do nothing but neutralize each other nothing of substance will ever happen. Unless the Repubs. come up with a real viable candidate soon, they are doomed to failure again in 2012.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on May 29, 2010, 04:40:48 PM
And Obama acts more like an educated Republican than a Democrat.
Ok, what did the people really lose that they never got back? People prey on each other all the time, did then, do now. Big business is in the pockets of politicians, then as now. Money talks. So what's new? They came out as "subjects" and how might that be? That's how politics works. (That's how war ends, with winners and losers and a lot of dead people.) If you aren't making somebody mad you aren't doing your job! The 2 Bushes expanded Gov't and set the wheels in motion for some bad stuff to happen. So far Pres. Obama hasn't been able to do very much about it. If the parties continue to do nothing but neutralize each other nothing of substance will ever happen. Unless the Repubs. come up with a real viable candidate soon, they are doomed to failure again in 2012.
What did they lose? everything. Before, they were citizens of their soverign state. They were sovereigns themselves. The federals were just a co-op of states pooling together their moneies to provide a defense for the whole continent.
After the war, sovereign citizens became subjects/slaves of the Union. The states rights were overrun, and dissassembled by removing the duly elected officials in each southern state and new ones implemented by lincolns government. Then their rights to vote was stripped from them so they could not remove these usurpers and restore the properly elected officials to their offices. Did you know that the veterans, were not allowed to even erect memorials to their dead? they were not allowed to have anything to do with honoring their fallen. THe women are the reason why there are confederate cemetaries in the south. They paid for, worked to build, and erected all the memorials.
And as the article stated, Sherman was a butcher, war criminal. He slaughtered women and children as he burned everything from chicamaugua down to savanah. His men raped the women, stole whatever was left, burned anything they couldn't take, and pillaged every inch of the land. Razed the crops, razed the forrests, left a scorched earth.
He was no hero. Worst kind of example of a miltary leader one could find with absolutely no honor or character.
Now we are learning some real history from Srzurich, not the indoctrination taught by the Gov't schools.
Yup, he should know....he was there.
God, save the Queen! Real history? ::) ::) ::)
Red, what's with you? Do you ever do more than reprint what other people have to say or take cheap shots at people like me, who are brave enough to talk to you directly? Are you still fighting the Civil War? Isn't there a double standard here? You want to fly the confederate flag, but you want to restrict others from flying any flag that is special to themselves. I have a feeling you are also one of the people on here who would resent urban blacks who won't take advantage of the opportunities given to them, but then it's pity party time for the south that lost the war. Stuff happens! Some people will be taken advantage of. Terrible things happened during that war, no doubt about it. Sherman, Sheridan, Custer and many others played politics as much as they fought. No schools are going to spend huge amounts of time on the Civil War unless it's a college course about the Civil War....Same about WWII. It has nothing to do with Gov't. and Gov't schools. (You want the story of Camp Sumter (Andersonville) taught in detail? There were terrible things on both sides!) It has to do with the passage of time. Look how much new history had happened since the Civil War. WWI.,WWII, and Korea, Viet Nam and on and on, and that's just military history. How much time did you spend on any of them in school? How about The Spanish American War,The French and Indian War? When would you have had time for more than an overview of any of those in High School? There is plenty to learn and places to learn it, but it usually has to be after high School. Upper level courses in college have all the details you are craving. As I have said before, read books written by historians, not politicians. You'll get a better, truer view of history, warts and all.
As far as the total silliness involving kids being told to change shirts, that's small stuff that is totally dumb, locally solved and has no business on national news.
Steve, yes, I knew about many of the things the south lost. I wanted your take on it. At least you write your own opinions. But the south lost! That's what happens. That's why wars should be avoided.The winner is never a sure thing and the losers never knows how they will be treated. As far as states losing their right to vote, I'm not sure what you meant. Details please? Of course women couldn't vote then anyway. >:( ahem!
Quote from: Diane Amberg on May 30, 2010, 09:26:21 AM
Yup, he should know....he was there.
You know, i wasn't there, but i did get the priviledge to hear stories about it from my great grandmother, and great great grandfather. i was 7 when gg grandpa died, and he was born in 1863. Died when i was 7 in 1968.
Great grandma was born in 1865 and died in 1965. They both grew up during the decimation of the south by the north.
THe war wasn't bad enough, they had to make the southerners pay dearly for even thinking that they could stand up against the north.
And all of their stories about the civil war era is on tape too. :)
Quote from: Diane Amberg on May 30, 2010, 10:54:43 AM
Steve, yes, I knew about many of the things the south lost. I wanted your take on it. At least you write your own opinions. But the south lost! That's what happens. That's why wars should be avoided.The winner is never a sure thing and the losers never knows how they will be treated. As far as states losing their right to vote, I'm not sure what you meant. Details please? Of course women couldn't vote then anyway. >:( ahem!
FIrst of all you mentioned andersonville, and yes that was a bad situation. The problem was that there wasn't enough meds food or clothes and shelter to go around.
On the other hand, look at camp elmira At least Andersonville didn't make money off the suffering. They did their best under the conditions presented. The north just didnt' give a damn about the prisoners of war.
25% of the prisoners in elmira died of starvation or disease.
Uhmm SEcondly the southerners were not allowed to vote for many years after the north moved in. And unfortunately the south had no choice but to defend itself from the north as the north started the war. Acutally it wasn't that women couldn't vote, if i remember right, only property owners could vote which i dont' disagree with.
Right now i am worn out from working on hives and am a bit tired from the venom. 20 -30 stings gets me tired quick. if you want to find out more about the loss of voting, and the restrictions on the veterans in the south preventing them from memorializing their fallen, then do a google search for it. It will bring up a wealth of information taht the text books refused to print.
Thank God we got some common sense people in texas that have voted to put all this back into the history books. All the liberals down there are fit to be tied now....
I'm sorry you have to put up with so many stings! Your bees must not love you yet. Shame on them. If you honestly think only land owners should vote you are going to have a LOT of seniors mad at you! ;D
Quote from: Diane Amberg on May 30, 2010, 12:02:23 PM
I'm sorry you have to put up with so many stings! Your bees must not love you yet. Shame on them. If you honestly think only land owners should vote you are going to have a LOT of seniors mad at you! ;D
Well probably so. :) My bees love me but their pmsy right now.
PMSY? I thought only one could be that way....ya got swishey workers? Sorry, that was in poor taste...but still funny.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on May 30, 2010, 06:22:55 PM
PMSY? I thought only one could be that way....ya got swishey workers? Sorry, that was in poor taste...but still funny.
Well being that honey bees are female, i guess they are swishy.
Well I guess that joke went nowhere. ;D I thought only the queen was a true female and could have PMS . If they are all female, where do the baby bees come from? ( I know, I know, drones.) You were supposed to say the bee hospital.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on May 30, 2010, 08:13:31 PM
Well I guess that joke went nowhere. ;D I thought only the queen was a true female and could have PMS . If they are all female, where do the baby bees come from? ( I know, I know, drones.) You were supposed to say the bee hospital.
that would be the combital
You are no fun at all! ;D My friend, another Dianne, different spelling, is a bee person, or was until the throat mites got 'em. We are just starting to see wild bees again here. I assume you got your nap and feel better now?
Quote from: Diane Amberg on May 30, 2010, 08:35:48 PM
You are no fun at all! ;D My friend, another Dianne, different spelling, is a bee person, or was until the throat mites got 'em. We are just starting to see wild bees again here. I assume you got your nap and feel better now?
uhggg trachial mites. Dust em with powder sugar to get rid of them i think....
OOps nope use mint, thyme oil and crisco to get rid of trachial mites. The powder sugar gets rid of varroa
Diane, what are the opportunities that you are referring? If you'll describe the opportunities
for urban blacks, I'll try to give you my opinion.
Obviosuly, you support the northern defeat of the South. That defeat is the basis for changing America
from what the founding fathers intended for us.
I agree with the South and it's stand for the Constitution and for the founding fathers.
Red, I'd support anything that would stop anybody from "owning" another human as property, no matter what it took. 'Way back when, I had family that raised cotton in Alabama and they didn't need or want to use slaves to do it. It's just wrong, 'nuff said.
I know there was much more to it than that and politics was huge, but the slavery thing would be enough for me.
As far as "opportunities," people will say that minorities have the same chance to get an education and better themselves as everybody else and they are too lazy to do it. It's not quite that simple, but there are indeed some who are lazy and feel entitled just as some whites do. As with any group there are many, many minorities who work hard, and improve with every generation without reliving the hardships of the past and boo hooing at every chance about how they were unfairly picked on. Of course it did happen, if not here, in the countries they, almost all of us, came from. The Irish, Scots, Poles, Slavs, White Russian Jews, Eastern European immigrants and so on all have stories they could tell. At some point one has to just take a deep breath and push on. If one gets mired in their own history, one can't go forward. Learn about it sure, but don't let it consume you. IMHO It will be nice to hear your opinion for a change. Go for it.
funny isn't it that the north was not opposed to slavery, and didn't stop it and the south was working to eliminate slavery. Go figure.
Lee was a abolitionist, as well as several other leaders in the south, but when lincoln supposedly freed the slaves, it did not include northern slaves. It only targeted the slaves of a free and independent sovereign nation.