Author Topic: Saddler/Saddler Sergeant impressions  (Read 13729 times)

Offline Old Top

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 898
Re: Saddler/Saddler Sergeant impressions
« Reply #25 on: July 12, 2006, 12:32:52 am »
River City John,

I am working on the Camel Corps idea, or at least starting there.

Old Top
I only shoot to support my reloading habit.

Offline St. George

  • Deputy Marshal
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4618
  • NCOWS , GAF, B.O.L.D., Order of St. George, SOCOM,
Re: Saddler/Saddler Sergeant impressions
« Reply #26 on: July 12, 2006, 10:34:47 am »
Given the fact that the Army never had a 'Camel Corps' - the history of the affair is still interesting.

It was a short-lived, pre-Civil War experiment - and was carried out on contract.

For your reference:

There are good and bad descriptions of the Camel story.

The 'Good':

'A Bibliography of the Camel', California Historical Society Quarterly, December 1930. '

'Camels in California' - Gray - California Historical Society Quarterly, March 1930.

' Uncle Sam's Camels', the Journal of May H. Stacey, 1929 - Lewis B. Lesley (ed.),

 'The Story of El Teion, 1942.' - Woodard - A very incomplete and undocumented work.

'The U.S. Camel Corps, an Army Experiment' - Faulk - Oxford University Press, 1976. A readable but sloppy work. The section an the far west is filled with errors.

'The Camel: its Evolution, Ecology, Behavior, and Relationship to Man' - Gauthiers-Pilters and Dagg - University of Chicago Press, Chicago, IL, 1981

'Uncle Sam's Camels: the Journal of May Humphreys Stacey - supplemented by the Report of Edward Fitzgerald Beale' - Lesley - (ed.) - Harvard University Press, Cambridge, MA, 1929

'Camels for Uncle Sam' - Yancey - Hendrick-Long Publishing Co., Dallas, TX, 1995

The 'Bad':

'Unique History of Fort Tejon' - Howard - Journal of the West. A mythical account; almost nothing is factual.

'Camels To California' - Fowler - 1950.  A cut and paste rip-off of history published by Stanford University.

'Camels in the West' -  Robertson - 1979. Riddled with errors.
'Drum Barracks and the Camel Corps' - booklet -California History Commission -  hilarious collection of errors, mistakes, and folklore.

The 'Official':

Camel File, Quartermaster Dept., R.G. 92, U.S. National Archives (USNA), Washington, D.C.
Letters Sent and Received, Quartermaster Dept., Dept. of the Pacific
Letters Sent and Received, Hdqtrs., Dept. of the Pacific, in R.G. 92 and 393, USNA.
Letters Received, Sec. of War, 1856-1864, R.G. 107, USNA

And since you're already reading - an interesting tale to go along with the above.

'The Red Ghost'  - Froman - American Heritage, XII (April 1961), pp. 35-37 and 94-98

Vaya,

Scouts Out!


« Last Edit: July 12, 2006, 10:48:10 am by St. George »
"It Wasn't Cowboys and Ponies - It Was Horses and Men.
It Wasn't Schoolboys and Ladies - It Was Cowtowns and Sin..."

Offline Old Top

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 898
Re: Saddler/Saddler Sergeant impressions
« Reply #27 on: July 12, 2006, 10:58:36 am »
St. George,

Thank You for the references, I beleive that I have read a couple of the "good" and some of the "bad". I will have to check the rest out.

Old Top
I only shoot to support my reloading habit.

Offline Blackey Cole

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 110
Re: Saddler/Saddler Sergeant impressions
« Reply #28 on: July 12, 2006, 11:28:58 am »
Right now my uniform consists of the following: Cotton Navy pullover button shirts with two button pockets and button cuffs(from Coon Creek), Sky blue pants with lemon yellow strip of the width for a NCO.(from Coon Creek) the pants have a zipper and belt loops.  My hat are the Navy Blue Kepi with the brass crossed Sabres and a 5 in the uppper V.  and a buff/sand slouch hat with the same hat brass.  The boots are black 18' Oak Tree boots no dog ears, elastic tops(required for my large calves).  I have a sabre belt with a NCO sabre attached by a Walking rig and a 1863 ammo box. The shirts have Saddler Sgt chevrons on them, I also have a couple of navy blue pull over bib shirts with lemon yellow piping also from Coon Creek with the Saddler Sgt Chevrons.  My guns I shoot are ruger Bisley Vaquero either BCH or SS( depends on my mood and Wx), my rifle is a 73 Deluxe Border Rifle, and my Shotgun is usualy a Baikal single trigger long barrel SxS.  I also have a 1885 flap holster that I wear in custome with either my brass frame Navy pistole or my blck plastic colt 1873 blue gun.

Do I qualify?
SASS, NRA, NMSA
NRA  RSO
SASS RO II
Gaming Gunfighter in Training

Offline Pitspitr

  • Deputy Marshal
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4012
  • 308 214-0082 45551 Rd 816, Sargent NE 68874 USA
    • Grand Army of the Frontier
Re: Saddler/Saddler Sergeant impressions
« Reply #29 on: July 12, 2006, 04:26:49 pm »
Blackey
As was said before there are NO uniform requirements. All you need is an intrest in the victorian era military, so yes you qualify. Now as to the uniform; if, as time goes by, you have the interest and the means to improve your impression I would highly encourage you to do so. Not because it isn't good enough for the GAF, but because (for me anyway) it feels good to to work towards something (in this case historical accuracy) that's is a little more challenging. If you choose to upgrade your uniform I'll be glad to assist you in any way I can. And for starters let me offer this piece of advice.(and you know what they say about the value of free advice).
When buying your uniform and equipment, buy the most historically accurate you can. The reason is that while you may not be interested in reenacting now, you may be in the future. When I started reenacting I wasn't interested in joining the General Miles Marching and Chowder Society. After a while I did decide to join and had to replace some of my equipment to meet their standards. This forced me to spend more money. In reality some of our approved sources are actually less expensive than buying that item off the shelf at a sutler. Check with the GMMCS for approved sources for the IWP gear or good CW reinactment group for CW gear. Their always happy to help a new guy.
Oh BTW, check in with Sagebrush Burns. He'd be your department commander should you decide to join the GAF
« Last Edit: July 12, 2006, 04:28:37 pm by Pitspitr »
I remain, Your Ob'd Servant,
Jerry M. "Pitspitr" Davenport
(Bvt.)Brigadier General Commanding,
Grand Army of the Frontier
BC/IT, Expert, Sharpshooter, Marksman, CC, SoM
NRA CRSO, RVWA IIT2; SASS ROI, ROII;
NRA Patron Life; AZSA Life; NCOWS Life

Offline Pawnee Bill

  • Very Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 90
Re: Saddler/Saddler Sergeant impressions
« Reply #30 on: July 12, 2006, 05:19:05 pm »
When buying your uniform and equipment, buy the most historically accurate you can. The reason is that while you may not be interested in reenacting now, you may be in the future. When I started reenacting I wasn't interested in joining the General Miles Marching and Chowder Society.
A little off topic but!!!
 Who do you reccomend for a 5 button Blouse?
 I got a real nice Tate 1858 but can't find anything in a 5 button but cheep of the rackers in purple" Barney" cloth.
Thank You
Pawnee Bill

Offline Pitspitr

  • Deputy Marshal
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4012
  • 308 214-0082 45551 Rd 816, Sargent NE 68874 USA
    • Grand Army of the Frontier
Re: Saddler/Saddler Sergeant impressions
« Reply #31 on: July 12, 2006, 06:07:45 pm »
A little off topic but!!!
 Who do you reccomend for a 5 button Blouse?
 I got a real nice Tate 1858 but can't find anything in a 5 button but cheep of the rackers in purple" Barney" cloth.
Thank You
Pawnee Bill
Mine is a Connie Lindemier, but as far as I know she's out of business. Right now Joyce Gabriel is making them but has a fairly long waiting list and is having trouble finding the right cloth since Family Heirloom Weavers quit making it. The IWP is tough as the market isn't big enough to keep people interested in supplying it.
About the picture the caption reads:"124. Sergeant Charles N. Loynes, Seventh U.S. Infantry, bedecked his 1876 campaign hat with full insignia and hat cord, a rare occurence. Loynes was a veteran of the Battle of the Big Hole, August 9, 1877."
It would appear to have been taken post-1881 as in it he wears the later model 5 button blouse without piping.
I remain, Your Ob'd Servant,
Jerry M. "Pitspitr" Davenport
(Bvt.)Brigadier General Commanding,
Grand Army of the Frontier
BC/IT, Expert, Sharpshooter, Marksman, CC, SoM
NRA CRSO, RVWA IIT2; SASS ROI, ROII;
NRA Patron Life; AZSA Life; NCOWS Life

Offline Pawnee Bill

  • Very Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 90
Re: Saddler/Saddler Sergeant impressions
« Reply #32 on: July 12, 2006, 06:36:07 pm »
Mine is a Connie Lindemier, but as far as I know she's out of business. Right now Joyce Gabriel is making them but has a fairly long waiting list and is having trouble finding the right cloth since Family Heirloom Weavers quit making it. The IWP is tough as the market isn't big enough to keep people interested in supplying it.
About the picture the caption reads:"124. Sergeant Charles N. Loynes, Seventh U.S. Infantry, bedecked his 1876 campaign hat with full insignia and hat cord, a rare occurence. Loynes was a veteran of the Battle of the Big Hole, August 9, 1877."
It would appear to have been taken post-1881 as in it he wears the later model 5 button blouse without piping.
Thanks Pard
 Especialy for the picture credit . That is in fact a rare one.
Cheers
Pawnee Bill

Offline Blackey Cole

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 110
Re: Saddler/Saddler Sergeant impressions
« Reply #33 on: July 12, 2006, 07:51:09 pm »
if you need leather let me know I have several references and a few patterns for the CW era.  I made some SASS hoslters that looked like they came from the a863 flap holster but it was lined with metal and leather so they would retain their shape.  I made the for the runner in the military custome contest at Mulecamp this year.  Just let me know what you need and this Saddler Sgt will make it at a good price.  Authernic unlined stuff is fairly inexpensive as it doesn't require as much leather or effort.
SASS, NRA, NMSA
NRA  RSO
SASS RO II
Gaming Gunfighter in Training