Author Topic: Advice Needed on Scout Persona  (Read 3920 times)

Offline TIZWIN

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Advice Needed on Scout Persona
« on: March 03, 2006, 09:53:49 am »
Hello to my new pards here.  I'm looking for advice on developing a CAS persona.  I aspire to a civilian Scout for the Army, circa 1865-1872, in the New Mexico/Arizona territories.  I have some gear already--Colt 2nd gen 1st model Dragoon (with R&D cylinder) in a Rick Bachman slim jim, a Cimmaron Army Remington (Kirst cylinder) in a cross draw holster.  Waiting on a pistol/sabre belt with 1851 plate and leather thimbles.  I've got a Rossi 12 ga. Overland.  Unfortunately, my current longarm is a very nice Navy Arms stainless 92 carbine.  Good gun, but only right if you're in a sixities Hollywood Western.  I'm saving up for a Cimmaron Henry.

Any thoughts on clothing and other accoutrements?  Boss of the Plains hat or Mexican Sombrero?  Mixture of Army issue clothing and civilian, or strictly civilian? I've got a real nice Cold Steel Stag Handeled Bowie that I want to put in a fur trapper type belt-over tacked sheath.  Would that be right for the southwest?  Cavalry boots or Apache boots?  The persona I envision is at least half or maybe quarter breed Apache.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Offline Forty Rod

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Re: Advice Needed on Scout Persona
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2006, 11:56:36 am »
I'd go with a mix of frontier civilian and cast off Army clothing.

Army coat and cavalry boots with a battered slouch hat, checkered shirt, dark red bandana, corduroy or wool striped pants, sldier's pants, drover's gloves, etc.  Apache style mocs are good and can be comfortable.  They often don't hols up well to extended use, though.

Straw hats were popular, but I don't recall seeing many sombreros.  An Apache style head cloth/bandana would be good but doesn't protect you much from the sun.

Like the real scouts did, use what's available to you and get rid of anything that isn't useful.  Avoid shiny and noisy items: buckles, badges, spurs, bright metal and bright colors.

Go with the Bowie.  I like mine, but want a different sheath for it.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2006, 12:01:00 pm by Forty Rod »
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Offline Luke MacGillie

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Re: Advice Needed on Scout Persona
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2006, 02:12:45 pm »
When it comes to white scouts ive not come up with a whole lot of information, and most of what I have found covers Forsythes scouts, and can document almost "Wild West" show style buckskins to even Sailors uniforms being worn.  Since your in the Southwest, jackets tended to follow the Mexican style, being short, as opposed to the longer styles worn in the northern plains.




Offline US Scout

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Re: Advice Needed on Scout Persona
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2006, 06:31:53 pm »
Bear in mind that soldiers were not held in high regard back then.  Contrary to what Hollywood would have you believe, most men would not wear military clothing if they didn't have to, because no self-respecting man wanted to be associated with the Army, no matter how he may have felt about his service.  Even officers were considered parasites on the public treasury, only in the military because they lacked ability and ambition to be successful elsewhere.

There are a number of photographs of white scouts in charge of Apache scouts.  They pretty much dress like any other frontiersman of the time.

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Offline El Confederado

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Re: Advice Needed on Scout Persona
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2006, 05:47:37 pm »
Well pard, I have seen pics of my great great grandfather , who was a scout for some time after the War of Northern Agression and in most of the pics, he was dressed much like the bushwacker he was during the war.Alot of leather, civilian dress for the most part and in his case a Confederate kepi, hehehehe.
Colonel J.M." El Confederado" Rodriguez II,
Former Commander Department of the Pacific,GAF
Major,8th Texas Cavalry,*Colonel,1st Louisiana Zouaves" Coppens Zouaves",*Capt, 1st Louisiana Zouave Cavalry
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Offline Ottawa Creek Bill

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Re: Advice Needed on Scout Persona
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2006, 06:53:33 pm »
Tizwin,
Stay away from the sombrero, if you want a hat that was worn by the white scouts go with a good straw repro, a good quality cavalry slouch hat that has had the S&*t beat out of it, or a BOA and repeat the previous intructions. If by any chance you served in the Civil War, you could still be wearing that hat as a civilian scout under contract, particularly on what you are getting paid. And as far as foot wear stay away from the moccassins unless you know somebody that can make a pair of moccassins the way they were made back then. Most so called Apache moccassins you see sold today are not (Apache moccassins, or even close)!

A good pair of cav boots with low heals will do you good and last a long time if you get a good pair. Fall Creek Suttlery can fix you up for $175.00. A hand made pair of real moccassins will cost you twice that.

On the photos, watch out for posed photos and double check the dates...If the subects look too clean that should be a indication to use caution. The time life book is great but, the book "To Live and Die in the Old West" is better and covers the area of interest you mentioned, check Amazon. Get rid of the 92, if you get a Henry get the 1860 Uberti Henry and not the Big Boy, it is a non-gun as far as historical accuracy goes. Check out this photo: that is me on the left, note the mocassins.....that is what they should look like. Hope this helps.

By the way, how did you come to choose the name "Tizwin"? Oh, one more question, are you an NCOWS member? If not, you should be, it would be great to have a posse of nothing but scouts that has all their gear documented...something to think about.. ;)

Bill
« Last Edit: March 09, 2006, 07:05:07 pm by Ottawa Creek Bill »
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Offline Ottawa Creek Bill

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Re: Advice Needed on Scout Persona
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2006, 06:57:28 pm »
Fred Jr.
That is a great looking avatar, who made your Gustoweh?

Bill
Vice Chairman American Indian Council of Indianapolis
Vice Chairman Inter tribal Council of Indiana
Member, Ottawa-Chippewa Band of Indians of Michigan
SASS # 2434
NCOWS # 2140
CMSA # 3119
NRA LIFER


Offline TIZWIN

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Re: Advice Needed on Scout Persona
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2006, 02:06:34 pm »
Thanks to all for the responses.  Ottawa Creek Bill--first, I thank you for your service way back when, and welcome home.  I also thank you for the advice on the moccassins especially.  The ones in your photo are exactly what I'm after.  Where did you get them?  I have absolutely no intention whatsoever to buy a so-called Henry Big Boy.  Historical accuracy is one of my main concerns.  I intend to join NCOWS soon. 

When I joined SASS recently, I took the alias "Tizwin" from my interest in Apache culture, and as a reminder to myself that I am a recovering alcoholic.  As Ringo Starr sang, "I got tired of waking up on the floor."

Blessings to all.

Offline Ottawa Creek Bill

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Re: Advice Needed on Scout Persona
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2006, 04:35:57 pm »
Quote
When I joined SASS recently, I took the alias "Tizwin" from my interest in Apache culture, and as a reminder to myself that I am a recovering alcoholic.  As Ringo Starr sang, "I got tired of waking up on the floor."
Interesting....and pretty outstanding!!

The mocs I made, you've heard the old adage that an Old Indian taught me how" well, in this case that is true. An old Indian Lady long since gone to her ancestors by the name of Estel Castoreno (Mescalero Apache) taught me and my daughter how to make them....but I don't sell them..
Tizwin...a question..why would someone like yourself who is interested in historical accuracy join a group like SASS? When I joined it was the only game in town. NCOWS is looking for folks like yourself if you are interested...

Bill
Vice Chairman American Indian Council of Indianapolis
Vice Chairman Inter tribal Council of Indiana
Member, Ottawa-Chippewa Band of Indians of Michigan
SASS # 2434
NCOWS # 2140
CMSA # 3119
NRA LIFER


Offline Luke MacGillie

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Re: Advice Needed on Scout Persona
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2006, 11:13:10 pm »
Fred Jr.
That is a great looking avatar, who made your Gustoweh?

Bill

Thanks!

I cant remember the guys name, about my age, lives up in Michigan.  Its a copy of the Caldwell headress.