Best way to reconstitute severely clumped Goex Pinnacle?

[River City John]

I checked the past posts here in The Powder Room for several pages back and the only information offered was to shake the hell out of the canister to break it up.

Short of throwing it against the wall, or dropping it from a forty story building, my three cans of ffg are NOT breaking up to a measurable powder. The clump is solid.

Any solutions? I am trying to reload for a match this coming weekend . . .

I'm not too keen on subjecting them to high impact, for obvious safety reasons. I tried a wooden spoon handle and a dowel to manually break apart the clump, but it was not cooperating.
And I hesitate to use an ice pick . . .

Thanks,
RCJ

[Marshal Halloway]

RCJ, I think you've reached the point where I'd stop trying to save it.

If this were lightly caked powder that loosened with gentle shaking, that would be one thing. But if you've got a genuinely solid mass that won't come apart with normal handling, I wouldn't start escalating to dowels, hammers, ice picks, grinders, etc. 

Even f you mechanically crush a solid cake, you may no longer have anything resembling consistent FFg granulation.

Definitely retire the ice pick.

[Abilene]

I have zero idea if this would work or not, but if you are going to toss it anyway?...add some water to help break it up, then filter it to drain the water and let the rest evaporate.  Won't help you before this coming weekend, though!

Oh wait, this is Pinnacle (APP), not black powder.  Well, might work anyway.

[River City John]

Thank you, Gentlemen.

[Cap'n Redneck]

Is the powder stored in a tin (steel) can or a plastic can?

If in a plastic can I would have tried to squeeze it in a vise to break up the clump...

A plastic can could also be cut open with a sharp knife to get at the clumped powder.

If it's stored in a metal can I'd also suggest soaking the can and content before applying brute force.

[Hair Trigger Jim]

The people who make the homemade version of Pinnacle/APP/ascorbic acid powder literally grind it up in a ball mill.
(Lots of discussion here: https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?464557-My-homemade-Golden-powder!)

It's not a terribly sensitive powder (I've read reports of people being unable to get the APP family of powders to ignite in a flintlock).  Personally, I wouldn't be too worried about a little rough activity.  And I'm a pretty cautious person generally.

If it were actual black powder, I'd probably be more concerned.

I think you're in the Omaha area unless I remember wrong.  I'd be happy to pick it up sometime and try grinding it up for you.  But it could be a while before that would actually happen, and I don't make it there very often, even though I'm only a couple hours away.  So that's no help for this weekend.

[River City John]

Thanks Hair Trigger for the kind offer.

I have other smokeless powders to fall back on. My Pards are used to me shooting mixed rounds in a match from time to time. Sometimes they go pop, sometimes they go BOOM. It's entertaining.

RCJ

[Lucky R. K.]

A typical problem with APP, it absorbs water like a sponge even with the lid tightened to the max. I finally stopped buying it. What I did to make it useable was to dump it into a Tupperware bowl, digging the clumps out  with a pointed end stick. I then crushed the lumps into a more useable texture with the handle of a hammer and put it back into the plastic bottle. The only reason I would ever use it again is that it was the only choice available. Maybe The Maker Of Coffins will offer an opinion, he is the poster boy for APP.
Lucky 

[Coffinmaker]

  Well Dang

I admit I am some surprised by your quandary.  I have never encountered APP that badly clumped although I am not familiar with the specific formulation of Goex Pinnacle.  And I have APP that has been around for a really LONG time with no more than minor clumping, easily returned to granules.  Properly stored, mine has lasted years without problems.

I also don't know how truly impact sensitive Goex Pinnacle is.  If I were unable to return it to granulation I do believe I'd just write it off.  Although you could also contact the manufacturer of APP for suggestions??

[River City John]

Well there you go, Coffinmaker, trying to confuse the issue by introducing logic into the mix.


 

[wildman1]

One problem I have encountered with old APP was it seemed to get very large amounts of very fine dust in it and was very quick to get the guns very dirty. Almost as bad as some of the old cheaper BP brands.
 May have been from shaking or breaking up clumps.
wM1
PS I did not try socking it altho I think I will before loading any more into cartridges.

[Coffinmaker]

  Ah Well

Sorry R C J.,  I actually had a couple of other thoughts about what to do with a bottle of APP that's just one big clump, but since I don't know how it would react, I just kept it to myself.

WILDMAN:  The really OLD formulations of APP were quite dusty out of the bottle.  Sufficiently dusty to be a real nuisance to run thru a powder measure.  If dipping, the dust isn't really a problem in cartridges but the dust will foul a DILLON powder measure toot sweet.  The current formulations run thru a measure with no problem (except 2f, which doesn't).

[OklaTom]

RCJ,

I have been loading Pinnacle for around 20 years. In fact, if you got the powder from Yuma, it came from me originally. It is a pain because it is really old. But its efficacy remains, even though time has clumped into the shape of the inside of the plastic bottle.

Here is what I do. Works every time. First I take a 1/2" wooden dowel and stir the top to break up the first couple of inches. I pour that out into a pan or measuring cup to make more room in the bottle to work. I poke a sharpened wood dowel into the big clump left and break it into small enough clumps that they will come out of the bottle. Those clumps I hold over the pan and just crush them up with my hand. They will come apart easily without producing a lot of the fine powder once they are free of the restricting forces of the bottle. Once I have all the small clumps crunched back up by hand, I pour the powder back into the bottle. It has never clumped up on me again before I use the bottle up. The whole process has taken me around 10 minutes to "free up" a bottle.

See you at the match, brother.

[River City John]

RCJ,

I have been loading Pinnacle for around 20 years. In fact, if you got the powder from Yuma, it came from me originally. It is a pain because it is really old. But its efficacy remains, even though time has clumped into the shape of the inside of the plastic bottle.

Here is what I do. Works every time. First I take a 1/2" wooden dowel and stir the top to break up the first couple of inches. I pour that out into a pan or measuring cup to make more room in the bottle to work. I poke a sharpened wood dowel into the big clump left and break it into small enough clumps that they will come out of the bottle. Those clumps I hold over the pan and just crush them up with my hand. They will come apart easily without producing a lot of the fine powder once they are free of the restricting forces of the bottle. Once I have all the small clumps crunched back up by hand, I pour the powder back into the bottle. It has never clumped up on me again before I use the bottle up. The whole process has taken me around 10 minutes to "free up" a bottle.

See you at the match, brother.

I was able to open up one of the other bottles and there was enough loose to load for the match, although most of it, too, was tightly clumped. I plan to shoot up my harlequin boxes of leftover ammo.
Some will pop, others will BOOM.
Looking forward to seeing all the Texans, the Kansans, the Missourians . . . heck, everyone.
I hope your shoulder cooperates. Please don't try to tough it out and really screw it up. Our targets are not difficult to hit with revolver, especially for a prime pistolero such as yourself.

Drive carefully, watch out for wandering buffalo.

[Coffinmaker]

  Well

That certainly puts paid to the fun solutions I was dreaming up.  Oh well.

OklaTom:  Sounds like you and I started using APP/Pinnacle at about the same point in time.  I've been a Poster Kid for APP just about forever.  I use 3f thru the Dillon for cartridges and 2f dipped for shotgun.  Marvelous stuff.

[Coffinmaker]

  River City John

OK!!  It's been long enough.  What was yer solution??  Weak and enquiring minds wanna know 

[River City John]

River City John

OK!!  It's been long enough.  What was yer solution??  Weak and enquiring minds wanna know 

I had enough loose, between multiple containers, to load for the match.
I think I'll try to liquefy that solid packed container somehow, pour it out on a baking sheet to dry, then break it up. Might work, might not.

[OklaTom]

I had enough loose, between multiple containers, to load for the match.
I think I'll try to liquefy that solid packed container somehow, pour it out on a baking sheet to dry, then break it up. Might work, might not.

John, I'm not sure you can water it to break it up. It's an ammonia based"explosive and soaking it may change its ignition properties. Just use a screwdriver to break it into chunks small enough to get out through the jar lid then put those on your baking sheet and crumble them up by hand. That's the best option for granulating it again.