BP lube in hollow bullet base?

[Abilene]

I'm sure someone has tried this at some point?  I have a few different hollow-base bullet styles from Bear Creek (these are all .38's).  These do not have lube grooves.  Has anyone ever put BP lube in the hollow base?  I'm thinking the pressure of the gasses will force the lube out of the base while travelling down the bore to lube it but I'm not sure. 

Contamination of the powder would be something to watch out for (don't let the ammo sit around after loading and keep it out of the heat).  I asked Steve at Bear Creek if he knew of anyone doing it, he said no but he had thought about it, and maybe using paper wad for a barrier between the powder and lube, but I think that would keep the lube inside the base when fired. I know some people have used lube cookies with a wad between powder and cookie, and some of the cookie tended to stay attached to the bottom of the bullet as it left the bore. 

I mainly have these bullets for a .36 converted to .38 with an unlined bore, and I usually use unlubed bullets anyway in pistol BP ammo, lubing over the bullet at the loading table like some C&B do, but this might be a nice option.  As I get older I become ever more ready to learn from the experience of others rather than experiment myself. 

Note to Coffinmaker: yeah, I know that APP doesn't care about lube.  That's why I started using it in my 32-20 rifle 

[Sedalia Dave]

Be interested to know how this works. I would think that some sort of barrier between the powder and lube would be required to prevent contamination.

I've found that just putting lube over the bullet in the chamber of the first round fired is sufficient to keep my C&B pistols functioning for 6 stages without making them all greasy from excess lube.

Should be just as effective for your application.

[Ranch 13]

Just punch a wad from wax paper or a playing card put it between the powder and bullet base works well

[Abilene]

Ranch13, I'd be afraid that almost any card wad might prevent the lube from squishing out of the hollow base.  Wax paper?  Hmm, that's a thought.

I was thinking about keeping them in the fridge. 

Dave, that's what I've been doing for 25 years.     Butter flavored Crisco over the first two rounds.  And frankly, that's probably what I'll keep doing. It's too easy.

[Coffinmaker]

   Abilene 

I don't see it as a practical do-able.  Without some form of wad, the "burn" and pressure are going to blow the lube out of the base almost, if not immediately.  I would guess, the Lube would be blown away or turned to gas before the bullet exited the throat.  If some form of wad, sufficient to seal the gas away from the bullet, it would trap and contain the lube in the hollow cavity.

Of course, I'm going to mention my much simpler solution.  In my 1851 .36 Cal guns with un-lined  bores, I use hollow base wadcutters, but, well you know, I simply use APP which needs no lube.  I found them (HBWC) to be sufficiently accurate for our game and so so so so much easier to load.  Ran 'em thru my Dillon lickty split.  No muss, no fuss, no gooey stuff, just real simple.  Try it.  Yule like it.  Burma Shave

Did I mention APP??  Oh Ya, APP ist gesund!! You Betcha

[Abilene]

I've tried the HBWC (with smokeless) and they work fine in the '61 w/Kirst.  They will not chamber in any of my '51 R-M's because of the bullet profile since I don't load them flush.  So I do now have both 125gr and 150gr hollow base round nose bullets which would allow the cartridges to be used in any pistols that I wish.  I'll probably just lube over the bullet like before.  No way I will use APP in pistols or shotgun, I would miss the flame (and boomier boom) too much.

[Ranch 13]

Ranch13, I'd be afraid that almost any card wad might prevent the lube from squishing out of the hollow base.  Wax paper?  Hmm, that's a thought.

I was thinking about keeping them in the fridge. 

Dave, that's what I've been doing for 25 years.     Butter flavored Crisco over the first two rounds.  And frankly, that's probably what I'll keep doing. It's too easy.

Your fear is totally unfounded. Some of us were doing that long before modern day cowboy action shooting became a thing

[Drydock]

Potential for powder contamination, uneven distribution of lube and/or a cocked wad in the hollow base causes flyers. Past point blank range, not worth it.  HB bullets should always be seated directly on the powder, no lube in the base, no wad.

[Black River Smith]

So I do now have both 125gr and 150gr hollow base round nose bullets which would allow the cartridges to be used in any pistols that I wish.

Abilene,

Are these 125 & 150 grain bullets bought from a supplier or What bullet molds, did you buy?  I could use a hollow-base mold for 38 at 150 grains.

I was able to make a 44 hollow-base from a Lee mold but that smaller 38 is just harder to properly accomplish for me.

PS -  I just lubed the 44's by hand with a popsicle stick and soft lube.  I could do 50 at a sitting but that was all before the hands got tired.  Not a production  process.

[Abilene]

Howdy BRS - these hollow base bullets are from

https://www.bearcreeksupplybullets.com

I have an old Lyman Lubrisizer, but these have no lube grooves.  The 150gr bullet is an addition listed at the bottom of their bullet selection page.  The 125gr is not listed on their page, I found out they make that for some certain distributors so had to ask for it.  They also list a 105gr hollow base but that has thick skirts and is not designed to expand.  That one is hollow base just to make the bullet longer to help feed in rifles.

[Montana Slim]

Yes, you can put lube in the base. Yes, it will "melt" on the unfired cartridges in the cylinder as the firing begins. Likely not a big deal as it won't have time to degrade the powder. Lubing over the top of the rounds is feasible. I use this with C&B and will add for 44 cartridges during exceptionally dry conditions. I do that by adding a small dab of lube to the front of the chambers before loading (less messy & I'm not rotating cylinder with rounds present). These all work okay. Try em all & see what you like.

HB wadcutter in revolvers? - my Dad had a pile of revolvers to use those. Some brief experience with lube in the base, but he's just not into cleaning from BP 😕

Now, as they say,  for something completely different 😳

On a lark, I "borrowed" one of my Dad's Pietta Navy (375 bore Howell gated conversion) revolvers after a cowboy match. It was clean - he had not fired it that day. I had ammo left from the day, 38 spl black powder with 120 gr "big lube" (sized 359 - for my Uberti RM Navies). Why not try my theory that it should be good enough for "cowboy" distances. I engaged pistol & rifle targets on several stages without miss. With no one else on the range, we stepped back as far as possible making the furthest targets about 30 yds. Again, no problems hitting targets. The steel targets used were no larger than 17" square, some were referred to as the "little" cowboys - on a plate rack (aka the "Malone gang").

One note regarding the revolver tested, it has a full length 7 1/2" barrel which helps constrain the dispersion of the undersize balls passing thru.

I would not hesitate using those full bore Navies with said ammunition at a SASS match. Of course I would immediately cast blame on it for any targets missed,  including rifle or shotgun 😆

FWIW

[Black River Smith]

Howdy BRS - these hollow base bullets are from

https://www.bearcreeksupplybullets.com

I have an old Lyman Lubrisizer, but these have no lube grooves.  The 150gr bullet is an addition listed at the bottom of their bullet selection page.  The 125gr is not listed on their page, I found out they make that for some certain distributors so had to ask for it.  They also list a 105gr hollow base but that has thick skirts and is not designed to expand.  That one is hollow base just to make the bullet longer to help feed in rifles.

Thanks for the info.... may have to look into those.

[Griff]

I believe that your lube will exit the hollow base as soon as pressure starts to build, long before the bullet even reaches the cylinder gap, where much of it will exit to the atmosphere, leaving little to coat the barrel.  If you use a wad, something stiffer than wax paper or playing card would help.  For my cartridge shooting, I used to cut my wad for my grease cookies out of waxed card milk containers.  But, these were for rifles, either my main match 45 Colt lever guns or single shot BP rifles, and none used hollow base bullets.  So, it's strictly theory on my part.

[Navy Six]

I tried it some years ago in a pair of Uberti 51 Navies with Kirst/38LC. The bullets were from a Rapine mold that had a deep hollow base with thin skirts. I've never seen another pistol mold that had a similar hollow base. I did use a milk card wad on top of the powder and SPG was packed in the base. Seem to work OK but I never tested it extensively as the molds(I have a pair) were single cavity and it took a while to cast up enough for Cowboy Shooting. I still have the molds and now with more time on my hands, maybe I will try this out again.