Factory loaded 45 Colt black powder Kieth style

[LonesomePigeon]

Just curious, prior to World War II was there ever any factory loaded .45 Colt ammunition that was loaded with black powder and a Kieth style semi-wadcutter?

[Coffinmaker]

   Actually, I have NO clue     Why??  Just curious??

[StrawHat]

I have read that Keith stated many times if he were to be restricted to just one factory cartridge for his revolvers, it would be the Remington black powder 45 Colt cartridge. I believe it was 250ish grains with a rounded profile and a tiny meplat.

Kevin

[LonesomePigeon]

Coffinmaker, the reason why is I got the MP Molds 454-423 and it works so good with black powder it made me curious if they ever loaded it commercially.

Sometime in the late 1920's Elmer Kieth designed the Lyman #454423 245 grain bullet for the .45 Auto Rim and the Lyman #454424 255 grain bullet for the .45 Colt. These are semi-wadcutters with a wide meplat, a crimp groove and one big, square lube groove.

The late 1920's was well into the smokeless era so I doubt they ever offered these bullets with black powder.

[LonesomePigeon]

The MP Molds 454-423 245 grain bullet over 35 grains of Goex 3F. Six shots at 15 yards, rested.

[Niederlander]

That would seem to be a keeper!  (Both gun and load.)

[Coffinmaker]

  YEPPER 

Definitely a Keeper fer sure.  Ah, fer BOTH you betcha

[DeaconKC]

Very nice!

[John44]

 Having pored over pre ww2 ammunition catalogs that were viewable on Cartridge collectors website before they made you sign up to see them. Remington offered .45 black powder 250gr right up to the second war, as did most of the the other manufacturers. Remington stands alone because they were the only ones offering a full 40gr charge. This was along side with 35gr, 30gr, gallery(20gr?) and smokeless loadings. The other makers seemed to max out at 35grs. Then there's the entirely forgotten simi-smokeless or "bulk" smokeless loadings. Nitrocellulose made with extra pulp so as to be loaded by volume like black powder while being "cleaner" burning. These seem to have run 1900ish to the mid '20s before "real" smokeless displaced them. The only factory Keith style loadings I remember seeing was in the .357 magnum Circa 1935 on. That said I believe Keith's style bullet was one of the most popular sold in this time frame as reloading gained popularity largely thanks to the man himself Elmer Keith

[John44]

http://www.elmerkeithshoot.org/AmericanRifleman/LastWord.pdf

Elmer in his own words on the topic Circa 1929

[John44]

http://www.elmerkeithshoot.org/AmericanRifleman/Keith357.pdf

[Bryan Austin]

That is correct John44...good articles...Keith started out with the 45 Colt, but as all of you know, the 44 Special and 44 Magnum was the end result.

U.M.C. loaded 40gr of BP back from 1874 up ...as well as other options...up to WWII

The 45 Colt is King with 40gr of black powder and a 250gr LRNFP bullet. For details of the 45 Colt cartridge component history...check out https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1UAaKCmwp_R7J3IfnLogKmx4Mk8E724Blh0OHrfglxgk/edit?usp=drive_web&ouid=103521478414497701061

[LonesomePigeon]

John44, I've never read those articles. They look very interesting. Thanks for posting.

Bryan, absolutely top notch work.