USFA Single Action with 2 Cylinders

[TheTinMan]

How unusual were dual cylinder 45 Colt/45 ACP single action revolvers from USFA?  The box for the first USFA I bought includes an empty box for a second cylinder.

I’m asking because I may have an opportunity to buy one, serial #25xxx.  Hard rubber grips, 5-1/2” barrel.  He’s asking $2,400 for it which seems a little high for a private sale. That’s why I’m asking about the second cylinder. Condition looks very good except for scratches on one of the cylinders. My guess is someone didn’t know how to remove and reinstall a cylinder in a SAA.

Chip

[Tascosa Joe]

I do not know how unusual the dual cylinder pistols are but I know near the end of production USFA advertised a special dual cylinder set for $995.  I know several people who purchased them.

[Buckaroo Lou]

Like TinMan I do not know how unusual they are but I have one in a 4 3/4" barrel. I have shot it with the 45 ACP cylinder and it is accurate. I have also installed wolf springs and Elk horn grips.

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[King Medallion]

That is sweet! Ever try shooting the 45 Cowboy Special brass in it, rather than the ACP?

[Buckaroo Lou]

Ever try shooting the 45 Cowboy Special brass in it, rather than the ACP?

King Medallion,

The 45 ACP cylinder is machined for the 45 ACP cartridge which uses the edge of the cartridge mouth for seating and not the base rim. A cartridge that uses the base rim for seating cannot be used in a 45 ACP cylinder because the cylinder could not turn.

[King Medallion]

Oh? I use Cowboy Special brass in my ACP cylinder all the time in my Ruger Flattop. Different gun I know, but that's all the CS brass is, an ACP with a rim.

[TheTinMan]

Oh? I use Cowboy Special brass in my ACP cylinder all the time in my Ruger Flattop. Different gun I know, but that's all the CS brass is, an ACP with a rim.

I am familiar with 45 Autorim brass. It makes shooting a S&W Model 25 more enjoyable not having to fiddle with moonclips. However, that revolver was designed to function with moonclips. I doubt that there is enough headspace in a USFA single action to close the loading gate on a 45 Autorim case.

[King Medallion]

Auto Rim is not the same as Cowboy Special. AR has a thicker rim, whereas CS has a normal rim identical the 45 Colt. The AR rim is thicker to accommodate the added thickness of the moon clips

[Coffinmaker]

   Hey Everybody 

Allow me to toss in a comment or two.  First:  for Buckaroo Lou - The ACP cylinders are indeed machined to seat on the case mouth of the ACP cartridge.  This also holds the cartridge rim proud of the cylinder breach, allowing a Cowboy 45 Special case to be loaded and seat on the case rim and have correct head space.  Works a treat.

ALL - I don't know what brought up the Auto Rim, but that cartridgege is an entirely different kettle of fish.  The Auto Rim doesn't fit in anything not spatially machined of the AR cartridge.

The end dimension of the C45S and the ACP cartridge, from the rim forward are identical.  This allows the the two cartridges to be used in an ACP cylinder interchangeably.  The benefit of the C45S design, was to provide far less internal volume for reduced loads to be able to compete with the 38special shooters.  A side benefit of the ACP chamber can be elimination of the "jump" from case mouth to throat of the 45 Colt chamber.  The jump can effect accuracy although I have found no difference in accuracy between 45 Colt chambers and 45 ACP chambers.  As a reduced load BP cartridge, the C45S is SUPERB.

Lets Have Fun Our There

PS: I one had a swell pair of USFA "DOUBLE EAGLES" to which I fit Uberti 45 ACP cylinders, just for C45S cartridges.  Wish I had kept them now.

[Buckaroo Lou]

Coffinmaker,

Thank you for your explanation. I am not that familiar with the C45S since I don't shoot cowboy competition. I just know the 45 ACP cylinders are machined to seat on the case mouth and did not realize there was enough space to allow for the rim of the C45S when chambered in a 45ACP cylinder. My bad. I learned something new today. 

[TheTinMan]

  Hey Everybody 

Allow me to toss in a comment or two.  First:  for Buckaroo Lou - The ACP cylinders are indeed machined to seat on the case mouth of the ACP cartridge.  This also holds the cartridge rim proud of the cylinder breach, allowing a Cowboy 45 Special case to be loaded and seat on the case rim and have correct head space.  Works a treat.

ALL - I don't know what brought up the Auto Rim, but that cartridgege is an entirely different kettle of fish.  The Auto Rim doesn't fit in anything not spatially machined of the AR cartridge.

The end dimension of the C45S and the ACP cartridge, from the rim forward are identical.  This allows the the two cartridges to be used in an ACP cylinder interchangeably.  The benefit of the C45S design, was to provide far less internal volume for reduced loads to be able to compete with the 38special shooters.  A side benefit of the ACP chamber can be elimination of the "jump" from case mouth to throat of the 45 Colt chamber.  The jump can effect accuracy although I have found no difference in accuracy between 45 Colt chambers and 45 ACP chambers.  As a reduced load BP cartridge, the C45S is SUPERB.

Lets Have Fun Our There

PS: I one had a swell pair of USFA "DOUBLE EAGLES" to which I fit Uberti 45 ACP cylinders, just for C45S cartridges.  Wish I had kept them now.

I brought up 45 Auto Rim because I was ignorant of the C45S case.  Now I’ve learned something.
https://www.starlinebrass.com/45-cowboy-special/

Some of the comments in this thread are confusing. Reading that Starline page, the C45S case is intended to be used in a revolver chambered for 45 Colt and head spacing on the rim just like that cartridge.   If you have a single action revolver with a one-by-one ejector rod, why wouldn’t you simply used 45 ACP cases in a cylinder chambered for 45 ACP?  That cartridge was designed to headspace on the case mouth, not a protruding rim. I don’t understand why a roll crimp would be useful in a light-for-cartridge load; however, I don’t know anything about black powder so that might be the answer.

I do understand the benefits of C45S cases for any revolver chambered for 45 Colt.

No firearm was ever designed for the 45 Auto Rim case. The case was designed to be used in 45 ACP revolvers intended to use moonclips for headspace and ejection. Model 1917s of either flavor, S&W Model 25s, etc. Looking at SAAMI drawings for 45 Colt and 45 Auto Rim I can see that the 45 Auto Rim’s rim is both thicker and wider in diameter compared to 45 Colt.