Author Topic: What to look for  (Read 669 times)

Offline DeaconKC

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What to look for
« on: August 02, 2021, 04:16:41 PM »
Okay Gents, I need some advice here. My FFL told me he has a Taylor's .38 Conversion Top 5 1/2" coming in Thursday. I have been lucky on my first Open Top with no evident arbor issues. However, I have seen you discuss the problems others have seen. Is there a way to see if this is in evidence before actually buying and shooting it? Thanks!
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Offline Abilene

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Re: What to look for
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2021, 04:29:25 PM »
If it has the short arbor, just drop an appropriate washer down the hole and you are good to go.  I shot some of my conversions for a lot of years before doing this.  It is not a "must do" like certain people would like to make you believe, but it is an improvement.  The #10 split washer is sort of the "standard" and is now in a couple of mine.  A couple others have an even thinner washer in there.

In Pettifogger's tuning article, he shows putting the barrel onto the arbor (minus cylinder) turned 90 degrees to check the length, but my experience is that on a new gun you often can not do this without the arbor binding in its hole in the barrel.

Offline Professor Marvel

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Re: What to look for
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2021, 04:32:37 PM »
Greetings My Good Deacon

Firstly, and most simply:
Is it a new Pietta, or an Uberti? Or gawd helps us an ancient used ASM ?

IF it is a newish Pietta, you should be good to go.

If not, an easy way is to remove the wedge, remove the barreland cylinder,  turn the barrel 90 degrees ,
And try to wiggle it down past the frame.... If that doesn't make sense I will try to post tintypes in a bit.

Oh my word... I really need more coffee. If it is NEW from Taylors, they will know whommade it.
Uberti = need fix
Pietta= no need

Hopefully one of the fellows who deals with Taylors regularly will chime in shortly.

Yhs
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PS ... Oh and what Abilene said.  ;D ;D ;D
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Offline Professor Marvel

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Re: What to look for
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2021, 04:56:09 PM »
Deacon

Here is the link to Pettifogers Uberti Open Top stuff where he discusses testing for and the fix
For the short arbor.

https://ia803101.us.archive.org/19/items/PettiFogger_Files/TOR%20Posts%20pdf/Tuning_the_Uberti_Open_Top_Revolvers_Part_3.pdf

All the links can be found here on CAS City in this very forum, titled
"Pettifogger Tuning The Open Tops..."

https://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php?topic=63467.0

And the simplest fix is to drop the appropriate washer in....

Yhs Prof Marvel
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Re: What to look for
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2021, 04:56:54 PM »
 ;D Thank you Gents! I do not know who is the maker, it is a brand new gun.
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Re: What to look for
« Reply #5 on: Today at 12:14:44 AM »

Offline Professor Marvel

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Re: What to look for
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2021, 04:57:56 PM »
;D Thank you Gents! I do not know who is the maker, it is a brand new gun.

Try calling Taylors!

Prf mumbles
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Offline DeaconKC

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Re: What to look for
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2021, 05:04:11 PM »
Try calling Taylors!

Prf mumbles
WHAT?!?! And use logic to address this? And keep us all from rampant, rampaging speculation?
Actually, I will have to wait until it gets here to see. I guess I will just turn it over like a puppy to tell! It is an octagonal barrel, if that gives us a clue from that.
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Offline Texas John Ringo

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Re: What to look for
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2021, 05:31:51 PM »
WHAT?!?! And use logic to address this? And keep us all from rampant, rampaging speculation?
Actually, I will have to wait until it gets here to see. I guess I will just turn it over like a puppy to tell! It is an octagonal barrel, if that gives us a clue from that.
Ask them who the maker is. They should know.

Offline 45 Dragoon

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Re: What to look for
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2021, 05:34:10 PM »
I don't believe Pietta makes any conversion open tops. So, if it's a cartridge gun, it has a short arbor (no matter who made it ). Your first one has a short arbor as well unless it's a Pietta made cap gun of recent manuf.  Abilene is correct about the 90° "test" unless you whittle down some of the arbor. Just put a washer in and check assembly. If the barrel lug meets the frame, drop in another washer (still too short) when it won't meet, measure by how much and subtract that from tot. thickness of the stack of washers. That's roughly the thickness of the needed spacer.

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Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: What to look for
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2021, 09:47:25 PM »
 :)  Hi Deacon   ;)

Echo . . Echo . .  Echo . .

PLUS ONE for 45 Dragoon.  "If it's Mattel it's Swell".  OK.  Pietta does NOT make any cartridge conversions.  PERIOD.  Ergo:  It's a Uberti.  If it's a Uberti, it has an abysmal Barrel to Arbor fit.  You Need/Must/Should fix that FIRST.  Abilene (Bless Him) is incorrect.  You may well get away with something, but that doesn't make the gun "right".

Normally, you cannot do the "turn it 90 degrees" test out of the box.  Uberti hides the Abysmal fit problem by poor fitment of the Arbor to the Lug bore.  The barrel just "grinds" to a stop.  The Lug bore need de-burring and the Arbor end needs de-burring and polishing.  THEN you can put it on the arbor 90 degrees out and turn it down.

There are several ways to "fix" the fit.  Some require some machine work.  I worked out a method about 20 years ago that uses a simple #10 stainless split washer down the lug bore, then stuff the arbor in on top it.  Just don't forget it's there when cleaning the gun.  A single split washer normally corrects 99% of Arbors.  It's also some cheap.  About .06

Play Safe out There

PS:  Forgot to mention, once you get the Barrel to Arbor fit fix'd, you will probably need to re-fit the Wedge.  And then replace the OEM springs.

PSS:  You didn't mention if your "other" open top pattern gun was a conversion or percussion.  If it's percussion and Pietta your Barrel to Arbor fit is so close you don't ant to mess with it.  If it's a Uberti . . . . Trust Us . . . . The Abysmal barrel to arbor fit just hasn't reared it's ugly head          (yet)

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Re: What to look for
« Reply #10 on: Today at 12:14:44 AM »

Offline DeaconKC

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Re: What to look for
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2021, 09:01:41 AM »
My other one is a Army .45 Colt conversion. So far I probably have 300-400 rounds through it, a couple of cleanings and so far runs well. I am a dinosaur who uses Miltec grease and Remoil, so far it seems to like that diet. Will pick up some washers at Ace Hardware in the next day or so. Is there anything obvious I would be able to spot before buying the gun?
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Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: What to look for
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2021, 03:38:54 PM »

 :)  Ha   ;)

Not really.  Just a "normal" function check.  Uberti hides their flaws really well behind a well crafted facade.  Forewarned is forearmed.  Have maximum fun with it.

Offline DeaconKC

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Re: What to look for
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2021, 04:57:27 PM »
I have first look at it when it arrives. My LGS is a good one, so I can not take it if I so desire.
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Re: What to look for
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2021, 03:25:48 PM »
Picked the little beastie up today. Interesting revolver, 2021 marking, so it is showing evidence of rushed finishing compared to my 20 stamped Army Conversion. The loading gate is SHARP, will have to smooth that off, the slot the ejector rides in, likewise sharp. I have not pulled the cylinder to check the arbor yet. The evidence of Covid hitting Italy so hard is clear, they are rushing to get guns back in the pipeline. Bluing is deep and even, the case finish is vibrant and polishing is well done with crisp edges and no dishing around screw holes. Surprisingly there is a small nick in the barrel, but Taylor's told my dealer ahead of time and gave a discounted price. Pics in a bit.
Thanks again for all your help.
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Re: What to look for
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2021, 05:33:27 PM »
Here are the pics


And yes, I know it's a S&W prop on a Colt
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Offline Major 2

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Re: What to look for
« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2021, 06:08:04 PM »
Nice ,
 I had one much like , but mine was cut down from 7 1/2 inches and shot high...I note your front sight is higher than mine was.

when planets align...do the deal !

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Re: What to look for
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2021, 07:47:00 PM »
Well, got to play with the new pup today. Err, I mean a thorough and professional examination, ahem. The arbor is very good! Would not even accept the washer as an experiment. However the Army .45 opentop gobbled the washer right up, even though it has run a couple hundred rounds through it without any issues.
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Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: What to look for
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2021, 08:46:28 AM »

That's a right nice looking Navy Conversion Deacon.  Next step, using a Blade type feeler gauge between the Barrel Breach and the Cylinder face, tap the wedge home where it's suppose to be and see if the Barrel to Cylinder Gap Changes.  Should not change more than about .001.  End Shake should also be around .001.

You're gonna have fun with that there Pistola.

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