Author Topic: Who is the best shooter ever?  (Read 1992 times)

Offline llanerosolitario

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Who is the best shooter ever?
« on: March 14, 2021, 12:08:13 PM »
Of course is not J. Miculek, but russian shooter Mikhail Nestruev is.....no one has reached or beaten his World record in Centerfire pistol ISSF...594 points, 60 rounds, 600 Maxim points theorically possible....all with a 40 years old Toz 49 revolver, possibly, the most accurate wheel gun in the World....plus his 29  Golds in International competitions in Free pistol (50 meters one hand held pistol in 22 lr) and 10 meters air gun.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikhail_Nestruyev

Lets say that this guy was able to consecutively punch holes 99% of the time,  in a 2” inch area, 60 times, one hand held, no optics, at a distance of 25 meters..,...

Toz 49 revolver...probably the most accurate revolver ever made. Some were sold commercially in Europe and still can be found in Cezch Rep and Slovakia.

http://olympicshootingmuseum.com/tenp/sptoz49.htm



Hats off colonel, and long live Russia!


Offline 45 Dragoon

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Re: Who is the best shooter ever?
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2021, 01:16:56 PM »
Of course is not!! You are much superior to us American's.  Does your precious Russia not have forums like America?  Then you could tell these wonderful things to those that actually give rats ass!    Maybe Russia could make superior revolvers than Italians and Americans could save up much dollars and make Russian company rich with American capitalism dollars!! Please keep posted as too see how much advanced Russians are! Maybe with much luck we can be competitive one day !!!
  (Obviously with tongue placed in check !!)

Long live America Bitches !!!

Mickel  .  .  .  I mean Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @goonsgunworks

Offline Abilene

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Re: Who is the best shooter ever?
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2021, 01:50:45 PM »
Well now I guess it depends on how you define "best shooter".   Best at what?  Accuracy, okay sure.  What about speed?  Just as important, depending on the requirements of the particular sport or event.

Offline River City John

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Re: Who is the best shooter ever?
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2021, 02:27:26 PM »
I've always felt that in my world I am the best shooter.
And I am not that good.

 8) ;)
"I was born by the river in a little tent, and just like the river I've been running ever since." - Sam Cooke
"He who will not look backward with reverence, will not look forward with hope." - Edmund Burke
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Offline 45 Dragoon

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Re: Who is the best shooter ever?
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2021, 02:48:11 PM »
    Gotta agree with Abilene!! If the Russian takes more than a second to aim,  Jerry would have 8 shots in the target!!  Or in 1.6 sec., 2 shots ea in 4 torso targets !!!
 (I'll stick with the American!!)

  Mike
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Re: Who is the best shooter ever?
« Reply #5 on: Today at 12:15:58 AM »

Offline llanerosolitario

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Re: Who is the best shooter ever?
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2021, 03:51:30 PM »
    Gotta agree with Abilene!! If the Russian takes more than a second to aim,  Jerry would have 8 shots in the target!!  Or in 1.6 sec., 2 shots ea in 4 torso targets !!!
 (I'll stick with the American!!)

  Mike

Then he could make 5 shots, hit the 10 score, 4 “ wide, in 4 seconds, one hand, 25 meters, no optics, as they do in Rapid fire pistol and do it 60 times...until you get 593 points ( maximum 600).

I want to see Miculek doing that. Just a mistake of 1mm in sights alignments and you will get a “zero”.

They should hire him, as a trainer.

Lets see...the record here is 593 points by German Ralf Schumann,,,,,it means that “this monster”, hit the 10 ring area in 99% of the occasions....remember..the hit area is 4 1/4 “ wide....just try to do it in 4 seconds...if you can’t do it, watch Miculek’s videos, whose advices in target shooting will let you do it,



Keith Sanderson is probably one of the best shooters in the USA..but is virtually unknown. You will learn a lot more with him about shooting, than with Miculek. His discipline is just the pure fundamentals of shooting, pure accuracy,  plus speed, and one can’t be without the other.


5:28 minute,,,.Keith Sanderson doing a “50”...




No money here, no sponsors, no show...no circus, no tv, no hall of fame, no gun magazines...just the pure fundamentals of shooting.




Offline August

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Re: Who is the best shooter ever?
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2021, 05:18:44 PM »
Kim Rhode!

Offline llanerosolitario

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Re: Who is the best shooter ever?
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2021, 06:01:59 PM »
Ragnar Skanaker....the Swede.

He wrote several books about target shooting...  2  well known are “pistol shooting” and “master competitive pistol shooting” ...he set for years the World record in standard pistol.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ragnar_Skanåker


Offline LongWalker

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Re: Who is the best shooter ever?
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2021, 06:07:35 PM »
Who is the greatest matador ever?  Of course it is not Manolete (with barely over 1,000 kills), or Luis Miguel Dominguin of the flashy costumes (with more than 3,500 kills before he was 30, he was at best an amateur), or even Juan José Padilla or Enrique Ponce.  Rather, it is Davey Krauskopf. 

At a Texas packing plant, without la cuadrilla, using not spears or little flags or swords but a Green River sticking knife (possibly, the most deadly and efficient knife made), he slit the throats of 85 bulls a day (five days a week--and 35 on Saturday!) for 28 years, never missing, and without ever being gored!

No other matador has ever achieved this--almost 670 thousand errorless kills, a record that will likely never be matched, let alone exceeded.  No fame, no sponsors, no costumes, no circus, no showers of flowers from adoring fans. . . just the pure fundamentals of killing bulls.

What's that you say?  Bullfighting has little in common with slaughtering livestock?  But anyone not a fool can see that there is more in common there than between ISSF competition does with IPSC/ICORE/Bianchi Cup. 
In my book a pioneer is a man who turned all the grass upside down, strung bob-wire over the dust that was left, poisoned the water, cut down the trees, killed the Indian who owned the land and called it progress.  Charles M. Russell

Offline llanerosolitario

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Re: Who is the best shooter ever?
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2021, 06:23:28 PM »
 :DYou missed the point...no one gives a damn for Bulls figthing in Spain...only in the south and for tourists. And Pamplona, near Basque Country.

They say it is one of the most boring shows in the World...and I believe them, Flamenco music sucks too. I am not  Andalusian..

Maybe ISSF has more to do with the fundamentals of shooting while IPSC has more to do with fun and games.

In my experience, practicing both, IDPA gives more training for self defense than  IPSC...IDPA helps to improve as a general shooter while IPSC does not neccesarily...and It is totally unrealistic, nothing to do with real combat scenarios and situations....while ISSF is good for everything if complemented with instict shooting.

Maybe Jeff Cooper did more harm than good in the shooting sports..thougth later in his life he rejected what IPSC had became.

Interesting that the best knives ( most efficient and most deadly) were invented in the USA...specially when it is a tool that humans have been using since the bronze ages.

here some photos I took while visiting armeria real in Madrid, from the XVI century....really deadly.....Vilnius national museum (IX century) and Prague private museum..( clones of cezch and Italian knives from the Middle Ages).....and finally a traditional rural Spanish knive ..


They surely did and do cut and are/ were extremly deadly thougth it is obvious that not as much as the Green River knife.


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Re: Who is the best shooter ever?
« Reply #10 on: Today at 12:15:58 AM »

Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: Who is the best shooter ever?
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2021, 06:40:12 PM »

 >:(  Aw Cummon youz guyz   :(

Yer all missing the most important point:

DO.   NOT.   FEED.   THE.   TROLL !!!  Repeat as Necessary.

It is very difficult to change the mind of an intelligent person.  It  Is  Impossible to change the mind of a STUPID one.  Especially a TROLL

Offline LongWalker

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Re: Who is the best shooter ever?
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2021, 06:45:15 PM »
No, I didn't miss the point. 

Your discussion of ISSF etc has little, if anything, to do with "rules, guns & gear, clubs and organizations, strategy, training, etc" yet you put it in the board set aside for discussion of those topics.  If you want to discuss it, maybe you could put it in the appropriate board, such as "The Shooting Range" further down the CAS City homepage (under general topics).  As the description there says, "The Shootin' Range is for general NON-CAS discussions of anything related to shootin'; guns, gear, IPSC, Steel Challenge, IDPA, Sillhouette, hunting or any other shootin' game.

If you seriously want to discuss topics such as you've been posting, you'll have a better response in the appropriate boards.  All you've been accomplishing is stirring up animosity. 

In my book a pioneer is a man who turned all the grass upside down, strung bob-wire over the dust that was left, poisoned the water, cut down the trees, killed the Indian who owned the land and called it progress.  Charles M. Russell

Offline llanerosolitario

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Re: Who is the best shooter ever?
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2021, 07:26:59 AM »
Of course is not!! You are much superior to us American's.  Does your precious Russia not have forums like America?  Then you could tell these wonderful things to those that actually give rats ass!    Maybe Russia could make superior revolvers than Italians and Americans could save up much dollars and make Russian company rich with American capitalism dollars!! Please keep posted as too see how much advanced Russians are! Maybe with much luck we can be competitive one day !!!
  (Obviously with tongue placed in check !!)

Long live America Bitches !!!

Mickel  .  .  .  I mean Mike

Russia is a capitalist nation....it is no longer a communist economy, fortunately. If they had good gun laws it would be a perfect country.

Offline llanerosolitario

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Re: Who is the best shooter ever?
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2021, 08:02:42 AM »
Of course is not!! You are much superior to us American's.  Does your precious Russia not have forums like America?  Then you could tell these wonderful things to those that actually give rats ass!    Maybe Russia could make superior revolvers than Italians and Americans could save up much dollars and make Russian company rich with American capitalism dollars!! Please keep posted as too see how much advanced Russians are! Maybe with much luck we can be competitive one day !!!
  (Obviously with tongue placed in check !!)

Long live America Bitches !!!

Mickel  .  .  .  I mean Mike




Offline llanerosolitario

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Re: Who is the best shooter ever?
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2021, 08:04:08 AM »
 ;D ;D ;D

Offline Dave T

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Re: Who is the best shooter ever?
« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2021, 10:28:04 AM »
...Flamenco music sucks too.

I wasn't going to respond to this diatribe but this has gone too far. If you don't like Flamenco that is your privilege. But to make the above statement you are showing your IGNORANCE. That is a lack of knowledge or understanding. There are a number of musical forms I don't like. I have never declared they suck. How childish.

And what your Russian hero has to do with the firearms of the Post Civil War period in the Trans-Mississippi West is likely beyond anyone on this board...because it has nothing to do with our subject.

Dave

Offline llanerosolitario

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Re: Who is the best shooter ever?
« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2021, 01:32:18 PM »
I wasn't going to respond to this diatribe but this has gone too far. If you don't like Flamenco that is your privilege. But to make the above statement you are showing your IGNORANCE. That is a lack of knowledge or understanding. There are a number of musical forms I don't like. I have never declared they suck. How childish.

And what your Russian hero has to do with the firearms of the Post Civil War period in the Trans-Mississippi West is likely beyond anyone on this board...because it has nothing to do with our subject.

Dave

Well, About flamenco, it is really annoying that every time that they mention Spain, they allways talk about Flamenco and bullfighting, which are music and culture from the south of the country. I am from north Spain, and flamenco is not music, and by the way, I don’t like it at all. And none of my friends like it, The same abou bullfightings. And 90% of the Spaniards agree with me, they don’t like or identify themselves with neither of both,

About the Russian shooter, everything about that guy applies here,,he is the greatest Centerfire ISSF shooter in history, setting a World record that is yet to be beaten...and with a wheel gun, beating ultra modern Morinis, Walther, Pardinis, Tesros, Benellis...

What you can learn from the Russian school of shooting and from one of these guys, is much. Far more than from Miculek or from mediatic Hickockock, whose videos have taught me nothing.  Much speed in the first case....unrealistic speed, where you empty your magazine in 1 1/2 seconds...shooting at large areas of and IPSC target. Much fun, yes, but nothing good to be learnt.

Those technics, based on IPSC, speed, and tactical mind, have spoiled the law enforcement training, creating 3 generations of police officers who can’t hit a torso or head at 15 meters, but who will spray a ton of bullets at amazing speed....at the suspect, his mom and the near bystander.

Jeff Cooper spoiled the shooting panorama with his IPSC....he destroyed bulls eye shooting and instinctive shooting too, replacing it with a dinamic discipline that is unrealistic. .Because  what works is the old school. The Russian guy , and Scanaker or Keith Sanderson represent the fundamentals of shooting. That is useful. It is accuracy and also speed (  Center fire ISSF  includes a 3 second duelling stance, and Rapid fire pistol is 50% speed 50 pure accuracy)

 ,Miculek, however, and in my opinion,  represents the stupidity of the postmodern times in the shooting panorama, specially in the USA, that we are living since the 80s, when Jeff Cooper, gun writers and the industry killed Bullseye, labeling it as “static” and useless. So wrong. It is the base of everything in shooting.

What it has to do with guns of the old West? The old timers used their guns like the Russian guy does: with markmanship. Ammo was expensive, every shot should reach the target and it was better to have the enemy far away, that’s why long barrels in revolvers.

It is CAS and IPSC what have nothing to do with the Old West. Nothing at all.

Pd: I can also hit a target at 1000 yards , Miculek style, with a 9mm...let me try 100 times before....and do the video at time 101.

But it must be a balloon on a steel plate....ok? So that the bullet and steel fragments will explode the balloon anyway, even if I don’t hit the balloon.

Miculek, you are the best! The Russian guy should learn from you!

About your amazing speed with the wheel gun....I will try one of these days....but using recoil less anemic loads as you do...air gun type..

Using undersized 9mm bullets in a 38 also lowers recoil...

Offline newdaddy55

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Re: Who is the best shooter ever?
« Reply #17 on: March 15, 2021, 03:53:43 PM »
The late great Bob Munden, RIP!

Offline llanerosolitario

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Re: Who is the best shooter ever?
« Reply #18 on: March 15, 2021, 05:50:39 PM »
The late great Bob Munden, RIP!

He was an expert in doing the same....hitting balloons at amazing distances..on steel plates with the steel and bullet fragments..it never fails...and also an expert in shooting blanks at the speed of ligth from modified,  Arvo Ojala type, invented, , non period holsters. The “real” West at its best. Or more,precisely, the “invented”, non interesting, B series Hollywood’s and John Ford’s  West.

Ennio Morriconne’s was more artistic and interesting.



Offline Russ T Chambers

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Re: Who is the best shooter ever?
« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2021, 07:07:38 PM »
>:(  Aw Cummon youz guyz   :(

Yer all missing the most important point:

DO.   NOT.   FEED.   THE.   TROLL !!!  Repeat as Necessary.

It is very difficult to change the mind of an intelligent person.  It  Is  Impossible to change the mind of a STUPID one.  Especially a TROLL

I have to agree with Coffinmaker !!!!! Don't feed him and he'll die of ego starvation!
Russ T. Chambers
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