Author Topic: Goex FFF results.  (Read 1072 times)

Offline Froogal

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Goex FFF results.
« on: January 18, 2021, 12:53:31 PM »
Actually the results are not yet all that conclusive, but I just want to relate a bit.

I loaded 10 .45 Colt shells with 30 grains of the FFF, and another 10 with 25 grains and one .7cc dipper of cream of wheat. 200 grain lead round nose, flat point bullet. Cimarron 5 1/2" barrel.

Shot the reduced loads first with no issues. Ejected those spent rounds and then loaded up the full, 30 grain loads. Again, no issues, and not much difference in noise, but when I tried to eject them, I could get only one, and the cylinder locked up. I pulled the base pin and the cylinder came out with just a little persuasion, but the base pin bushing required even more persuasion to remove from the cylinder.

I have more to learn, but for now, I think I will stick with 25 grains and cream of wheat.

Offline Abilene

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Re: Goex FFF results.
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2021, 01:32:01 PM »
Had you had the cylinder bushing out of the cylinder previously?  They can be a bear to get out the first time on some guns.

Offline Froogal

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Re: Goex FFF results.
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2021, 01:37:48 PM »
Had you had the cylinder bushing out of the cylinder previously?  They can be a bear to get out the first time on some guns.

Yes. I've not shot this particular gun a LOT of times, but it is always cleaned thoroughly after each session.

Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: Goex FFF results.
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2021, 02:35:08 PM »

 :)  Froogal  ;)

The Cylinder Base Pin Bushing may need to be "dressed" (fancy term for polished).  Chuck it up an a Drill Motor and light wrap some 1000 Grit Wet/Dry and polish bearing surface of the Bushing.  Then test for a "tight spot."

Stay Safe out there

Offline Froogal

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Re: Goex FFF results.
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2021, 04:07:42 PM »
:)  Froogal  ;)

The Cylinder Base Pin Bushing may need to be "dressed" (fancy term for polished).  Chuck it up an a Drill Motor and light wrap some 1000 Grit Wet/Dry and polish bearing surface of the Bushing.  Then test for a "tight spot."

Stay Safe out there

I cleaned the gun just awhile ago. The base pin and base pin bushing both cleaned up very well, and functioned fine after cleaning. I usually put a few drops of oil on the pin and bushing, but this time I gave each a light coating of wheel bearing grease.

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Re: Goex FFF results.
« Reply #5 on: Today at 07:11:16 AM »

Offline Cliff Fendley

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Re: Goex FFF results.
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2021, 05:47:32 PM »
I cleaned the gun just awhile ago. The base pin and base pin bushing both cleaned up very well, and functioned fine after cleaning. I usually put a few drops of oil on the pin and bushing, but this time I gave each a light coating of wheel bearing grease.

Everyone has their own thing. Lots swear by Mobile 1 synthetic grease, different types of oils, etc, but the best thing I've found and my go to lubricant for cowboy guns especially ones that see black powder is Lubriplate engine assembly lube.

Had some laying around from back in my racing and engine building days and got to thinking if that stuff will stay on bearings long enough for the few hundred revolutions until oil pressure takes over then it will have to work on a gun.

The only downside to lubing the action of a gun with it is if it's a gun that doesn't get used regularly the stuff eventually dries out and get pasty so I only put it in guns that get used and that will be torn down and relubed every year or three. On base pins and the bushings it's great.
http://www.fendleyknives.com/

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Offline Froogal

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Re: Goex FFF results.
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2021, 08:37:00 AM »
Everyone has their own thing. Lots swear by Mobile 1 synthetic grease, different types of oils, etc, but the best thing I've found and my go to lubricant for cowboy guns especially ones that see black powder is Lubriplate engine assembly lube.

Had some laying around from back in my racing and engine building days and got to thinking if that stuff will stay on bearings long enough for the few hundred revolutions until oil pressure takes over then it will have to work on a gun.

The only downside to lubing the action of a gun with it is if it's a gun that doesn't get used regularly the stuff eventually dries out and get pasty so I only put it in guns that get used and that will be torn down and relubed every year or three. On base pins and the bushings it's great.

I guess I should clarify WHY I chose to use wheel bearing grease. THAT is what was already in the basement workshop, and close to the gun cleaning/reloading bench. The stuff I used is NOT anywhere close to the wheel bearing grease of yesteryear that had the thick, stringy particles in it. It is just a smooth grease.

Offline Dick Dastardly

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Re: Goex FFF results.
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2021, 09:59:25 AM »
When loading 45 Colt ammo I charge the empty primed brass with 2.3cc of Holy Black, either FFFg or FFg.  Then a 200 grain J/P45-200 Big Lube® bullet is seated to the crimp grove and lightly crimped (just enough crimp to make them "pocket safe")  FWIW, I've never had an extraction problem even after shooting a 3 day annual match with either 73 rifle or Ruger pistols.

All that said, my favorite round for my 1860 open tops with Kirst Konverter cylinders is the shorter 45 Cowboy Special with the same bullet but only 20grains of BP.  Also, no extraction questions.

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Offline Cliff Fendley

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Re: Goex FFF results.
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2021, 11:09:27 AM »
I guess I should clarify WHY I chose to use wheel bearing grease. THAT is what was already in the basement workshop, and close to the gun cleaning/reloading bench. The stuff I used is NOT anywhere close to the wheel bearing grease of yesteryear that had the thick, stringy particles in it. It is just a smooth grease.

The Mobile 1 synthetic most use is a wheel bearing grease. What your using is probably a Lithium. Many swear by it I was just pointing out my experience with the engine assembly lube. It was a situation like yours, I tried it because I had some and discovered how well it works. It is lighter weight than wheel bearing grease which is considered #2 grade. This is more like #0 thickness white lithium but I suppose it must have some special moly and other additives in it for lubrication on engine bearing surfaces on start up.
http://www.fendleyknives.com/

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Offline Capt Quirk

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Re: Goex FFF results.
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2021, 11:55:04 AM »
A curious thought crossed my mind, what about graphite based lubes?

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Re: Goex FFF results.
« Reply #10 on: Today at 07:11:16 AM »

Offline Froogal

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Re: Goex FFF results.
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2021, 01:26:32 PM »
The Mobile 1 synthetic most use is a wheel bearing grease. What your using is probably a Lithium. Many swear by it I was just pointing out my experience with the engine assembly lube. It was a situation like yours, I tried it because I had some and discovered how well it works. It is lighter weight than wheel bearing grease which is considered #2 grade. This is more like #0 thickness white lithium but I suppose it must have some special moly and other additives in it for lubrication on engine bearing surfaces on start up.

I think maybe, just maybe, the reason the base pin bushing became tight is because some residue, or maybe even unburned powder, found its way into the very small gap between the bushing and the cylinder. Anyhow, That is what it looked like. My thoughts are that maybe the grease will seal up that gap?

I wanted to shoot some more today and test my theory, but the wind is blowing something fierce. It would blow the black smoke away so fast that I wouldn't get to enjoy it.

Offline Lefty Dude

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Re: Goex FFF results.
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2021, 02:24:40 PM »
Always use Mobil 1 with excellent results !!!!

Offline Abilene

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Re: Goex FFF results.
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2021, 02:47:46 PM »
...I wanted to shoot some more today and test my theory, but the wind is blowing something fierce. It would blow the black smoke away so fast that I wouldn't get to enjoy it.

More than once I have been prepared to go shoot BP at a CAS match, but the wind was blowing so much that morning that I switched out and shot smokeless instead.  You can't smoke up the posse with the smoke immediately gone, what's the fun of that?   :)

Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: Goex FFF results.
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2021, 10:05:25 AM »

 :)  Froogal   ;)

I only use TWO lubricants in my Guns.  ALL of my guns are shot with BP or Subs.  For a grease application my "go-to" is Mobil 1.  A tube of Mobil 1 may last near forever.  For light oiling application I use Mobil 1 motor oil.  Both are synthetic and play extremely well with BP/Subs.

I shoot BP/Subs at matches, windy or not.  My only concession is when it's cool or damp.  Then I go with Suppositories.

Offline Cliff Fendley

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Re: Goex FFF results.
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2021, 11:42:03 AM »
When I was racing I swore by Mobile 1 oil for engines and grease for bearings. The stuff is actually incredible in lubrication and oil temps don't affect engine power like regular oils.

When I heard of people using Mobile 1 grease in their guns I thought awesome I've got 100 year supply of that laying around. It makes sense being synthetic but I personally was disappointed in the results with the grease. Not that it doesn't work good because it does but the engine assembly lube works better for me.

Are you guys using the Mobile synthetic using the EP1 or the EP2? It might be that what I had laying around is EP2 and is just too thick.
http://www.fendleyknives.com/

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Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: Goex FFF results.
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2021, 08:37:42 AM »

Hey Cliff  ;)

Dunno.  I'd have to go down and look, and the Shop is colder than a Witches . . . . and I'm warm and lazy.

Anyway, when using Mobil 1 Grease, I don't slather it.  It is some thick (Preferred for Cap Gun Arbors).  It also induces some small amount to drag to the rotation of the cylinder when playing with it.  I don't know that I notice that after the "buzzard" sounds.  Following assembly and during a CAS activity, I don't add more grease.  I lube with a small bottle of Mobil 1 motor oil.  5 - 40 I think.  It's downstairs too.

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Offline Froogal

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Re: Goex FFF results.
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2021, 01:46:28 PM »
Apparently the grease I used did the job. Shot another 10 rounds today without incident. I might add that the grease I used is Lucas wheel bearing grease. Green in color.

Offline Doc Waxham

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Re: Goex FFF results.
« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2021, 02:19:40 PM »
Since I started shooting BP 20 plus years ago it's always been bore butter. Any new gun gets cleaned and degreased with brake cleaner. Put it back together bore butter everything. I have never had any problems with my guns not functioning with this method. I use REM oil in the actions. I have used Elephant, Goex, Subs, Swiss all with same results. Plus easy to clean..

Doc

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Re: Goex FFF results.
« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2021, 05:33:30 PM »
...
I loaded 10 .45 Colt shells with 30 grains of the FFF, and another 10 with 25 grains and one .7cc dipper of cream of wheat. 200 grain lead round nose, flat point bullet. Cimarron 5 1/2" barrel.

Shot the reduced loads first with no issues. ....
Please also see my note in your thread about smokless burn rates...

I would like to suggest, that since this load with filler worked well, shot clean, ejected nicely, and produced little fouling...

WHY NOT STICK WITH WHAT WORKS?

The filler is obviously doing  "something" good for you, in your pistol, whether it is making "the right comression",
the "right internal pressures for excellent burn" or scouring out the crap....
It is simple and apparently produces the pressure and burn that the BP needs to burn (almost?) completely.
Why mess with good results?

yhs
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Offline Froogal

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Re: Goex FFF results.
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2021, 08:29:14 AM »
Please also see my note in your thread about smokless burn rates...

I would like to suggest, that since this load with filler worked well, shot clean, ejected nicely, and produced little fouling...

WHY NOT STICK WITH WHAT WORKS?

The filler is obviously doing  "something" good for you, in your pistol, whether it is making "the right comression",
the "right internal pressures for excellent burn" or scouring out the crap....
It is simple and apparently produces the pressure and burn that the BP needs to burn (almost?) completely.
Why mess with good results?

yhs
pof marvel

You make a good point. Pretty much the same conclusion that I came to. Also, cream of wheat is less costly than Goex, so this will let me stretch out my supply of powder.

 

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