Author Topic: PHOTOS ADDED - Spencer Carbine & Shotgun  (Read 669 times)

Offline bear tooth billy

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PHOTOS ADDED - Spencer Carbine & Shotgun
« on: January 08, 2021, 03:24:45 PM »
Will a Taylors 1865 reproduction main spring fit in an original Spencer.
My original has a very hard trigger pull, and rather than trying
to lighten the 155 year old original, I would rather get a new
one to do it     Thanks

                       BTB
Born 110 years too late

Offline Cap'n Redneck

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Re: Main spring
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2021, 05:26:18 PM »
The original Spencer used a mainspring identical to the one used in the original Sharps rifles and carbines.
That means you could also could shop around for mainsprings made for C.Sharps- / Shiloh- / Pedersoli- / ArmiSport-Chiappa - made Sharps rifles.
I regret that I do not have specific recommendations as to what brand requires the least fitting.
Maybe some other "gun-tinkerer" will chime in?
"As long as there's lead in the air, there's still hope..."
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Offline Roscoe Coles

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Re: Main spring
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2021, 08:23:26 PM »
It’s worth a try.  I used a lower block from a Taylor’s gun (for the improved Lane extractor) in my rebuilt Spencer and it worked with some modification. 

On the other hand, Lodgewood has originals for sale for $30. 

Offline bear tooth billy

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Re: Main spring
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2021, 08:17:08 AM »
After talking to Big Goose last night, I decided work on my original.
I read the post on here about lightning it, so I had it apart several times
and am getting feeling better, a little bit at a time. I'm going to get out
a fish scale today to see where I'm at. I was amazed at how good the
lock looked inside, so that gave me confidence to work on the spring.

   Thanks   BTB
Born 110 years too late

Offline bear tooth billy

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Re: Main spring
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2021, 01:00:39 PM »
I used the electronic fish scale and was still 12 lbs, I thought that
was a lot better, wish I would have checked it before, had to be 20 lbs.
I worked on it some more. Now the trigger spring is under 2 lbs. and
cocked it's about 6 - 7 lbs., much better. I sanded it on a 1'' belt sander
and then polished down to 600 grit sand paper and ox-pho blued it.

Here are my Spencers - The carbine is a 1865 spencer mfd. by Burnside rifle co. serial # 14655. do you know any history from the serial #?

The shotgun is a model 1896 Bannerman (Spencer). When my dads best friend died, we went through the house and that old shotgun caught my eye, especially when I saw Spencer pat. 1882. It was pretty ugly with light rust pitting. I found out it wasn’t worth much, but I wanted to keep it as a memorial from Kenny, so I had a gun smith friend redo it and it really turned out nice. As I said, he nickel plated the receiver and blued the barrel, and I did the wood with an oil finish.  Thanks
 





                            BTB
Born 110 years too late

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Re: PHOTOS ADDED - Spencer Carbine & Shotgun
« Reply #5 on: Today at 10:15:11 PM »

Offline Roscoe Coles

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Re: PHOTOS ADDED - Spencer Carbine & Shotgun
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2021, 10:00:58 PM »
Good deal on the mainspring. What’s the story on the Spencer shotgun?  It’ looks like it’s in good shape and I have never seen a plated one.  Is it original or was it refinished? 

Offline Two Flints

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Re: PHOTOS ADDED - Spencer Carbine & Shotgun
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2021, 06:18:25 AM »
Roscoe, go back to the post with photos and see the comments on the shotgun - comments added just this morning.

Two Flints

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Offline El Supremo

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Re: PHOTOS ADDED - Spencer Carbine & Shotgun
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2021, 07:53:40 AM »
Hello:

The following is in prior posts on our Forum:

ArmiSport/Chiappa/Taylors Spencer mainspring dimensions and tempers have varied over twenty-plus years of  production.  Best to contact the Chiappa Warranty Service Center in Dayton, OH.

Other seemingly identical mainsprings such as originals also vary in temper and geometry. 

The same well fitting mainspring swapped between several gun locks will make a range of difference from none to a few pounds in pull weight.  I have put properly fitting Shiloh's fine Sharps mainsprings in originals and Romano repro's, and found much less cocking effort with a rangeof zero to four pounds reduction in pull weight. 

Original Spencer and Sharps mainsprings can have significant temper and geometry differences and may not be interchangeable with originals or Armisport's.  There were/are still lots of original Spencer mainsprings that were condemned, per Marcot, and I have learned that those found their way to post-civil war surplus parts dealers and into current parts bins.  Dealers have told me that some of the temper variation in original Spencer/Sharps mainsprings is due to being for cap fired vs primer fired use. 

I have found originals with and without inspector marks, some with up to 1/8" length difference, large temper ranges and some that only fit poorly, if at all.

Before spending upwards of $40, try to test any originals first and NEVER use channel locks to compress the spring.  Use a good mainspring vise and attach it with the thumbscrew sticking up to avoid slippage.  Only compress enough to remove and attach. 

Be careful:
Original Spencers used strong mainsprings with sear and hammer angles that were designed to work against themselves to create a "martial", 8# pull weight.

Original issue Spencers had no fly on the tumbler, which prevents the sear tip from bumping the half-cock notch.  Armisport repro's do have a fly in the ones I have inspected. Nice.

Using a digital or coil spring trigger pull weight gauge allows the weight of pull to be INSTANTLY released and the sear tip to bump either the fly, which prevents half-cock contact or in those with no fly, eventual damage.  A heavy pull weight with no fly, as on originals, and FINGER pull release force maintains enough pull weight to move the sear tip well away as the half-cock notch rotates.

Italian reproduction lock parts may not be through hardened so stoning sear and hammer cock notches cuts away the hard surfaces so re-hardening is needed for durability.  I do not know anyone now who will attempt it because they cannot get anyone to tell them about the alloy that is used in Italian repro parts.

All the best,
El Supremo/Kevin Tinny
edited for typo's. VR/KT

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Offline Roscoe Coles

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Re: PHOTOS ADDED - Spencer Carbine & Shotgun
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2021, 09:31:05 PM »
Roscoe, go back to the post with photos and see the comments on the shotgun - comments added just this morning.

Two Flints

Great, thanks. It had a modern look.

Offline River City John

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Re: PHOTOS ADDED - Spencer Carbine & Shotgun
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2021, 07:22:55 AM »
Not being familiar with the Spencer shotgun, what is the function of the forward reverse trigger. Safety?
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Re: PHOTOS ADDED - Spencer Carbine & Shotgun
« Reply #10 on: Today at 10:15:11 PM »

Offline Cap'n Redneck

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Re: PHOTOS ADDED - Spencer Carbine & Shotgun
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2021, 02:13:32 PM »
The "forward reverse trigger" is actually the hammer.  Push forward to cock. 
(Racking the slide will automatically cock the hammer).
"As long as there's lead in the air, there's still hope..."
Frontiersman & Frontiersman Gunfighter: The only two categories where you can play with your balls and shoot your wad while tweaking the nipples on a pair of 44s.

 

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