Author Topic: Original 1866 carbine in 44 Henry CF  (Read 682 times)

Offline Big Goose

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Original 1866 carbine in 44 Henry CF
« on: November 03, 2020, 09:32:20 AM »
Howdy all,
 I'm not sure how to move topics between boards, but I posted on the NCOWS board  , vintage hunting topic about my 66  in 44 HCF, if you're interested...
Have a great day!
 BG

Offline Dave T

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Re: Original 1866 carbine in 44 Henry CF
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2020, 12:02:18 PM »
Just flat out KOOL!

Tell us about loading ammo for it.

Dave

Offline Black River Smith

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Re: Original 1866 carbine in 44 Henry CF
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2020, 05:33:26 PM »
Dave T,

Go up to Big Goose's posting in the NCOWS section.  I asked him the very same question last night when I saw his posting.  He has give a very good detailed explanation of his components and loading tools.

BRS
Black River Smith

Offline Coal Creek Griff

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Re: Original 1866 carbine in 44 Henry CF
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2020, 09:19:44 PM »
The NCOWS thread starts with post 671 under the vintage hunting topic, here:

https://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php?topic=29573.660
Manager, WT Ranch--Coal Creek Division

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Offline ndnchf

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Re: Original 1866 carbine in 44 Henry CF
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2020, 06:51:41 AM »
Big Goose - that is awesome. I read your description on the NCOWS thread.  Your cartridge is very similar to the .44 Remington CF I make for a #2 Remington rolling block.  But mine uses shortened .41 mag brass, Bernie's .44 S&W American heel bullet and 22-23gr of OE.  In fact, my cartridge is almost the same as the .44 S&W American.

Can you tell us more about the die you made to swage/bend the rim a little thicker?  Maybe a photo or two?  I know BACO does that for some of their other brass. 

Here is my .44 Remington CF cartridge. 

"We're all travelers in this world.  From the sweet grass to the packing house, birth till death, we travel between the eternities"  Prentiss Ritter, Broken Trail

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Re: Original 1866 carbine in 44 Henry CF
« Reply #5 on: Today at 01:33:17 AM »

Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: Original 1866 carbine in 44 Henry CF
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2020, 01:42:22 PM »

 :)  Oh MAGOSH!!   ;)

That rifle is simply marvelous.  There are so few original  1866 Central Fire rifles in this country.  I would think we could count the number of them and not run out of fingers.  It is also superb that ammunition has been made to make the rifle useable.  Absolutely fabulous.

Wish it twer MINE (sniff sniff)

Offline Tascosa Joe

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Re: Original 1866 carbine in 44 Henry CF
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2020, 10:47:17 AM »
I know of 2 in this country, but I am sure there are a few more.  This one and I believe Shrapnel has the other.
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Offline nativeshootist

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Re: Original 1866 carbine in 44 Henry CF
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2020, 02:01:22 AM »
How much ammo does it hold?

Offline KWK

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Re: Original 1866 carbine in 44 Henry CF
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2020, 10:01:26 AM »
There are so few original  1866 Central Fire rifles in this country. I would think we could count the number of them and not run out of fingers.

That comment got me to looking around. This article from the American Rifleman mentions the numbers made. They cite an estimate of about 2000 made by the factory with roughly half going to Brazil.

I'd love to see Uberti make a run with the correct receiver & carrier length, perhaps in .45 Auto-Rim or Schofield as well as HCF. With a run of rifles, perhaps Starline would make a run of drawn HCF brass, or one of the makers of lathe-turned cases would set up to make some (albeit at $2.50/case). Oh well, about as likely as a run of HRF...
Karl

Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: Original 1866 carbine in 44 Henry CF
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2020, 09:46:30 AM »

While I don't know the "why" (nobody does) none of the '66 Central Fire rifles were retailed in this country.  ALL of the manufacturing "run" went for export.  Central and South America and Europe.  The minuscule few that currently exist in THIS country had to have been re-patriated at some point.

If one wishes to replicate the Central Fire rifles with a current replicant, it's simple.  Source a '66 is 44 Special.  Then source a Carrier Block from "The Smith Shop" and run 44 Russian thru the rifle.  Capitol FUN you betcha.

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Re: Original 1866 carbine in 44 Henry CF
« Reply #10 on: Today at 01:33:17 AM »

Offline Dirty Dick

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Re: Original 1866 carbine in 44 Henry CF
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2020, 05:49:00 PM »
I would like to see  1866 Winchester/Uberti carbine in .44 Russian!
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Offline KWK

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Re: Original 1866 carbine in 44 Henry CF
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2020, 07:12:14 PM »
If one wishes to replicate the Central Fire rifles with a current replicant, it's simple. Source a '66 is 44 Special. Then source a Carrier Block from "The Smith Shop" and run 44 Russian thru the rifle.

For me, it's more the appearance than the performance. The modern replicas look a bit off, being stretched to accommodate the longer cartridges. For performance, one could always just load a .44-40 down to HRF levels.

Karl

Offline Big Goose

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Re: Original 1866 carbine in 44 Henry CF
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2020, 01:45:58 PM »
Howdy fellers!
  to answer a few questions...
  ndnchf -  Can you tell us more about the die you made to swage/bend the rim a little thicker?  Maybe a photo or two?  I know BACO does that for some of their other brass.

Well, not so much as a die really, I just filed the sharp edge off an old gasket hole punch ( it punched about 3/8th inch wads) to fit inside the modified 44 Sp. cases,  clamped that in the vise, slipped a short piece of hydraulic pipe( that the brass just fit into and cut just a bit shorter that the the length from the case mouth to the rim)--over the case; and then case onto the punch. The punch was positioned so that the hyd. tubing just rested on the edges of the vise face with the punch snug against the inside base of the case. Then I used another old hole punch(7/16") that I had ground the sharp edge flat, carefully positioned that on the base of the case and gave a gentle whack with a hammer.
  Not very scientific, but I got 100 cases done in less time than trying to explain it., and there were a few that I repositioned as the rim was a bit lopsided, but in the end they came out remarkably consistent  ( yes - should have taken some pictures...) 
 
nativeshootist-  How much ammo does it hold?

Aƞpétu wašté ... Well, it will hold nine for sure( I haven't tried more than that...)-- as you can probably see from the pictures, it has a short barrel.  almost certainly cut from the original length,( I think that Madis' Winchester book says that only a few dozen have been documented as less than 20" barrels) though it sure looks right. If it was bobbed from original, whoever did it knew what they were doing... right now it measures 16 & 3/8 " .

Coffinmaker-  While I don't know the "why" (nobody does) none of the '66 Central Fire rifles were retailed in this country.  ALL of the manufacturing "run" went for export.  Central and South America and Europe.  The minuscule few that currently exist in THIS country had to have been re-patriated at some point.

I dont know much about its history, except for the letter from Cody Firearms Museum:  says -

Type: Carbine
Caliber  44 CF
Received in warehouse on May 07, 1891
Shipped from warehouse on May 13,1891  Order number 4430
  I have read that  44 CF  model 1866 production is somewhere between 1200 and maybe 5000. , depending on the author of the source you're looking at....

Maybe Shrapnel has some better insight about that.

Alls I know is I always thought that I preferred long barreled rifles till I started totin' this little carbine through the woods. What a Joy!! ( you like short barreled guns, dont you Coffinmaker??
 I think you're on to something.... :D

That's all for now...
 Big Goose.

Offline ndnchf

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Re: Original 1866 carbine in 44 Henry CF
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2020, 02:09:07 PM »
Very interesting - thanks for the explanation.
"We're all travelers in this world.  From the sweet grass to the packing house, birth till death, we travel between the eternities"  Prentiss Ritter, Broken Trail

 

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