Author Topic: which is correct - .45 Colt or a .45 Long Colt?  (Read 2591 times)

Offline Bunk Stagnerg

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which is correct - .45 Colt or a .45 Long Colt?
« on: September 29, 2020, 01:52:16 PM »
Hello the Camp,
Is it a .45 Colt or a .45 Long Colt?
Or can it be either and be correct?
To settle a discussion
Thanks
Yr' Obt' Svt'
Bunk

Offline Cliff Fendley

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Re: which is correct - .45 Colt or a .45 Long Colt?
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2020, 01:58:59 PM »
45 Colt is the official designation.
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Offline Bunk Stagnerg

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Re: which is correct - .45 Colt or a .45 Long Colt?
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2020, 03:26:24 PM »
Thank you Cliff that is what I thought and you confirmed it.
Because that is what is stamped on the barrel of my Gen1 .45Colt single actions.
My Regards
Bunk

Offline Trailrider

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Re: which is correct - .45 Colt or a .45 Long Colt?
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2020, 03:53:17 PM »
"Either, Ither, Neither, Neyether, Let's call the whole thing off!"  You will get endless arguments on the question.  Originally and through the early 20th Century, the term was ".45 Colt" (technically, the gun was, ".45 Colt's Single Action Army Revolver" and the ammo was ".45 Colt's".  Where it got confusing was when the ammo was changed slightly by increasing the rim diameter to handle the ejector "star" on the Colt's and S&W guns with the swing-out cylinders.  Also, since the Army had quit loading the .45 Colt's when the ".45 Revolver Ball" (today know as .45 Schofield) replaced it, some commercial ammo sellers began advertising the original length ammo as ".45 Long Colt".  This was also probably to prevent confusion with the .45 ACP round. Today, most of us refer to the longer cartridge as ".45LC" and everybody knows what we mean.
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Offline Reverend P. Babcock Chase

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Re: which is correct - .45 Colt or a .45 Long Colt?
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2020, 04:38:50 PM »
Without regard to Trailriders accurate recitation of the history of the nomenclatures, it was, is and forever will correctly be .45 Colt.

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Re: which is correct - .45 Colt or a .45 Long Colt?
« Reply #5 on: Today at 07:17:52 PM »

Offline Santo Roberto

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Re: which is correct - .45 Colt or a .45 Long Colt?
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2020, 05:17:06 PM »
since there was never a 45 SHORT colt (yes I know there was a 45 US Army that was shorter) there was never a 'long'.....

Offline 1961MJS

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Re: which is correct - .45 Colt or a .45 Long Colt?
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2020, 08:40:26 PM »
"Either, Ither, Neither, Neyether, Let's call the whole thing off!"  You will get endless arguments on the question.  Originally and through the early 20th Century, the term was ".45 Colt" (technically, the gun was, ".45 Colt's Single Action Army Revolver" and the ammo was ".45 Colt's".  Where it got confusing was when the ammo was changed slightly by increasing the rim diameter to handle the ejector "star" on the Colt's and S&W guns with the swing-out cylinders.  Also, since the Army had quit loading the .45 Colt's when the ".45 Revolver Ball" (today know as .45 Schofield) replaced it, some commercial ammo sellers began advertising the original length ammo as ".45 Long Colt".  This was also probably to prevent confusion with the .45 ACP round. Today, most of us refer to the longer cartridge as ".45LC" and everybody knows what we mean.

Thanks Trailrider, I knew that the US Army issued .45 Schofield because it fit both the SAA and the Schofield, but I didn't know that the SAA was originally called .45 Colt's and that the original .45 Colt's was renamed to .45 LONG Colt.  I have a SAA that I can't shoot worth a damn, but I got a 95% on a 25 yard target with a .45 Schofield last weekend.

Later
Mike
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Offline Dave T

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Re: which is correct - .45 Colt or a .45 Long Colt?
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2020, 09:26:33 PM »
Today, most of us refer to the longer cartridge as ".45LC" and everybody knows what we mean.

...the SAA was originally called .45 Colt's and that the original .45 Colt's was renamed to .45 LONG Colt...

Sorry but most of us do not refer to it as ".45 LC". In fact I've never seen it so labeled. As for it being called ".45 Colt's", a quick perusal of my copy of "A Study of the COLT SINGLE ACTION ARMY REVOLVER" by Graham, Kopec, and Moore, doesn't show a single entry calling the cartridge anything but the 45 Colt let alone it being re-named a Long Colt.

I was always the 45 Colt and remains to this day as the 45 Colt. By what authority do a few ammo makers, by mislabeling some of their production as "Long Colt", get to change the name of a standard cartridge in use under the correct "45 Colt"  name since 1873?.

Dave

Offline Abilene

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Re: which is correct - .45 Colt or a .45 Long Colt?
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2020, 11:29:00 PM »
All true.  And I say 45 Colt.  But if someone says 45LC or 45 Long Colt, because they saw it on ammo boxes or whatever, I feel no need to correct them.   I also don't correct people for their/there, your/you're, etc.  I know what they mean, and easier to let 'em remain ignorant.   :)

Offline U.S.M.R.

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Re: which is correct - .45 Colt or a .45 Long Colt?
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2020, 08:24:37 AM »
Both Keith in Sixguns and Suydam in Cartridges and Handguns mention S&W length cartridges with Colt size rims by REM-UMC marked .45 Colt.  So there is probably some justification for .45 Long Colt.

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Re: which is correct - .45 Colt or a .45 Long Colt?
« Reply #10 on: Today at 07:17:52 PM »

Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: which is correct - .45 Colt or a .45 Long Colt?
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2020, 09:11:16 AM »
Ok.  Ok.  Ok.  There is not now, and historically never was a "45 Long Colt".  It is often acknowledged folks will know what you mean when saying 45LC or 45 Long Colt.  Some manufacturers even label their ammunition that way.

Historically:  The cartridge in question was always "45 Colt.  The military also contracted for, and issued 45 Schofield for the Army's 45 Schofield revolvers.  45 Schofield did not fit the chambers of Colt built guns.  the military then contracted for a cartridge, Schofield length, with 45 Colt rim diameter, and called it the 45 Government.

Most of the confusion stems from a whole passel of Magazine Scribes, purporting to "know it all" whom coined the term 45 Long Colt.  The term was parroted to the point it started to become gospel.  Gospel it is not.  45 Long Colt it is NOT.  Those whom advertised guns and ammunition as "45 Long Colt" are in a word, "IGNORANT." 

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PS:  I forgot.  The only reason for the .45 Government was the military desire for ammunition interchangeable between Colt Single Actions and Schofield Break Tops.  The cartridge had no other real purpose.  Some modern manufacturers have even begun to call their wares as "45 Long Colt."  That be some dumb.

PSS:  The usage of 45LC or 45 Long Colt in no way makes it correct.  Just a more common Parroted WRONG.  Historically, oft quoted Scribes such as E. Keith and Suydam were just as WRONG.  Just more parroted ignorance.

Offline 1961MJS

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Re: which is correct - .45 Colt or a .45 Long Colt?
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2020, 10:27:14 AM »
Hi

Serious question as opposed to just being a pot stirrer.  If there's no real .45 LONG Colt, and it's .45 Colt, why do all of the current manufacturers use the terminology .45 Long Colt?  It doesn't seem to fill a need.

Later
Mike
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Offline Jeremiah Jones

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Re: which is correct - .45 Colt or a .45 Long Colt?
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2020, 10:46:13 AM »
At some point, new terms gain enough traction/usage and become the new normal.  Do you ride around in your horseless carriage?  .45 LC it is.   ;D
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Offline U.S.M.R.

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Re: which is correct - .45 Colt or a .45 Long Colt?
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2020, 02:19:16 PM »
What I was trying to say was that after the introduction of the Rem-Umc cartridge people may have said they wanted.45 long Colt to mean they didn’t want the Rem-Umc round.  Before that there was no reason to say otherwise.

Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: which is correct - .45 Colt or a .45 Long Colt?
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2020, 04:00:50 PM »

61MJS and Jeremiah J.

Strictly a case of some terminology being Parroted enough, it becomes normal even if it's Wrong.  Ammunition manufacturers are not necessarily shooters.  They are business folks in business to make money.  They happen to market ammunition to make money.  If it seems to the money makers, they will gain more market share if they Parrot "Elmer" or some other famous scribes, they will immediately jump on that bandwagon, right or wrong.

Tell a lie long enough, loud enough and you'll begin to believe it.  .45 Long Colt doesn't fill a need.  The term became a marketing ploy.  In the UK, one doesn't Vacuum the carpet.  You "Hoover" it.  Even if your Vacuum happens to be a Kirby or a Dyson.

Citing the actions of manufacturers as a source of really good information can and will get one sat on a stool, in a corner, with a little pointy hat on.   

Offline DeaconKC

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Re: which is correct - .45 Colt or a .45 Long Colt?
« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2020, 05:49:55 PM »
There are many examples of this in our sport. .45 Colt vs. .45 Long Colt, Super .38 vs. .38 Super, grips vs. stocks, are revolvers pistols and maybe the greatest of them all clip vs. magazine. [Even though the U.S. Army called it a clip in their manuals on the 1911.] Marketing, writers, folks trying to explain what they mean, etc have all played a part in this. Some folks being inaccurate, drives them crazy. Others ignore it, some bother trying to explain it to newbies until their eyes glaze over. Oh, I forgot bullets vs. cartridges. And hearing cocking sounds on Glocks on TV shows...
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Offline Reverend P. Babcock Chase

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Re: which is correct - .45 Colt or a .45 Long Colt?
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2020, 06:25:53 PM »
What about some calling bullets "heads" or worse "bullet heads". At our shoots, just to get a rise out of someone, I refer to fired cartridges as "empty bullets" and shot shells as "shotgun bullets". I do know the correct names, but it's fun to watch folks react.

Offline Abilene

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Re: which is correct - .45 Colt or a .45 Long Colt?
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2020, 06:39:02 PM »
What about some calling bullets "heads" or worse "bullet heads". At our shoots, just to get a rise out of someone, I refer to fired cartridges as "empty bullets" and shot shells as "shotgun bullets". I do know the correct names, but it's fun to watch folks react.

Now that's funny!   ;D

Offline Niederlander

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Re: which is correct - .45 Colt or a .45 Long Colt?
« Reply #18 on: September 30, 2020, 06:41:52 PM »
A friend of mine and I used to drive the range officers of our agency nuts by asking things like "Do we get more bullets for our clips?"  We generally got an entirely satisfactory reply!
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Offline Crow Choker

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Re: which is correct - .45 Colt or a .45 Long Colt?
« Reply #19 on: September 30, 2020, 09:59:43 PM »
A friend of mine and I used to drive the range officers of our agency nuts by asking things like "Do we get more bullets for our clips?"  We generally got an entirely satisfactory reply!

Besides the Rev's post---this is funny too!  ;D ;D

Back years ago I called the 45 Colt, the 45 Long Colt because I saw that alot on ammo boxes and in some magazine articles. After I got edge-i-cated I referred to it as the 45 Colt, the 1911 fodder as 45acp, and all of the other off spring by whatever every one else called them. In my area it's pretty common to hear some refer cat-ridges as just "bullets", ie. "I'm out of bullets or I need to buy some bullets", sort of street slang verbalization! Some years back I called into a radio talk show after getting tired of the radio personality who was using "bullets" all the time in talking about some wack-o who shot up a place and all the "bullets that were shot and bullets found and how many bullets the magazine held after the police sent the shooter to meet his maker. Didn't even get on as the call screener told me I didn't know what I was talking about when I told her the difference between a bullet and a cartridge and her boss should be using the right terminology. She advised he knew what he was talking about. OK, whatever trips thee ol trigger.  :D ;D     45 Long Colt or 45 Colt, either works for me, I know what someone is referring to.
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