Author Topic: #1 Remington Sporting rifle - .44-77  (Read 3828 times)

Offline ndnchf

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Re: #1 Remington Sporting rifle - .44-77
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2020, 08:21:42 AM »
Hindsight being 20-20, I should have done a chamber cast first.  Had I done that I would have discovered there is a very thin and old case neck stuck in the chamber!  It is thin enough that a resized case will slip inside it.  I noticed that the shoulder of the chamber appeared to be kind of abrupt, and I wondered about it.  My first trip to the range yesterday and a look at the fired case confirmed it.  With a closer look at the chamber with a magnifier, I can barely discern the case neck. 

I have the action stripped down, the bore plugged and the chamber soaking in Kroil for a couple days.  After soaking a while, I'll try the oversized bronze bore brush trick. If that doesn't work, I'll make a Cerrosafe chamber cast around it and try to knock it out.  If that doesn't work, I may try a slightly modified Springfield 45-70 broken shell extractor.

On the positive side, I only fired 4 rounds but they all hit the target at 50 yards  ;D 
"We're all travelers in this world.  From the sweet grass to the packing house, birth till death, we travel between the eternities"  Prentiss Ritter, Broken Trail

Online Dave T

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Re: #1 Remington Sporting rifle - .44-77
« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2020, 09:07:33 AM »
ndnchf,

I'm reminded of Robert Heinlein's TANSTAAFL (there ain't no such thing as a free lunch). Looking forward to following your journey as you get your 44-77 shooting properly.

Old guy in AZ rooting for you,
Dave

Offline Blackpowder Burn

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Re: #1 Remington Sporting rifle - .44-77
« Reply #22 on: September 28, 2020, 06:44:23 PM »
Off topic, but Heinlein is still my favorite...............
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Offline Yellowhouse Sam

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Re: #1 Remington Sporting rifle - .44-77
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2020, 01:12:59 PM »
Theres always the spray inside with something very cold then the brush.
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Offline ndnchf

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Re: #1 Remington Sporting rifle - .44-77
« Reply #24 on: October 02, 2020, 09:46:35 AM »
I've tried the cold spray trick with an over sized bore brush - nope.  Then I made two different cerrosafe chamber casts. Then knocked them out hoping they would pull the piece out - nope.  I now have the bore plugged and the chamber filled with Bore Tech copper remover (ammonia free, and safe for barrel steel).  Since brass is made of a copper/zinc alloy, I want to see if it will break down the copper component, and weaken the case neck's grip.

But honestly, I'm starting to wonder if it is a brass case neck.  I cannot see a brass color to it, even on the edges.  Maybe its just many years of age/tarnish.  Or maybe its some type of steel sleeve, I'm just not sure.  As a way to test this, I put a .45 ACP case in a small container and covered it with the copper remover.  The liquid is starting to turn blue as expected from the copper dissolving. I'll gave the chamber another day or so to soak, then pour out the copper remover and see if it is turning blue.  If it is, then I'll assume it is a brass case neck. If not, then it  may be a piece of steel.??
"We're all travelers in this world.  From the sweet grass to the packing house, birth till death, we travel between the eternities"  Prentiss Ritter, Broken Trail

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Re: #1 Remington Sporting rifle - .44-77
« Reply #25 on: Today at 10:01:19 PM »

Offline ndnchf

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Re: #1 Remington Sporting rifle - .44-77
« Reply #25 on: October 03, 2020, 07:46:47 AM »
After 2 days of soaking the chamber with the copper remover, I poured it out and compared it to fresh solution on the left, and solution with a 45 ACP case on the right.

The chamber solution is a light green, while the 45 solution is a deep blue, clearly indicating copper is being dissolved. If it was a brass case neck stuck in the chamber, I expected it to be more blue. But I'm no chemist, so not sure what to make of the results. But I put fresh solution in the chamber again and will let it soak for a couple more days. Maybe its an old attemp at some kind of chamber repair. Very odd.
"We're all travelers in this world.  From the sweet grass to the packing house, birth till death, we travel between the eternities"  Prentiss Ritter, Broken Trail

Offline Kent Shootwell

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Re: #1 Remington Sporting rifle - .44-77
« Reply #26 on: October 03, 2020, 09:40:31 AM »
I feel your pain, sure looks like chamber sleeve gone bad.
Little powder much lead shoots far kills dead.
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Offline Niederlander

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Re: #1 Remington Sporting rifle - .44-77
« Reply #27 on: October 03, 2020, 10:41:23 AM »
I know it's not what you want to hear, but the upside of it is, if that barrel/chamber aren't salvageable, it would be an awesome rifle to rebarrel, with the obvious option you could make it whatever caliber you want.  Hope it works out for you this way, though.
"There go those Nebraskans, and all hell couldn't stop them!"

Offline ndnchf

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Re: #1 Remington Sporting rifle - .44-77
« Reply #28 on: October 03, 2020, 12:27:24 PM »
Yes, I think bubba ran an end mill in there, then jammed a sleeve in there. Who knows why. But the bottom line is the chamber is toast. Since the barrel was cut back long ago, this might have been done at the same time. Since the barrel is butchered at both ends, a new barrel is probably my best path forward.  It would be nice to have a full 30" barreled .44-77.
"We're all travelers in this world.  From the sweet grass to the packing house, birth till death, we travel between the eternities"  Prentiss Ritter, Broken Trail

Offline Yellowhouse Sam

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Re: #1 Remington Sporting rifle - .44-77
« Reply #29 on: October 05, 2020, 09:24:18 AM »
Well, you can re-sleeve, rebore or rebarrel  OR send it to C. Sharps and let them put you a new Green Mountain barrel on chambered in 44-70, 44-90 or 44-100.  That way you have a semblance of historic authenticity and you have easy to find brass (45-70; 45-90, and 45 2.6) .   I essentially had the same thing done to two sporters....one wound up 50-70 and the other 44-70.  C. Sharps does a fine job too and the barrels have a 7 degree chamber leade.
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Re: #1 Remington Sporting rifle - .44-77
« Reply #30 on: Today at 10:01:19 PM »

Offline ndnchf

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Re: #1 Remington Sporting rifle - .44-77
« Reply #30 on: October 05, 2020, 09:40:14 AM »
Well, you can re-sleeve, rebore or rebarrel  OR send it to C. Sharps and let them put you a new Green Mountain barrel on chambered in 44-70, 44-90 or 44-100.  That way you have a semblance of historic authenticity and you have easy to find brass (45-70; 45-90, and 45 2.6) .   I essentially had the same thing done to two sporters....one wound up 50-70 and the other 44-70.  C. Sharps does a fine job too and the barrels have a 7 degree chamber leade.

I've thought about that. I see they advertise Remington rolling block restoration work now.  Another option is to send it to JES Reboring to rebore to .50-70. The barrel would need to be set back about 1/2". Its about 22.5" now, so a 22" barrel wouldn't be much different.  That would salvage and keep the original barrel on it.
"We're all travelers in this world.  From the sweet grass to the packing house, birth till death, we travel between the eternities"  Prentiss Ritter, Broken Trail

Online Dave T

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Re: #1 Remington Sporting rifle - .44-77
« Reply #31 on: October 05, 2020, 10:23:38 AM »
ndnchf,

I liked the idea of your 44-77 but there's nothing wrong with a 50-70. That cartridge probably killed more buffalo than the 45-70 or the 44-77. There's a famous picture of Custer with his 50-70 RB (with a longer barrel) after a hunting trip in the Black Hills (I think). Anyway, it was a very popular cartridge in the early '70s.

Best of luck which ever way you go. Just keep us informed so we can live vicariously through your journey. (smile)

Dave

Offline Drydock

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Re: #1 Remington Sporting rifle - .44-77
« Reply #32 on: October 05, 2020, 10:46:38 AM »
A .50-70 Carbine is a fine thing indeed!


Civilize them with a Krag . . .

Offline ira scott

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Re: #1 Remington Sporting rifle - .44-77
« Reply #33 on: October 05, 2020, 09:59:23 PM »
A nice Remington R. B. restoration story,    s://americanshootingjournal.com/remington-round-top-rolling-block-restored/?amp-wp-skip-redirect=1http

Mike
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Offline ndnchf

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Re: #1 Remington Sporting rifle - .44-77
« Reply #34 on: October 06, 2020, 07:45:38 AM »
I AM fond of the .50-70, I have three .50-70 rifles already.  But the mystique of the .44-77 is alluring!  Reboring to .50-70 would also require the forearm screw tenon dovetail to be moved. The distance may not be enough for a full new dovetail, it may overlap the existing one.  So its another complication.  It I made it a .50-90, the barrel would not need to be set back, but it would be a bruiser carbine!

Green Mountain has a #4 profile .44-77 barrel with 1-17 twist that would be perfect.  This is a tempting way to go also.  I could go 30 or 32" length.  That would tame the .44-77 recoil nicely. 

Decisions, Decisions....

Ira - I'd like to read that article, but the link you provided didn't work for me.
"We're all travelers in this world.  From the sweet grass to the packing house, birth till death, we travel between the eternities"  Prentiss Ritter, Broken Trail

Offline Niederlander

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Re: #1 Remington Sporting rifle - .44-77
« Reply #35 on: October 06, 2020, 08:01:50 AM »
Half octagon, half round barrels look really nice on Remingtons................just throwing it out there!
"There go those Nebraskans, and all hell couldn't stop them!"

Offline Kent Shootwell

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Re: #1 Remington Sporting rifle - .44-77
« Reply #36 on: October 06, 2020, 08:16:59 AM »
Or you could have it full length sleeved and keep it a 44/77 with a bright new shiny bore and the the original outside.
Little powder much lead shoots far kills dead.
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Offline Drydock

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Re: #1 Remington Sporting rifle - .44-77
« Reply #37 on: October 06, 2020, 09:10:04 AM »
I'd go with a new barrel, and set the whole thing up just the way YOU want. 
Civilize them with a Krag . . .

Offline Black River Smith

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Re: #1 Remington Sporting rifle - .44-77
« Reply #38 on: October 06, 2020, 12:06:37 PM »
ndnchf,

I have been following this post since you first posted.  I was happy for you for such a great rifle find in a great caliber.  I am sorry you are having to go through all this extra expense and effort.   But if you have the time and means then I believe in keeping it as original as can be or back to its original 30" length.  Leaving it in it original 44/77 caliber.

I always wanted a 44/77 caliber Remington Rolling Block.
Black River Smith

Offline ndnchf

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Re: #1 Remington Sporting rifle - .44-77
« Reply #39 on: October 06, 2020, 12:57:12 PM »
Yes, it is a bit disappointing. But I've been playing with old rifles for nearly 40 years and come to expect ups and downs with them.  At this point, I'm looking forward not back.  I've never had a .44-77, but find it very interesting from a historical perspective.  The short barrel is not ideal for this big cartridge. The opportunity to restore it to a 30" or 32" barrel would allow it to reach its real potential.  The Green Mountain barrel would be ideal.  My aging eyes can still use a good vernier sight. But at some point a period telescopic sight may be the way to go. I wouldn't feel bad drilling and tapping a new barrel vs an original barrel.  There are a lot of things to weigh in deciding which way to go  :P

 
"We're all travelers in this world.  From the sweet grass to the packing house, birth till death, we travel between the eternities"  Prentiss Ritter, Broken Trail

 

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