Author Topic: Found: ASM 44 caliber 1860 Army  (Read 548 times)

Offline paperchaser

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Found: ASM 44 caliber 1860 Army
« on: September 12, 2020, 03:15:36 PM »
Quick story, this particular item was packed during a home office "reorganization" (many years ago); Found today. :)

If I knew how to take a picture with my phone and get to the computer I'd send photos; will ask my 8 year old grandson for tech support.


Details:
7 1/5" octagonal barrel;  with ASM BLACK POWDER ONLY CAL. 44 MADE IN ITALY  on loading side(right side)
walnut grips (I'm assuming)
PATENT No.  engraved on cylinder
Cylinder engraved with naval battle scene
Serial number: E72216  on the frame forward the brass trigger guard (no number on trigger guard)

In the meantime, I'd like to pose a few questions, please,  to all the darksiders here:
1.  I assume 3F powder would be best
2.  #10 caps ??
3.  I've considered using some paper cartridges but maybe not.

Otherwise, I think I'll really enjoy shooting it, but probably not in a match.  Think I'll get one of those reloading stands  :D

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Offline Fingers McGee

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Re: Found: ASM 44 caliber 1860 Army
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2020, 04:48:53 PM »
Details:
7 1/5" octagonal barrel;  with ASM BLACK POWDER ONLY CAL. 44 MADE IN ITALY  on loading side(right side)
walnut grips (I'm assuming)
PATENT No.  engraved on cylinder
Cylinder engraved with naval battle scene
Serial number: E72216  on the frame forward the brass trigger guard (no number on trigger guard)

In the meantime, I'd like to pose a few questions, please,  to all the darksiders here:
1.  I assume 3F powder would be best
2.  #10 caps ??
3.  I've considered using some paper cartridges but maybe not.

Otherwise, I think I'll really enjoy shooting it, but probably not in a match.  Think I'll get one of those reloading stands  :D

1. My normal 44 cal BP steel framed revolver loading is 25-27 gr fffg, lubed felt wad and .454 cast roundball
2.  I use #10 Remington caps. They seem to fit anything I use them on.  Stay away from CCIs
3.  I've rolled paper cartidges in the past and found them to be more trouble than they're worth.  There seems to be a resurgence in them though. The forums and Facebook are full of people doing it
Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee;
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Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: Found: ASM 44 caliber 1860 Army
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2020, 05:06:06 PM »

 ;D   PLUS ONE too Fingers McGee   ;D

Although I normally top out at 20Gr, 3f APP   :D

Offline Crow Choker

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Re: Found: ASM 44 caliber 1860 Army
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2020, 07:02:16 PM »
Neat find. What fingers said, although I run 28-30 grains of FFF, lubed felt wad, .454" cast balls in my 1860 Colt Army and Pietta 1851 Navy--both 44's. On the subject of paper cartridges, I've read about them, studied how to make, but just don't want to take the time to roll em. Better things to do. Some guys think they're the bees-nees, but I actually like to load a cap gun with the rammer. If I want to go "modern", I have four Colt style conversions to stuff black loaded brass ammo into. The paper rollers like rollin their ammo, fine with me, just not for me.
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Offline paperchaser

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Re: Found: ASM 44 caliber 1860 Army
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2020, 10:20:46 AM »
Thanks for the great comments and ideas;
I have definitely decided NOT to try paper cartridges; I believe I can load 5 chambers faster than making (then loading) 5 paper cartridges.
Gotta go find some #10 caps; maybe Bass Pro or Academy Sports.
Will post an after shoot report.  :)
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Re: Found: ASM 44 caliber 1860 Army
« Reply #5 on: Today at 05:21:45 AM »

Offline wildman1

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Re: Found: ASM 44 caliber 1860 Army
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2020, 10:33:50 AM »
Thanks for the great comments and ideas;
I have definitely decided NOT to try paper cartridges; I believe I can load 5 chambers faster than making (then loading) 5 paper cartridges.
Gotta go find some #10 caps; maybe Bass Pro or Academy Sports.
Will post an after shoot report.  :)
I can load five chambers with a flask almost as fast as someone can load five with paper cartridges.
wM1
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Offline hellgate

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Re: Found: ASM 44 caliber 1860 Army
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2020, 07:32:57 PM »
I'm suspicious you do not have an 1860 Army. Most likely it is an 1851 "Navy" 44 cal (I have 3 ASMs in this configuration). The 1860 Army has a round 8" barrel and the Navy has the octagon 7 1/2" barrel with a post/bead front sight. I love mine. They have the feel, pointability and heft of the 36 Navy with the punch of the 44 Army. I'm surprised that Sam Colt himself didn't come up with the idea of such a nice blend.
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Offline greyhawk

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Re: Found: ASM 44 caliber 1860 Army
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2020, 07:42:37 PM »
I'm suspicious you do not have an 1860 Army. Most likely it is an 1851 "Navy" 44 cal (I have 3 ASMs in this configuration). The 1860 Army has a round 8" barrel and the Navy has the octagon 7 1/2" barrel with a post/bead front sight. I love mine. They have the feel, pointability and heft of the 36 Navy with the punch of the 44 Army. I'm surprised that Sam Colt himself didn't come up with the idea of such a nice blend.

Yep - I have one of those - likewise love it -

Offline Lucky R. K.

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Re: Found: ASM 44 caliber 1860 Army
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2020, 09:48:25 AM »
7 1/5" octagonal barrel;  with ASM BLACK POWDER ONLY CAL. 44 MADE IN ITALY  on loading side(right side)
Cylinder engraved with naval battle scene

That says 1851 Navy to me.
Lucky.

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Offline paperchaser

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Re: Found: ASM 44 caliber 1860 Army
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2020, 02:02:49 PM »
Thanks for the update and I apologize for calling it an Army rather than Navy.  First I've ever had; previously I only had the 1858 Remingtons.  So my ignorance showed, oh well,
now that I'v advanced to the Elder Statesman category maybe my club guys will cut me a little slck  :)

Went shopping today"
1.  Nary a single #10 percussion cap box in stock (except CCI)
2.  Found 2,000 Federal Large Pistol primers (all they had; I'll use them for 44 Colt and 44 Russian)
3.  Found 23,000 Federal Small Pistol Match primers (I was a gentleman and only purchased 3,000)

Was asked didn't I want some Pyrodex 30 grain pellets since they would be "quicker" than flask and wad and ball;  politely relied "I'll pass"
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Re: Found: ASM 44 caliber 1860 Army
« Reply #10 on: Today at 05:21:45 AM »

Offline Abilene

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Re: Found: ASM 44 caliber 1860 Army
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2020, 03:18:24 PM »
Well, a .44 Navy is not a "real" Navy, so you can call it whatever you like!  Looks like a Navy (except the cylinder), barks like an Army.

Offline Crow Choker

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Re: Found: ASM 44 caliber 1860 Army
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2020, 04:42:07 PM »
I'm another fan of the 'gun that never was', a 51 Navy look a like with the octagon barrel and grip frame but with a rebated cylinder and chambered in 44 like the 60 Army. The Pietta is one of my favorite shooters along with a 44 Army and several Dragoons. I like the looks and heft, not to mention I like 44's over the 36's. I did read once by one writer that Colt was working on chambering the 51 Navy in 44, but the end effect was the development 1860 Army. My first cap n' ball was a Euroarms 51 Navy bought back in 1972, but with the rebated cylinder and in 44 caliber. I like it better than the original 36 caliber model. It was stamped 'Army Model'-I was so ignorant of the real facts I thought it was an actual 1851 model Colt but designed and issued to the Army back in the day. You don't know what I and another friend who bought one at the same time thought the cylinder engraving was until advised by another friend who was more informed. He still gives me a dig once in a while. OK, we thought the cylinder was all scratched up without looking closely.

paperchaser----- Reference to caps. I have used CCI #11's before, they're approx the same internal diameter as Rem 10's, but with a shorter skirt. For the most part haven't had trouble with them staying on the nipples when firing, but prefer and use Rem 10's 99.458% of the time. Stay away from CCI #10's--they're so tight I've only had one set of nipples they even go halfway on. Sitting with around 5 tins of them, no use for.
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Offline paperchaser

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Re: Found: ASM 44 caliber 1860 Army
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2020, 08:54:43 AM »
I'm another fan of the 'gun that never was', a 51 Navy look a like with the octagon barrel and grip frame but with a rebated cylinder and chambered in 44 like the 60 Army. The Pietta is one of my favorite shooters along with a 44 Army and several Dragoons. I like the looks and heft, not to mention I like 44's over the 36's. I did read once by one writer that Colt was working on chambering the 51 Navy in 44, but the end effect was the development 1860 Army. My first cap n' ball was a Euroarms 51 Navy bought back in 1972, but with the rebated cylinder and in 44 caliber. I like it better than the original 36 caliber model. It was stamped 'Army Model'-I was so ignorant of the real facts I thought it was an actual 1851 model Colt but designed and issued to the Army back in the day. You don't know what I and another friend who bought one at the same time thought the cylinder engraving was until advised by another friend who was more informed. He still gives me a dig once in a while. OK, we thought the cylinder was all scratched up without looking closely.

paperchaser----- Reference to caps. I have used CCI #11's before, they're approx the same internal diameter as Rem 10's, but with a shorter skirt. For the most part haven't had trouble with them staying on the nipples when firing, but prefer and use Rem 10's 99.458% of the time. Stay away from CCI #10's--they're so tight I've only had one set of nipples they even go halfway on. Sitting with around 5 tins of them, no use for.

I'm spoiled all I ever used were the Remington #10; besides it was a Remington shooter. ;D
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Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: Found: ASM 44 caliber 1860 Army
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2020, 09:57:05 AM »

PLUS ONE too Crow Choker   ;D

Yepper.  I are a huge fan of Pietta "Never Never" guns.  I am well enamored of the "Navy" pattern .44s  and I have four sets of them.  Although I must admit, mine have somewhat shorter barrels than most  ::)  And some have Cartridge conversion cylinders.  Except for the Conversions, I was never a fan of the 1860.  Just didn't appeal.  Now, convert an 1860 to cartridge and hang an ejector assembly off the side ......  ;)

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Offline Capt Quirk

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Re: Found: ASM 44 caliber 1860 Army
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2020, 07:42:49 PM »
@ Coffinmaker- What? No pics? ???

Offline wildman1

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Re: Found: ASM 44 caliber 1860 Army
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2020, 06:28:09 AM »
All I use are CCI's 10's and 11's. My wife uses Rem 10's. I find the CCI 11's are about the same fit as Rem 10's. A few years back I bought some cylinders from a gent for $10 apiece some of the nipples had been modified but they all took the CCI 11 the others that I have take CCI 10 caps I've tried Rem 10's and they don't seem to fit right. Try some CCI 11's they should be the close to the same as the Rems.
wM1
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Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: Found: ASM 44 caliber 1860 Army
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2020, 10:22:45 AM »

Capt Quirk,

Sorry, no.  I have never been able to post on this forum.  I gave up trying.

Offline greyhawk

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Re: Found: ASM 44 caliber 1860 Army
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2020, 06:01:18 PM »
Capt Quirk,

Sorry, no.  I have never been able to post on this forum.  I gave up trying.

1) take the picture with ya phone (dont need a fancy one mine is a chinee copy of a ten year old samsung )
2) tap the screen email the picture to yr computer (that automatically resizes it so's it aint too big to post
3) find it in yr email click it , file it in folder called gunstuff or such, call it sumptin (like sawed off capgun no 387)
4) when ya wanna show us just hit the browse button - go find picture - in said file , click , come back here , upload it
tis an easy deal 

Offline Abilene

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Re: Found: ASM 44 caliber 1860 Army
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2020, 10:02:28 PM »
All you have to do is tell Coffinmaker that it is as easy as cutting off a barrel!   :D

Offline greyhawk

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Re: Found: ASM 44 caliber 1860 Army
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2020, 10:58:04 PM »
All you have to do is tell Coffinmaker that it is as easy as cutting off a barrel!   :D

easier -- but he proly got the stubborns about it -- I dont blame him for that we bein manipulatwed by these technoverts .........

 

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