Author Topic: USA or Uberti?  (Read 233 times)

Offline beefmalone

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USA or Uberti?
« on: July 26, 2020, 01:52:47 PM »
I was looking at this gun but it has me confused a bit. The barrel says
so I thought that meant for sure that it's a parts gun.

However, I also read somewhere that the loading gate pivot on parts guns has a gap. This one does not.


Also, the serial number is P13595 which I can't find that style number anywhere. Thoughts?  ???




Offline Dave T

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Re: USA or Uberti?
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2020, 02:00:13 PM »
USFA turned out a lot of guns with mixed parts. That is an Italian barrel and front sight. Because the flutes on the cylinder are pointed instead of rounded at the back end I would guess an Italian cylinder. Something about the sweep of the hammer spur makes me think that it's not a US made hammer.

It could be an early US made/sourced frame was finished with Uberti parts they had on hand. Hope others who know this stuff even better will be able to give you more info.

Dave

Online Abilene

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Re: USA or Uberti?
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2020, 02:22:35 PM »
That serial number sounds like a Cimarron Model P.  Is it possible someone might have put a USPFA barrel on a Cimarron Uberti?  Although seeing the firing pin bushing probably rules that out right away, unless that was added as well.

Offline Capt. John Fitzgerald

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Re: USA or Uberti?
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2020, 02:33:53 PM »
Greetings, Beefmalone, and welcome to our forum!
Your gun is an all Italian parts gun that was made sometime either during, or prior to, 1996 when Colt took umbrige at USFA's use of the word "patent" in their name and threatened legal action to have it removed (as USFA held no patents on the Colt designed SAA).  That's when USPFA became USFA.
Those very early guns were at first imported in whole and in the white and finished by USPFA.  Second stage were all Italian parts imported in the white and then assembled and finished by both USPFA & USFA. It wasn't until 2001/02 that USFA started manufacturing their own parts in ernest.  Serial numbers on those early guns were issued by Uberti to satisfy import requirements.  Don't know when, exactly, USFA started issuing their own numbers.
CJF
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Offline Buckaroo Lou

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Re: USA or Uberti?
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2020, 02:56:37 PM »
I once had a USPFA and the serial number was preceded with the letter P as well but was thinking there were 6 numbers. I can't remember for certain but it seemed like there were more numbers than just 5. Since the color case hardening is pretty faded in the photos it is hard to tell, but on the USPFA firearm I had the CC looked much better and was more akin to the Turnbull style with rich colors.

My opinion is it is an Italian parts gun, but cannot explain why there is no square cornered gap showing at the loading gate pivot.
A man's true measure is found not in what he says but in what he does.

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Re: USA or Uberti?
« Reply #5 on: Today at 07:53:49 PM »

Offline beefmalone

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Re: USA or Uberti?
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2020, 03:06:39 PM »
Well, since the consensus seems to be it isn't 100% USA (if nothing else)...here's more info. :D

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/874314428

Offline Capt. John Fitzgerald

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Re: USA or Uberti?
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2020, 03:31:43 PM »
Beef,
That gun was definitely NOT "manufactured in the original old Colt Armory, under the blue dome." It was manufactured by Uberti in Italy.
As for the "Jesse Wales" inscription on the back strap, I would avoid it for that reason alone. Personalized inscriptions on firearms (or anything for that matter) tend to decrease resale value.
Sans the inscription, I would place the value of this gun, if in pristine condition, and at auction, in the $500 to $600 range at the extreme most - and only then because it is a very early example of the USFA line with a finish that was, back then, superior to that offered by Uberti and might, and I express "might," be of interest to a dedicated collector of USFA firearms. 
I, for one, would not be interested.
CJF
You can't change the wind, but you can always change your sails.

Offline beefmalone

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Re: USA or Uberti?
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2020, 05:09:53 PM »
yeah it was a big drawback if it'd been a USA gun but a dealbreaker at that price for a Uberti  :-\

Offline yahoody

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Re: USA or Uberti?
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2020, 07:55:47 PM »
Back in the day when USPFA was selling what were clearly fancy Ubertis guns "built under the blue dome"  I sure wasn't impressed with what they were doing.  Pure and simple hype on  the part of USPFA and later USFA for a good bit of time later.  And Ubertis were not nearly the gun a current Uberti is today...because in part  of the later USFA guns.

Almost as much hype today on the Internet auction sites trying and generally selling those same fancy Ubertis for big $.  USPFA is a clear sign of the Uberti label underneath the guns.  At around 23000 serial number and better yet, 24000 you'll have a USFA made gun.  The specific serial number changes for USA made parts and much more are listed at the pistolsmith blog.

The gate opening and my photos (and long published info) that Ten Ring has simply copied and uses on his web site doesn't always tell the story because all sorts of Italian made parts went through the USPFA prior and USFA later.  You'd think he'd know better but obviously not.
"time leaves tombstones or dry bones"  SASS #2903

 

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