Author Topic: Peru in the era of expansion  (Read 574 times)

Offline Books OToole

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Peru in the era of expansion
« on: July 11, 2020, 01:30:45 PM »
As mentioned in a different thread, I have acquired a few "agency" marked Smith & Wessons.

One (the middle one in the photo) is marked with the crest of Peru (close up).  It was shipped in 1908 as part of a batch of 500.

I am looking for illustrations of the Peruvian uniforms of that era.

And as "none of us are as smart as all of us,"  I have presented the challenge to "The Barracks."

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Offline Books OToole

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Re: Peru in the era of expansion
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2020, 01:32:48 PM »
Here is the other photo that didn't take.
Again, the middle one is the Peruvian pistol. (a S&W, DA 4th model .38)

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Re: Peru in the era of expansion
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2020, 01:43:20 PM »
I like it. Most of the top breaks came with the 3 1/4 or 1 1/2" barrel, I like the looks of the longer one.

I have no idea what sort of uniform would have went with it. That's the era when most armies of the world were shifting from some shade of blue, to some shade of khaki.

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Re: Peru in the era of expansion
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2020, 03:59:25 PM »

The Peruvian Military troops that took down Butch and Sundance (in the movie) wore Khaki.  the movies always get it "right" so it must be   :o ;D

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Re: Peru in the era of expansion
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2020, 04:32:04 PM »
 except Butch & Sundance were in Bolivia .....  ;D
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Re: Peru in the era of expansion
« Reply #5 on: Today at 07:31:53 PM »

Online Drydock

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Civilize them with a Krag . . .

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Re: Peru in the era of expansion
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2020, 04:41:07 PM »
Civilize them with a Krag . . .

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Re: Peru in the era of expansion
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2020, 04:59:25 PM »
I know that France set up a military mission in Peru in 1896,  thus I believe there was a great deal of French influence in the Peruvian army up to WW1.
Civilize them with a Krag . . .

Offline Books OToole

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Re: Peru in the era of expansion
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2020, 07:18:52 PM »
Hiram Bingham is credited with discovering Macchu-Pichu in 1911.  He was accompanied by a guide and a Peruvian policeman.  I think that this is a photo of the policeman. (Civil Guardia?)
I would like confirmation. [Help]

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PS - new research - Photo is of Sergeant Carrasco July 1911 at Macchu-Pichu.
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Offline Books OToole

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Re: Peru in the era of expansion
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2020, 08:00:41 PM »
Another photo of Macchu-Pichu discoverers.
Different man in uniform which does have a French look.
(Still no sign of side-arm or holster.)

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Re: Peru in the era of expansion
« Reply #10 on: Today at 07:31:53 PM »

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Civilize them with a Krag . . .

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Re: Peru in the era of expansion
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2020, 09:47:03 PM »
Shouldn't be too hard to come up with. Red trousers and a modified USCW Frock coat. The one in the middle has more of a sack coat, with standing collar and seven buttons. White summer uniforms look like a CW Shell jacket, but done in white canvas. But the hard part to get right from these kind of pictures is the collar and cuff details. Looks like a lot of French influence in their uniforms, but the only rifle identifiable is a Martini. I would have expected Rolling blocks, in that time period, since most every S.A. country seemed to use them at one time or another.

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Re: Peru in the era of expansion
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2020, 09:51:58 PM »
Just a minute, got out my "Remington Rolling Block Military Rifles of the World"  Peru's standard arm for its (Very Small) army at the time was indeed the Martini -Peabody rifle.  Sold as overruns from Peabodys unpaid Ottoman contracts.  During the war they bought 14000 .43 Spanish rolling blocks direct from Remington.  The Peabodys and Rolling blocks would arm Peru until they bought M1891 Mausers from Argentina in the early 1890's.
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Re: Peru in the era of expansion
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2020, 06:38:35 AM »
So by the 1908 time frame of Books' revolver, the primary arm probably would have been the 1891 Mauser, with maybe a roller as a secondary issue?

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Re: Peru in the era of expansion
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2020, 09:19:26 AM »
I would agree with that.
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Offline Books OToole

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Re: Peru in the era of expansion
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2020, 09:46:25 AM »
I would agree with that.

Can we establish that the S&W DA .38 was a military issue side arm?  It seems a little light.

I am leaning to the S&Ws being issued to Federalies.  I seem to recall a Civil Guardia "unit" that would be a likely recipient of the .38 S&Ws. (Federal Police / Militia?)

I went through the process that you all are following and was frustrated by the gap.  Meaning I could find good images for 1860-90 and then it jumps to modern.

Drydock mentions "very small" army.  Do we have an accurate size/number?  There were 2 shipments of 500 S&Ws to Peru.  Does 1000 pistols equate to all military personnel who would be issued a sider arm?

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Re: Peru in the era of expansion
« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2020, 02:20:57 PM »
Books do you have a serial number range for the Peruvian S&W 38DA's. Picked one up in 2007 and replaced the side plate with a stock nickle S&W plate. I don't know if that pistol is still in my collection. Pic is of the Peru side plate now in my parts box.
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Offline Books OToole

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Re: Peru in the era of expansion
« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2020, 03:18:45 PM »
According to The Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson:

535553-536052 and 536553-537052.

Two batches of 500. (I don't know why it wasn't one batch of 1000)

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Re: Peru in the era of expansion
« Reply #18 on: July 12, 2020, 04:40:54 PM »
In 1900, if Wikipedia is right, the Peruvian army in all branchs numbered  3075 men.  Total.  Split between 6 infantry battalions. 2 cavalry regiments, and an artillery regiment.

Assuming no great growth in the next 8 years, a very safe assumption I believe, 1000 revolvers would probably be plenty.

If you made it as far as 1890, i'd bet that lasted until ww1.  Nothing involving the army happened in Peru until 1911.
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Re: Peru in the era of expansion
« Reply #19 on: July 12, 2020, 06:57:49 PM »
I would add this was the time world wide when many militarys were transitioning to small bore smokeless handguns : .30s, 8mms and the like.   A .38 S&W would be a reasonable caliber for many.
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