Author Topic: Trying to understand '73 firing pin differences on Cimarron and Navy Arms.  (Read 390 times)

Offline Buckaroo Lou

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I have a situation I hope you guys can help me with. I have two Uberti Winchester 1873 replicas. One is imported by Cimarron and is a Deluxe Sporting Rifle with pistol grip the other is a Navy Arms Sporting Rifle with a straight stock. What I have discovered is that the firing pins on the two rifles function differently, I think.
 
The firing pin on the Cimarron is spring loaded and extends past the rear of the receiver about 3/16”. It can be easily pushed in and out approximately 3/32” so the firing pin engages the primer when the hammer strikes it when fired. The spring loaded firing pin pushes in and out easily whether the rifle hast the lever fully closed and ready to fire or the hammer is at half cock.

The firing pin on the Navy Arms is also spring loaded but extends past the rear of the receiver about 3/8”, about twice as much as the Cimarron, and is much harder to push in when the lever is closed and the rifle is ready to fire. It requires more striking force from the hammer on the end of the firing pin for it to engage the primer. The firing pin moves forward about 3/32” like on the Cimarron but instead of spring back when the hammer is brought to half cock as it does on the Cimarron it remains in until the lever is moved downward about 2”. As the lever is moved downward the firing pin moves ever so slightly rearward and you hear a slight click and the firing pin then springs rearward ready for another round.

At first I thought the firing pin on the Navy Arms was sticking, but I have lubricated everywhere I believe there is contact. Also, when the lever is most of the way open and the hammer fully cocked you can push on the rear of the firing pin and it goes in and out with ease just as on the Cimarron.

How does your Uberti 1873 firing pin work and who is the importer?

Understand I am doing this with the rifles unloaded and am not chambering any rounds. Just checking the movement of the firing pins.
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Offline Cliff Fendley

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The bolt is likely moving up and binding the firing pin extension on the Navy Arms. Chamber a piece of empty brass to line things up and see if it still does it.
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Offline Coffinmaker

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 :)  PLUS ONE too Cliff Fendly   ;)

The two firing pins operate exactly the same.  Manufactured exactly the same.  Almost.  Well after Navy Arms "disappeared" Uberti did change the firing pin itself to a longer "head" to make more positive contact the the Extension Rod.

It is also not uncommon for the Extension Rod to bind in the recess at the rear of the Breach Block and/or in the bore thru the frame.  As long as the firing pin operates as it is suppose to with a round chambered (Dummy Round Please) there are no worries.

When building a Toggle Link rifle for CAS, I always polish the Extension rod and the recess in the Breach Block.

Offline Buckaroo Lou

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I chambered an unprimed round into the Navy Arms, but the last 3/4" of closing the lever seems tight and when the hammer drops the bolt does not appear to move and you cannot push it in with your finger. It is like seized and cannot engage and push the firing pin nor does it spring rearward when bringing to half cock. However, I primed a case, chambered it, pulled the trigger and it fired the primer. I checked the primer and it has a good indentation, so it apparently is engaging the firing pin. Strange as it does not function in the same manner as the Cimarron. Yes, basically they are the same having a two part firing pin, the bolt and the actual firing pin inside that part that has the extractor attached to it. Sorry, I don't know what to call it.

One thing I forgot to mention the Cimarron is .45 Colt and the Navy Arms is .44-40. I have shot the Cimarron on several occasions but have not yet shot the Navy Arms. Since the Navy Arms fires the primed cases I chambered I guess I don't have the problem I thought I had.
A man's true measure is found not in what he says but in what he does.

Offline Slamfire

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Well sucks Buck,, that last line said it all " 1 is a 45LC & the other is a 44-40 ",, they are not com-pat- able !!, better send me that 44-40 , it will be com-pat-able w/ my 44-40 ,,( heh-he-he-he  ;D ). Guns are like woman ,,, no two are a like ,, and all are a mystery. ;)

 coffee's ready ,, Hootmix.

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Offline Buckaroo Lou

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Slamfire, I love your humor. ;D

I don't own a single action in 44-40 yet. Wish I did.

Several years back I inherited quite a bit of 44-40 ammo and needed a firearm to shoot it and that was the reason I picked up the Navy Arms rifle. I bought it at a local gun show a few years ago at a bargain and just put it away. I have been wanting to get it out and take it to the range but seems like something is always getting in the way. I recently purchased another '73, a Miroku Winchester and want to take it to the range as well. I am hoping to take both the Navy Arms and the new Winchester to the range soon.
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Offline wildman1

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Check the back of the bolt where the FP extension fits and make sure there are no burrs in it or on the FP extension. It may need a little polishing.
wM1
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Offline Buckaroo Lou

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Thanks for the info guys. I ordered a couple of little parts that I want to replace. I want to put the newer style trigger safety spring on and replace the hammer spring adjustment screw as it is a little bit buggered by the previous owner. I will examine the breech block housing then as well to see if there might be any burs or rough spots.
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Offline Buckaroo Lou

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I took the rifle apart and checked the breach housing and bolt. I polished the rub spots I found on the breach housing and polished up where the bolt fit inside the breach housing. The bolt felt rough when pushed into the breach housing. After polishing the bolt it pushed in and out with ease and no rough spots at all. I reassembled and everything works perfect now.

From the tutorial videos I watched on disassembly, the disassembly of the bolt housing and bolt on my Navy Arms was not the same as in the video. They both function the same but are not made the same. The one in the video showed removing the two pivot pins that the toggle links pivot on, and once removed there is a key you remove on the breach housing and then the bolt can be extracted from the breach housing. On my Navy Arms the front pivot pin is an integral part of the breach block and back pin is a part of the frame and appears they cannot be removed. However, there is a small drive pin on the breach housing just above the pivot pin you must remove and once removed the bolt can be removed from the breach housing.
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Offline Abilene

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Howdy Lou.  Uberti changed to the new method of securing the firing pin extension into the bolt maybe 10 or 15 (?) years ago.  With the old method, that little pin can shear in an out-of-battery discharge and send the FP extension into the shooters cheek or eye.  If you ever need a new bolt or extension you will have to buy the whole new assembly.

Glad to hear it is all working smoothly now.

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