Author Topic: 1860 Henry Iron frame  (Read 1439 times)

Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: 1860 Henry Iron frame
« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2020, 10:07:22 AM »

OK.  I'd like to take a moment here to "Poke my Finger" in yer eye.  Using 45 ACP dies to load 45 Colt, or 45 Schofield, or Cowboy 45 Special is a mistake.  It isn't that you can't get away with it, in some instances you can.  Just because you "can" doesn't mean you should. 

For a toggle link rifle, the case mouth really NEEDS to be roll crimped to feed properly.  The Breach face for the barrel is often (usually) machined flat.  A round with the case mouth exposed will hang up on the breach face or even be "sticky" in the cartridge channel of the Carrier Block.  That taper crimp is also going to result in some "Turtles."  I strongly suggest you invest in some correct 45 Colt dies.

Offline Slamfire

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Re: 1860 Henry Iron frame
« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2020, 04:45:44 PM »
 I'm with Mr. Coffin,, need more crimp,, also from the last photo of the mag. hole , the top " appears to be a shade longer than the bottom ,, or it could just be the angle of the photo.

  coffee's raedy ,, Hootmix.

Offline Trailrider

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Re: 1860 Henry Iron frame
« Reply #22 on: May 31, 2020, 05:27:05 PM »
:)  Curtis264   ;)

Without further adieu, allow me to opine, you may well be using the wrong bullet.  And you most definitely have a "Crimp" problem, as in "no" Crimp.  To run correctly, you ammunition requires a good positive Roll Crimp into a Crimp groove.  Start solving the problem there.
Can you show us a photo with a dummy cartridge on the elevator? Would need a view looking straight down into the action with the lever closed enough to show where the jam is occurring.  BTW, does the lockup occur when you try to close the action with no ammo on the elevator?
Ride to the sound of the guns, but watch out for bushwhackers! Godspeed to all in harm's way in the defense of Freedom! God Bless America!

Your obedient servant,
Trailrider,
Bvt. Lt. Col. Commanding,
Southern District
Dept. of the Platte, GAF

Offline Curtis264

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Re: 1860 Henry Iron frame
« Reply #23 on: May 31, 2020, 07:37:58 PM »
Actually they are Redding 45LC dies that I use, the seater also does roll crimp but did not think it was neccessary with taper crimp, but will put a roll crimp on it in future.
No jams what so ever with the rifle empty, took it out to Range on Friday, fired about 50 rounds with not jams, I will put some more rounds through it and when it jams I will take a picture of it

Offline Curtis264

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Re: 1860 Henry Iron frame
« Reply #24 on: June 23, 2020, 05:35:45 PM »
Here is the bullet stuck in elevator


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Re: 1860 Henry Iron frame
« Reply #25 on: Today at 11:25:53 AM »

Offline Wes Tancred

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Re: 1860 Henry Iron frame
« Reply #25 on: June 24, 2020, 02:25:52 AM »
It seems to me that the rim of the cartridge may be binding in the elevator. By the time the last cartridge enters the elevator and approaches the end of its travel, the magazine spring has the least tension. Thus, if there is a burr or other machining defect or artefact in the elevator bore, the spring may not have sufficient force to always overcome the restriction.

If this is the case, it should be simple to clean up or relieve the elevator bore so that the cartridge slides freely through the entire length.


Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: 1860 Henry Iron frame
« Reply #26 on: June 24, 2020, 12:13:28 PM »

I can see the "stuck" cartridge.  It also appears the Carrier Block is not fully "UP" in the mortice.

Offline Curtis264

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Re: 1860 Henry Iron frame
« Reply #27 on: June 24, 2020, 12:19:56 PM »
This is where the elevator gets jammed, if I push down on the rim of the cartridge, then it will work, it does not happen often, I fired about 50 rounds and it happened once

Offline Abilene

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Re: 1860 Henry Iron frame
« Reply #28 on: June 24, 2020, 01:16:20 PM »
Does the carrier have much fore and aft play in the frame mortice?  Perhaps it is getting cocked at a very slight angle that jams it.  If so, then pushing up on the front of the carrier from underneath might also free it up when it sticks.

Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: 1860 Henry Iron frame
« Reply #29 on: June 24, 2020, 07:36:53 PM »

There appears to be a rough spot or Burr on or between the bottom of the barrel and bore for the follower.  It also appears the bullet you're using is loaded slightly "long."  Also, it looks like the round is sticking between the Back of the chamber and the Cartridge Guide Tab at the bottom of the bolt.

The bullet is a Truncated Cone and is plated.  Let's call it a Full Metal Jacket.  It IS the wrong bullet for your application.  I would suggest you try a 200 or 250Gr RNFP, seated to and crimped into the crimp groove and see what happens.  I do not believe your Breach Block assembly is retracting sufficiently into the frame to completely clear the rising round, which is rubbing on the front of the Mortice.

Regardless of what your calipers say regards COAL, your rounds just aren't right for your particular rifle.  Your gonna have to find what it likes and load accordingly.

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Re: 1860 Henry Iron frame
« Reply #30 on: Today at 11:25:53 AM »

Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: 1860 Henry Iron frame
« Reply #30 on: June 25, 2020, 02:33:15 PM »

Whilst wandering around my shop like a lost puppy, I harkens back to your photographs.  If the lever is all the way down and forward in the photo's, you timing is also a smidge "off."  With correct timing, the Breach Block retracts fully into the frame as the cartridge passes on the way up. 

Your Breach Bock does not appear to be doing that.  With everything else, the timing needs adjusted.  You may also want to consider adding "Positive Slam Down" to your rifle.  You're getting some blow-by (normal in a Uberti .45) and the Carrier Block may well get sticky and ... stick.

Offline Curtis264

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Re: 1860 Henry Iron frame
« Reply #31 on: June 25, 2020, 04:51:28 PM »
No lever is not at the furthest point forward, when the elevator gets stuck it will not go further until you push down of the rim of the cartridge, the bullets are list as RNFP made specially for 45 LC. I put a PSD on my 66, but this iron frame already had that built in from Factory, if you hold the lever against the stock and push up on the elevator it does not move

https://www.campro.ca/en/products/bullets/45/45-colt-250-rnfp-fcp

 

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