Author Topic: H&R Officers Model Trapdoor  (Read 660 times)

Offline cpt dan blodgett

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H&R Officers Model Trapdoor
« on: June 06, 2020, 07:17:35 pm »
Went to visit a buddy and this H&R Officers Model Trapdoor  45/70 followed me home.  Think this will be my smokeless gun and will save the Original 88 for BP.  Being a wimp will prolly load both with 405 grainers at the 55 grain load velocities.  Will see if I can get the 88 to group well enough to shoot at 300 with the 405 grainers. Sadly between son's surgery and doctor Appts the same time as the Craig Muster will not make either Grand or Platte Musters this year.  Hope things work better Next Year.
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Offline Wooly Dan

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Re: H&R Officers Model Trapdoor
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2020, 10:20:25 am »
Love my H&R Officers model.  I shoot 300g MO bullet co with 13.3 Trailboss. Shoots great out to 300 yards. Have fun.

Offline cpt dan blodgett

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Re: H&R Officers Model Trapdoor
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2020, 01:36:09 pm »
Thx for the info.  Sadly Trail boss is not in inventory in my Powder Locker.  Will most likely use 5744 to start behind the 405 grainers I can cast.  Also have many 415 grain Desparado Bullet Company bullets in the Garage that old #4 says work well BP or Smokeless. I may even try the 500 3R lee bullet and see if the 1/20 twist is fast enough to stabilize this bullet.  Think the original 88 TD is 1 in 22 but may be totally smoking dope on that.  Pretty sure someone out there can set me straight on that and welcome the real info.
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Offline Dave T

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Re: H&R Officers Model Trapdoor
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2020, 03:13:52 pm »
No offense intended but talking about Trapdoors and smokeless powder just seems wrong some how! (smile)

Dave

Offline smoke

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Re: H&R Officers Model Trapdoor
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2020, 05:44:31 pm »
I love my H&R officers model.  I will post some pics if I have any on this puter.
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Re: H&R Officers Model Trapdoor
« Reply #5 on: Today at 03:25:17 pm »

Offline Wooly Dan

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Re: H&R Officers Model Trapdoor
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2020, 06:57:11 am »
I forgot to say this is a easy shoot that you can stand to puts lot of rounds though the gun.  I will use it at grand Muster and it just won’t beat me up. I have used black power in an original carbine at a GAF match and my  shoulder was bruised for a month, and I was young then.  I agree Dave just can’t do it, so I go with this and do what I can do.

Offline Niederlander

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Re: H&R Officers Model Trapdoor
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2020, 08:06:18 am »
I've had the same experience in a .50-70 Sharps carbine.  Black powder loads beat you up.  Trail Boss you can shoot all day.
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Offline ira scott

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Re: H&R Officers Model Trapdoor
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2020, 08:48:44 am »
I thought pain was weakness leaving the body?

Mike
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Offline cpt dan blodgett

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Re: H&R Officers Model Trapdoor
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2020, 10:04:15 am »
No offense intended but talking about Trapdoors and smokeless powder just seems wrong some how! (smile)

Dave
quite sure 400 years a go I would be burned at the stake for heresy but my intention is to shoot Holy Black from the original 88 TD and load 45 colt with bp when shooting the original.  I have come to believe there is a lot of Voodoo associated with shooting holy black and best results can best be obtained if one loads on the second tuesday following a full moon in months not containing an "R" or is it the 3rd thursday after a new moon in months containing an "R"?  In either case one must hold one's mouth right while dropping the powder or all bets are off.

This is not to say shooting black is not historically correct and even fun in a masochistic sort of way.  Having said that it is expensive, messy and in my experience difficult to obtain consistent results.  One needs to find not only the right bullet but the right alloy for the bullet so that the bullet is soft enough that it upsets to engage rifling and prevent blow by while simultaneously being hard enough not to strip out of the rifling.  Don't even get me started on the magic of BP lube, books are written on that subject.  We can then talk about the powder itself some swear Only Swiss others Olde Eynsford some like GOEX or Schuetzen.  Then is it 1f 1.5 F or even 2 or 3F.  If you can get past that is it 1/16, 1/8 .300 inch compression or some metric value greater than one of those but less than the next.  We then move on to bullet seating depth that works best for the particular chamber which necessitates either varying the charge or the compression or both to have the bullet when seated correctly to be in contact with the powder.  Once that is all worked out we move on to neck tension and crimp.  All this makes my head hurt and I confess have yet to find loads that shoot consistently out of any of my rifles an Armi Sports Sharps, Navy Arms Rolling Block or the 1888 Trapdoor all in 45/70.  This is not to say that I will not continue on the quest for the holy grail of a 1/4 min group at some unbelievable range, but is to say it is much easier to find a decent smokeless load.  Given they are not making original trapdoor springfields anymore I will not risk damaging the one I have with smokeless loads but it is open season for the other rifles.  I will say the 65 grains of 2F Olde Eynsford under the 500 3R Lee bullet is not fun to shoot.  OMG I forgot to talk about wads - number, material and size.

The modern gun if one can call a 1970s ish trapdoor repro a modern gun will be shot much more economically with either 5744 or Varget using about half the powder and accompanied by 5 grainish load of AA2 in the pistol.  Something about 1200 rounds per pound vs 250 appeals to me.  It may be parsimony.  Any money saved will be wisely or not so wisely invested in other toys.  For some reason I feel a need to acquire an 1886 japaninchester or possibly a pair of 5.5 inch 44-40s to round out my collection.
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Offline Niederlander

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Re: H&R Officers Model Trapdoor
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2020, 10:41:38 am »
I thought pain was weakness leaving the body?

Mike
Now it just stays like an unwanted brother in law.......
"There go those Nebraskans, and all hell couldn't stop them!"

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Re: H&R Officers Model Trapdoor
« Reply #10 on: Today at 03:25:17 pm »

Offline ira scott

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Re: H&R Officers Model Trapdoor
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2020, 12:51:52 pm »
Now it just stays like an unwanted brother in law.......
   Thank you sir!  That's the first good laugh I had all day.

Mike
It is far better to remain silent, and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt!

Offline Bat 2919

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Re: H&R Officers Model Trapdoor
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2020, 02:18:18 pm »
Now it just stays like an unwanted brother in law.......

 Now that's priceless!!!! :(  I'll tell you the story in person, I don't think I should post it here :-X  Statutes of limitations differ from state to state  ;)
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Offline Dusty Tagalon

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Re: H&R Officers Model Trapdoor
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2020, 02:27:39 pm »
Tried my original Remington Carbine in 50/70 was a bad experience, couldn’t hit the broad side of the barn. If I attend this year’s muster, (waiting for another event to cancel) I will be shooting an 1879 Carbine.
Dusty

Offline wildman1

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Re: H&R Officers Model Trapdoor
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2020, 01:43:45 pm »
Capt Dan I think you are real close on that twist rate. I believe it is 21 1/2.
wM1
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Offline St. George

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Re: H&R Officers Model Trapdoor
« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2020, 02:17:21 pm »
You 'may' want to get an original 'Rifle' rear sight and screws and get them blued - S&S and Dixie used to have them - and install it - it 'will' make a difference.

Also - a pistol grip is a nice addition, and correct for an original configuration - Pedersoli's matches the checkering and wood nicely, but it's not cheap.

I use Trail Boss, and I also use commercial loads - I don't have the appreciation for BP that some espouse.

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Offline Drydock

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Re: H&R Officers Model Trapdoor
« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2020, 05:09:19 pm »
Original Trapdoors were 1/22.  The H&R is 1/18. 
Civilize them with a Krag . . .

Offline Pitspitr

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Re: H&R Officers Model Trapdoor
« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2020, 07:16:55 am »
No offense intended but talking about Trapdoors and smokeless powder just seems wrong some how! (smile)
I look at powders like tools. You use different tools for different jobs. You don't use a hammer to cut a board and you don't use FFg Goex in your AR. ::)(I suppose you could but neither seem like a good idea if you have any alternative)

I've never used BP in my H&R because of the kind of rifling it has. My Pedersoli and my originals all get Black
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Offline cpt dan blodgett

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Re: H&R Officers Model Trapdoor
« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2020, 02:01:50 pm »
Thanks for the Info on the 1/18 twist, that may well stabilize the rather longish 500 3R Lee. I have self cast 405 Lee Hollow Base, 415 Blue lubed Desparado, and the 500 3R that I can test tumbled with Alox or Powder coated to test.
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