Author Topic: Need Gunsmith Help With My Uberti .45  (Read 538 times)

Offline shotgun12

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Need Gunsmith Help With My Uberti .45
« on: May 28, 2020, 09:00:15 pm »
Howdy all,
I originally posted this in the Uberti forum, but I think maybe it should be over here instead.
I’m new to the site, (not to firearms), and I’m needing to find some help.
I bought my model “P” 1873 a year ago and regardless of powders, bullets, factory or reloads, this pistol just cannot shoot a group that is anywhere near good. 5” at 20yds is about average (off the bench). I first contacted Cimarron, and was told that they do not guarantee any degree of accuracy. 
‘Preciate any help.

Offline Professor Marvel

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Re: Need a ‘smith for My Uberti .45
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2020, 01:08:04 am »
Greetings My Good Shotgun

You may want to post your "general area" as it will help when folks start responding...

But until then, I can assure you your Model P, since it is from Italy, will most likely benefit from some basic tweaking.
1) does the barrel crown look ok under a strong magnifier?
2) it "might" benefit from having the forcing cone polished or recut.
3) It could probably benefit from having the cylinder mouths reamed to a correct size consistant with the bore size.
         BTW even Rugers and Real Colts often need their cylinder mouths reamed!

If you could slug the barrel, and each cylinder that will reveal a lot!

hopefully the other citizend will show up shortly with more advice.

yhs
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Offline Dave T

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Re: Need a ‘smith for My Uberti .45
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2020, 09:24:54 am »
First consider, the original model P Colt was a service pistol (think stock 1911A1) so the guy at Cimarron kind of had a point. Further consider, the vast majority of their customers are CAS shooters who only have to hit fairly large targets at close range and the Cimarron guy probably gets a pass.

To get to your problem, the relation between the chamber mouth diameter and the groove diameter of the barrel is key to accurate cast bullet shooting. It is generally held that 1-2 thousands over groove diameter is the sweet spot for accuracy. If your chamber mouths are too small your bullets get sized down and they won't shoot well at all.The softness of the alloy you bullets are cast with also has a baring on this but the 1-2 thou over rule is still a good place to start.

To proceed further you need some measurements: of the chamber mouths and of the barrel. Once you know that, and have it regulated if necessary, you can choose the proper diameter bullet to give you the best accuracy from your revolver.

Dave

Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: Need a ‘smith for My Uberti .45
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2020, 10:35:29 am »

 :)  Shotgun12   :)

So I get to wade in.  As a retired gunsmith, let me assure you Uberti does NOT make target pistols.  The Single Action Colt Pattern guns were not originally designed as target guns (Kudos to Dave T).

Since I don't actually know how "good" or "bad" you are with a handgun, we can only take WAG (Military acronym for Wild Ass Guess) at what your problem may or may not be.  You already have several real good suggestions.  Place to start is slugging your barrel to see where you should start.  Shooting the wrong size bullets will make a HUGE difference.  Then look to your forcing cone, then look to the Barrel/Cylinder gap.  Match the cylinder throats to the bore diameter.  Run a range rod down the bore to insure the cylinder chambers line up with the bore when locked in battery.  Then look at the Trigger Pull and the Hammer Fall.  OEM heavy springs can have a measurable effect.

Going in pursuit of Bullseye Target accuracy with a Colt pattern SA could easily cost you more than the original purchase price of the gun.  The folks at Cimarron are not wrong, are not incorrect and not insulting when they tell you they don't have target guns.  They don't.  Most folks in the CAS game are quite happy with minute of Pie Plate at 15 - 20 yards.  We only have to hit a 14 by 14 target at 7 yards most of the time.  I do have to return to my early comment.  We don't know how "good" or "bad" you are with a hand gun.  After the mechanics are correct, the rest is on you.

Offline shotgun12

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Re: Need a ‘smith for My Uberti .45
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2020, 03:56:01 pm »
Thanks for the rapid responses.
As much as I’ll say I don’t like Rugers, I have to say that I owned two of ‘em a while back .... a .357, and .44,
I shot the blackhawk with light loads and swaged lead bullets (cheap) and got to where there were very few things I couldn’t hit. Sometimes I even impressed myself. I do realize that I’m a bit older now, but when I grab one of my other pistols, or whatever .... no problems.
You might ask why not a Ruger?  I swore I’d never buy a revolver with one of those funky safeties, adjustable sights or anything else that was too far off from an original. 
Anyway, once I realized this Uberti had a problem, I slugged the bore and came up with this; bullets are .452 - .453, throats are a consistent .001 - .002 over bullet dia., bore measured; .444 - .451. C-B gap is ~.005 -.006.
I polished the tool marks out of the cone, and there’s never been any excessive leading and no lead spitting, no keyholing, and lockup is nice and tight. 
Kind of hard to see the crown very well, but it isn’t exactly smooth, radial tool marks .... worn tool probably, but no obvious dings that I can see. 
I’ve been buying my cast SWC “Keith” bullets from Missouri bullets in 255g.  I’ve experimented with various powders and loads with no major changes, though the HS-6 did seem to help slightly. I use very little if any crimp.
I did try some factory rounds .... 200g cowboy loads, but those were all over the place. That’s when I began with 255g bullets, which brought the groups (patterns) up a bit, but not tighter. 
I barely touched the trigger, as it was pretty smooth as it was.
I realize Uberti doesn’t spend any extra time on these, but it’s just a machine, or mechanism and as such should be fixable like any other. I know that it’s a matter of how much effort and $ it would take.  If I was to just give up on this one, and buy something else, I could just end up with another pistol that needs work too.

I have looked into trying to find oversize bullets, but they’re more expensive and I’d have to buy thousands just to place an order, unless someone knows of another source.  So, if possible I’d prefer to see what it might take to get this pistol running right and be done with it, instead of depending on buying the oversized bullets from now on.  I did ask Missouri about getting a few oversized bullets to try out, but they said they’re really backlogged right now, but that way I could learn if that’s where the problem is, before doing anything drastic, and even more expensive.


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Re: Need Gunsmith Help With My Uberti .45
« Reply #5 on: Today at 12:56:43 am »

Offline Dave T

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Re: Need a ‘smith for My Uberti .45
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2020, 06:04:11 pm »
Shotgun,

You might give these folks a look. Last time I bought from them I didn't have to buy 1000, just a hundred to try out. And they delivered in a timely fashion. They offer 45 Colt bullets in .452" and .454", and you can get them quench hardened or as cast.

Just a suggestion,
Dave

Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: Need a ‘smith for My Uberti .45
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2020, 09:29:02 pm »

Shotgun,

Dave T provides a very good suggestion.  Now, let me explain this.  You absolutely MUST load for each individual gun.  PERIOD.  Your bore dimensions seem .... Odd.  I don't know if you're telling us the diameter of the Lands, or the Grooves or What??  After slugging the bore, you need to measure the high spots so you get the actual bore diameter.  Cylinder throats should be .001 - .002 over bore diameter.  You can find bullets in any diameter you want and you don't have to order thousands (Dave T. explained.  There are lots of suppliers of bullets out there.  Most make their bullets available in lots of 100, 250, 500, 1000 on up.

I personally know guys and gals who have spent months with test loads trying to find that "Sweet Spot."  Your gun may well not like 255Gr Keith type Semi-Wadcutters.  You may well have to experiment with a bunch of different bullets and a bunch of different powder combinations to find exactly what the gun will shoot.  You may well spend a lot of money chasing smoke.  I wish you luck, but please understand, there is no magic formula or single magic adjustment that will solve your dilemma.  I do honestly wish you luck.

Offline shotgun12

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Re: Need a ‘smith for My Uberti .45
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2020, 01:05:59 am »
Shotgun,

You might give these folks a look. Last time I bought from them I didn't have to buy 1000, just a hundred to try out. And they delivered in a timely fashion. They offer 45 Colt bullets in .452" and .454", and you can get them quench hardened or as cast.

Just a suggestion,
Dave
What company?

Offline willy

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Re: Need Gunsmith Help With My Uberti .45
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2020, 12:04:26 am »
For a quick check as to your chamber throats being to tight,,All is needed is to push a lead bullet through the bore..Then check if the slug falls through the cylinder throats..If the slug is to big to fall through the throats after being pushed through the barrel,,Then your bore is bigger than your throats,,Then you need to open up the throats,, 

Offline Dave T

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Re: Need a ‘smith for My Uberti .45
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2020, 12:21:06 pm »
What company?

Woops! Intended to include the web site. My bad, as they young folks say.

It's:  https://www.montanabulletworks.com/

Dave

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Re: Need Gunsmith Help With My Uberti .45
« Reply #10 on: Today at 12:56:43 am »

Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: Need Gunsmith Help With My Uberti .45
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2020, 03:54:36 pm »

I would also suggest BADMAN Bullets in Oregon.  Good Prices, good selection and a really good guy to do business with.

 

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