Author Topic: Bore cleaning Boredom .  (Read 559 times)

Offline dusty texian

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Bore cleaning Boredom .
« on: March 18, 2020, 10:55:56 am »
Been kinda stuck in as of late . So decided to dig into the back of the safe and tackle a ugly bore 1873 Winchester that needed a good scrubbing . Swab with Gum Turpentine then brush stroke back and forth  with bronze brush , wipe with clean flannel patch , and repeat over and over for hr.s . Three days in a row . Probably have six or seven hr's scrubbing this old 38-40 barrel .  I can now see solid rifling throughout , look's much better than before . Next will  do a bit of shooting to see if the accuracy has improved . It sure looks better , hoping it shoots better . It's a cool little special order rifle . ,,DT

Offline Abilene

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Re: Bore cleaning Boredom .
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2020, 11:11:06 am »
Yeah, it would be kind of discouraging to put in all that work and have it not shoot better! 

Looks like whoever ordered that one wanted the gun to be as light as possible and still have a long barrel for accuracy.

Offline dusty texian

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Re: Bore cleaning Boredom .
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2020, 12:14:31 pm »
Yeah, it would be kind of discouraging to put in all that work and have it not shoot better! 

Looks like whoever ordered that one wanted the gun to be as light as possible and still have a long barrel for accuracy.
              It is a very light rifle Abilene , it came out of Maine . My guess is that it was used as a hunting tool . Has very pretty Burl Walnut wood and was Color Cased . Bet it was a looker in its day .,,,DT

Offline cactus joe

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Re: Bore cleaning Boredom .
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2020, 05:00:22 pm »
I have a 1892 that i have to work on to get the barrel back looking halfway decent. i almost hate to shoot it again and then mess it back up.

Offline dusty texian

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Re: Bore cleaning Boredom .
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2020, 07:15:52 am »
I have a 1892 that i have to work on to get the barrel back looking halfway decent. i almost hate to shoot it again and then mess it back up.
                                                         You hit the nail on the head . The bore is now clean down to the metal revealing solid rifling with shine , but not what i would call smooth finish ( very fine pitting ) . On other rifles in the past to smooth out the bore , I have shot copper jacketed bullets through a few hundred and noticed the bore smooth out fairly nice ,  If I had some copper jacketed .401 - .403 bullets that's what I would try  .  I have also used valve grinding  compound with good success . On the hunt for some suitable jacketed bullets now . ,,,DT

Offline King Medallion

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Re: Bore cleaning Boredom .
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2020, 08:17:17 am »
Would fire-lapping help?

Offline dusty texian

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Re: Bore cleaning Boredom .
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2020, 09:23:20 am »
Would fire-lapping help?
                                                    King I may give that a try . I can lube some cast bullets and then roll them between two pieces of glass with fine valve grinding compound on the glass .The bullets will impregnate with the compound . Should slick it up some and give my arms a break from doing it with a lapping rod .  ,,DT

Offline wildman1

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Re: Bore cleaning Boredom .
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2020, 01:21:06 pm »
I would stick with the firelapping, 400, 600, 800 and 1200 grit. Valve grinding compound is 80 grit if I remember correctly, a little coarse for a quality bore shining operation.
wM1
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Offline dusty texian

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Re: Bore cleaning Boredom .
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2020, 03:49:34 pm »
I would stick with the firelapping, 400, 600, 800 and 1200 grit. Valve grinding compound is 80 grit if I remember correctly, a little coarse for a quality bore shining operation.
wM1
                             Valve grinding compound can be had in 80 grit , but that's not the only grit that it is made in  . It can be had in 54 grit to 1200 grit  from Clover   .  On this application  the condition of this surface would dictate using 320 grit to begin with and finer grit being necessary to achieve the desired result . If I do get the bore to respond to the 600 - 800 grit range I will probably be seeing a surface polished finer than it was to begin with .,,,DT

Offline sail32

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Re: Bore cleaning Boredom .
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2020, 04:12:45 pm »
Toothpaste is about equivalent to 600-grit sandpaper, if that helps.

Offline dusty texian

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Re: Bore cleaning Boredom .
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2020, 04:23:35 pm »
Toothpaste is about equivalent to 600-grit sandpaper, if that helps.
     Yes Sir , was first taught that by my late Father . I watched him lap his old Two groove 06 with Toothpaste and then see him use that old Springfield to shoot one hole groups with ease . ,,,DT

Offline wildman1

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Re: Bore cleaning Boredom .
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2020, 12:07:33 pm »
                             Valve grinding compound can be had in 80 grit , but that's not the only grit that it is made in  . It can be had in 54 grit to 1200 grit  from Clover   .  On this application  the condition of this surface would dictate using 320 grit to begin with and finer grit being necessary to achieve the desired result . If I do get the bore to respond to the 600 - 800 grit range I will probably be seeing a surface polished finer than it was to begin with .,,,DT
You are correct on having the surface finer than original. From my understanding on valve grinding compound it does not have the quality control that you will get with commercial fire lapping kits. I used to firelap my muzzle loaders when they were new and greatly improved their initial performance.
wM1
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Offline dusty texian

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Re: Bore cleaning Boredom .
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2020, 04:04:30 am »
Wildman 1 Thank you for sharing your experience with fire lapping . What I am trying to achieve on this old barrel is to smooth out the bore as best as I can , removing the least amount of metal . The goal is to smooth it out enough to stop it from grabbing lead/foul for a easier clean-up  . Don't think that it will ever be a tack driver but sometimes an old rough barrel will shoot surprisingly well .  Having this stay at home time on my hands I think today I'll hand lap the bore in the shop , going slow it should come out alright  .  Gonna look like Popeye before this is over . LOL. ,,,DT

Offline wildman1

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Re: Bore cleaning Boredom .
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2020, 10:18:47 am »
The last one I firelapped was a Winchester 25/35 that the bore was so bad on that I couldn't keep a 5" group at 50 yds. When I finished firelapping it I had 5 rnds left and shoot a 2 1/4" group at 200 yds. The bore still does not look all that good but it shoots fine.
wM1
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Offline dusty texian

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Re: Bore cleaning Boredom .
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2020, 05:13:30 pm »
The last one I firelapped was a Winchester 25/35 that the bore was so bad on that I couldn't keep a 5" group at 50 yds. When I finished firelapping it I had 5 rnds left and shoot a 2 1/4" group at 200 yds. The bore still does not look all that good but it shoots fine.
wM1
                                            With results like that , I can see why you recommend Fire Lapping . Do you remember how many shot's with the compound that you fired in total lapping the 25-35  ? I hand lapped the bore today only spent a couple hr's on it . 320 grit to start . Next I may try 400 grit . ,,,DT

Offline wildman1

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Re: Bore cleaning Boredom .
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2020, 09:37:02 pm »
Yes, I shot 5 shots with each of the four grits 400, 600, 800 and 1200. I started by rolling each of the bullets in grit between steel plates then loading them in brass. After firing each shot the barrel was cleaned thoroughly then fire the next shot, etc. I used about 1/2 of a full load for each shot during the firelapping. All shots including the initial firing with the terrible group at 50 yds were made with a tang mounted peep site.
wM1
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Offline dusty texian

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Re: Bore cleaning Boredom .
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2020, 07:56:28 am »
I would have guessed that it would have taken more shots . I may give this a try . I gave the bore a good swabbing of heavy oil and put back into the safe , for now . Many others to clean while passing the time .,,,DT

Offline wildman1

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Re: Bore cleaning Boredom .
« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2020, 05:23:00 pm »
I got a firelapping kit several years ago from NICO Industies in CA  so far it has done a lot of rifles. Those were the instructions that came with the kit.
wM1
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Offline greyhawk

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Re: Bore cleaning Boredom .
« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2020, 10:35:07 pm »
Wildman 1 Thank you for sharing your experience with fire lapping . What I am trying to achieve on this old barrel is to smooth out the bore as best as I can , removing the least amount of metal . The goal is to smooth it out enough to stop it from grabbing lead/foul for a easier clean-up  . Don't think that it will ever be a tack driver but sometimes an old rough barrel will shoot surprisingly well .  Having this stay at home time on my hands I think today I'll hand lap the bore in the shop , going slow it should come out alright  .  Gonna look like Popeye before this is over . LOL. ,,,DT

Dusty
I have retrieved a few using fine steel wool wrapped tight around a bronze brush (an old used up one) ya wrap that steel wool as tight as can be stuffed in the bore then dowse it in Brasso - half an hour of that with appropriate additions of steel wool to keep it tight - then cleaned out and followed up with jewellers rouge on a flannel patch - again tight to the bore - proly lots of better ways - I just used what was around the place - brasso needs a real good scrub out after with gasoline or something to get the ammonia out. 
After rescuing a ML and an old 38/40 barrel this way I tried it on a shot out 22/250 - my model 70 has over four thousand down it and was still useful for body shots but best group was out about 3 inches - used to be able to put three in my thumbnail - well after a good scrub and polish that thing came back almost to good as new - dont know how long for ? but I dont shoot it much anymore - might save me the expense of a re barrel - with a good light you could see the throat erosion 2 to 3 inches into the rifling.
I'm working on the popeye/gorilla muscles driving steel fence posts - backs of the arms are a bit achey ................................................................
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Offline Cliff Fendley

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Re: Bore cleaning Boredom .
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2020, 11:04:53 am »
Nice rifle Dusty. I have a third model custom order in the same setup with half mag and half round but mine is 44wcf. Mine has a pretty decent bore. Can't remember where the letter said it shipped.

I'm going to try the valve grinding compound itea on a couple old rough bore guns I have that I ran out of elbow grease on. The rifling is there but bores are dark and accuracy isnt that great.
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Offline dusty texian

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Re: Bore cleaning Boredom .
« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2020, 05:40:47 am »
Thank's to all for commenting .  Cliff I remember you saying that you had a 73 like this one , they handle great don't they .  On a dark bore I have found this to work better than anything else I have tried . Swab the bore with WD40 yep WD40 use old wore out bore brush that is a couple calibers smaller than the bore you are working on , then wrap it with pieces of  copper scrubber pad until it is big enough that it has to be squeezed into the bore (tight) . Work that back and forth until it gets easier , pull out wipe clean add more copper scrubbing pad to tighten up the fit again and do it over again until it is clean and shiny . I have used the fine steel wool and it is OK , the copper scrubber strings wrapped around the bore brush is by far the best way to clean old lead and Bp. carbon fouling . Hope everyone is doing good in these Crazy Times .  ,,DT

Offline Cliff Fendley

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Re: Bore cleaning Boredom .
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2020, 10:06:15 pm »
Thank's to all for commenting .  Cliff I remember you saying that you had a 73 like this one , they handle great don't they .  On a dark bore I have found this to work better than anything else I have tried . Swab the bore with WD40 yep WD40 use old wore out bore brush that is a couple calibers smaller than the bore you are working on , then wrap it with pieces of  copper scrubber pad until it is big enough that it has to be squeezed into the bore (tight) . Work that back and forth until it gets easier , pull out wipe clean add more copper scrubbing pad to tighten up the fit again and do it over again until it is clean and shiny . I have used the fine steel wool and it is OK , the copper scrubber strings wrapped around the bore brush is by far the best way to clean old lead and Bp. carbon fouling . Hope everyone is doing good in these Crazy Times .  ,,DT

Dusty, yes they handle nice. 24 inch barrel with the weighted feel more like a carbine. I've done the copper scrubbing pad method with pretty good success. I've just got a couple old ones that still are dark. Might not be any hope for them.
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Offline wildman1

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Re: Bore cleaning Boredom .
« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2020, 08:49:10 am »
The better materials you use the better your end result will be.
wM1
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Offline dusty texian

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Re: Bore cleaning Boredom .
« Reply #23 on: March 30, 2020, 07:24:33 am »
The better materials you use the better your end result will be.
wM1
                                                  I agree with that . ,,,DT

 

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